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Author Topic: Whats up with this?  (Read 2008 times) Average Rating: 0
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Robert
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« on: March 17, 2003, 08:48:37 AM »

http://churchtimes.co.uk/templates/NewsTemplate_3r.asp?recid=1725&table=news&bimage=news&issue=7306&count=2
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the slave
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2003, 09:55:43 AM »

I have to admit that to my knowledge it is not the first time that Mr Blair has Received in an RC Church. This has been discussed in the Press on several occasions and has not been denied. Mind I cannot quote Chapter and verse - but I do know it has happened.

Permission is rarely granted for the non-Catholic to receive though I do know  it was granted to the father of an RC Child I had cared for for 7 years [ a Cystic Fibrosis sufferer who was not able to have a transplant] . At a Mass of Thanksgiving for her life in the School I was asked by our Chaplain if I would be willing [ as you know I am an EEM] to give Communion to her Father. He [ the Chaplain ] had been very distressed at seeing Julie's Father staying in the pew during Communion  at her Funeral Mass and not even being given a Blessing then. This was the man who had carried in the small white coffin of his daughter. The Parish Priest concerned had said that it was not possible.

Knowing that this very special Mass  for a wonderful child was planned Fr S asked for permission to give him Communion should he wish to Receive and this was granted. And Bobby came to me that day at School.

This is the not the only time that I have known it. I do know of an Archbishop who has given Communion to a High Anglican as well at a small Community's  Annual thanksgiving Mass.
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2003, 10:54:23 AM »

I know Mr Blair received at his wife's church for a while, breaking the rule. I'm shocked that the Pope himself would stoop to such chicanery, communing a Protestant perhaps for political reasons. (Sure gives the SSPX and the sedevacantists ammo.) The excuse that there is no Anglican church in the Vatican is so lame! If Mr B wanted, he could have gone to one of several such churches in central Rome and gone to communion.

As for situations like the slave describes, I'd tell the person he can get a blessing at Communion, but not Communion.

Reminds me of a good friend's wedding at a Byzantine Catholic church: the Orthodox tradition of the antidoron came in handy. The non-Catholic guests got to go up, get a blessing and even a piece of blessed bread, which some received like Communion, but not Communion.
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Mor Ephrem
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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2003, 11:29:24 AM »

The excuse that there is no Anglican church in the Vatican is so lame! If Mr B wanted, he could have gone to one of several such churches in central Rome and gone to communion.

Ah, the benefits of being a sovereign nation small enough to be jogged around in under an hour...you can justify Protestants receiving Communion because "there's no Anglican church in our country", even though there's one ten minutes away in the other country.  Tongue
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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2003, 01:20:32 PM »

Here is a story denying that it happened.
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the slave
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2003, 02:59:42 PM »

Sine one paper says it did happen and anopther says it didn't - it seems to me you pays your money and takes your choice.

Frankly, at present ,I think there is more to concern us than did it or didn't it happen.


God help all those who are at present making decisions which will affect us all.
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2003, 04:24:04 PM »

Dear Friends:

In capsule, these are the guidelines for the reception of Communion by non-Catholic Christians in any Catholic Church (Roman or Byzantine):

General Rule:

Because Catholics believe that the celebration of the Eucharist is a sign of the reality of oneness of faith, life, and worship, members of those churches not yet fully united with the Catholic Church are ordinarily not admitted to Holy Communion.

Exceptions:

Members of the Orthodox Churches, the Assyrian Church of the East, and the Polish National Catholic Church are allowed to receive communion in any Catholic Church,without the prior permission from the diocesan bishop. However, they are urged to respect the discipline of their own churches.

For Christians (like Anglicans, Lutherans, and other Protestant denominations) other than the above, prior permission according to the directives of the diocesan bishop and the provisions of Canon Law is necessary before communion is granted.

This was the case for Prime Minister Tony Blair (Anglican) of the UK when he was allowed to receive Holy Communion from the Holy Father when he was invited to attend a private Mass offered by the Pope during his visit to the Vatican last Feb. 22nd. The dispensation was granted by the Cardinal Prefect of the Secretariat of State. (BTW, Tony Blair's wife and all their children are Catholic.)

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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2003, 10:46:34 PM »

Serge,

With all that is going on today, I'm surprised that you are shocked.  To me, this comes as no surprise.  :-

JoeS

I know Mr Blair received at his wife's church for a while, breaking the rule. I'm shocked that the Pope himself would stoop to such chicanery, communing a Protestant perhaps for political reasons. (Sure gives the SSPX and the sedevacantists ammo.) The excuse that there is no Anglican church in the Vatican is so lame! If Mr B wanted, he could have gone to one of several such churches in central Rome and gone to communion.

As for situations like the slave describes, I'd tell the person he can get a blessing at Communion, but not Communion.

Reminds me of a good friend's wedding at a Byzantine Catholic church: the Orthodox tradition of the antidoron came in handy. The non-Catholic guests got to go up, get a blessing and even a piece of blessed bread, which some received like Communion, but not Communion.
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the slave
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2003, 04:19:19 AM »

There is of course only one person who can say with any degree of authority as to whether Mr Blair did or did not Receive Communion from the Holy Father, or has in his wife's Church at any time - the man himself.

Since he is not likely to - I will not presume to guess.

I do knowthat under some very specific circumstances permission may be given.

I now back out of this topic
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"Never let anyone try to tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern. The West was fully Orthodox for a thousand years; and her venerable liturgy is far older than any of her heresies."
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2003, 10:58:20 AM »

Here's why I was shocked, IF it happened: the Catholic rule makes sense. If there REALLY is NO church of his own he can go to, and if the Protestant really believes in the Real Presence, I can understand it (if not necessarily accept it - it still doesn't make too much sense to the Orthodox phronema, even though Bishop Kallistos [Ware] says economic Communion of non-Orthodox does happen). But to do it when there are three Anglican churches minutes away, in really the same city (as the Vatican-as-nation is a legal creation, not a geographical one), would be beneath the Pope as I understand the man. That wouldn't be economy, just chicanery. Glad to read that the Church Times may have been wrong.
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