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Author Topic: Fasting in Orthodoxy...  (Read 5570 times) Average Rating: 0
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chrisb
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« on: February 24, 2006, 06:14:37 PM »

Grace and Peace be with you all,

First let me say I am Irish Catholic but I have largely been a Contemplative and find Patristic Theology very appealing.

Long story short I'm been invited by a local Orthodox Parish Priest (OCA) to participate with him and his community during Great Lent.

I would like to open up a topic on Fasting and how American Orthodox prepare and handle it through the Lenton Season?

Thank you and God Bless.
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« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2006, 11:03:35 PM »

Welcome Chris to the forum. Otside of Lent, Wednesday and Friday are fast days (fish allowed, no meat products or dairy).

during Lent, according to each person's own ability and with the blessing and guidance of your spiritual father (priest,priestmonk) /mother (abbess), the fast is a strict fast for 50 days. fish is not allowed, and dairy products are not either.

Children, elders, the ill who cannot keep the full fast for physical reasons are allowed lee-way in this aspect. children are also allowed at times to give up things other than foods such as videogames, candy, chocolate, less television etc.

Also, many times we forget part of our Lenten confession is compassion and service to the poor, the suffering (ie. the Beatitudes). Often, a parish will take a youth group or any group of parishioners to a mission downtown and offer their services there, or they can go on a trip to help build a house, repair a church building, cleaning, visiting old-homes etc.

There are also couple liturgical services peculiar to Eastern Orthodox Christians.

The Sunday before the First sunday of Lent, an evening service "The Vespers of Forgiveness" is done where a regular vespers occurs ,and at the end, everyone lines up in front of each other and ask each other for forgiveness for the wrong they have done to each other- it is a very moving service.

Each Sunday of Lent has a theme: Sunday of Orthodoxy---> St. Mary of Egypt sunday dedicated to the various themes of repentance.

On Wednesdays of Lent, an evening liturgy called the "Prescantified Liturgy" is done. It is half a Vespers service, half a Liturgy where communion- sanctified from a previous liturgy, is given to the people.

On Fridays of Lent, an Akathist service is prayed. Akathist means "not sitting" because long ago, people did not sit during this service. It's origin lies in history when Constantinople was being held sieged by Turks (the first time) and the people sung this poetic service in front of the icon of the Virgin Mary, called Panagia (All Holy) or Theotokos (Mother of God). Thus through the prayers of the Mother of God Mary, the City was saved from the Turks.

The service is very poetic, and often alludes to biblical prototypes of the Virgin Mary, of Christ, of salvation etc. The service rotates between the choir/chanters/the people, and the priest. There is an icon of the Theotokos sitting on an elaborate chair, with Christ sitting on her lap- rightly called "The akathist icon".

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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2006, 11:13:25 PM »

â€Â  Irini nem ehmot,

Regarding the Coptic Church, I had posted this in another forum (note: There may be some errors, so please, any fellow Copts, correct me if I'm wrong):

Quote
For the most part, when one fasts, they become vegan. Throughout the year, Copts fast on wednesdays and fridays in this manner although I'm not sure if it's with strict abstinence or not (I know I don't). Most fasts, with the exceptions of Jonah's fast, Great Lent, and the annual wednesdays and fridays, permit the eating of fish. Also, strict abstinence (i.e. fasting until 6pm (if you can't then 3pm is fine)) is performed during Jonah's fast and Great Lent. Also (if i recall), there is strict abstinence on the paramoune (i.e. the day before) a feast. Those more learned than I, please correct me if i'm wrong.

Please pray for me.
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2006, 12:30:58 AM »

Grace and Peace be with you both,

Thank you both for your posts.

How do Orthodox observe a 'strict fast' and how does individuals in America handle this?

Peace and God Bless.
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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2006, 01:25:01 AM »

Should be dealt with spiritual father/mother. It all depends on the person...but basically no meats at all, fish is sometimes allowed, no wine or oil sometimes, only sea fish without backbones ie clams, no dairy products .There are many staple fasting dishes. For example, many greeks and middle easterns est lentil soups, fish dishes, and I know lots of Copts eat a certain type of bean called fava beans and mush it up. You can have salads, steamed veggies, fassolatha, which is basically string peas in a red sauce base (meatless during fasting seasons).

Your best bet is to buy an orthodox calendar or go to www.goarch.org and find the calendar they've got posted. It says what can be eaten when and not. But try not to look at it too legalistically...its to help you fast from sin after all.
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chrisb
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« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2006, 01:49:56 PM »

Should be dealt with spiritual father/mother. It all depends on the person...but basically no meats at all, fish is sometimes allowed, no wine or oil sometimes, only sea fish without backbones ie clams, no dairy products .There are many staple fasting dishes. For example, many greeks and middle easterns est lentil soups, fish dishes, and I know lots of Copts eat a certain type of bean called fava beans and mush it up. You can have salads, steamed veggies, fassolatha, which is basically string peas in a red sauce base (meatless during fasting seasons).

Your best bet is to buy an orthodox calendar or go to www.goarch.org and find the calendar they've got posted. It says what can be eaten when and not. But try not to look at it too legalistically...its to help you fast from sin after all.

Grace and Peace be with you Timos,

Thank you very much for the dietary suggestions. That is what I'm looking for. Food stuffs which will keep me healthy and not break the Fast.

As I understand it the Strict Fast is 'one meal' per day, is that true? What size meal is there a time per day when the Fast is 'over'? You appear to suggest such 6pm or 3pm?

I am in dialogue with Fr. David at my local (OCA) Parish. There is also a Greek Cathedral here as well (GOA) but I have limited my interaction with Orthodoxy to Fr. David because he knows me and I respect him.  Smiley

Thank you for all the info.

Peace and God Bless.
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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2006, 02:49:43 PM »

The one meal per day is a really strict fast and is usually applied to monastics. I know of some laity who do it but given the length of days (50), the fast is strict enough IMO, and in that of many priests I know. Strict fast in itself, simply means eating no meats, dairy, no wine/oil etc except on the prescribed days when such things are permissible for feasts etc.

If you will have only one meal per day, I've read that it should be eaten after 3pm...thats just what I've read though and this was perhaps though not certain, advice to monastics during their lenten fast.

Also, whether or not it is fasting season, light meals are to be eaten on Saturday evening in anticipation for the reception of the Eucharist the next morning. This applies to any evening before the day you'd receive Holy Communion.

I mean no offense to you whatsoever in saying this...I see how zealous you are for faith, and to follow the church, but just don't push yourself too much to the point where you burn out. I've been Orthodox my whole life and I still cannot do the entire strict fast for the full 50 days- or else I burn out and feel it was just a waste of my time and effort. Don't let that happen. It's better usually to start by fasting perhaps only wednesday and friday, for example, and then, one full week, and then two weeks, and so forth.

God bless,
                      Tim
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« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2006, 11:20:17 PM »

The one meal per day is a really strict fast and is usually applied to monastics. I know of some laity who do it but given the length of days (50), the fast is strict enough IMO, and in that of many priests I know. Strict fast in itself, simply means eating no meats, dairy, no wine/oil etc except on the prescribed days when such things are permissible for feasts etc.

Grace and Peace Timos,

Okay so through Great Lent we can Fast from meat, dairy, wine/oils and still have 3 meals as long as we get up from the table still feeling a bit hungry, is that right and then just maintain the Strict Fast for Wednesdays and Fridays?

Quote
Also, whether or not it is fasting season, light meals are to be eaten on Saturday evening in anticipation for the reception of the Eucharist the next morning. This applies to any evening before the day you'd receive Holy Communion.

Ah, this is not unlike Catholicism so I'm familiar. Thanks.

Quote
I mean no offense to you whatsoever in saying this...I see how zealous you are for faith, and to follow the church, but just don't push yourself too much to the point where you burn out. I've been Orthodox my whole life and I still cannot do the entire strict fast for the full 50 days- or else I burn out and feel it was just a waste of my time and effort. Don't let that happen. It's better usually to start by fasting perhaps only wednesday and friday, for example, and then, one full week, and then two weeks, and so forth.

Oh absolutely no offense taken at all. I'm just trying to understand since Fasting in Catholicism has been so laxed it's hard to figure out how I can manage a 50 day Fast in Orthodoxy. Honestly I have no idea if I can get through a whole week! He He He!

We'll see.

Thanks a bunch!!! God Bless you!

Peace.
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2006, 09:00:21 PM »

My Aunty also tells me that for those who are not able to do Lent to it's fullest, it's at least important to fast the 1st week, 4th week and last week of Lent, if you can.
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2006, 12:51:15 AM »

I know of some laity who do it but given the length of days (50), the fast is strict enough IMO, and in that of many priests I know.

â€Â  Irini nem ehmot,

Is it 50 days or 55?  I was under the impression that there's a week for preparation, 40 days that parallels the 40 days that Christ Himself fasted, and then the Passion (Pascha) week.

Please pray for me.
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2006, 01:02:50 AM »

â€Â  Irini nem ehmot,

Nevermind,  I just got my answer in the shout box thingie of all places.  Cheesy

Please pray for me.
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« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2006, 11:26:26 AM »

I'm pretty sure its 50 days...igotta check though.
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2006, 11:58:14 AM »

7 days of Cheesefare week with no meat (Mon - Sun).
40 Days of Great lent (Clean Mon - Fri before Lazaros).
2 Days of Lazaros/Palm Sunday.
6 Days of Holy Week (Great Mon - Great Saturday).
= 55 Days with no meat for the EO.

Subtract 7, and you get the days without Dairy for the EO (i.e. 48).
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« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2006, 12:42:44 PM »

Strict fast refers to not eating meat, dairy, oil/wine. The one meal a day thing is not typically asked of laity, though some may take it on as an additional ascesis. So, if you're trying to do an Orthodox lenten fast, that means abstaining from meat, dairy, wine/oil from next monday until Pascha, and doesn't mean only eating one meal on Wednesday and Friday. The Calendar posted for you lays it out pretty well. People do try to eat less in general as well as limited what they eat. Monastics commonly eat only one meal a day for the first week and lent and for Holy Week as well, but this is not part of the "standard" fast for laity.
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« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2006, 02:49:07 PM »

Quote
7 days of Cheesefare week with no meat (Mon - Sun).

You eat only cheese and dairy products ? Why was this week added ?
During normal Holy lent, after the cheesy week, are you allowed to eat seafood and fish ?Do you know about falafel ?



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« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2006, 02:55:08 PM »

Strict fast refers to not eating meat, dairy, oil/wine. The one meal a day thing is not typically asked of laity, though some may take it on as an additional ascesis. So, if you're trying to do an Orthodox lenten fast, that means abstaining from meat, dairy, wine/oil from next monday until Pascha, and doesn't mean only eating one meal on Wednesday and Friday. The Calendar posted for you lays it out pretty well. People do try to eat less in general as well as limited what they eat. Monastics commonly eat only one meal a day for the first week and lent and for Holy Week as well, but this is not part of the "standard" fast for laity.

Grace and Peace choirfiend,

Ah, thank you for clearing this up for me. BTW where is this 'posted' Calendar?

Also, I thought sense Meatfare and Cheesefare we can't eat meat and dairy as of 'right now' till Holy Pasha? Is this correct?

Thank you all for everything.

Peace and God Bless.
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« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2006, 02:57:08 PM »

You eat only cheese and dairy products ? Why was this week added ?
During normal Holy lent, after the cheesy week, are you allowed to eat seafood and fish ?Do you know about falafel ?

During Cheesefare we can still eat fish and other seafood, basically we can still eat anything but meat.
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« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2006, 06:48:04 PM »

Really?  We can have fish this week?  I know crustaceans are allowed during Lent, but didn't know backboned fish were separate from meat...
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« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2006, 06:49:08 PM »

Really?  We can have fish this week?  I know crustaceans are allowed during Lent, but didn't know backboned fish were separate from meat...

Yes they are separate, which is why fish are allowed on the feast of the annunciation and palm sunday.
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« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2006, 08:17:37 PM »

Stavro,
This week is to help us adjust to the fast, to ease ourselves into it as not to shock the system.  
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« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2006, 09:47:40 PM »

Cheesefare week (this week): everything but meat.

Weekdays during lent: no meats, bloodfish, dairy, wine/oil (and I think all other fish are included with oil).
Weekends during lent: no meats, bloodfish, dairy.
Annunciation/Palm Sunday: no meats, dairy.
Lazaros Saturday: same as "weekends during lent."
Holy Week: no meats, bloodfish, dairy, wine/oil.
Holy Saturday: only weekend day of the year when the faithful are encouraged not to eat, in preparation for Holy Communion to be received that evening.
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« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2006, 10:24:08 PM »

Shellfish are allowed on all fast days, oil days  or not---fish with backbone  and blood are forbiddened From Pure Monday forward thru Holy Saturday, except on Palm Sunday and The Feast of the Annunciation (March 25). In Great Lent there is no exception for fish  with backbones as there is during the Nativity Lent.

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« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2006, 10:29:52 PM »

Right - I was referring to blood/backbone fish just as "bloodfish;" and thanks for clearing up the shellfish question.
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« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2006, 11:27:11 AM »

Cheesefare week (this week): everything but meat.

Weekdays during lent: no meats, bloodfish, dairy, wine/oil (and I think all other fish are included with oil).
Weekends during lent: no meats, bloodfish, dairy.
Annunciation/Palm Sunday: no meats, dairy.
Lazaros Saturday: same as "weekends during lent."
Holy Week: no meats, bloodfish, dairy, wine/oil.
Holy Saturday: only weekend day of the year when the faithful are encouraged not to eat, in preparation for Holy Communion to be received that evening.

God's Grace and Peace keep you,

Am I correct in understanding that we are allowed to have dairy 'this week'?

Thank you for the info.

Peace, Love and Blessings.
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« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2006, 11:43:18 AM »

yes, this week we're allowed to eat everything but meat (EO only, methinks).  So enjoy!
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« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2006, 01:38:23 PM »

So here's what may be an odd question.  I read a document a few years ago, that I think came out of ROCOR, but may have been OCA, that indicated that married couples also abstain during Great Lent.  Is that true, and is that the same throughout the jurisdictions?
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« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2006, 01:40:55 PM »

So here's what may be an odd question.  I read a document a few years ago, that I think came out of ROCOR, but may have been OCA, that indicated that married couples also abstain during Great Lent.  Is that true, and is that the same throughout the jurisdictions?  

One of the spiritual directions given to married couples who can handle it is to abstain during Great Lent - to use the energy to re-focus on Christ and to deepen their love in other ways.  I have heard about this with Greeks and RUssians, but not with others (of course, it's not like I actively seek this piece of info).
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« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2006, 01:49:40 PM »

God's Grace and Peace keep you close cleveland,

You are 'the man'! Thank you so much and God Bless!

Peace, Love and Blessings.
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« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2006, 02:03:06 PM »

So its less formal, if you will, than the dietary rules?

One of the spiritual directions given to married couples who can handle it is to abstain during Great Lent - to use the energy to re-focus on Christ and to deepen their love in other ways.  I have heard about this with Greeks and RUssians, but not with others (of course, it's not like I actively seek this piece of info).
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« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2006, 03:56:22 PM »

So its less formal, if you will, than the dietary rules?

Kind of; just as fasting without proper direction can be harmful to the soul, leading to pride or contempt for the world or the Church, so too refraining from marital sexual relations can be harmful to the marriage if not done in the correct context.  This is part of why we seek as Orthodox Christians the counsel of our parish priest/spiritual father, and partially why we are called to know well the sayings of scripture... So that in our piety and our journey for truth we can make the right decisions for the right times in our life.
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« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2006, 04:08:09 PM »

For all of the years I've studied Orthodoxy (out of context mind you, as a Priest I heard recently would remark), I've never ceased to be amazed at the wisdom that is just there.  Perhaps if I really had to put a name to main difference between Orthodoxy and Rome it would be that Orthodoxy is just wiser.  I think the doctrine, etc. is the reason in many cases, but that would summarize it.

Kind of; just as fasting without proper direction can be harmful to the soul, leading to pride or contempt for the world or the Church, so too refraining from marital sexual relations can be harmful to the marriage if not done in the correct context.  This is part of why we seek as Orthodox Christians the counsel of our parish priest/spiritual father, and partially why we are called to know well the sayings of scripture... So that in our piety and our journey for truth we can make the right decisions for the right times in our life.
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« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2006, 11:00:33 PM »

Rules vary from one jurisdiction to another.  I wouldn't get too caught up in the rules outside of the guidance of a spiritual father.  You can't really fast without that.
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« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2006, 04:45:54 PM »

How do Orthodox observe a 'strict fast' and how does individuals in America handle this?

Well I'm not American, but close enough! Some advice I can give you is that if you have some imagination, try to vary what you eat as much as possible; I hear there's a lot you can do with potatoes!
During one fast, I was so lazy and unimaginative that I ate mainly pasta with tomato ketchup on, and I was so sick of pasta after that I couldn't eat it for a year! I didn't learn my lesson though, as the next fast I did I ate mainly rice with soy sause or HP! ...This year I'm thinking of alternating the two!!!  Wink

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« Reply #33 on: March 07, 2006, 02:23:21 PM »

Well I'm not American, but close enough! Some advice I can give you is that if you have some imagination, try to vary what you eat as much as possible; I hear there's a lot you can do with potatoes!
During one fast, I was so lazy and unimaginative that I ate mainly pasta with tomato ketchup on, and I was so sick of pasta after that I couldn't eat it for a year! I didn't learn my lesson though, as the next fast I did I ate mainly rice with soy sause or HP! ...This year I'm thinking of alternating the two!!!  Wink

Oh, yes, there is lots you can do with potatoes! Just take it from Sam http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/taters  Grin
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« Reply #34 on: March 07, 2006, 07:36:32 PM »

I continually hear that seafood (clams, oysters, shellfish) are so expensive.  Our family loves canned clams, today we had a nice tomato, rice , and clam dish that was full of balanced protien and was filling. It made a nice one meal for today.

The cost for the can of clams was $1.19--- awhole lot less than chicken, ground beef, lamb, or pork.
The money we saved went into out Food for Hungry People cansister  for our Archdiocese Lent Project.  We topped it off with roasted vegetables (Beets, onions, turnips, rutabagas, carrots, yams).  It was great and simple to fix, costs little and was healthy.

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« Reply #35 on: March 10, 2006, 03:28:56 AM »

On Wednesdays of Lent, an evening liturgy called the "Prescantified Liturgy" is done. It is half a Vespers service, half a Liturgy where communion- sanctified from a previous liturgy, is given to the people.

On Fridays of Lent, an Akathist service is prayed. Akathist means "not sitting" because long ago, people did not sit during this service. It's origin lies in history when Constantinople was being held sieged by Turks (the first time) and the people sung this poetic service in front of the icon of the Virgin Mary, called Panagia (All Holy) or Theotokos (Mother of God). Thus through the prayers of the Mother of God Mary, the City was saved from the Turks.

Interesting...  What regional tradition is this?  I'm only familiar with the Akathist being read on the fifth Friday of Lent.  On all Fridays the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts is celebrated, just as on Wednesdays--the Akathist of the fifth Friday is read only after the Presanctified Liturgy.

Of course, I'm a communicant and active reader (untonsured) in the OCA, so what I speak of is primarily the Russian tradition the OCA has inherited.  Even so, I have rather close ties to the Greek and Antiochian Orthodox churches in my city and know that they, too, celebrate the Presanctified Liturgy on Fridays.  I'm also very familiar with the text of the Lenten Triodion as it was translated into English by Bishop Kallistos (Ware) and Mother Mary.
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« Reply #36 on: March 10, 2006, 01:16:52 PM »

Interesting...  What regional tradition is this?  I'm only familiar with the Akathist being read on the fifth Friday of Lent.  On all Fridays the Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts is celebrated, just as on Wednesdays--the Akathist of the fifth Friday is read only after the Presanctified Liturgy.  

Well, in the Greek practice, the 5 Fridays of Great Lent each have a portion of the Akathist done; the compline with the canon, and one stanza of the salutations are done on the first 4 Fridays, and the 5th Friday is the whole Akathist proper (all 4 stanzas with the first one repeated).

As far as presanctified, in a full Greek practice (most often monastic) you will have presanctified Liturgies a few times a week, with Great Compline done as well.  But, and I don't recall this 100%, you wouldn't do Presanctified on Friday evening, because that would be a Liturgy for Saturday daytime, and Saturdays you do full Divine Liturgy... (I could be wrong here, though).
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« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2006, 03:52:14 PM »

But, and I don't recall this 100%, you wouldn't do Presanctified on Friday evening, because that would be a Liturgy for Saturday daytime, and Saturdays you do full Divine Liturgy... (I could be wrong here, though).
I am familiar with this practice at one of the Greek churches in my city.  They celebrate the Friday Presanctified Liturgy in the morning so that the service falls on Friday and not on (liturgical) Saturday.

Even during Lent, Saturdays have more of a Resurrectional character (as evidenced by the practice of singing the Dogmaticon of the week during Friday Vespers just as we do for Saturday Vespers) so that fasting is not as severe.  However, the Presanctified Liturgy is truly a Lenten, and therefore penitential service.  This penitential theme of the Presanctified Liturgy doesn't quite fit into the Resurrectional theme of Saturdays.

Apparently, many Greeks respect this contrast of themes by scheduling the Presanctified Liturgy for Friday mornings.  I think the Slavic practice, however, tends to connect the Presanctified Liturgy more closely to Friday than to Saturday, even though we celebrate the service in the evening, which is liturgically Saturday.
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« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2006, 05:31:46 PM »

Well, in my conversation with Fr. Dad, he said that Friday evenings are appropriate for Presanctified Liturgy, because it is kind of like a thing for the civil day - i.e. it is done on Friday evening after an all-day fast on Friday, so the fact that it is part of vespers and therefore technically on Saturday matters little.  A good example of this is the Typikon of the Great Church for Mar 9th - Wed night (the 8th) we had our normal Presanctified, and as part of the Vespers there were hymns for the 40 Martyrs of Sebaste (Mar 9).  Then, for Mar 9th, the Typikon had a semi-normal Matins (non-lenten for hte most part), and a presanctified in the evening, and although the Vespers would technically be for the 10th, the Typikon directed us to sing the hymns for the 40 martyrs again.  So I suppose that Presanctified isn't a cut-and-dry thing, and that's why a Friday evening presanctified is okay.
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« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2006, 10:33:37 PM »

I couldn't tell you about pre-sanctified or give you any definitions for the services.  I am an Anglo tripping over Greek in a GOA church, and a convert at that.

This fasting issue is really hard, but I imagine it would be much easier if it's just yourself you are worrying about.  I have 8 other people besides myself and I am about to run down the street in pajamas pulling my hair out.  or I would, if it wasn't falling out on it's own and my pajamas weren't so old...

I make homemade pasta sauce, and every good human should know how to make it- in my opinion.  Grin  But even that doesn't mean I wanna eat the junk twice a day every day for months.  I hate pasta and most starches.  My family has allergies to seafood, but we are in a Greek church that lives off clams and other spineless wobbly nasty snot looking spineless seafood.  (okay, so I am a big gaggin baby)  I can't have soy due to thyroid treatment, and every veggie recipe calls for tofu, or some derivitave.  But, I love potatoes.  Very good roasted in an iron skillet with lots of spices. I make a mean wonder woman stew, with or without meat ( I have a teen that isn't Orthodox and not into veganism)
You can get really creative if you have no allergies or health issues, so run with it.  When you have lots of family to worry about, then you got new issues.
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« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2006, 03:19:35 AM »

In the Canadian Greek parishes, Wednesday evening is for the Presancitifed Liturgy. The Friday's are for the Salutations of the Theotokos (Akathist).
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« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2006, 03:45:30 PM »

Wow Calligraphqueen, I have Graves Disease, and I ate *lots* of tofu last year during Lent.  It's a wonder if didn't die! Smiley  Actually, maybe my medication is ok with soy.  I'm also a Type I diabetic, so I fast, but not really.  At least that's how it seems to me.  I mean I do eat some dairy like yogurt or some cheese for the extra protein.   I know I should have discussed this with our priest, but it's like, I hate to always be whining about it.  And yes, I do know you shouldn't fast without spiritual supervision, but just "sort of " fasting IS helpful.  I know people who can follow the fast strictly get a great benefit from it.  
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« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2006, 07:32:56 PM »

Beats me!  both my docs told me to try to stay away from the stuff as best I could. It's in nearly everything on the shelf nowadays.  It *can* flake out an iffy thyroid.  Doesn't mean everyone will flake out, but my thyroid was already messed up with back to back pregnancies, and pp hypo doesn't always respond the same way as typical hypothyroidism. I know I battle to keep the thing working.   What I can't figure out is why O's seem to think they are somehow holier because they eat copious amounts of genetically altered bean curd.  I mean, it's beans, get over it.  The more you intake, the more phytoestrogens you get.  Typical American mindset is to find something that is "good for you" to whatever degree, and then find a million ways to stuff it into your body.  Life is more interesting without tofu, but fasting gets really interesting!

I don't feel so bad about the service names now, we dont' have any during the week.  We don't have a priest except on Sundays.  Baptist south has that affect
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« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2006, 08:57:48 AM »

I know how it can be to be  isolated---we live 50 miles from the nearest Orthodox Church.  You may want to get a books of Hours that is set up for Family use in the home ---there are several out there, I noted the names of several  some weekes ago on the faith Forum, I believe. We use those prayerbooks to make up for the services that we can not get to. We attempt to make most of the Holy Week Services and of course the Liturgy on Sunday.  We find the prayers before communion  in the ROCOR prayerbook make a good saturday night family practice in preparation for the Liturgy on Sunday.

In Christ,
Thomas
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