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Author Topic: I'm not sure where this "hot" topic should go...  (Read 12356 times) Average Rating: 0
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suzannes
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« on: February 11, 2006, 11:32:31 PM »

Hi Everyone,
I want to post a question, but I don't want it to turn into an angry debate, I don't want to introduce discord into this forum, but I would just like to get some opinions.  I read another forum, but post very infrequently.  I shouldn't even read it, because I generally find it depressing and full of some very angry stuff (yes, it is an Orthodox forum.)  However, recently there have been posts linking to "Illuminati" sites, Protocols of the Elders of Zion, crop circles, you get the idea.  To my shock, people defend this sort of stuff.  I am NOT talking about valid criticism of Israel, or anything like that.  I'm refering to very "out there" sites, for example, I found out tonight that Bill Frist is the Antichrist, I'm always the last to know!!

I have no idea whether the people posting are Orthodox Christians or not.  I guess my question is: have really wacko types just found a forum where their posts are not *universally* attacked, or do you find a lot of younger Orthodox buy into this stuff?  I can't understand why the moderators allow this, but who knows?  Some of this is however, really virulent anti-semitism, and I find it upsetting.  I even talked to my priest about this a while back.  Like I said, these are not legitimate concerns that are being posted, but just very thinly disguised hatred.
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2006, 11:39:41 PM »

You will find that amongst the Orthodox the entire spectrum of political ideals can be found, from radical communism to radical fascism, from anarchy to monarchy. Ultimately the ideals should be judged on their qualities and their fruits. But that is for you do to, no one can do it for you (and I would be most suspicious of anyone who claims they can). However, if you want to discuss and debate these things the new politics forum would probably be appropriate.
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2006, 11:52:07 PM »

I don't know if the politics forum would be appropos.... maybe FFA or Faith... My understanding of the question is "why are there so many hateful and apparently-strange orthodox posters, and why would this other board allow them to continue?"  suzannes, does this sound right?
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2006, 11:59:14 PM »

You will find that amongst the Orthodox the entire spectrum of political ideals can be found, from radical communism to radical fascism, from anarchy to monarchy. Ultimately the ideals should be judged on their qualities and their fruits. But that is for you do to, no one can do it for you (and I would be most suspicious of anyone who claims they can). However, if you want to discuss and debate these things the new politics forum would probably be appropriate.

But how in the world are crop circles, the Antichrist, and the Illuminati related to politics? I'd move it to FFA, and I think some good questions are brought up.
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« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2006, 12:07:49 AM »

But how in the world are crop circles, the Antichrist, and the Illuminati related to politics? I'd move it to FFA, and I think some good questions are brought up.

I've always seen the issues linked to 'survivalist'/populist political ideologies, thus my recommendation. If no one here supports such ideologies, I could always step in and give it a go Wink
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« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2006, 12:23:45 AM »

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I can't understand why the moderators allow this, but who knows?

As the Administrator of that site still reads over this forum (and used to be an Admin here, mwahaha!), perhaps he will share his thoughts concerning his forum. Smiley

I rented a DVD tonight titled Illuminating Angels and Demons and I guess is supposed to be about the Illuminanti bunk. I don't expect to believe very much of what I'll see or hear, but I figured that it should be interesting viewing. Smiley If I start posting conspiracy theories on OC.net tomorrow, you will know what DVD to avoid!
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« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2006, 12:29:21 AM »

I've always seen the issues linked to 'survivalist'/populist political ideologies, thus my recommendation. If no one here supports such ideologies, I could always step in and give it a go Wink

Ah, but populism is more of a rhetorical style that is in turn used to support political ideologies. It's simply a way to link things completely unrelated to politics in order to draw popular support. A form of "campaigning," if you will. But of course, we know that politics was not the context inferred here, but rather beliefs that are seemingly divergent from traditional Orthodoxy and use more...fiery arguementation.
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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2006, 01:00:08 AM »

Hi Everyone,
I want to post a question, but I don't want it to turn into an angry debate, I don't want to introduce discord into this forum, but I would just like to get some opinions.  I read another forum, but post very infrequently.  I shouldn't even read it, because I generally find it depressing and full of some very angry stuff (yes, it is an Orthodox forum.)  However, recently there have been posts linking to "Illuminati" sites, Protocols of the Elders of Zion, crop circles, you get the idea.  To my shock, people defend this sort of stuff.  I am NOT talking about valid criticism of Israel, or anything like that.  I'm refering to very "out there" sites, for example, I found out tonight that Bill Frist is the Antichrist, I'm always the last to know!!

I have no idea whether the people posting are Orthodox Christians or not.  I guess my question is: have really wacko types just found a forum where their posts are not *universally* attacked, or do you find a lot of younger Orthodox buy into this stuff?  I can't understand why the moderators allow this, but who knows?  Some of this is however, really virulent anti-semitism, and I find it upsetting.  I even talked to my priest about this a while back.  Like I said, these are not legitimate concerns that are being posted, but just very thinly disguised hatred.

Suzannes,

I would venture to suggest that for some time certain people within Orthodoxy have been increasingly influenced and infected by neo-Protestantism Fundamentalism. This could have been transported by the influx of converts from that sector who haven't been able to shake off their earlier mindsets.

You might find the following article by Bishop Auxentios of Photiki interesting...

http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles2/PhotikiHarryPotter.shtml

Lord have mercy on me, a sinner

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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2006, 01:14:59 AM »

Quote
would venture to suggest that for some time certain people within Orthodoxy have been increasingly influenced and infected by neo-Protestantism Fundamentalism. This could have been transported by the influx of converts from that sector who haven't been able to shake off their earlier mindsets.

And yet the sources that these people quote--the sources who are teaching them to believe in the Protocols of Zion and whatnot--are cradle Orthodox... and what's more are Orthodox Saints. Why don't you go over to the Euphrosynos Cafe and similar sites, and there you can find out how many revered saints believe this stuff that you wish to attribute to crazy converts.

Btw, before asking God to have mercy on you, why don't you try to stop generalizing and arrogantly judging entire groups of people? God's forgiveness would probably come quicker that way.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2006, 01:19:42 AM by Asteriktos » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2006, 01:31:32 AM »

And yet the sources that these people quote--the sources who are teaching them to believe in the Protocols of Zion and whatnot--are cradle Orthodox... and what's more are Orthodox Saints. Why don't you go over to the Euphrosynos Cafe and similar sites, and there you can find out how many revered saints believe this stuff that you wish to attribute to crazy converts.

Btw, before asking God to have mercy on you, why don't you try to stop generalizing and arrogantly judging entire groups of people? God's forgiveness would probably come quicker that way.


It was not my intention to generalise or arrogantly judge an entire group of people - and you will notice that this is merely a suggestion that this could have been transported by converts from that sector - the ones who haven't been able to rid themselves of their earlier mindset.

I apologise that this comment has upset you and ask your forgiveness.

However, I will continue to ask God to have mercy on me, because I truly am a sinner and capable of saying and doing the wrong thing just as much as the next person.

Lord have mercy on me, a sinner.
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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2006, 01:48:10 AM »

<many revered saints believe this stuff that you wish to attribute to crazy converts.> This is true - the Holy Bishop Ioann of Leningrad wrote about this in his excellent book - Russian Symphony and Elder Paissios too refers to the Protocols.  Ofcourse mod opinion reviles the authenticity - it ain't PC for many, especially the young. I suppose only time will tell. 
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2006, 02:56:28 AM »

You will find that amongst the Orthodox the entire spectrum of political ideals can be found, from radical communism to radical fascism, from anarchy to monarchy. Ultimately the ideals should be judged on their qualities and their fruits. But that is for you do to, no one can do it for you (and I would be most suspicious of anyone who claims they can). However, if you want to discuss and debate these things the new politics forum would probably be appropriate.

What he said.....

Further comment:
Besides what GiC summarized, keep in mind that the Church is not bound by American political ideals (or any country on this planet's ideals).  For example, some Republican views are likely consonant with Orthodoxy, some Democrat ideals, some Green, some Libertarian and so forth.  Now, it is up to us to figure out which is appropriate of each party.....which is the difficult part.

Additionally, more to the point....as to St/Elder/Father so and so advocating a view on some controversial topic (e.g. Elders of the Protocols of Zion), SO....WHAT!  Just because they are a Saint/Elder/Father doesn't mean they aren't wrong about a topic/advice/etc.  They are fallible sinful human beings like the rest of us.  Consider that perspective and where they grew up.  As my priest said when I mentioned the view of a Palestinian friend of mine, "It's in his blood...he can't help it."  While not 100% true, he has a point - these "cradles" grew up with a certain world view that is ingrained in them because of their culture.  It is something that is hard for them to overcome (if it is something that they are passionate about/wrong/misinformed/whatever). 
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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2006, 07:07:38 AM »

St/Elder/Father so and so advocating a view on some controversial topic (e.g. Elders of the Protocols of Zion), SO....WHAT! 
The book's title is actually "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and is actually a piece of cr*p thought up by some russian nutjobs and supposedly presents the protocols of the supposed "master plan" of the supposed "elders" of the supposed "jewish conspiracy". The Russian peasantry seem to love these conspiracy theories. Personally, I would use it as toilet paper rather than read it. It has nothing to do with Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2006, 07:25:30 AM »

And yet the sources that these people quote--the sources who are teaching them to believe in the Protocols of Zion and whatnot--are cradle Orthodox...
No they aren't.
They are cradle schismatics.
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2006, 09:25:55 AM »

Quote
The book's title is actually "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and is actually a piece of cr*p thought up by some russian nutjobs and supposedly presents the protocols of the supposed "master plan" of the supposed "elders" of the supposed "jewish conspiracy". The Russian peasantry seem to love these conspiracy theories. Personally, I would use it as toilet paper rather than read it. It has nothing to do with Orthodoxy.

The Czar had the protocols read every Sunday after service in every Church of the Empire, before his fall, so maybe it has something to do with Orthodoxy: either it is true and the Czar was trying to prevent something ugly from happening, either it is crap and the Czar was using conspiracy measures to have the Jews persecuted.
Eitherway, if you are an Orthodox Christian and know Greek, perhaps you would be interested to read the book on the Protocols of the Elders of Zion by Archimandrite Charalambos Vasilopoulos. It is quite illuminating. I will not comment on whether the protocols are crap or not.
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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2006, 09:28:48 AM »

Quote
Hi Everyone,
I want to post a question, but I don't want it to turn into an angry debate, I don't want to introduce discord into this forum, but I would just like to get some opinions.  I read another forum, but post very infrequently.  I shouldn't even read it, because I generally find it depressing and full of some very angry stuff (yes, it is an Orthodox forum.)  However, recently there have been posts linking to "Illuminati" sites, Protocols of the Elders of Zion, crop circles, you get the idea.  To my shock, people defend this sort of stuff.  I am NOT talking about valid criticism of Israel, or anything like that.  I'm refering to very "out there" sites, for example, I found out tonight that Bill Frist is the Antichrist, I'm always the last to know!!

I have no idea whether the people posting are Orthodox Christians or not.  I guess my question is: have really wacko types just found a forum where their posts are not *universally* attacked, or do you find a lot of younger Orthodox buy into this stuff?  I can't understand why the moderators allow this, but who knows?  Some of this is however, really virulent anti-semitism, and I find it upsetting.  I even talked to my priest about this a while back.  Like I said, these are not legitimate concerns that are being posted, but just very thinly disguised hatred.

Could you direct me to that website?
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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2006, 12:16:39 PM »

Hi Everyone,
I want to post a question, but I don't want it to turn into an angry debate, I don't want to introduce discord into this forum, but I would just like to get some opinions.  I read another forum, but post very infrequently.  I shouldn't even read it, because I generally find it depressing and full of some very angry stuff (yes, it is an Orthodox forum.)  However, recently there have been posts linking to "Illuminati" sites, Protocols of the Elders of Zion, crop circles, you get the idea.  To my shock, people defend this sort of stuff.  I am NOT talking about valid criticism of Israel, or anything like that.  I'm refering to very "out there" sites, for example, I found out tonight that Bill Frist is the Antichrist, I'm always the last to know!!

I have no idea whether the people posting are Orthodox Christians or not.  I guess my question is: have really wacko types just found a forum where their posts are not *universally* attacked, or do you find a lot of younger Orthodox buy into this stuff?  I can't understand why the moderators allow this, but who knows?  Some of this is however, really virulent anti-semitism, and I find it upsetting.  I even talked to my priest about this a while back.  Like I said, these are not legitimate concerns that are being posted, but just very thinly disguised hatred.

Suzannes,

Well, one possitive thing about the forum you are reading is that Bill Frist (whoever he might be) is being accused of being the Anti-Christ. Makes a change from the Pope always receiving the label. Smiley

It's a simple fact that we are all fallible beings and it comes as no surprise to me that we find human fraility within Orthodoxy, though we would wish it otherwise. Afterall, we are all made from the same damaged mould, just with differing defects.

To find hatred anywhere is always very disturbing and for the sake of your own peace of mind, it might be an idea to avoid anywhere that such negativity is prevalent; especially as we approach Lent.

Lord have mercy on me, a sinner.

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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2006, 12:24:17 PM »

Well, one possitive thing about the forum you are reading is that Bill Frist (whoever he might be) is being accused of being the Anti-Christ. Makes a change from the Pope always receiving the label. Smiley

Sen. Bill Frist is our Senate Majority Leader, but how he got the title of 'anti-christ' bestowed upon him I will never know...there are far more controversial figures in American politics.

P.S. Did I mention that these Ideas tend to be particularly popular in Greece, especially amongst the older generations?
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« Reply #18 on: February 12, 2006, 01:40:58 PM »

P.S. Did I mention that these Ideas tend to be particularly popular in Greece, especially amongst the older generations?

You mean the idea that particular American politicians are the Anti-Christ?

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« Reply #19 on: February 12, 2006, 01:44:52 PM »

We're hitting the line where the thread may have to get moved into the politics board...
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« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2006, 01:49:28 PM »

We're hitting the line where the thread may have to get moved into the politics board...

I have no interest in politics. Just wondered what greekischristian meant by his/her comment.

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« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2006, 01:59:27 PM »

You mean the idea that particular American politicians are the Anti-Christ?

I mean consipracy theories in general, whether they're about the Americans or the Jews, or both.
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« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2006, 02:00:40 PM »

We're hitting the line where the thread may have to get moved into the politics board...

Yeah, that's what I said from the beginning. How can any thread that talks about the international Jewish conspiracy and Sen. Frist being the Anti-Christ be anything but political?
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« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2006, 02:10:28 PM »

Yeah, that's what I said from the beginning. How can any thread that talks about the international Jewish conspiracy and Sen. Frist being the Anti-Christ be anything but political?

This is, of course, a good point. Smiley

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« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2006, 03:01:44 PM »

I guess I should give a little more information.  Someone posted "who was behing 9/11 article."  I'll post the link just because I think it better illustrates what troubled me so much, http://www.truthseeker.uk
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« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2006, 03:10:47 PM »



http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/   Sorry about that!  Wrong address.
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« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2006, 03:25:52 PM »

Somehow I messed up my post.  I'm sorry, I guess I hit post by mistake.

I wanted to explain a little bit about this whole thing.  I read a post called "who was really behind 9/11," which is an article on this truthseeker site.  When I questioned it, the poster said something like "why would this site lie?" which is like asking "why would anyone sin?"!!  The Orthodox forum where this appeared has the intention of defending "truth," and I think this just slipped by the moderators.  If you go to the site, you'll see it's they're in X-Files land, with a big dose of hate thrown in.
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« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2006, 03:39:40 PM »

Dear Suzannes, I cannot see how these people are related to anything near Orthodox Christianity, in fact, they are very similar to some of the protestant heretic groups that are ready to cause a global nuclear war in order to force the Second Coming to come ahead of time  Shocked Shocked
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« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2006, 05:01:37 PM »

Suzannes,

I couldn't find the 9/11 article you referred to, but I am still chuckling about the "Was Hitler a "British" Agent?" item. IMHO, that site is fairly represenative of poor souls with some kind of psychiatric disorder. How you found it linked to anything resembling an Orthodox site/forum will probably remain one of the mysteries of all time.

Let's assume for a moment that even if these people have established this site with the very best of intentions (though that's fairly hard to do) it remains nothing more than outrageous and unsubstantiated fear mongering. It would do nothing to encourage or enhance a person's faith.

Conspiracy theories have always been around, and I'm afraid there is going to continue to be this kind of hysteria on the internet. My advice to you is to preserve your own walk with God in peace and leave that site to those who appear to have no hope. Perhaps you could make it a Lenten commitment to pray for the contributors to that site and the people of the Orthodox forum that it is linked from? Only God's grace can eradicate such paranoia and hatred.

God bless you and keep you.

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« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2006, 05:10:47 PM »

The Czar had the protocols read every Sunday after service in every Church of the Empire,

Another myth the peasants like to propagate. Could you provide some evidence for this absurd claim?
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« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2006, 10:11:58 PM »

Sue57/Suzannes

It's not really very nice to slam another site, and then not give a link so that people can make up their own minds whether your criticisms are justified. If you did not want to give a link because you didn't want other Orthodox Christians going there because you think the content is bad, then I can understand that, but it'd still be good to give people a chance to see the other side, no?

Quote
The Orthodox forum where this appeared has the intention of defending "truth," and I think this just slipped by the moderators.

Well I can't speak for Nicholas or John regarding that thread in particular, but I know they do believe in similar conspiracy theories, such as the idea that Communists infiltrated the Catholic Church and that the Jews control the media. Met. Philip of the Antiochians believes that last one as well (I heard him say so on Come Receive the Light)... so you might want to think before casting epithets at people Wink
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« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2006, 11:50:20 PM »

Well, I did read some statements / claims on that site. It is appropriate to call it Nazism, absurd and heresy. But it is not Orthodoxy. No doubts.
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« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2006, 02:14:54 AM »

Quote
P.S. Did I mention that these Ideas tend to be particularly popular in Greece, especially amongst the older generations?

What is even more surprising is how many younger and educated people in Greece buy into the most wild conspiracy theories out there.   
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« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2006, 02:20:48 AM »

[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=8181.msg107203#msg107203 date=1139811294]
What is even more surprising is how many younger and educated people in Greece buy into the most wild conspiracy theories out there.   
[/quote]
Ah, but it takes a russian to invent them in the first place (eg, the Protocols) Wink
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« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2006, 03:48:08 AM »

The flow of racist garbage from Russia to Greece is of course not surprising.  What does intrigue me is the role of Rapture material from America on Greek conspiracy theorists.  Alas the worst parts of American culture seem to get exported to the world.
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2006, 04:05:40 AM »

[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=8181.msg107210#msg107210 date=1139816888]
The flow of racist garbage from Russia to Greece is of course not surprising. [/quote]
Perhaps not surprising to you.....it does surprise me.......Anyway, the fact is: it was Russians who invented the Protocols, unless this will probably be simply another piece of history to be swept under the carpet because it doesn't fit with someone's (tunnel visioned) worldview.

[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=8181.msg107210#msg107210 date=1139816888]What does intrigue me is the role of Rapture material from America on Greek conspiracy theorists.  Alas the worst parts of American culture seem to get exported to the world.[/quote]
I don't see what these crack-pot conspiracy theories about Jews have to do with the uniquely stupid belief in the Rapture.


Edited by George because the original way I worded it sounded awful!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 05:21:25 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2006, 04:46:00 AM »

It's not really very nice to slam another site,
The trouble, I think, is that forums go through "bad patches" and people who see them only during the bad patches form particular opinions based on that brief experience of it's history. The forum in question actually has a long (and IMO, much more noble) history. I think, with patience and perspective (we are talking about a few threads and a few posters) it may come good again.
EDIT: And don't count the number of topics to count the number of threads. A "topic" consisting of a single thread by a single poster who repeatedly posts new topics that no one responds to is not a "thread"!
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 04:52:13 AM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2006, 05:01:37 AM »

Well, speaking as a former moderator and regular participant at the site, I am a bit less optimistic, but I would agree that fora definately go in cycles, and it's not fair to take just one cycle (or one portion of the cycle) and judge the entire forum based on that little segment. Unfortunately, people have been complaining about the forum for years, so it might not just be a problem of a few posters or a few months... but I genuinely like the forum nonetheless, and like the admins (even if they are too picky about formalities like addressing people as "Father," especially when others, and even they themselves, ignore the canons/traditions that say not to publically attack clergy). Anyway, I would consider about 80% of my posts there to be a "bad patch," so maybe I don't have the best perspective on the matter. Smiley
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Optimist: Throw enough ideas at the wall and one is bound to stick.
Pessimist: Throw enough poo at the wall and the room is bound to stink.
Realist: You don't really need to throw things at walls to solve problems.
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« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2006, 05:33:40 AM »

Quote
Another myth the peasants like to propagate. Could you provide some evidence for this absurd claim?

I do not intend to search for evidence, but:
a) if you can understand Greek
b) you believe the elders in Agion Oros are not making anti-semetic claims because of Christianity having a long history with Judaism, then in http://athos.gr/ you can find the conversation in sound format named: "Διάλογος μεταξύ του Γέροντα Ιωσήφ ÃƒÆ’â€žÃŽÂ¿Ãâ€¦ Βατοπαιδινού και ενός Ρώσου επισκέπτη που έλαβε χώρα στις 26.10.2001 στο Άγιο Όρος." which is quite frightening to say the least.
Also, the great Elder Paissios also agreed that the Zionists are in work, more info on that you can find on "Γέροντας ÃŽ ÃƒÆ’ŽÂ±ÃŽÂ¯ÃÆ’ιος ο Αγιορείτης: Μαρτυρίες ÃŽ ÃƒÆ’ÂÃŽÂ¿ÃÆ’κυνητών, εκδόσεις: Αγιοτόκος Καππαδοκία". And that would be enough from my part.
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« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2006, 05:45:49 AM »

Quote
Another myth the peasants like to propagate. Could you provide some evidence for this absurd claim?

I read it a greek newspaper named "Εθνος" (=Nation), which was just like you condemning the text of the Protocols as a fraud, but considered the claim about the Czar having it read every Sunday at Church true.
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« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2006, 05:52:31 AM »

Sorry, none of your links in the website work for me Ntinos. Must be a Jewish conspiracy. Why don't you burn down a synagogue and smash some shop windows in retaliation? And when you've done that, why not try some "Orthodoxy" instead of "Netodoxy"....something radical like, oh, I dunno, visit a monastery and talk to some actual monks, or perhaps attend the Divine Liturgy?
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« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2006, 06:59:47 AM »

Quote
Sorry, none of your links in the website work for me Ntinos. Must be a Jewish conspiracy. Why don't you burn down a synagogue and smash some shop windows in retaliation? And when you've done that, why not try some "Orthodoxy" instead of "Netodoxy"....something radical like, oh, I dunno, visit a monastery and talk to some actual monks, or perhaps attend the Divine Liturgy?

Since it's not working for you, try:
http://www.filefactory.com/get/v3/f2.php?f=740ce575ac335eeca90e272b
if this isn't working, then it's sure gotta be a jewish conspiracy behind... damn  Tongue

The actual text from the side of the russian visitor:
http://www.geocities.com/kitezhgrad/prophets/josvat.html

Oh, do the monks from the monasteries in Australia or the priests during divine Liturgy speak in a similar Christian manner like you?  Angry Angry If so I prefer the monks and the priests in Greece. Too bad the Archbishop here (Athens) keeps talking about... "dark servants of the evil trying to root out Orthodoxy from Greece" and the leftwing parties keep mocking him about it... Grin Grin
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 07:16:24 AM by Ntinos » Logged

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« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2006, 07:15:01 AM »

Believe whatever you wish. I have brought you enough evidence to support the idea that the Church actually does have worries about the jewish influence in the world. Other than that, I can do nothing else, and to be honest I have no need of being mocked and laughed at. If you have evidence of the opposite, then bring it on. Otherwise, the only thing you're doing is mocking and laughing ironically without bringing the slightest clue that excluded the opposite idea. That being said, the only thing your presence offers is a bad example of christian behaviour.
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ozgeorge
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« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2006, 07:23:55 AM »

Since it's not working for you, try:
http://www.filefactory.com/get/v3/f2.php?f=740ce575ac335eeca90e272b
if this isn't working, then it's sure gotta be a jewish conspiracy behind... damn  Tongue
Well, no, I now suspect it is a Bill Gates conspiracy since this website wants me to pay for the download....no thanks!


The actual text from the side of the russian visitor:
http://www.geocities.com/kitezhgrad/prophets/josvat.html
Oh please! Not that website again!!!

Oh, do the monks from the monasteries in Australia or the priests during divine Liturgy speak in a similar Christian manner like you?  Angry Angry If so I prefer the monks and the priests in Greece.  Grin Grin
Do monks and priests in Greece use internet forums to spread anti-semetic nonsense? Well, not the ones I have met on the Holy Mountain, Makri, Nea Makri, Athens, Thessaloniki, Edessa, Florina, Aegina, Rodos, Lesvos, Tinos, Corfu.........
What surprises me Ntinos, is that you don't even realise how silly such conspiracy theories sound when you say them out loud.
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« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2006, 07:30:31 AM »

Quote
Well, no, I now suspect it is a Bill Gates conspiracy since this website wants me to pay for the download....no thanks!

No, it does not require of you to pay anything. What it requires is for you to wait for the estimated time, then click on the "Don't want a premium download? Click here to access our free download links. " then click on the "FileFactory HTTP -- Click here to download" and it downloads just fine. Except of course if you do not have the patience for it to allocate downloading space.

Quote
Oh please! Not that website again!!!

You can just download the above sound file, which is exactly the same. (and even better)

Quote
Do monks and priests in Greece use internet forums to spread anti-semetic nonsense? Well, not the ones I have met on the Holy Mountain, Makri, Nea Makri, Athens, Thessaloniki, Edessa, Florina, Aegina, Rodos, Lesvos, Tinos, Corfu.........

You can watch the local Church channel "ΛΥΧΝΟΣ" (of Orthodoxy) in Patras, in which from time to time priests talk about the Jewish influence in the world, the jewish influence in the former Soviet Union and another great number of heavy issues like the New Order. It's actually the official channel of the Metropolis of Patras, so you cannot blame me for believing what is projected through my direct Church.  Tongue

Quote
What surprises me Ntinos, is that you don't even realise how silly such conspiracy theories sound when you say them out loud.

Perhaps you're thinking too high of yourself, or too low of me. Eithercase, the way you're responding gives me every single right not to consider you credible enough. For the time being, it's not me who's coming up with various excuses in order not to check out the other sides' sources.
The only thing I am doing is believing in what is projected through my Church. The only proof I need to get here is from the Book "ΜΑΡΤΥΡΙΕΣ ÃŽ ÃƒÆ’ŽÂ¡ÃŽÅ¸ÃŽÂ£ÃŽÅ¡ÃŽÂ¥ÃŽÂÃŽâ€”ΤΩΝ - Ο ΓΕΡΟΝΤΑΣ ÃŽ ÃƒÆ’Žâ€˜ÃŽâ„¢ÃŽÂ£ÃŽâ„¢ÃŽÅ¸ÃŽÂ£ Ο ΑΓΙΟΡΕΙΤΗΣ" pages 99-106. The Elder is as clear as it can get, and you can always ask the printing service for the original version of the sound document in which the Elder explains the whole system.
In other words, you're mocking me for following my Church and nothing more...
« Last Edit: February 13, 2006, 07:40:58 AM by Ntinos » Logged

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