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Author Topic: NEWS FLASH  (Read 4680 times) Average Rating: 0
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Mo the Ethio
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« on: February 04, 2006, 02:42:36 PM »

News flash !!!¦nbsp; ¦nbsp;Today , in responce to the Islamic worlds outrage over the resent depictions of the "prophet" Mohammad,¦nbsp; Coca-cola announced it would end a planned publicity campain featuring the prophet in speedos dancing with the coke polar bears.
¦nbsp; On a related note,officials from Amhiser-Busch declined comment about a recall of 50,000 t-shirts to be distributed at this Sundays Superbowl. The shirts allegedly shows Muhammad with a football in one hand and a Budwieser in the other with the caption " I LOVE THIS GAME".
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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2006, 04:40:19 PM »

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/04/syria.cartoon/index.html

Muslim protesters target embassies over cartoons
Fires set at Danish, Norwegian embassies in Syria

Saturday, February 4, 2006; Posted: 2:25 p.m. EST (19:25 GMT)

story.embassy.ap.jpg
Thousands of angry Syrian demonstrators storm the Danish embassy in Damascus Saturday.

DAMASCUS, Syria (CNN) -- Muslim demonstrators in Damascus, Syria, torched the Norwegian Embassy and the building housing Denmark's embassy, because newspapers in those countries had published what they consider blasphemous depictions of Islam's Prophet Mohammed.

Thousands of angry Muslims protested in other cities, including Islamabad, Pakistan; Baghdad, Iraq; Khartoum, Sudan; the Palestinian territories; and Jakarta, Indonesia. (Read about one Danish ambassador's meeting with protesters)

In Damascus, protesters set a bonfire outside the building housing Denmark's embassy, using chairs and furniture stolen from inside. Protesters also clashed with police and shattered windows with stones.

The building also houses the embassies of Sweden and Chile, neither of which are involved in the dispute.

Sweden's ambassador to Syria, Catharina Kipp, said no staff members were inside the building, because everyone is on holiday.

Norwegian ambassador to Syria, Svein Sevj, confirmed the fire but said the embassy staff was safe. He said the embassy had asked Syria for more security but did not receive it.

Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, Indonesia's president, said Saturday his "government condemns the publication" of the drawings but urged calm.

"The government can understand reactions and protests among the people against the publication of these caricatures. However, as religious people, we should accept the apologies of the Danish government," he said.

On Friday Pakistan's government unanimously passed a resolution condemning the cartoons. (Full story)

A dozen caricatures of the prophet originally appeared in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten in September. The Muslims consider some of the images particularly demeaning, including one of the Prophet Mohammed wearing a turban shaped like a bomb with a lit fuse.

The drawings accompanied an article about the illustrator of a Danish book on the life of Mohammed. According to the article, the illustrator had demanded to remain anonymous, because the book's cover depicted the prophet.

Jyllands-Posten has apologized, and the Danish government has expressed regret for the furor, but refused to become involved, citing freedom of expression.

Since the publication of the story and the drawings, other European newspapers have also ran the story and drawings, characterizing their publication as a matter of free speech.

Islamic law bans any depiction of the prophet, and Muslims consider the act blasphemous.

In a strongly worded statement, a U.S. State Department spokesman said Friday that, despite respect for the freedom of expression, the publication of cartoons that incite religious or ethnic hatreds is unacceptable.

The Vatican also weighed in Saturday, saying freedom "cannot imply the right to offend" religious faiths, but emphasized "violent actions of protest are deplorable."

The Vatican said a government should not be held responsible for actions of a newspaper. However, authorities "could and must, eventually, intervene according to the principals of the national legislation," the Vatican added.

CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons out of respect for Islam.
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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2006, 04:46:03 PM »

There are charicatures of our leaders, bishops, and our Christ, but we don't get into mobs and burn embassies over it.  Violence permeates every bit of Islam; their belief (like ours) in progressive revelation is what makes them a threat (the later parts of the Quran are violent, the earlier parts peaceful) and us not (because the later parts of the Bible tell us that Love is most important).
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2006, 05:01:57 PM »

There are charicatures of our leaders, bishops, and our Christ, but we don't get into mobs and burn embassies over it.  Violence permeates every bit of Islam; their belief (like ours) in progressive revelation is what makes them a threat (the later parts of the Quran are violent, the earlier parts peaceful) and us not (because the later parts of the Bible tell us that Love is most important).


Haven't you heard? Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance. I've heard it on the news, and read it on the Internet, so it must be true.
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2006, 05:23:05 PM »

I, too, believe everything I hear on the news and read in print media.  Oh, and the Internet - more important than the bible!

I think the Liturgy says best what my only recourse is for militant Islam (which is most of Islam, despite the propoganda):

I will love you, Lord, my strength.  The Lord is my rock and my refuge and my deliverer.
Αγαπήσω σε Κύριε η ισχύς μου.  Κύριος στερέωμά μου και καταφυγή μου και ρύστης μου.
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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2006, 05:32:27 PM »

There are charicatures of our leaders, bishops, and our Christ, but we don't get into mobs and burn embassies over it. 
Remember the screening of "The Last Temptation of Christ" in Greece? Mobs carrying crosses and Icons erupted into violence towards people going to see the film, and I remember seeing a man being bashed over the head with a large Icon of the Pantocrator!.....an example of "militant Orthodoxy"?.....
« Last Edit: February 04, 2006, 06:47:11 PM by ozgeorge » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2006, 08:40:02 PM »

Quote
Mobs carrying crosses and Icons erupted into violence towards people going to see the film, and I remember seeing a man being bashed over the head with a large Icon of the Pantocrator!.....an example of "militant Orthodoxy"?.....

Not much different than when the Greeks marched with priests, icons and incence over the name of the Republic of Macedonia.  Maybe it's just Greeks.   
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« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2006, 08:44:48 PM »

Remember the screening of "The Last Temptation of Christ" in Greece?

Actually, no, I don't remember - I'm too young to.  Although I find that a humorous comparison: here we have a movie in a majority Orthodox nation that they found objectionable and didn't want - but should have been allowed, because of free speech.  On the other hand, Moslems burning embassies of other countries who published charicatures in their own countries (not in the moslem ones) seems a bit different... I don't know how...

Maybe it is just the Greeks, who knows?  Of course, the Gospels don't say anything about killing the infidel, so I suppose I'm just interpreting the actions of the one group differently than the other, despite their apparent similarities.
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« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2006, 12:47:17 AM »

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/04/syria.cartoon/index.html

Muslim protesters target embassies over cartoons
Fires set at Danish, Norwegian embassies in Syria



CNN has chosen to not show the cartoons out of respect for Islam.
RESPECT?!!!...Their scared SH*TLESS to show these images. I say ( somebody`s gonna steal my idea and make a fortune) we make up t-shirts ( the one with the bomb on his head ) . That would be a big seller where I`m from , all the way down to Texas!!!!!
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« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2006, 01:00:31 AM »

Well, I don't know about publicizing our distaste for them.  it's one thing to be bold and stand up for the truth, another to mock them for no other reason than some sort of adolescent superiority.

(But the kid in me says "I'll buy 20!")
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« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2006, 02:58:53 AM »

RESPECT?!!!...Their scared SH*TLESS to show these images. I say ( somebody`s gonna steal my idea and make a fortune) we make up t-shirts ( the one with the bomb on his head ) . That would be a big seller where I`m from , all the way down to Texas!!!!!

Can someone tell me where I can see the cartoons everyone is talking about.  I didn't see them.   And the idea about the T-Shirts . . . I like that idea.  I'll have to design one.
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« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2006, 03:02:10 AM »

Too late dude..my Lawyer and I have already patented the idea.Really , no joke.
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« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2006, 03:07:12 AM »

Too late dude..my Lawyer and I have already patented the idea.Really , no joke.

Can I have distribution rights?
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« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2006, 03:09:31 AM »

Too late dude..my Lawyer and I have already patented the idea.Really , no joke.

Maybe you should get another lawyer.  You don't need a patent for a T-Shirt design, you need a copyright and/or trademark.  I have done some legal work on my own cases, maybe I can represent you?
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« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2006, 06:08:49 AM »

Hi all!

No Muslim is forced to buy any of the publications that have carried the cartoons; what one doesn't like, one need not buy or read..

None of the Islamic countries in which European diplomats have been summoned to the countries' foreign ministries, or in which European embassies have been burned, have anything remotely approaching a free press. The very idea is alien in many parts of the world.

Nobody in these Islamic countries complains very much when official/semi-official media (print & electronic) in these countries regularly run the crudest anti-Jewish and anti-Christian garbage. Go to http://www.memri.org/ & run a search on the terms "Christians" and Jews" and see what wholesome stuff you come up with. Also see http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/arabantoc.html.

Wouldn't the shootings, bombings & massacres of the kind we have seen in New York, Arlington, London, Beslan, Bali, Kossovo, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, and against churches in Iraq, Pakistan and Indonesia, etc., etc. be far more of a desecration & an unholy act that these cartoons? If the same masses who are marching throughout the Islamic world to protest the cartoons (to say nothing of burning embassies) would have similarly marched after the aforementioned shootings, bombings & massacres (or in protest against the anti-Jewish & anti-Christian garbage that are staples of the official and semi-official media in so much of the Arab world), I'd probably be inclined to take Islamic criticism of the cartoons more seriously.

As offensive as many Christians found Scorsese's The Last Temptation of Christ, I don't recall that eiher Martin Scorsese or Willem Dafoe was forced to go underground (a la Salman Rushdie) in fear for their lives from Christian extremists.

An Anglican cyberfriend of mine on another board wrote: "I am bemused by how fragile your God and your prophet are, that they can be so easily defiled. Mine cannot be touched. And I think if you took a moment to think about it, you would realise that yours cannot either."

She is absolutely right.

The cartoons may have been in insensitive & in poor taste but this in no way justifies burning embassies, etc.

Be well!

MBZ
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« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2006, 07:40:44 AM »

Amen and Amen MBZ.  Unfortunately, hypocracy is not a charge that will phase the Moselms; there is no reason for them to feel ashamed at the disparity between standards.
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« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2006, 11:58:41 AM »

Hi Cleveland!

Well said!

So...from the English website of the Israeli daily Ha'aretz:

Quote
European Islamists post cartoons depicting Anne Frank, Hitler in bed

by News Agencies

A Belgian-Dutch Islamic political organization posted anti-Jewish cartoons on its Web site in response to the cartoons of the prophet Mohammed that appeared in Danish papers last year and offended many Muslims.

The cartoons were posted on the Arab European League's site on Saturday. It was not working Sunday morning because of exceeded bandwidth.

(...).

One of the AEL cartoons displayed an image of Dutch Holocaust victim Anne Frank in bed with Adolf Hitler, and another questioned whether the Holocaust actually occurred.

(cont.)

Link: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/678639.html

You know what?

Not only am I not offended, but I couldn't care less. This is beneath my notice.

Zzzz...

Be well!

MBZ
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« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2006, 12:16:02 PM »

Oh, that's real nice of them - the tit-for-tat for Moslems will continue to escalate; they will always feel the need (justified by their unholy pseudo-scripture) to violently oppose all those who believe differently.
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« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2006, 12:32:36 PM »

I would not want to endorse the cartoon outright, since I'm generally against offending people if it can be helped, especially when the offense is given just so something completely unnecessary like a cartoon can be published. I mean, to offend with religious beliefs because you sincerely believe them is one thing, but to offend with a cartoon just because you want to be irreverent is another. On the other hand, given the population shifts that are projected over the next 50 years, and given the way that Muslims have begun to test the limits of European tolerance(British Muslims saying outrageous and hateful things, riots in France, etc.), I'm glad that some Europeans are standing up to the over-reacting Muslims. So far as I know, no nation in history ever became Muslim through peaceful means; I hope they see the danger.
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« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2006, 03:59:05 PM »

So far as I know, no nation in history ever became Muslim through peaceful means; I hope they see the danger.   

I don't know about Indonesia, but as for the rest of the Moslem world, you're absolutely right.  Granted, it is not good to insult them just for that purpose; a very un-Christ-like act indeed.  And there should be some direction to them (on a spiritual level) of how damaging that can be.  But, when it comes down to it, you've got "to call a spade a spade;" in our world, we might make fun, but we don't burn embassies.  In their world, on the other hand... totally different.
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« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2006, 08:29:14 AM »

Lets not forget the burning of Churches in Alabama and stabbings inside of a synagogue in Russia by Russian Orthodox Christians.

Lets not forget in Kosovo where Mosques and Churches were under attack.

Hatred and Violence has to end and stop using God as a weapon before Satan breaks out the beer and cakes!

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« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2006, 09:34:06 AM »

Hatred and Violence has to end and stop using God as a weapon before Satan breaks out the beer and cakes!
Amen!
Evil is parasitic- it has no existence in itself, but rather draws being from hearts of flesh. What better way for Satan to pave his way into the world through our hearts than by convincing us that our hatred of our enemies is "godly", when Our Lord clearly said it isn't?
I'm starting to think we need something of a "mass-exorcism" in our world today!
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« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2006, 09:37:04 AM »

Hi all

I found an article that a Church father wrote based on the news article here....
Quote
  ISLAM AND THE WEST: TOWARDS AN ANTI-CIVILIZATION


A sorry tale of sorry plans,
Which this conclusion grants,
That Afghan clans had all the khans
And we had all the can’ts.

On Lieutenant Eyre’s Narrative of the Disaster of Cabul
Thomas Hood (1799-1845)


At the present time, the media of Western Europe are filled with controversy about anti-Muslim cartoons, originating in Denmark and now widely published elsewhere in Western Europe. These have deeply offended Muslim sensibilities worldwide.
http://www.orthodoxengland.btinternet.co.uk/islamwes.htm

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« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2006, 10:29:13 AM »

A 'dangerous moment' for Europe and Islam 
By Alan Cowell The New York Times

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 7, 2006
 
LONDON As Islamic protests grew against the publication in Europe of cartoons lampooning the Prophet Muhammad, a small Arab movement active in Belgium, the Netherlands and Denmark responded with a drawing on its Web site of Hitler in bed with Anne Frank. "Write this one in your diary, Anne," Hitler was shown as saying.

The intent of the cartoon, the Arab European League said, was "to use our right to artistic expression" just as the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten did when it published a group of cartoons showing Muhammad last September. "Europe has its sacred cows, even if they're not religious sacred cows," said Dyab Abou Jahjah, the founder of the organization, which claims rights for immigrants aggressively but without violence.

Such contrasts have produced a worrisome sense that the conflict over the cartoons has pushed both sides across an unexpected threshold, where they view each other with miscomprehension and suspicion. "This feels to me like a defining moment," said Timothy Garton Ash, an Oxford professor of European history. "It is a crunch time for Europe and Islam," he said, "it is an extremely dangerous moment," one that could lead to "a downward spiral of mutual perceptions, and not just between extremists."

As often violent protests against the cartoons and attacks on Danish diplomatic missions have spread to the Middle East, Afghanistan, Pakistan and elsewhere, some Europeans have come to realize that relatively small Muslim minorities - 3 percent of the population in Britain, 4 percent in Denmark, and around 5 percent in the European Union as a whole - wield a hitherto untapped power from across the Islamic world.

"No longer is the issue merely that of belittling an immigrant group," wrote Jürgen Gottschlich, a German journalist based in Istanbul. "Just as there are heroes of free speech in Denmark, there are also heroes - from the Arabian Peninsula to North Africa to Indonesia - who are ready to take to the barricades to defend their prophet's dignity."

Ibrahim Magdy, a 39-year-old Egyptian Coptic Christian who runs a florist business in Rome, said, "The problem now is that when you say something or do something you are not just talking to the Egyptians or to the Syrians or to the Saudis, but you are talking to the entire Muslim world."

For some people in Europe, the cartoons precipitated a profound debate about freedom of expression and the supposed double standards that affect Muslims and Christians at many levels in Europe. For others, the spreading protest against the cartoons signified a hardening of extremes that left little room for moderate voices. "The moderate Muslim has again been effectively silenced," said Tabish Khair, a professor of English at the University of Aarhus in Denmark.

For decades European nations have wrestled with an influx of immigrants who came for economic and political reasons primarily from lands where Islam is the dominant faith. Many Muslim immigrants feel they have never been fully welcomed.

But the catalogue of Islamic terror - from the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States to the March 2004 bombings in Madrid and the July 2005 London attacks - has challenged governments and societies to distinguish between moderates and such extremists as the four British-born Muslims who killed themselves and 52 other people in the attacks on London's transport system.

Ostensibly, said Garton Ash, the clash has pitted two sets of values against one another - freedom of expression and multiculturalism - with the latter demanded of societies in which Muslim immigrant populations, initially seen as a temporary labor force in the 1960s, have become permanent and expanding.

But beyond that, there is a seething resentment among some Muslims that they are treated as second-class citizens and potential terrorists in lands that deny the importance of their faith, even though the number of Muslims in Europe totals 20 million, and possibly many more.

"If you have black hair it is really difficult to find a job," said Muhammad Elzjahim, 22, a construction worker of Palestinian descent whose parents moved to Denmark when he was 2 and who said he studied dental engineering for three and a half years only to find that "it was for nothing because I couldn't find a job in my field."

That mistrust is mirrored by a gnawing sense among some Europeans that their plump welfare states have come to host an unwelcome minority that does not share their values and may even represent a fifth column of potential insurgents, who project themselves as the victims of Islamophobia and discrimination in housing, jobs and social status.

"The radicals don't want an agreement, they don't want the round table," said Rainer Mion, 44, an insurance agent in Berlin. "What they want is to spread their Islamic beliefs all over the world."

Giulio Cordese, 50, a salesman in an Italian delicatessen in Berlin, added: "We have to make a point here. Personally, I would expel all Muslims in the concerned countries. Because they simply don't accept democratic rules here."

But that goes to the core of the debate: Which rules apply to which people?

In London on Tuesday, Abu Hamza al-Masri, an Egyptian cleric who is also wanted in the United States on terrorism charges, was sentenced to seven years for incitement to murder in public speeches. Five days earlier, Nick Griffin, head of the hard-right and anti-immigrant British National Party, was acquitted on race hate charges relating to alleged assaults on Islam as a "vicious, wicked faith."

The different outcomes provoked fresh accusations that British justice - like British society, by this argument - discriminates against Muslims. "We seem to have different standards when we deal with these issues from different communities," said Massoud Shadjareh, head of London's Islamic Human Rights Commission.

Flemming Rose, the culture editor of Jyllands-Posten, the Danish newspaper that published the cartoons, insisted in an interview last week that his interest in publishing them lay solely in asserting the right to free speech over religious taboos.

"When Muslims say you are not showing respect, I would say: you are not asking for my respect, you are asking for my submission," he said.

That apprehension was echoed in an editorial in the Dutch newspaper NRC Handelsblad that said: "In America, few people fear that they will have to live according to the norms of Islam. In European countries, with a large or growing Muslim minority, there is a real fear that behind the demand for respect hides another agenda: the threat that everyone must adjust to the rules of Islam."

In response, some fear that it is European values and freedoms that are under direct threat.

In 2000, Islamic pressure was held responsible in the Netherlands and Belgium for the cancellation of an opera about Aisha, the youngest wife of Muhammad. In 2005, a Moroccan-Dutch painter, Rachid Ben Ali, went into hiding after death threats related to an exhibit showing "hate-imams" spitting bombs. And in 2004 the filmmaker Theo van Gogh was killed for committing what his confessed killer called blasphemy in a film called "Submission" about violence against Muslim women.

In the Netherlands, where the population of 16 million includes a million Muslims, some people have taken to wondering whether their secular values can guarantee social peace. In earlier periods of European history, NRC Handelsblad said, "a small religious dispute could lead to large- or small-scale wars. The Muslim immigration has thrown Europe back to the religious conflicts of the past."

In Britain, some analysts argue that the government of Tony Blair has shown itself ready to promote self-censorship when dealing with Islamic extremism in the interests of averting further terrorist attacks. "Islam is protected by an invisible blasphemy law," said Jasper Gerard, a columnist in The Sunday Times of London. "It is called fear."

In some assessments, the situation rewards those at the extremes. "Islamic fundamentalists and European right-wingers both enjoy a veritable gift that can be used to ignite fire after fire," said Janne Haaland-Matlary, professor of international relations and former deputy foreign minister of Norway.

In Germany, the memory of Nazism has ensured a degree of caution. "We must de-escalate the situation," said Ayyub Axel Koehler, a converted Muslim who heads the Central Council of Muslims in Germany. "It might be easier to do that in Germany than in other countries. This is an experience we've had in Germany before, so we understand the dangers."

---

Reporting was contributed by Marlise Simons in Paris; Mark Landler and Petra Kappl in Frankfurt; Victor Homola and Sarah Plass in Berlin; Renwick McLean in Madrid; Elisabetta Povoledo in Milan; Peter Kiefer in Rome; and Ivar Ekman in Copenhagen.
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StephenG
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« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2006, 08:00:54 PM »

I am split. Twelve cartoons and twelve dead so far, across the world. Not all protests have been either violent or abusive, either. However, I know I cringe at the outrageous caricatures and jokes, etc., made about all things sacred to Christian and the all too often supine response of Christians - some even seen to enjoy them. Both the indifferent acceptance of supposed 'Christians and the violence and threats of the unacceptable face of Islam appear unacceptable.

Does freedom of speech mean an absence of either responsibility or regard for that held sacred by others? Or responsibility?
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« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2006, 09:34:26 PM »

Stephen, while the answer to your question is undoubtably "no," there should be the additional question "does outrage, even of the most fervent and religious kind, warrant the gathering of masses and destruction of life?"

From the Christian perspective, we know the answer to that; for the Moslem perspective, their actions speak much louder than words.
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« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2006, 09:58:05 PM »

Ibrahim Magdy, a 39-year-old Egyptian Coptic Christian who runs a florist business in Rome, said, "The problem now is that when you say something or do something you are not just talking to the Egyptians or to the Syrians or to the Saudis, but you are talking to the entire Muslim world."
Nice to see an accurate reference to a person my a mainstream media source.

For decades European nations have wrestled with an influx of immigrants who came for economic and political reasons primarily from lands where Islam is the dominant faith. Many Muslim immigrants feel they have never been fully welcomed.

But the catalogue of Islamic terror - from the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in the United States to the March 2004 bombings in Madrid and the July 2005 London attacks - has challenged governments and societies to distinguish between moderates and such extremists as the four British-born Muslims who killed themselves and 52 other people in the attacks on London's transport system.

Ostensibly, said Garton Ash, the clash has pitted two sets of values against one another - freedom of expression and multiculturalism - with the latter demanded of societies in which Muslim immigrant populations, initially seen as a temporary labor force in the 1960s, have become permanent and expanding.

But beyond that, there is a seething resentment among some Muslims that they are treated as second-class citizens and potential terrorists in lands that deny the importance of their faith, even though the number of Muslims in Europe totals 20 million, and possibly many more.

"If you have black hair it is really difficult to find a job," said Muhammad Elzjahim, 22, a construction worker of Palestinian descent whose parents moved to Denmark when he was 2 and who said he studied dental engineering for three and a half years only to find that "it was for nothing because I couldn't find a job in my field."

That mistrust is mirrored by a gnawing sense among some Europeans that their plump welfare states have come to host an unwelcome minority that does not share their values and may even represent a fifth column of potential insurgents, who project themselves as the victims of Islamophobia and discrimination in housing, jobs and social status.

"The radicals don't want an agreement, they don't want the round table," said Rainer Mion, 44, an insurance agent in Berlin. "What they want is to spread their Islamic beliefs all over the world."

Giulio Cordese, 50, a salesman in an Italian delicatessen in Berlin, added: "We have to make a point here. Personally, I would expel all Muslims in the concerned countries. Because they simply don't accept democratic rules here."
The time for immigration to European countries from the east - especially the Arabic world must end - for their (Europe's) own survival.  The guests are rebelling against the hosts.

I think am being forced to agree with those that want immigration quotas.

Flemming Rose, the culture editor of Jyllands-Posten, the Danish newspaper that published the cartoons, insisted in an interview last week that his interest in publishing them lay solely in asserting the right to free speech over religious taboos.

"When Muslims say you are not showing respect, I would say: you are not asking for my respect, you are asking for my submission," he said.
The last point says it the best though.  Remember it and don't forget it people.
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« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2006, 01:34:44 AM »



i think that it's kind of funny that the muslims get upset over a cartoon that makes fun of them being militant and violent, and then they get their m16's that were just about their houses and go to the embacy's and start burning and killing, in no way is the cartoon accurate is it?

glory be to god +
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« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2006, 01:35:24 AM »

i think that it's kind of funny that the Muslims get upset over a cartoon that makes fun of them being militant and violent, and then they get their m16's that were just about their houses and go to the embassy's and start burning and killing, in no way is the cartoon accurate is it?

glory be to god +
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« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2006, 12:01:49 PM »

What does "|nbsp" mean?
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« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2006, 12:29:19 PM »

What does "|nbsp" mean?

Not sure, but it is some type of code that has to do with editing/paragraph/indentation/grammar, probably from pasted in text from another format - maybe HTML.
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« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2006, 12:29:31 PM »

nbsp means non-breaking space, and is web-code that should be in the background, but somehow sometimes pops up when the system is a little buggy...
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« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2006, 01:34:48 PM »

What does "|nbsp" mean?

Yeah!  I was wondering the same thing.
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« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2006, 01:49:28 PM »

to further clarify, the non-breaking space character is used to tell the browser to make a spacebar-like space in the text without starting a new line... normally, if you are typing text to be displayed like this paragraph, anyplace where you have spaces, no matter how many in a row (like maybe 10 ->          ) it will be displayed as one space, especially with HTML code.  But a nbsp code (in HTML it gets an & before and a ; after to make it code) allows more than one space without breaking the line.
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« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2006, 04:56:03 PM »

Hi all!

Whatever happened to the good old days when "cartoon violence" meant Wile E. Coyote trying to drop an anvil on the Roadrunner?

*Sigh*

I saw this in the weekend International Herald Tribune:

Quote
Europe Can Take Pride in Defending Cartoons

By ROGER COHEN

International Herald Tribune

What should we call it? Anti-Denmarkism? Or anti-Danism? The fact is Denmark, with its bike-riding commuters and sensible social democracy, its dairy farms and Lego factory, never figured much in the hatred stakes. The right expression is elusive.

But I suppose one will have to be found now that four months of global gestation have birthed a cartoon conflagration offering proof, if any were needed, that something is rotten in the state of the world.

Of course, problems arising from perceived insults to the Prophet Muhammad are nothing new since political Islam entered its current effervescence. It was precisely on this charge, in 1989, that the author Salman Rushdie earned Ayatollah Khomeini's fatwa calling on "zealous Muslims" to kill him.

Still the fact that a dozen cartoons - drawings, really - of the Prophet Muhammad that appeared in the Danish daily Jyllands-Posten on Sept. 30, 2005, have led in these early weeks of 2006 to a dozen deaths in Afghanistan, the burning of the Danish Embassy in Beirut, riots in Gaza and appeals for calm from the White House, suggests the rising anger between the West and the Islamic world.

Yes, anger. Western societies are increasingly exasperated at seeing the Muslim perpetrators of suicide bombings, beheadings and other violence against "infidels" or "apostates" justified or sanctified through references to Islamic texts, be they the Koran itself or the traditions of the Prophet.

These societies are ever more dismayed when they see Islamic radicals, be they from Al Qaeda or agents of Iran's permanent theocratic revolution, claiming to represent a more authentic or pure Islam than the great mass of moderate Muslims. And they wonder why that great mass seems so passive before this affront.

The West, particularly Europe, is also angry that some of the essential liberties and principles of its way of life - not least the equality of men and women, the rights of homosexuals and freedom of speech - appear unacceptable to some of the growing but estranged Islamic communities in their midst.

The compatibility of a Western liberal, democratic society and Islam as a source of law is widely questioned, especially when the thuggery of a male street mob is a frequent expression of the political manipulation of that law.

As for the Islamic world, particularly in the Middle East, its accumulated frustrations of a post-colonial period marked generally by the imposition of the sorts of brutal one-party states defeated in Europe either in 1945 or 1989 have been sharpened by the West's occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq.

At some level, these Western invasions have revived the age-old confrontation between the Caliphate and Christendom, first experienced in Islam's initial period of expansion into Spain and other parts of Europe, later in defense against the Crusades.

The defense of a notion of pure Islam and Shariah law against what are portrayed as the modernizing and corrupting force of a valueless West identified with the United States, Israel and now Europe has become a powerful jihadist rallying cry.

Of course, it did not take the West's arrival in Afghanistan and Iraq to ignite these sentiments: the attack of Sept. 11, 2001, is proof of that. But the challenge of these inchoate democratic models to the repressive societies bordering them has provoked growing ferment.

Spontaneous demonstrations are an oxymoron in Syria: The holy outrage over the cartoons in the streets of Damascus reveals the lengths to which a regime that once massacred members of the Muslim Brotherhood will go. In Iran, and in the Gaza and West Bank of Hamas, the public fury is also one measure of political unease.

All this restiveness is naturally projected into the Muslim communities of Europe, whose sense of exclusion, justified perception of prejudice and under-representation in politics have produced strong resentments.

It is against this backdrop that the decision of Jyllands-Posten, and later other European papers, to publish the depictions of Muhammad must be seen. If the initial publication was a provocation, it was also a willed one, an act of defiance, a statement that Europe will not be cowed by fear into putting such sacrilegious images off limits.

As Denmark's principled prime minister, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, has put it: "I will never accept that respect for a religious stance leads to the curtailment of criticism, humor and satire in the press."

Rasmussen is right; Europe has to make clear where it stands on its freedoms. And what, say critics, of anti-Semitic cartoons, or insulting depictions of Roma? Why are they not published, too? Are images offensive to Muslims not just a reflection of Europe's disdain for Islam?

These arguments might carry more weight if radical Islam were not one of the most potent global forces today, its fanatical followers invoking precisely the words or traditions of the Prophet to justify heinous acts.

By what right can such acts, and their supposed holy inspiration, be ruled unfit material for the political caricaturist or satirist? If moderate Muslims will not rise in unison against this abuse of their religion, it is inevitable that Western observers will seek to express their unease.

And what is to be made of all this outrage emanating from Arab societies where the caricaturing of the Jew is commonplace, the anti-Semitic tract "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" finds wide credence, and certain media regularly express the view that the Holocaust never happened, or was exaggerated, or was a deserved fate for the Jews?

Repressive Middle East regimes have endured in part through such manipulation of their people's ire. In many respects, this outcry is just another example. It is precisely because the difficult Afghan and Iraqi experiments are also attempts to show respect for different religious and ethnic groups that they are creating such disquiet.

Part of that anger has now been channeled into Danish-inspired Muslim anti-Europeanism. But the burning of EU flags, rather than the Stars and Stripes, should be a source of pride to Europeans. It suggests that Europe stands for something after all.

Be well!

MBZ
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« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2006, 01:23:35 AM »

As a matter of interest, does anyone know what the estimated Mulsim population in the States is?
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« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2006, 01:32:47 AM »

Quote
i think that it's kind of funny that the muslims get upset over a cartoon that makes fun of them being militant and violent, and then they get their m16's that were just about their houses and go to the embacy's and start burning and killing, in no way is the cartoon accurate is it?

glory be to god +

Religion of Peace... Grin
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« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2006, 01:41:02 AM »

As a matter of interest, does anyone know what the estimated Mulsim population in the States is?

1.6 million

See http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html
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« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2006, 02:36:19 AM »

Thanks Bizzlebin.

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« Reply #39 on: February 18, 2006, 05:30:52 PM »

Hi all!

Check http://www.supportdenmark.com/ out!

Be well!

MBZ
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« Reply #40 on: February 18, 2006, 05:35:52 PM »

Nice site, good cause.
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« Reply #41 on: February 18, 2006, 07:11:27 PM »

Perhaps this was already stated but: Does anyone know how the Turks or the Turkish government have responded?
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