OrthodoxChristianity.net
April 24, 2014, 01:05:22 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The Rules page has been updated.  Please familiarize yourself with its contents!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: What (german) bible is being used in the orthodox church in Germany?  (Read 2099 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Innocent_T
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 36


« on: February 12, 2006, 01:35:47 AM »

I may be out of luck here and it might be in the wrong board that I am posting this. But I am looking for someone who can tell me what german translation of the bible is being used in an orthodox church in Germany (if they use German in their services). Somehow I doubt that it would be a translation by Luther or the infamous "Einheitsuebersetzung" of the Roman-Catholic Church. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Logged

Rdr. Innocent, a sinner
Elisha
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,347


« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2006, 02:42:29 AM »

Sorry, but probably one of those are used.

I really don't know much about Orthodox churches in Germany (and Switzerland and Austria) - just that they are mainly Russian Church Abroad and some Greek parishes.  The Russian parishes are mainly in Slavonic with some German and the Greek parishes are likely mostly in Greek.  Seven years ago when I was in Germany for a summer I stopped by a ROCOR church in Baden-Baden for Liturgy but the priest was on vacation (church left open by a nice Russian woman who spoke good German though for people to light some candles).  Again, from what I've read, I'm sure German is used on occasion in Liturgies there, but no so regular like English here.

Maybe someone else with first hand experience can post something here.
Logged
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,064


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2006, 10:55:04 AM »

When I went to Vienna (Austria) 4 years ago to a Serbian church they used Church-Slavonic exclusively.  There was absolutely NO german used.  Not even during coffee hour.  But 90% of those people are refugees from the verious wars in the 90's.  So they probobly wouldn't be too happy using german.  They know it, just don't use it. 

I also, unfortunately, think that you're right about the Orthodox churches using the Luther bible, if at all.  Although, you never know, they might use a more modern translation...someone who has REAL first had experience should answer this question. 
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,436


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2006, 11:13:54 AM »

I wondered this myself, as I am learning German.
Logged

Check out my personal website with 130+ articles: www.anastasioshudson.com

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching.

I served as an Orthodox priest from June 2008 to April 2013, before resigning for personal reasons
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2006, 01:41:29 PM »

I can't speak for the non-greek churches, but from what I know all the Greek Churches use 100% Greek...no german whatsoever, so it really wouldn't be an issue for them.
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,064


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2006, 03:17:18 PM »

So it looks like the Russian churches or someone else are really the only ones who MIGHT be using German.  That's pretty interesting considering the fact that German is such a theologically rich language.  Eh, i'm not the bishop, its not like my opinion's gona matter on this. 

Hey does anyone know if the Catholics use German there?  They should post Vatican II but I just wanted to ask.  And if anyone knows which Bible they use, that would be useful too. 
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
Innocent_T
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 36


« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2006, 12:27:28 AM »

I can answer the question about the Roman Catholics: They are using German. And they have their own German translation of the bible called "Einheitsuebersetzung". It might be a correct translation but having read this translation and compared to Luthers translation in the "Einheitsuebersetzung" there is absolutely no poetic language anymore. It is rather flat and blah ... From that standpoint I would prefer Luther's translation. However there is the problem with the Apocrypha what you will not find in a Lutheran bible. Plus Luther's translation is not based on the Septuagint what an orthodox translation is normally based on.
I am fairly certain that there is a sanctified translation by the orthodox church in Germany. It might not be used during service but during daily scripture reading of the lay people I would be surprised if the churches there would not suggest a German translation for the lay people too. And I remember when I attended services there that especially the Russian churches sometimes read the Apostol and Gospel in German.
Logged

Rdr. Innocent, a sinner
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,064


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2006, 08:28:13 AM »

To be honest, the Russians are probobly the only ones in Germany doing this.  I don't think any of the other "mainstream" churches are using ANY german, not even during readings.  At least in my experience they didn't.  But hey..times change. 
Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
Linnapaw
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: MP
Posts: 35


WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2009, 10:06:43 AM »

In my MP parish in Germany, whenever German is read out of the Bible, it is, indeed, a Luther translation that is used.  However, *most* Luther translations in Germany do include the Apocrypha, being as it was mostly English Bible "scholars" who pushed to have these books removed.  (As a matter of fact, no German Bible published before 1945 would have not included the Apocrypha.  The only reason that there were many German Bibles published afterwards without it is because after WWII, the American Bible Association refused to assist in the printing of any German Bible which included it.  However, the entire Apocrypha is considered canon, and it is not unheard of to see game show Bible questions which come out of books such as Judith.  I've also encountered German Protestants referencing the books of the Maccabees as a matter of course!)

Knowing the problems with the Luther translation, my German Bible seems to be a  fairly rare translation done in the 1960s (Hamp/Stenzel/Kuerzinger translation, also known as the Pattloch translation). 

For the life of me, I can't remember what the ROCOR churches use for a translation, however, (probably in large part to Archbishop +Mark, who himself is a German convert) ROCOR has produced a lot of German-language materials, including lives of the saints, a magazine, prayer books, sacred music in German, etc.  Many ROCOR churches (even very small ones) offer the Divine Liturgy in German (though these are usually held Saturdays, so that the Sunday services can remain primarily in Church Slavonic). 
Logged

Man is free, to be sure, but without the true God he is defenseless against the principle of evil. He is a like rudderless ship, at the mercy of the storm, an infant without his mother, a cloud dissolving into thin air.
-H. Scholl/A. Schmorell
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 35,633



« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2009, 11:01:02 AM »

I can answer the question about the Roman Catholics: They are using German. And they have their own German translation of the bible called "Einheitsuebersetzung". It might be a correct translation but having read this translation and compared to Luthers translation in the "Einheitsuebersetzung" there is absolutely no poetic language anymore. It is rather flat and blah ... From that standpoint I would prefer Luther's translation. However there is the problem with the Apocrypha what you will not find in a Lutheran bible. Plus Luther's translation is not based on the Septuagint what an orthodox translation is normally based on.
I am fairly certain that there is a sanctified translation by the orthodox church in Germany. It might not be used during service but during daily scripture reading of the lay people I would be surprised if the churches there would not suggest a German translation for the lay people too. And I remember when I attended services there that especially the Russian churches sometimes read the Apostol and Gospel in German.

The Vatican's translation's ceased to be based on the Septuagint since the Vulgate.  The Psalter was the only exception: it had been too consecrated by usage to play with.  Ditto the Scriptural passages in the Divine Liturgy itself, outside the readings.  The Anagignoskomena you won't find in Luther's "Apocrypha," you won't find in the Vatican's Deuterocanonicals (except Esdras).
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Gorazd
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: The Ecumenical Patriarchate of Istanbul and Chambésy
Posts: 1,855



« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2009, 09:13:17 AM »

There now is a translation of the Septuagint in German (a collaboration between Roman Catholic, Lutheran and Orthodox scholars). The print includes Orthodox liturgical readings which are currently being introduced into the German language services in Orthodox churches in Germany (Remember that most services are in Old Greek or Church Slavonic though).

http://www.amazon.de/Septuaginta-Deutsch-griechische-Testament-%C3%9Cbersetzung/dp/3438051222


Logged
Pilgrim
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Inquirer
Jurisdiction: Holy Orthodoxy
Posts: 304



« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2009, 08:35:42 PM »

I may be out of luck here and it might be in the wrong board that I am posting this. But I am looking for someone who can tell me what german translation of the bible is being used in an orthodox church in Germany (if they use German in their services). Somehow I doubt that it would be a translation by Luther or the infamous "Einheitsuebersetzung" of the Roman-Catholic Church. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Why is it "infamous"? Huh
Logged

Heavenly King, Comforter, Spirit of Truth help us to walk the way of Life, which is Christ Jesus.

St. Cyril, St. Leo, and St. Severus pray that the Church may be united and one, Eastern and Oriental.St. Issac the Syrian, pray that Assyria would return to the Holy Church. St. Gregory, pray for Rom
Pilgrim
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Inquirer
Jurisdiction: Holy Orthodoxy
Posts: 304



« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2009, 05:37:01 PM »

BUMP
Logged

Heavenly King, Comforter, Spirit of Truth help us to walk the way of Life, which is Christ Jesus.

St. Cyril, St. Leo, and St. Severus pray that the Church may be united and one, Eastern and Oriental.St. Issac the Syrian, pray that Assyria would return to the Holy Church. St. Gregory, pray for Rom
Gorazd
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: The Ecumenical Patriarchate of Istanbul and Chambésy
Posts: 1,855



« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2009, 04:57:44 PM »

Einheitsübersetzung has both bad style and inexact, sometimes cleraly incorrect translation. And it doesn't reflect the patristic understanding at all anymore, it pretty much liberal Protestant higher criticism stuff, although it is officially roman Catholic (parts of it approved by Lutherans though).

Actually not just Russians use German, I've seen a Bulgarian service in Berlin using both Bulgarian and German for example. A local EP church has German services once a month etc. But immigrant languages clearly dominate.
Logged
orthonorm
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,167



« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2010, 09:11:17 PM »

There now is a translation of the Septuagint in German (a collaboration between Roman Catholic, Lutheran and Orthodox scholars). The print includes Orthodox liturgical readings which are currently being introduced into the German language services in Orthodox churches in Germany (Remember that most services are in Old Greek or Church Slavonic though).

http://www.amazon.de/Septuaginta-Deutsch-griechische-Testament-%C3%9Cbersetzung/dp/3438051222




Bump.

Any thoughts about the above translation?
Logged

Gradually fading away on a strict punishment schedule.
Punch
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Serbian Orthodox
Jurisdiction: New Gracanica Metropolitanate
Posts: 4,469



« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2010, 10:29:44 PM »

My German Bible, published in 1901 by Concordia in St. Louis, does indeed contain the Apocrypha.
Logged

God did not create man equal.  Samuel Colt made man equal.  Blessed be the Peacemaker.
serb1389
Lord, remember me when you come into your Kingdom!
Global Moderator
Merarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of San Francisco
Posts: 8,064


Michał Kalina's biggest fan

FrNPantic
WWW
« Reply #16 on: August 20, 2010, 01:19:57 AM »

There now is a translation of the Septuagint in German (a collaboration between Roman Catholic, Lutheran and Orthodox scholars). The print includes Orthodox liturgical readings which are currently being introduced into the German language services in Orthodox churches in Germany (Remember that most services are in Old Greek or Church Slavonic though).

http://www.amazon.de/Septuaginta-Deutsch-griechische-Testament-%C3%9Cbersetzung/dp/3438051222




Bump.

Any thoughts about the above translation?

It looks pretty good actually.  Anything by Kraus is pretty excellent. 

Logged

I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
March 27th and May 30th 2010 were my Ordination dates, please forgive everything before that
Tags: Germany Bible 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.075 seconds with 44 queries.