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Author Topic: ROCOR and Metropolitan Cyprian break  (Read 3121 times) Average Rating: 0
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Anastasios
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« on: February 23, 2006, 10:27:43 PM »

http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/news06/synodmeeting.htm

"On February 21, the Synod of Bishops examined the latest letter received from Metropolitan Cyprian of Oropos and Fili and the Holy Synod of Resistance, in which it was declared that their Synod fully and decisively ceased all ecclesiastical communion with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia. According to this letter, last year the name of His Eminence Metropolitan Laurus was "struck from the diptych." As a result, the Synod of Bishops decreed to recognize as sundered our communion with the Synod of the Resistance under Metropolitan Cyprian, which will be reported to the Heads of the Old-calendar Churches of Rumania and Bulgaria by a clerical emissary of the Russian Church Abroad."

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I'm sure most of you will have no clue who Metropolitan Cyprian is, nor what he stands for.  The ones who do know of him will probably be mostly against his position.  I am certainly not a supporter of Metropolitan Cyprian, but for reasons different than most everyone else.  Still, I find any breach of communion between Orthodox Churches to be sad and painful.  This news makes me sad for that reason--brothers who once shared the chalice can no longer do so.

Anastasios
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2006, 10:43:00 PM »

What were the reasons for the breaking of communion?  Huh

The Cyprianite website should be updated then, as it's "Links" page says the following:

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The segment “Links” contains the websites of the Holy Synod in Resistance and the official websites of its Sister Churches: the Russian Orthodox Church Abroad, the True (Old Calendar) Orthodox Church of Romania, and the True (Old Calendar) Orthodox Church of Bulgaria.

So, since they're no longer in communion with ROCOR, the Cyprianites are only in communion with the Old Calendarist Churches in Romania and Bulgaria?

How large are each of these three Churches/Synods?

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Arystarcus
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2006, 10:46:55 PM »

Some more questions popped into my mind -

Now that the Cyprianites have broken communion with ROCOR, what are the odds of their re-establishing communion with the GOC (Chrysostomos II)?

Also, who are the True Old Calendar Churches of Romania and Bulgaria in communion with?

Just eachother and the Cyprianites?
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2006, 11:11:04 PM »

While it is unfortunate, it was unfortunately expected (though I expected that the break would take place after the Clergy-Laity Conference). Communion was broken, even if not "officially," years ago. Letters were exchanged where Met. Cyprian invited members of ROCOR to join his synod as they left the Church Abroad over the MP/ROCOR issue. At least one (now deceased) ROCOR bishop responded with some stinging words about the ecclesiastical status of the synod of Met. Cyprian. Anyway, I don't claim to know more than others, but fwiw here are some thoughts...

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What were the reasons for the breaking of communion? ÂÂ

ROCOR's relations with the Greek Old Calendarists have never lasted long. They had relations with the GOC, Matthewites, and the synod of Met. Cyprian, and none of those relationships lasted longer than about a decade. Met. Cyprian disapproves of ROCOR's attempt to enter into communion with the MP, and that is probably the most public reason for the split. It's not that he's against discussions, he just seems to think that it is too soon (though he may think that an Ecumenical Council must first take place). However, at a deeper level, many in ROCOR thought that the communion with Met. Cyprian was a mistake, and the synod of Met. Cyprian themselves sent a letter that stated that only a few years after the 1994 agreement between ROCOR and Met. Cyprian, that certain ROCOR hierarchs started distancing themselves from Met. Cyprian's synod. This is really a break in communion that has been developing almost since they agreed to communion.

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So, since they're no longer in communion with ROCOR, the Cyprianites are only in communion with the Old Calendarist Churches in Romania and Bulgaria? How large are each of these three Churches/Synods?

ROCOR has about 330 parishes, 25 monasteries, 13 bishops, 350 priests, 100 deacons, 150 monastics, and somewhere in the neighborhood of 100,000 active laity (as opposed to reported laity, which Orthodox Churches usually inflate a crazy amount). The other Churches involved here are much, much smaller (they probably wouldn't add up to ROCOR's stats even when the three are combined... I am not saying this as something against them, as though being small makes them unimportant or unOrthodox... I'm just trying to give stats as I've understood them, though the ROCOR stats I got last year when I manually added all the stats given in the ROCOR directory up).

 
Arystarcus

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Now that the Cyprianites have broken communion with ROCOR, what are the odds of their re-establishing communion with the GOC (Chrysostomos II)?

I would guess not much more of a chance, at least for now, since the GOC still holds officially to the idea that the world Orthodoxy is in schism and deprived of sacramental grace, while Met. Cyprian holds to the belief that while world Orthodoxy is in schism, it nonetheless cannot under any circumstances be said to be deprived of grace. Also, officially anyway, the GOC seems to believe that the synod of Met. Cyprian is founded on uncanonical actions and possibly heretical theological beliefs. I think Met. Cyprian would have to move a great deal before the GOC would risk a schism by seeking communion with him.

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Also, who are the True Old Calendar Churches of Romania and Bulgaria in communion with?

They may still be in communion with ROCOR (they were around the 1994 period when ROCOR began communing with Cyprian), though I'm not sure. Otherwise, as far as I know, they would only be in communion with each other, and Met. Cyprian.

Justin
« Last Edit: February 23, 2006, 11:16:12 PM by Asteriktos » Logged
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« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2006, 04:54:20 AM »

I just don't get this (and I was once a Cyprianite). ROCOR has always been in Communion with The Patriarchates of Serbia and Jerusalem, which have always been in communion with the Patriarchate of Moscow. I just can't see the logic in breaking Communion over the raproachment.
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« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2006, 09:07:08 AM »

I just don't get this (and I was once a Cyprianite). ROCOR has always been in Communion with The Patriarchates of Serbia and Jerusalem, which have always been in communion with the Patriarchate of Moscow. I just can't see the logic in breaking Communion over the raproachment.

Before the era of internet communication, when news travelled slowly, it was easier for people to tell other people what they wanted to hear.  In the 1970's and 1980's, certain ROCOR hierarchs who were personally opposed to any communion with Serbia and Jerusalem frequently told GOC bishops that they were not in communion with them and that any concelebration with them was forbidden and if they perchance saw any ROCOR bishop doing this he was acting outside his scope.  So this could account for part of the confusion.  Asterikos once asked three different Serbian dioceses whether they were in communion with ROCOR and got different responses.  It's common for certain ROCOR priests to claim that communion has always been had with Serbia, which may technically be true, but for a long time there were no concelebrations that I know of.  ROCOR and Jerusalem have not concelebrated liturgy since the time of Met Philaret, partly due to a diplomatic misjudgment on ROCOR's part that ticked off the JP.

That being said, the Cyprianite Church certainly did know by 1992 of ROCOR's communion with Serbia and Jerusalem (Etna published an article detailing such) but later feigned surprise in 2000 that ROCOR was again concelebrating with Serbia.  Seems disingenuous.

Anastasios

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« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2006, 09:19:44 AM »

What were the reasons for the breaking of communion?  Huh

A long cooling period, estrangement, the MP union, and the Cyprianites setting up a resistance church in Georgia.

Quote
The Cyprianite website should be updated then, as it's "Links" page says the following:

Whoa, tiger, it just happened yesterday. Give the webmaster a chance Wink

Quote
So, since they're no longer in communion with ROCOR, the Cyprianites are only in communion with the Old Calendarist Churches in Romania and Bulgaria?

Correct--but interestingly enough, those churches are still in communion with ROCOR at this time.  A queer situation certainly.

Quote
How large are each of these three Churches/Synods?

The Romanian Old Calendarists constantly put forth a figure of 130 churches and 1-2 million members.  However, these are mostly in the rural areas and hard to count.  They are not really well-known nor influential in Romania, I have heard.  But not being able to read Romania, I couldn't really say.  What I do know is their churches are beautiful and they have a really huge monastery (besides several other smaller ones).

Bulgaria is one bishop and 20 priests.  It is wholly dependent on Met Cyprian so I don't see them siding with ROCOR.
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Anastasios
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« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2006, 09:33:15 AM »

Some more questions popped into my mind -

Now that the Cyprianites have broken communion with ROCOR, what are the odds of their re-establishing communion with the GOC (Chrysostomos II)?

Also, who are the True Old Calendar Churches of Romania and Bulgaria in communion with?

Just eachother and the Cyprianites?

The odds of Metropolitan Cyprian returning to communion with my synod are very small.  He was consecrated secretly by two bishops without the vote of the Synod in 1979, along with seven others on different days that week.  Almost all of the other bishops repented of this action and returned to the Synod and were forgiven at a later point.  Instead of returning with them, he created his own Synod.  They claim he was simply elected the next president of their Synod but that is patently false.  We have visited him several times with emmissaries asking him to return but he refuses, preferring to tell us that we are on the verge of falling apart (for some 27 years now??) and stays separate.  Still, we hope he might come around--he has a nice monastery and great writings.

Here is an area where they have "won out" in publicity, though.  If you read their writings, which used to be very prominent on orthodoxinfo.com, and elsewhere, you would think that they are the "moderate" Synod and we (the GOC) are the "extremists."  They use these words as if we subscribe to a political ideology.  So they got ROCOR to join with them in 1994 because of their "moderation" and dissuaded them from entering into communion with us because of our "extremism."  I believed this nonsense until I actually started going to visit GOC Churches and realized it is a lie.  There are fanatics in our synod (with whom I do not associate) but the Cyprianite Synod has its fanatics, albeit of a different bent.  I'd prefer not to go into that further.

(Note to the Cyprianite internet reporter who is in charge of monitoring websites for comments about your Church: if you object to what I have written I would appreciate being contacted directly this time at anastasios0513@yahoo.com for further clarification instead of having my posts forwarded out of context to Archbishop Chrysostomos of Etna. Thank you.)
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Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

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Tags: GOC old calendar traditionalist changing ecclesiology again TOC Greek ROCOR Cyprianites Moscow Patriarchate 
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