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Author Topic: The Passing of Mother Russia...and Christendom.  (Read 5308 times) Average Rating: 0
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ibrahamozov
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« on: March 18, 2003, 12:55:31 PM »

á
Informed Volusian Issue 5 - Mar. 5, 2003 - Buchanan
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 Pat's Dividing Line

by PATRICK J. BUCHANANáááááááááááá ááááááááá á********
The Passing Away Of Mother Russia    

In many Catholic colleges of yesterday, students had to take 24 course hours of philosophy as a condition of graduation. At the core of the philosophy curriculum was Natural Law, and at the heart of Natural Law was the idea that men, through reason, could come to know how to lead a moral life.  

Not only could one reason to the existence of God, one could discern His laws for men. And those laws, once discovered, would be found consistent with Catholic teaching and moral doctrine.  
In Saturday's Washington Post is an illustration of the truth. For in the tragic story of Katya Esipova, and of millions of young Russian women like her, one can see that rejection of the Natural Law leads to unhappiness and even to the death of nations.  
Katya, a Russian woman of 30, had an abortion at 19. She thought little of it, though she was alarmed by the sustained bleeding. At 23, she and her husband tried to have a child, and failed. She did become pregnant at 27, but the fetus lodged in one of her blocked fallopian tubes. Doctors aborted it. Childless and infertile at 30, she will never know the joy of motherhood.  

Katya Esipova is a metaphor for Mother Russia.  

In Russia, until recently, women of child-bearing age averaged three abortions. Katya's story is thus replicated millions of times. And because of abortion, Russia has one of the lowest birth rates on earth, about one child per woman -- only half the birth rate needed to maintain Russia's population.  
Two years ago, in researching "Death of the West," I found that Russia's population of 147 million in 2000 was projected to fall to 114 million by 2050. Yet, since the book was written, the Russian future appears even more grim.  
Writes the Post: "U.N. population experts predict that in 50 years Russia will be the world's 17th most populous country; it is now the sixth. Projections show Russia will lose more than a quarter of its population, dropping from 143 million people to 104 million by 2050."  

Thus, the United Nations today projects that Russia will lose 10 million more people by 2050 than it had projected just a few years ago.  

By 2015, Russia's population will have already fallen to 133 million. Russians are literally disappearing from the face of the earth at a rate of about 1 million a year. Mother Russia is dying. And if her birth rate is not doubled or even trebled soon -- of which there are no signs whatsoever -- the largest nation on earth will cease to be in a few generations.  

When the Soviet Union broke up in 1991, and 14 new nations broke free of Moscow, Russia was still twice the size of the United States. But though most of Russia's population lives west of the Ural Mountains in Europe, most of Russia's territory is in Asia.  

Between the Urals and the Pacific, by one estimate, there are about as many Russians as there are Czechs in the Czech Republic, 10 million. It is these Russians who are dying out fastest. By mid-century, Russians in Asia could be outnumbered by Chinese 200-to-1. Is there any doubt as to which nation will control Siberia, that last, vast, untapped storehouse of natural resources on earth?  

Yet, send not to know for whom the bell tolls. For the birth rates in the Baltic republics, Italy and Spain are as low as Russia's. And the average in all of Europe, 1.4 births per woman, is only two-thirds of what is needed to keep Europe alive.

Already, in 17 of the nations of Europe, there are more burials than births  
During the Cold War, a great question was: Whose side is time on? In the struggle between the West and the Soviet Empire, which side would outlast the other? The West won the Cold War because of the superiority of its system and the appeal of its values.  

But in the coming contest with Islam, the question becomes more problematic.

While the Islamic world cannot match the West in science, technology, weaponry or wealth, all the Western nations have populations that are aging and starting to shrink, while all the Islamic nations have expanding or exploding populations.  

God is on the side of the big battalions, said Napoleon. In 1950, peoples of European ancestry comprised 30 percent of the world's population. They were the big battalions.
By 2050, European Man will amount to a tenth of the world's population, and the oldest tenth at that, and be facing near extinction by century's end.  

La Dolce Vita is apparently not healthy for a people interested in longevity. Someone else is going to inherit the earth.  
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Muslims, to be sure.
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2003, 02:04:27 PM »

I'd be happy to marry a young Russian hottie and help raise that average birthrate.   Cool
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« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2003, 11:27:15 AM »

Sad

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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2003, 11:54:31 AM »


God is on the side of the big battalions, said Napoleon. In 1950, peoples of European ancestry comprised 30 percent of the world's population. They were the big battalions.
By 2050, European Man will amount to a tenth of the world's population, and the oldest tenth at that, and be facing near extinction by century's end.




While I found the article to be very eye-opening, these few lines sound like something taken out of Mein Kampf or overheard at the local Klan meeting.

Once again, Mr. Buchanan lets his true stripe shine through.
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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2003, 11:55:27 PM »

Quote
While I found the article to be very eye-opening, these few lines sound like something taken out of Mein Kampf or overheard at the local Klan meeting.

Once again, Mr. Buchanan lets his true stripe shine through.

Why is it that when "whitey" says anything about the preservation of his kind or culture, it is always taken as a pre-lude to something sinister (such as comparisons to Hitler or the KKK)?  Are we (I'll qualify this for a moment, by saying that I'm bi-racial...so, kind of "we") so self loathing, that we believe there is nothing worth preserving, or nothing to be lost in the dissolution of western European civilization?

However, such a vanishing will be richly deserved, since it will have been brought on by ourselves (as Mr.Buchannan rightly points out)

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« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2003, 07:33:22 AM »

Pat Buchannan is a well known as a chauvinist. Here in California we are pretty used to his racist anti-Mexican electoral ads that advocate closing borders and blame most of California’s problems on illegal immigrants.

His statement on Muslims inheriting the earth speaks volumes. On the one hand who said that the earth is or should be the property of Europeans that will be ‘inherited’ by someone else? When the implications of that are broken down it become embarrsigly racist on his part. Second it sounds very much like a euphemism for either Arabs or non-white people in general.

He is warning about the shrinking demographics of Europeans while at the same time mentioning non-Europeans growing in numbers as if that in and of itself is something to fear. Well it is, for him and people who think like him.  It sounds no different than the propaganda put out by David Duke’s “National Association for the Advancement of White People” or statements by the Ku Klux Klan on this very same subject. It is no different than what anyone of  us in California experience often when a person of European descent looks us dead in the face and complains that in California ‘whites are not even the majority anymore’ as if there is something inherently wrong with that.

On their own Pat’s remarks would not necessarily be racist. But when combined with his usual way of thinking and speaking on this topic then it falls into a consistent pattern, a racist pattern.
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« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2003, 09:46:59 AM »

Ahem. Being against Illegal Immigrants and pointing out the problems they cause, expecially in California does not make one racist. Yet this is why Buchanan is berated as a racist.
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« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2003, 11:07:59 AM »

I take a couple of steps back from Pat's anti-immigration rhetoric and question Buchananomics too - see here - but:

1. A country's first obligation is to its citizens and practically speaking a country only can support so many people at a time - therefore some controls on immigration are necessary.

2. Right or left, race-based quotas are evil.

3. Part of the problem with 'multiculturalism' is while it appears charitable, it's relativistic, denying that according to objective principles such as those of Christianity, one culture is better than another. All people, all races, are equal in worth before God, but not all cultures are. (Example: The Aztecs practised human sacrifice, cutting out the heart of a living victim to please the sun god. Thanks, Hern+ín Cortez, for putting a stop to that and replacing it with the one Sacrifice of Christ in the Mass.) The decline and fall of European culture, which was Christian - and Catholic and Orthodox to boot - to the bone, CAN and SHOULD be decried. And Buchanan is not a racist for so doing.
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« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2003, 10:04:05 PM »

Quote
Pat Buchannan is a well known as a chauvinist. Here in California we are pretty used to his racist anti-Mexican electoral ads that advocate closing borders and blame most of California’s problems on illegal immigrants.

So wanting to protect one's borders is "racist"?

Quote
His statement on Muslims inheriting the earth speaks volumes. On the one hand who said that the earth is or should be the property of Europeans that will be ‘inherited’ by someone else? When the implications of that are broken down it become embarrsigly racist on his part. Second it sounds very much like a euphemism for either Arabs or non-white people in general.

I think you're reading a lot into what he says (for whatever reason.)  Given that he is speaking of "Muslims" (and are they not fond of pointing out to us that they're not "all Arab" or "all" of any one racial/ethnic group?), I do not see the statement as having racial import.  Perhaps you want to see minarets throughout the west, but I for one share Buchanan's concern.

Quote
He is warning about the shrinking demographics of Europeans while at the same time mentioning non-Europeans growing in numbers as if that in and of itself is something to fear.

So concern over one's kin and kine is something appropriate only for "coloured" peoples?  The man see's his civilization in decline (and he's right, it is); he has every right to be upset.  It seems the only option open for white "Euro-man" in our day, is to be self loathing, and indifferent to the decline of his people and culture.

Quote
It sounds no different than the propaganda put out by David Duke’s “National Association for the Advancement of White People” or statements by the Ku Klux Klan on this very same subject.

Painting with a broad brush is a very dangerous thing.  Just today, I had it implied that the only Orthodox who oppose what is going on in Iraq now, are the same type of "Orthodox" who in the past formed the commie "living Church" in the Soviet Union.  In other words, liberal chuckleheads, who loved their socialist/humanist causes more than Christ.  Now, being both an Orthodox traditionalist, and vehemently against what is going on in the Middle East as we speak, I took exception to this.

It may be a very lonely place I occupy, but I feel it's unfair that my own position is lumped into that say, of communist/anarchist/environmentalist "Seattle" types.

Thus, I would encourage you to avoid making connections that I am quite sure Pat Buchannan himself would never make (between his own views, and say, the Darwinian-racial views of David Duke.)

Quote
It is no different than what anyone of  us in California experience often when a person of European descent looks us dead in the face and complains that in California ‘whites are not even the majority anymore’ as if there is something inherently wrong with that.

It may be uncomfortable, but not hard to understand, since "they" lost their hold on California via people who violated their national border and illegally occupy the state (not to mention constitute, at least early on, a huge financial burden on tax payers.)

Should we pooh-pooh Palestinians as well, for resenting the presence of so many Jews on their soil (given that these Jews also arrived illegally, and were a great imposition upon the native inhabitants of Palestine)?

Quote
On their own Pat’s remarks would not necessarily be racist. But when combined with his usual way of thinking and speaking on this topic then it falls into a consistent pattern, a racist pattern.

Forgive me if I fail to see the legitimacy of the connections you're making.

Seraphim
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2003, 12:20:34 AM »

Seraphim,

I agree with you that Pat is not a racist for saying what he says but I disagree with your statement that illegal immigrants are a tax burden, since they're not.  They pay taxes too, and pay social security (which they will never see), not to mention they get paid a lot less than what a white or black would get for the same work, and they produce service industry jobs.  The freeloaders take their toll (whether illegal, legal, or natural) but the hardworking immigrants outweigh that.

Every girl I have ever dated sans one and my wife are all immigrants so I am biased ;-)

anastasios
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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2003, 12:27:41 AM »

I'm still imagining you raising Indian kids.  

Would you have quoted Vedas along with Scripture in your household?

In IC XC
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« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2003, 03:18:43 AM »

Samer,

Didn't you know that my ex-fiancee was a Muslim of the Ishmaeli Shia sect?  Shocked

Obviously though they weren't serious Muslims when the girl and her dad both prayed Vespers with me once and kissed my icon of Christ regularly and said "Yes, Isa is God!"

My wife, who was my girlfriend before and again after  the "Indian" incident (thank God for second chances!), is Slovak (born in Slovakia).

All previous girlfriends before her except one were Hispanic.

In Christ,

anastasios
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« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2003, 09:38:44 AM »

Anastasios,

ILLEGAL Immigrants do not pay income taxes, they do not pay social security and they do get welfare money in California. Someone without a scoial security number cannot pay social security.
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« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2003, 10:13:04 AM »

Quote
Right or left, race-based quotas are evil.

I am not sure where race based quotas were mentioned in this discussion.

Quote
The Aztecs practised human sacrifice, cutting out the heart of a living victim to please the sun god.

South America is a whole continent and the Aztec practices stand out like a sore thumb. How would you justify the conquest of the Inca and the rest, for instance, who had no type of  sacrifices like the Aztecs?

Quote
The decline and fall of European culture, which was Christian - and Catholic and Orthodox to boot - to the bone, CAN and SHOULD be decried.

European culture is de-Christianizing itself on its own. Declining Church attendance in Europe, secularization, the policies of communism, the disbelief in the Virgin Birth and the Real Presence in the Eucharist, etc. have ZERO to do with immigrants or declining European demographics.  

Quote
Part of the problem with 'multiculturalism' is while it appears charitable, it's relativistic, denying that according to objective principles such as those of Christianity, one culture is better than another.

I think what you are referring to is moral relativism, which is a different baby than multi-culturalism. Orthodoxy is multi-cultural. It takes on the diverse cultures of its adherents and re-baptizes them in Christ. Any random survey of the small ‘t’ traditions within Orthodoxy is witness to that. There is also a counter tendency in Orthodoxy which was less flexible. The Hellenistic bias of the Byzantine Empire led to many Semitic Orthodox embracing Islam as some kind of liberator when it arrived. While the pitfalls of excessive cultural nationalism and multi-culturalism are obvious, so is the other tendency of  Buchanan’s 21st Century “White Man’s Burden.”

Quote
I had it implied that the only Orthodox who oppose what is going on in Iraq now, are the same type of "Orthodox" who in the past formed the commie "living Church" in the Soviet Union.

Most Orthodox I know, both clergy and laity, are against the war. So whoever told you that was speaking more from emotion than fact.  

Quote
It may be uncomfortable, but not hard to understand, since "they" lost their hold on California via people who violated their national border and illegally occupy the state


Now how in the world is that? Illegal immigrants are not what led to the change in California demographics. Legal immigration did. The immigration of Asians, the birth rate (as well as the immigration and naturalization of Latinos) and the immigration of African Americans from other parts of the country.

Quote
It seems the only option open for white "Euro-man" in our day, is to be self loathing, and indifferent to the decline of his people and culture.

Yes, I hear that complaint often and it sounds like a straw man to me. I don’t think that ‘Euro-man’ has to do any of that. Simply learn to live with diversity and understand that being present does not necessitate having to always be in charge. America is not western civilization (if by that is implied an extension of Europe), it is American civilization, both in its origin and its evolution.

Quote
Should we pooh-pooh Palestinians as well, for resenting the presence of so many Jews on their soil (given that these Jews also arrived illegally, and were a great imposition upon the native inhabitants of Palestine)?

That’s a jump. I don’t see how you manage to compare Zionism, the forcible robbing of Palestinians of their land, and military occupation with Mexican Americans. Palestinians have problems with colonization, not Jews living in their lands. Some Palestinians are Jewish.

Pat Buchanan is a dangerous man. He appeals to the very same cheap sentiments that any of the right-wing neo-fascist groups do. There is a way to recapture the spirit of European Christendom without engaging in race baiting and immigrant bashing. There is a way to foster traditional Christian values and promote them without attacking the cultural diversity of America. There is a way to strengthen the Church without using demographic arguments.

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« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2003, 11:57:41 AM »

Historically, race-based quotas were used to limit immigration to the US, favoring northern Europeans (repealed in 1965).

Of course the Church is truly multicultural. That's why I put the word in mock inverted commas here - to make clear I was referring to the get-whitey, Europe (and Christendom) s*cks, PC meaning, not the real meaning.

The de-Christianization of Europe and North America is connected to the plummeting birthrate as nonbelievers contracept and abort.
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« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2003, 07:39:58 PM »

Anastasios,

ILLEGAL Immigrants do not pay income taxes, they do not pay social security and they do get welfare money in California. Someone without a scoial security number cannot pay social security.

Nik,

Sorry bud, you are wrong!  ILLEGAL immigrants do pay income taxes and social security.  Why? Because hardly ANYONE hires people with cash anymore; ILLEGAL immigrants get fake social security cards, but still are paying the SS (which they will never see) and still pay income taxes.  Also, ILLEGAL immigrants when they win awards against companies that mistreat them, such as the many injury cases I saw while working in a law firm dealing with this type of thing, get an IRS taxpayer identification number and pay taxes on the award.

I'm generally against welfare anyway except in exceptional cases so I don't like California giving it to illegal immigrants.

anastasios
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« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2003, 07:44:31 PM »

Aklie,

I generally agree with what you wrote (but think you are missing Serge's point).  However, one paragraph stuck out:

"The Hellenistic bias of the Byzantine Empire led to many Semitic Orthodox embracing Islam as some kind of liberator when it arrived."

It is my understanding that that is an opinion that has never been proven and which is probably a fairy tale.  The middle eastern Semitic Christians were somewhat ambivalent to the whole thing when it happened, but didn't cheer or aid the Muslim forces.

In Christ,

anastasios
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« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2003, 10:45:51 PM »

It is my understanding that that is an opinion that has never been proven and which is probably a fairy tale.  The middle eastern Semitic Christians were somewhat ambivalent to the whole thing when it happened, but didn't cheer or aid the Muslim forces.

anastasios,

I actually read the book on this subject in the library and don’t have it with me now for reference, but it is not a fairy tale. For one, understand when I say ‘as some kind of liberator’ I am not referring to people lining up in the streets waiving flags to greet the jihadists. It refers to the mass conversion to Islam that took place.  There are two expression to this “Muslims as liberators’ theme, one in Byzantine Orthodoxy and one in Oriental Orthodoxy.

Byzantine Orthodoxy: Middle Eastern Christians converted to Islam in droves, a result of the inflexibility of Byzantine Hellenism. Even to this day there is a campaign by Arab Christians to get an Arab Patriarch in Jerusalem, who hitherto has been Greek.

Oriental Orthodoxy: you can look at some of the articles posted on the Orthodox Unity page for a hint of this history (but by no means comprehensive). After Chalcedon politics set in big time. While most of the Egyptian laity were non-Chalcedon supporters the Byzantine Emperor went to extremes to make sure that all of the bishops in Egypt were Chalcedon supporters, even if it meant appointing foreigners and imprisoning and exiling Bishops who would not comply. They were all Melkites, imperial appointees. This situation continued until the Arab conquest of Egypt. When Byzantine lost power, the Copts assumed their positions back in the Church. They supported the conquest (as well as later supporting the Muslim side in the crusades).
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« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2003, 10:46:32 PM »

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The de-Christianization of Europe and North America is connected to the plummeting birthrate as nonbelievers contracept and abort.


I don’t get it Serge. Can you cite an article or elaborate on your own a bit. I don’t see the connection between secularization, agnosticism, declining moral values and plummeting birth rates.
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« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2003, 11:10:13 PM »

Anastasios, that may happen in some cases, but when I lived in Nebraska the seasonal workers were illegal and paid cash. There are hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens doing this, paying no income tax or social security.

In Texas it also most mostly work for cash, even in factories. In the stories these owners would say they did not hire Mexicans with social security card for fear they were fake and that would set off a investigation since the SSA catches these fakes.

So I guess some pay and some do not.
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« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2003, 02:21:31 AM »

Nik,

How long ago did you live in Texas and Nebraska?  Most of the workers in NC that I knew due to the job were paid with checks.  Only a handfull were paid in cash.  Even farmers paid in check in NC!  Perhaps the states are different.  I can only go by my experience.

In Christ,

anastasios
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« Reply #21 on: March 23, 2003, 09:15:19 PM »

Posted by "ibrahamozov"? eh? Is that you Abdur?
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« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2003, 12:37:12 AM »

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From Elisha: I'd be happy to marry a young Russian hottie and help raise that average birthrate.

If you're serious, I could probably fix you up!  Grin
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« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2003, 01:03:41 AM »

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From Elisha: I'd be happy to marry a young Russian hottie and help raise that average birthrate.

If you're serious, I could probably fix you up!  Grin  

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't interested...I'm on the west coast though... Wink
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« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2003, 01:15:29 AM »

Elisha -

I'll work on securing a couple of email addresses for you and let you take it from there.

I know of a lot of nice girls who would be thrilled by just the thought of California!  Grin

Of course, you will have to make a few trips to Russia yourself, including waiting in line with your intended at the Embassy in Moscow (a daunting proposition - been there, done that).

Age range preference?

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« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2003, 03:18:30 PM »

I'd be happy to marry a young Russian hottie and help raise that average birthrate.   Cool

Blah.  BTW, Russia has more than its fair share of ugly women. I wonder if that has anything to do with the declining birth rate.
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« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2003, 06:20:55 PM »

In the "Suggestions" thread was talk of getting more women on the forum... talk like this ("hotties" and "ugly") are going to make them want to post here?

Skin deep looks or faithful believing woman?  Which is important?

Ebor
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« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2003, 06:48:57 PM »

In the "Suggestions" thread was talk of getting more women on the forum... talk like this ("hotties" and "ugly") are going to make them want to post here?

Skin deep looks or faithful believing woman?  Which is important?

Ebor

It is a lost cause Ebor. We are never going to get many women to post here. Anyway, it is not my responsibility to promote this site. I am not a moderator, I just give my opinion on things.  On your second question, we all know that people talk a good game about what is being on the inside, but people do the opposite things of what they say. I would say looks to me are just as important as a faithful believing person at this point in time.  Anyway, it is very hard nowadays to find a faithful believing young woman.
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« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2003, 06:49:04 PM »

Here here Ebor!

A pleasing appearance would be icing on the cake. I think a big problem with a lot of americans is that we haved sated ourselves with sweets for so long we can't appreciate a cake without icing.  

David SWM/24/SC

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« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2003, 09:34:47 PM »

Quote
From sinjinsmythe: Blah.  BTW, Russia has more than its fair share of ugly women.

Not that I saw when I lived there!  Grin

I have lived all over the U.S. (Navy brat), and I have NEVER seen such a concentration of beautiful women as I saw in Moscow. Whoa!

There is something about that Russian combo of Slav with a touch of Tatar, not to mention the other items in the mix: Scandinavian, Finnish, etc.

Anyway, I cannot vouch for the spiritual qualities of ALL of them; but I would not try to fix Elisha up with anyone no-good. I am working on it as we speak.  Grin

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« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2003, 09:47:43 PM »

In the "Suggestions" thread was talk of getting more women on the forum... talk like this ("hotties" and "ugly") are going to make them want to post here?

Skin deep looks or faithful believing woman?  Which is important?

Ebor

It is a lost cause Ebor. We are never going to get many women to post here. Anyway, it is not my responsibility to promote this site. I am not a moderator, I just give my opinion on things.  On your second question, we all know that people talk a good game about what is being on the inside, but people do the opposite things of what they say. I would say looks to me are just as important as a faithful believing person at this point in time.  Anyway, it is very hard nowadays to find a faithful believing young woman.  

Is it likewise as hard to find a faithful believing young man who does not want a super beauty?

Why do you want women to post here?  For their ideas and opinions (which are all we can see here)? How do you know that there aren't women who are members of this forum who don't have a nik you recognize as female. (That is or was a fairly common 'net thing to avoid harassment, I'm told.)  Or they choose not to post much or at all.  I looked at the membership list.  There are many folk who don't post.  It may not be our responsibility as ordinary members to promote the site, but we can by our actions and words make it a place that others find they would like to join in.  

Ebor
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« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2003, 10:01:08 PM »

Must we be PC even here?

We are not talking smut here.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a young man's preference for a woman who is nice looking.

Why should any man be made to feel guilty about that?

Of course, a woman's spiritual, emotional, and intellectual qualities are more important than her looks; but those are not the things one first sees.

Are you saying that women prefer ugly guys?

Should we avoid any reference at all to beauty in women?

Should we attempt to round up a group of Orthodox young men who will selflessly volunteer to marry ugly women?

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« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2003, 10:14:56 PM »

It's not a binary beautiful/ugly situation.  Humans aren't either "hotties" or "ugly" with nothing in between.  Should the first question about someone be if they are physically up to snuff?  I don't know all "women" but the older Sean Connery and other more senior actors have followings from what I've read and they sure aren't like in their younger days.  So some appear to prefer what some others would call 'ugly guys'.
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« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2003, 10:44:18 PM »

Great.

I still say there is absolutely nothing wrong with a young man's preference for an attractive woman.

Whether he ultimately ends up with such a woman is another matter.

I did not say that looks were the most important quality in a human being.

They are not.

But I do not think anyone should be made to feel guilty for his preference for an attractive female, other things being equal.


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« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2003, 12:47:45 AM »

It's not a binary beautiful/ugly situation.  Humans aren't either "hotties" or "ugly" with nothing in between.  Should the first question about someone be if they are physically up to snuff?  I don't know all "women" but the older Sean Connery and other more senior actors have followings from what I've read and they sure aren't like in their younger days.  So some appear to prefer what some others would call 'ugly guys'.  

Sean Connery is not an ugly man. Old does not equal ugly necessary. I believe Connery was named sexiest man alive.  Connery is a handsome man, and always has been so he is a bad example.
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« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2003, 10:46:32 PM »

Back to the original topic.

Russian couples are not going to start having lots of kids until the economy in Russia turns around for the better.

The average Russian makes the equivalent of about $70 a month (when their employers are paying them).

That is not enough to feed and care for a large family.

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