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Author Topic: Homeschool VS Public School  (Read 68310 times) Average Rating: 1
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Opus118
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« Reply #630 on: June 09, 2013, 09:46:54 PM »

This isn't hard to find guys.  Google "homeschool outcomes" and you'll find plenty of studies that reinforce the good of homeschooling.

No it isn't easy, I tried. Post the individual studies. I do not have the time to invest in your topic of interest. I already posted two studies for you that you should have immediately cited in you posts. It is now your turn to back up what you are saying.

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« Reply #631 on: June 09, 2013, 09:50:16 PM »

This isn't hard to find guys.  Google "homeschool outcomes" and you'll find plenty of studies that reinforce the good of homeschooling.

No it isn't easy, I tried. Post the individual studies. I do not have the time to invest in your topic of interest. I already posted two studies for you that you should have immediately cited in you posts. It is now your turn to back up what you are saying.



Uh, the study you posted showed that Homeschooled students have composite ACT scores higher than private and public schooled students.  You've already done a great job proving my point!  Thank you.
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« Reply #632 on: June 09, 2013, 10:08:14 PM »

http://www.homelifeacademy.com/homeschooling_statistics.aspx

Scroll down to II. State Deparment of Education Statistics on Homeschoolers - it shows partial results of Department of Education studies for the states of Tennessee, Alaska, Oregon, North Carolina, Arkansas, Arizona, and Nebraska with references.

Homeschool students excelled in the 7 studies done by these 7 states.

There is also information at the same place on studies done in local school districts that showed the same results.  These are probably better as the children would tend to be from similar socio-economic backgrounds, and as expected, home-schooled children scored better on average.
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« Reply #633 on: June 09, 2013, 11:08:21 PM »

This isn't hard to find guys.  Google "homeschool outcomes" and you'll find plenty of studies that reinforce the good of homeschooling.

No it isn't easy, I tried. Post the individual studies. I do not have the time to invest in your topic of interest. I already posted two studies for you that you should have immediately cited in you posts. It is now your turn to back up what you are saying.



Uh, the study you posted showed that Homeschooled students have composite ACT scores higher than private and public schooled students.  You've already done a great job proving my point!  Thank you.

I am not trying to prove anyone's points. I am just trying to get the facts out there. I posted the non-peer reviewed article because it would be accessible, but I read the underlying article.

My issue is your post:

There is what you might call propaganda, or misinformation at worst, but I would consider as lies that shouldn't have been stated with a modest amount of research and judgement.

Rephrase it. Put in the science and mathematics scores. Indicate the income disparity. Indicate where they grew up (city vs rural/suburban). Indicate whether both parents were working or one. This way everyone can judge. I am not going to tell people what to think. My issue was always with private vs public schools in regard to training scientists. I have never met a home schooled scientist. I am sure they exist (I could home school one), but I have met and conversed with thousands of students which is statistically significant database.

Also answer my prior questions that  you feel are so easy to look up in google. Let me know if they exist. Let me know why you think you know the answer on the basis of no data if they do not exist:
"If you find a study that takes into account the large demographic difference (see the first link), let me know. Look at it. The problem is obvious.
If you find a study that compares outcome when there is parental involvement in the education of students in public and private schools vs home schooling, let me know."

I am not picky, I am just curious about your reasoning.

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« Reply #634 on: June 09, 2013, 11:20:52 PM »

This isn't hard to find guys.  Google "homeschool outcomes" and you'll find plenty of studies that reinforce the good of homeschooling.

No it isn't easy, I tried. Post the individual studies. I do not have the time to invest in your topic of interest. I already posted two studies for you that you should have immediately cited in you posts. It is now your turn to back up what you are saying.



Uh, the study you posted showed that Homeschooled students have composite ACT scores higher than private and public schooled students.  You've already done a great job proving my point!  Thank you.

I am not trying to prove anyone's points. I am just trying to get the facts out there. I posted the non-peer reviewed article because it would be accessible, but I read the underlying article.

My issue is your post:

There is what you might call propaganda, or misinformation at worst, but I would consider as lies that shouldn't have been stated with a modest amount of research and judgement.

Rephrase it. Put in the science and mathematics scores. Indicate the income disparity. Indicate where they grew up (city vs rural/suburban). Indicate whether both parents were working or one. This way everyone can judge. I am not going to tell people what to think. My issue was always with private vs public schools in regard to training scientists. I have never met a home schooled scientist. I am sure they exist (I could home school one), but I have met and conversed with thousands of students which is statistically significant database.

Also answer my prior questions that  you feel are so easy to look up in google. Let me know if they exist. Let me know why you think you know the answer on the basis of no data if they do not exist:
"If you find a study that takes into account the large demographic difference (see the first link), let me know. Look at it. The problem is obvious.
If you find a study that compares outcome when there is parental involvement in the education of students in public and private schools vs home schooling, let me know."

I am not picky, I am just curious about your reasoning.



Well, if the 7 state studies which I referred you to aren't enough to convince you that homeschooled students do fine, I don't know what will.  All I said were that there are plenty of studies that show homeschool students do better than public schooled students, and their are none that show they don't.  You found one on your very own that supports my assertion.  You provided none that show I might be wrong. And I just referred to 7 more studies done by 7 different states that also reinforce my assertion.

And yes, the link I provided does indirectly address the demographics issue. When they looked at the statistical achievement of children from the same school district, i.e. similar socio-economics, homeschooled kids did better on average.
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« Reply #635 on: June 09, 2013, 11:38:41 PM »

This isn't hard to find guys.  Google "homeschool outcomes" and you'll find plenty of studies that reinforce the good of homeschooling.

No it isn't easy, I tried. Post the individual studies. I do not have the time to invest in your topic of interest. I already posted two studies for you that you should have immediately cited in you posts. It is now your turn to back up what you are saying.



Uh, the study you posted showed that Homeschooled students have composite ACT scores higher than private and public schooled students.  You've already done a great job proving my point!  Thank you.

I am not trying to prove anyone's points. I am just trying to get the facts out there. I posted the non-peer reviewed article because it would be accessible, but I read the underlying article.

My issue is your post:

There is what you might call propaganda, or misinformation at worst, but I would consider as lies that shouldn't have been stated with a modest amount of research and judgement.

Rephrase it. Put in the science and mathematics scores. Indicate the income disparity. Indicate where they grew up (city vs rural/suburban). Indicate whether both parents were working or one. This way everyone can judge. I am not going to tell people what to think. My issue was always with private vs public schools in regard to training scientists. I have never met a home schooled scientist. I am sure they exist (I could home school one), but I have met and conversed with thousands of students which is statistically significant database.

Also answer my prior questions that  you feel are so easy to look up in google. Let me know if they exist. Let me know why you think you know the answer on the basis of no data if they do not exist:
"If you find a study that takes into account the large demographic difference (see the first link), let me know. Look at it. The problem is obvious.
If you find a study that compares outcome when there is parental involvement in the education of students in public and private schools vs home schooling, let me know."

I am not picky, I am just curious about your reasoning.



Well, if the 7 state studies which I referred you to aren't enough to convince you that homeschooled students do fine, I don't know what will.  All I said were that there are plenty of studies that show homeschool students do better than public schooled students, and their are none that show they don't.  You found one on your very own that supports my assertion.  You provided none that show I might be wrong. And I just referred to 7 more studies done by 7 different states that also reinforce my assertion.

And yes, the link I provided does indirectly address the demographics issue. When they looked at the statistical achievement of children from the same school district, i.e. similar socio-economics, homeschooled kids did better on average.

I needed no convincing that home schooled students do fine. It was not an issue that I brought up. Why would I write: "If you find a study that compares outcome when there is parental involvement in the education of students in public and private schools vs home schooling, let me know." Would that make sense if I thought otherwise? I am done with reading until the next weekend. Why don't you just state what they measured in demographics and the comparative values rather than leave it a mystery? What is the point of being obscure if you are trying to make an argument?

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« Reply #636 on: June 09, 2013, 11:38:55 PM »

Oh, and Opus118, I know you are concerned about home-schooled scientists and have never met one, so here are a few any scientist would have heard of:

Erik Demaine - current faculty member at MIT
Francis Collins - human genome project
Sho Yano - molecular geneticist and physician (he is still only 23.  He got his PhD in Molecular Genetics and cell biology at 18. He credits his mother for much of his success. She homeschooled him through th 12th grade.)
Julian Assange - I guess you could call him a computer scientist
William Lear - built Lear jets
Erwin Schrödinger - Nobel Prize Winning physicist
Thomas Edison - invented stuff
Albert Einstein - Some german dude
Frank Lloyd Wright - Architect (I guess maybe not a scientist but I love Frank Lloyd Wright and one of my children wants to be an architect and he loves Frank Lloyd Wright. My kid is 7 by the way.)

Just a few I found interesting, there are a lot more. The first four are currently working. It is easy to find homeschooled people in any field.





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« Reply #637 on: June 09, 2013, 11:56:08 PM »

I'm glad you agree home school students do fine Opus118.

When I started a few posts back I said, "The good of homeschooling is proven factually as any study you find will show the benefits of homeschooling."

There is nothing obscure about that at all, and the studies I posted reinforce this as does the one you found. Now I realize that 8 studies, 7 of them by 7 different Departments of Education, where Homeschoolers test much better than the average compared to public school students, might not "prove" to someone there are benefits to homeschooling. If that is case, I probably can't persuade them.

In addition, I said that most arguments against homeschooling in my opinion are because of personal experience(i.e. the anecdotes we see here), emotion and bias but not because of any study - no one has produced a single study negative to homeschooling to prove their point. Again, nothing obscure about that.

Now, if a sentence or two in my replies was obscure to you, well then I apologize.  I didn't realize this was some high-brow academic debate we were having. I thought my points were pretty simple and as I showed in later posts, fairly verifiable.

Now, it seems you have questions with the studies themselves. You'll have to ask the source for those I'm afraid.
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« Reply #638 on: June 10, 2013, 06:44:41 AM »

Were not most of America's founders and historical giants homeschooled?
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« Reply #639 on: June 10, 2013, 07:35:16 AM »

Were not most of America's founders and historical giants homeschooled?

Depends on how many 'most' are. Washington had tutors; Jefferson started with tutors and went on to school; Franklin went to school and continued with self-study.

But even if they all were homeschooled, that wouldn't mean two hoots to the rest of the world.
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« Reply #640 on: June 10, 2013, 07:44:16 AM »

Were not most of America's founders and historical giants homeschooled?

Depends on how many 'most' are. Washington had tutors; Jefferson started with tutors and went on to school; Franklin went to school and continued with self-study.

But even if they all were homeschooled, that wouldn't mean two hoots to the rest of the world.

It may mean a lot to more people than you realize.  Most of America was homeschooled at some level as we rose to be the most powerful nation on earth.  When people began with public education, we slowly started our decline.  There may be no direct correlation, but it is interesting.  In fact, everyone is homeschooled at some level.
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« Reply #641 on: June 10, 2013, 07:52:03 AM »

I listened to this on AFR recently about the public schools from Fr. Daniel Keller.

He made some good points about the history of public schooling in America, but it kind of ended up with a general attack on public schools. Im glad to say that my school system is one of the school systems he mentioned that are friendly to Christianity today. Probably because most of the administrators, teachers, and guidance counselors were grads of Liberty U and go to Falwell's church together.

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« Reply #642 on: June 10, 2013, 07:53:36 AM »

Were not most of America's founders and historical giants homeschooled?

Depends on how many 'most' are. Washington had tutors; Jefferson started with tutors and went on to school; Franklin went to school and continued with self-study.

But even if they all were homeschooled, that wouldn't mean two hoots to the rest of the world.

It may mean a lot to more people than you realize.  Most of America was homeschooled at some level as we rose to be the most powerful nation on earth.  When people began with public education, we slowly started our decline.  There may be no direct correlation, but it is interesting.  In fact, everyone is homeschooled at some level.

So public education in the US started about 4 decades ago? Come on now... Roll Eyes

The reason public education over there is such a hash is because everyone and their dog wants a system to fit their own needs. Kinda like the situation with Protestant churches. Anyone who disagrees picks up their bucket and spade and sets up their own sandbox. It's more obvious with education, but it's catching up with the rest of society.

Still, I'm not about to go political here. There's nothing in the OP to suggest that discussion is to be limited to the American educational predicament, so I'm simply offering perspective.
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« Reply #643 on: June 10, 2013, 09:49:15 PM »

Funny how people lash out emotionally at those they think are acting on emotion.

Number of households I've had contact with that have home schooled.

Greater than 100 probably closer to 1000.

Maniacs tend to congregate.

Just watched several children from our homeschool group get scholarships. 

You've got to be trolling.... got to be.
what sort of scholarships and to where?

sheesh you act like the word scholarship is some big deal without the details.

Google home school scholarships.

One girl got 4 years paid to SMU in Dallas, another 2 years at UTD, another $5k, I forget some of the rest.  This was just in my homeschool group alone with a rather small graduating class.   The students did well on the SAT and also presented a good case to scholarship sponsors.

Don't fully know about all the details, my children are to young for me to even have looked much into it.
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« Reply #644 on: June 10, 2013, 09:54:51 PM »

Were not most of America's founders and historical giants homeschooled?

Depends on how many 'most' are. Washington had tutors; Jefferson started with tutors and went on to school; Franklin went to school and continued with self-study.

But even if they all were homeschooled, that wouldn't mean two hoots to the rest of the world.

It may mean a lot to more people than you realize.  Most of America was homeschooled at some level as we rose to be the most powerful nation on earth.  When people began with public education, we slowly started our decline.  There may be no direct correlation, but it is interesting.  In fact, everyone is homeschooled at some level.

So public education in the US started about 4 decades ago? Come on now... Roll Eyes

The reason public education over there is such a hash is because everyone and their dog wants a system to fit their own needs. Kinda like the situation with Protestant churches. Anyone who disagrees picks up their bucket and spade and sets up their own sandbox. It's more obvious with education, but it's catching up with the rest of society.

Still, I'm not about to go political here. There's nothing in the OP to suggest that discussion is to be limited to the American educational predicament, so I'm simply offering perspective.

Public education in the 1900's was paid for ONLY by the parents sending their children to school, the board was run by parents only, decisions made by the parents.  No state regulations.    They hired the teachers, they prayed in school too.

Laura Ingalls Wilder for example, went to one of these types of schools.

In other words "public school" then was what is considered "private school" now.   I don't give credence to only 4 decades ago, but I do give credence that public education wasn't as public as people thought for a long time.
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« Reply #645 on: June 10, 2013, 10:10:06 PM »

No socialization....
http://www.homeschoolalumni.org/reuion.jpg

 Undecided

This thread is going too far.  I mean some of you just simply don't understand... I don't even know how many times we have gotten back from a homeschool event just when I load up OC.net and see bad raps about homeschool.   I just shrug.... It's like "there is no winning this argument, these people simply don't know".

I don't many have a clue of what homeschooling is.... I hope that some of you know there are full blown curriculum packages.

I'll give you an example of a smaller publisher. 
Here is Rod & Staff 6th grade math SAMPLE
http://samples.milestonebooks.com/1-13691-3/


Here is Alpha Omega Publications, they are HUGE
http://www.aophomeschooling.com/?gclid=CIXe79z32rcCFQho7Aod1yAAFg

Go to Ebay and type "homeschool" and you'll get a SLEW of curriculum choices.   

We have groups, trips, graduation, scholarships, collage prep, play (for younger), and cookouts as a group.... It's very social and many of the children have done well in their adult lives.
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« Reply #646 on: June 11, 2013, 01:02:44 AM »


This thread is going too far.  I mean some of you just simply don't understand... I don't even know how many times we have gotten back from a homeschool event just when I load up OC.net and see bad raps about homeschool.   I just shrug.... It's like "there is no winning this argument, these people simply don't know".


I do not think this thread has gone far enough, but not in the vein that it has been going. It seems obvious to me that the education of a child with a lot of parental support elevates homeschooling above the run of the mill public schooling that we read about in the newspapers. What is not discussed is the failures, mainly because the parents at fault are not accountable beyond the family they are already in control of. It would be rare for these situations to become known.

Since home schooling is obviously superior, what after hours outreach programs do you personally provide (I do mean you or the group that you work with)? I am sure there are programs, it just has not entered into this discussion.
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« Reply #647 on: June 11, 2013, 07:21:31 PM »


This thread is going too far.  I mean some of you just simply don't understand... I don't even know how many times we have gotten back from a homeschool event just when I load up OC.net and see bad raps about homeschool.   I just shrug.... It's like "there is no winning this argument, these people simply don't know".


I do not think this thread has gone far enough, but not in the vein that it has been going. It seems obvious to me that the education of a child with a lot of parental support elevates homeschooling above the run of the mill public schooling that we read about in the newspapers. What is not discussed is the failures, mainly because the parents at fault are not accountable beyond the family they are already in control of. It would be rare for these situations to become known.

Since home schooling is obviously superior, what after hours outreach programs do you personally provide (I do mean you or the group that you work with)? I am sure there are programs, it just has not entered into this discussion.

You'd have to define outreach programs.  Many of those here are defined as "keeping street kids out of trouble" etc.

In my experience, homeschooled children stay out of trouble very well.   Since their parents are infused in their lives, they tend not to run with bad groups.   Our homeschool group has many venues, park days, field trips, field day, etc.
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« Reply #648 on: June 11, 2013, 11:01:19 PM »


This thread is going too far.  I mean some of you just simply don't understand... I don't even know how many times we have gotten back from a homeschool event just when I load up OC.net and see bad raps about homeschool.   I just shrug.... It's like "there is no winning this argument, these people simply don't know".


I do not think this thread has gone far enough, but not in the vein that it has been going. It seems obvious to me that the education of a child with a lot of parental support elevates homeschooling above the run of the mill public schooling that we read about in the newspapers. What is not discussed is the failures, mainly because the parents at fault are not accountable beyond the family they are already in control of. It would be rare for these situations to become known.

Since home schooling is obviously superior, what after hours outreach programs do you personally provide (I do mean you or the group that you work with)? I am sure there are programs, it just has not entered into this discussion.

You'd have to define outreach programs.  Many of those here are defined as "keeping street kids out of trouble" etc.

In my experience, homeschooled children stay out of trouble very well.   Since their parents are infused in their lives, they tend not to run with bad groups.   Our homeschool group has many venues, park days, field trips, field day, etc.

I can imagine everything that you say about homeschooling is true in your situation. So we should take that off the table. I do have doubts about homeschooling universally due to the lack of accountability.

I was interested in a more universal application. My question is more in line with with people that want to see if homeschooling is universally applicable (for example a liberal that is into home schooling might look into this question and I am sure there are many. On the other hand. there may be those that would prefer homeschooling to remain in the chosen few category).

By outreach I meant taking in children whose parents would not be able to homeschool. For example, parents that have lived here for 30 years but still do not understand English. Parents that have to work 12 hr per day (I see this all the time so do not argue about this) to pay for rent and food. Does the homeschooling environment still work? Or is it that you are doomed by who your parents are?

Are there studies on this. I haven't noticed them, but I have not  been looking for them this past weekend?
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« Reply #649 on: June 13, 2013, 12:23:18 AM »


This thread is going too far.  I mean some of you just simply don't understand... I don't even know how many times we have gotten back from a homeschool event just when I load up OC.net and see bad raps about homeschool.   I just shrug.... It's like "there is no winning this argument, these people simply don't know".


I do not think this thread has gone far enough, but not in the vein that it has been going. It seems obvious to me that the education of a child with a lot of parental support elevates homeschooling above the run of the mill public schooling that we read about in the newspapers. What is not discussed is the failures, mainly because the parents at fault are not accountable beyond the family they are already in control of. It would be rare for these situations to become known.

Since home schooling is obviously superior, what after hours outreach programs do you personally provide (I do mean you or the group that you work with)? I am sure there are programs, it just has not entered into this discussion.

You'd have to define outreach programs.  Many of those here are defined as "keeping street kids out of trouble" etc.

In my experience, homeschooled children stay out of trouble very well.   Since their parents are infused in their lives, they tend not to run with bad groups.   Our homeschool group has many venues, park days, field trips, field day, etc.

I can imagine everything that you say about homeschooling is true in your situation. So we should take that off the table. I do have doubts about homeschooling universally due to the lack of accountability.

I was interested in a more universal application. My question is more in line with with people that want to see if homeschooling is universally applicable (for example a liberal that is into home schooling might look into this question and I am sure there are many. On the other hand. there may be those that would prefer homeschooling to remain in the chosen few category).

By outreach I meant taking in children whose parents would not be able to homeschool. For example, parents that have lived here for 30 years but still do not understand English. Parents that have to work 12 hr per day (I see this all the time so do not argue about this) to pay for rent and food. Does the homeschooling environment still work? Or is it that you are doomed by who your parents are?

Are there studies on this. I haven't noticed them, but I have not  been looking for them this past weekend?


I have not seen studies on this.   But here is what I have seen from my experience after being involved with homeschooling for 14 years, and speaking to parents who have been involved for 25 years.

First, in general, homeschooling families are incredibly resourceful. (12 hour day parents).  Those who lack funds share information on where excellent deals can be had.   For instance, they'll share the locations of "scratch & dent" food stores, thrift shops, and when those places are running specials.  They'll have resources to day old bread shops, and where "free wood can be found".   They watch out for each other's needs if they stop at garage sales and help each other financially.   I've seen it from electric bills, water bills, even to helping each other fight the appraisal district.

I have no doubt that a family that would struggle with 1 income would find homeschooling families incredibly resourceful... In fact so resourceful, that they would render the 2nd income as pointless.  I know of a family RIGHT THIS SECOND who lives in an okay 3 bedroom home, has 2 vehicles, and 4 teenagers.  The dad works as a local truck driver making $15 an hour - with regular hours.  They make it.   Seriously, they really do.  Live within their means, content, and resourceful.   This allows the mom to homeschool the children.

Parents who don't understand English can easily homeschool their children.   They would simply trade educational classes with an English speaking mother for English lessons, and the English mother would send their child for Spanish lessons.  This is called co-ops in homeschool lingo.  Sometimes they do these things at home, and sometimes they'll run educational groups at local churches, etc.

I believe homeschool is universally applicable in any situation.  A homeschooling parent's attitude is often "where there is a will, there is a way".    Single mothers can even homeschool their children.  I've seen a group of three women who took shifts while the others worked.... That would be messy for me, but it worked for them. 

I've seen a teen who book learned in the evenings with her mom, and completed assignments during the day while her mom worked.  Archaic and out of the box, sure.... But it worked great.

It's amazing the types of wonderful educational environments & situations that can be made by individuals & families who are willing to make things work.
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« Reply #650 on: June 13, 2013, 10:13:20 PM »

Here is a really good article on parents who homeschool but don't fit the Homeschool - white, evangelical christian - stereotype.

This article hit home with me.  When we first started considering homeschooling we were living in San Francisco.  We knew a lot of people who homeschooled and most were wealthy liberals of all colors, hardly the stereotype.

If you are committed to providing a structured learning environment for your children, I believe Homeschooling can work for almost anyone.

http://nymag.com/guides/everything/urban-homeschooling-2012-10/

"Urbanites cite many reasons for choosing homeschooling, but religion is rarely one of them. Laurie Spigel, who runs the website Home School NYC, estimates that “maybe one percent or less” of New York homeschool families are religiously motivated. “You can only generalize about homeschoolers as much as you can generalize about New Yorkers,” says Spigel. Mostly, though, New York City homeschoolers are “educated, middle-class people,” she says, who don’t like what’s on offer from the Department of Ed and can’t afford or don’t want to pay private-school tuition. In this way, New Yorkers who homeschool reflect the homeschool population at large: The greatest proportion of homeschool parents in the United States earn between $50,000 and $75,000 a year and have a bachelor’s degree or more."
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« Reply #651 on: June 13, 2013, 11:14:31 PM »


This thread is going too far.  I mean some of you just simply don't understand... I don't even know how many times we have gotten back from a homeschool event just when I load up OC.net and see bad raps about homeschool.   I just shrug.... It's like "there is no winning this argument, these people simply don't know".


I do not think this thread has gone far enough, but not in the vein that it has been going. It seems obvious to me that the education of a child with a lot of parental support elevates homeschooling above the run of the mill public schooling that we read about in the newspapers. What is not discussed is the failures, mainly because the parents at fault are not accountable beyond the family they are already in control of. It would be rare for these situations to become known.

Since home schooling is obviously superior, what after hours outreach programs do you personally provide (I do mean you or the group that you work with)? I am sure there are programs, it just has not entered into this discussion.

You'd have to define outreach programs.  Many of those here are defined as "keeping street kids out of trouble" etc.

In my experience, homeschooled children stay out of trouble very well.   Since their parents are infused in their lives, they tend not to run with bad groups.   Our homeschool group has many venues, park days, field trips, field day, etc.

I can imagine everything that you say about homeschooling is true in your situation. So we should take that off the table. I do have doubts about homeschooling universally due to the lack of accountability.

I was interested in a more universal application. My question is more in line with with people that want to see if homeschooling is universally applicable (for example a liberal that is into home schooling might look into this question and I am sure there are many. On the other hand. there may be those that would prefer homeschooling to remain in the chosen few category).

By outreach I meant taking in children whose parents would not be able to homeschool. For example, parents that have lived here for 30 years but still do not understand English. Parents that have to work 12 hr per day (I see this all the time so do not argue about this) to pay for rent and food. Does the homeschooling environment still work? Or is it that you are doomed by who your parents are?

Are there studies on this. I haven't noticed them, but I have not  been looking for them this past weekend?


I have not seen studies on this.   But here is what I have seen from my experience after being involved with homeschooling for 14 years, and speaking to parents who have been involved for 25 years.

First, in general, homeschooling families are incredibly resourceful. (12 hour day parents).  Those who lack funds share information on where excellent deals can be had.   For instance, they'll share the locations of "scratch & dent" food stores, thrift shops, and when those places are running specials.  They'll have resources to day old bread shops, and where "free wood can be found".   They watch out for each other's needs if they stop at garage sales and help each other financially.   I've seen it from electric bills, water bills, even to helping each other fight the appraisal district.

I have no doubt that a family that would struggle with 1 income would find homeschooling families incredibly resourceful... In fact so resourceful, that they would render the 2nd income as pointless.  I know of a family RIGHT THIS SECOND who lives in an okay 3 bedroom home, has 2 vehicles, and 4 teenagers.  The dad works as a local truck driver making $15 an hour - with regular hours.  They make it.   Seriously, they really do.  Live within their means, content, and resourceful.   This allows the mom to homeschool the children.

Parents who don't understand English can easily homeschool their children.   They would simply trade educational classes with an English speaking mother for English lessons, and the English mother would send their child for Spanish lessons.  This is called co-ops in homeschool lingo.  Sometimes they do these things at home, and sometimes they'll run educational groups at local churches, etc.

I believe homeschool is universally applicable in any situation.  A homeschooling parent's attitude is often "where there is a will, there is a way".    Single mothers can even homeschool their children.  I've seen a group of three women who took shifts while the others worked.... That would be messy for me, but it worked for them. 

I've seen a teen who book learned in the evenings with her mom, and completed assignments during the day while her mom worked.  Archaic and out of the box, sure.... But it worked great.

It's amazing the types of wonderful educational environments & situations that can be made by individuals & families who are willing to make things work.
.
Thanks Yeshuaisiam. I do like the aspect of very small groups of parents working together on the education of their children. I also think there are lessons to be learned from out of the box approaches. I am worried about homeschooling in isolation ( by a single parent) but that is not part of this conversation.

I am getting back to this outreach thing.  One of the major problems of public education is parental involvement (from what I have seen and understood). I think teaching  by example in an intimate atmosphere is a good idea (and I am referring to parents as the students here). Has anyone worked out a pilot study utilizing both a public school and home schooling approach? In other words the parents of a child would enroll for one class in a homeschool setting with the proviso that they also attend and contribute. If the outcome is good, it will spread amongst parents. If the outcome is not so good, the program would deserve tweaking.

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« Reply #652 on: June 13, 2013, 11:31:39 PM »

Here is a really good article on parents who homeschool but don't fit the Homeschool - white, evangelical christian - stereotype.

This article hit home with me.  When we first started considering homeschooling we were living in San Francisco.  We knew a lot of people who homeschooled and most were wealthy liberals of all colors, hardly the stereotype.

If you are committed to providing a structured learning environment for your children, I believe Homeschooling can work for almost anyone.

http://nymag.com/guides/everything/urban-homeschooling-2012-10/

"Urbanites cite many reasons for choosing homeschooling, but religion is rarely one of them. Laurie Spigel, who runs the website Home School NYC, estimates that “maybe one percent or less” of New York homeschool families are religiously motivated. “You can only generalize about homeschoolers as much as you can generalize about New Yorkers,” says Spigel. Mostly, though, New York City homeschoolers are “educated, middle-class people,” she says, who don’t like what’s on offer from the Department of Ed and can’t afford or don’t want to pay private-school tuition. In this way, New Yorkers who homeschool reflect the homeschool population at large: The greatest proportion of homeschool parents in the United States earn between $50,000 and $75,000 a year and have a bachelor’s degree or more."

Just to note that "liberal" has nothing to do with who homeschools. We are talking about parents here and those labels fall by the way side. The stereotype is being wealthy and/or educated. The elite amongst us. I do not know if this is true but what you cited (and I didn't read it) make it sounds like it is so.

Not a big deal. But it did remind me of Auntie Mame:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ6g0JxYBH0

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« Reply #653 on: June 13, 2013, 11:41:35 PM »

Here is a really good article on parents who homeschool but don't fit the Homeschool - white, evangelical christian - stereotype.

This article hit home with me.  When we first started considering homeschooling we were living in San Francisco.  We knew a lot of people who homeschooled and most were wealthy liberals of all colors, hardly the stereotype.

If you are committed to providing a structured learning environment for your children, I believe Homeschooling can work for almost anyone.

http://nymag.com/guides/everything/urban-homeschooling-2012-10/

"Urbanites cite many reasons for choosing homeschooling, but religion is rarely one of them. Laurie Spigel, who runs the website Home School NYC, estimates that “maybe one percent or less” of New York homeschool families are religiously motivated. “You can only generalize about homeschoolers as much as you can generalize about New Yorkers,” says Spigel. Mostly, though, New York City homeschoolers are “educated, middle-class people,” she says, who don’t like what’s on offer from the Department of Ed and can’t afford or don’t want to pay private-school tuition. In this way, New Yorkers who homeschool reflect the homeschool population at large: The greatest proportion of homeschool parents in the United States earn between $50,000 and $75,000 a year and have a bachelor’s degree or more."

Just to note that "liberal" has nothing to do with who homeschools. We are talking about parents here and those labels fall by the way side. The stereotype is being wealthy and/or educated. The elite amongst us. I do not know if this is true but what you cited (and I didn't read it) make it sounds like it is so.

Not a big deal. But it did remind me of Auntie Mame:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJ6g0JxYBH0



The stereotypical homeschool parent really isn't one who is "wealthy and/or educated" as you put it. The most common stereotype of a homeschool parent is usually that of the evangelical right-wing christian.  This article was saying that that stereotype is being challenged by an increasing number of city people who homeschool and don't fit that stereotype.

All that being said, the average homeschooler we've known probably would fall under - white, middle class, dad works/mom doesn't, christian(Catholic or Evangelical), conservative politically, and varied academic background.

I agree, people don't homeschool because of political affiliation, they homeschool because they think it is best for their children for a variety of reasons.
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« Reply #654 on: June 13, 2013, 11:53:32 PM »

Some very interesting data from the US Census Bureau in 2001 on Homeschooling.  Some really interesting ones:

Characteristics of Home-schooled Children: http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0053/tab02.pdf
Homeschooled by Geographic region: http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0053/tab04.pdf
Reasons given for homeschooling: http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0053/tab04.pdf

And the rest and more here: http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation/twps0053/twps0053.html#impact
« Last Edit: June 13, 2013, 11:53:45 PM by livefreeordie » Logged
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« Reply #655 on: June 24, 2013, 12:53:18 PM »

A large number of the military families stationed in the DC area homeschool their families as a direct result of the abysmal condition of the public schools in the area. They tend to have very high educational and moral standards for their children.
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« Reply #656 on: June 24, 2013, 08:11:23 PM »

A large number of the military families stationed in the DC area homeschool their families as a direct result of the abysmal condition of the public schools in the area. They tend to have very high educational and moral standards for their children.
Shhh!  They are government employees not endorsing the government program. 
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« Reply #657 on: September 02, 2013, 02:45:47 PM »

I was fortunate enough to go to the top public high school (non-magnet) in my state. There are reasons to home school other than protecting your children. Many of the families around here home school because of perceived evils of public schooling, but there are other reasons as well. My neighbor's daughter has severe learning disabilities, and because my neighbor is trained as a school teacher, she took it upon herself to educate her daughter because as she put it, my daughter isn't meant to be in public schools because educating her would be a drain on county and state resources, and they also can't do it effectively.

I was sent away to boarding school to escape my alcoholic father, but that was more my grandmother's doing than my mother's doing.
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« Reply #658 on: September 02, 2013, 03:23:56 PM »

I was fortunate enough to go to the top public high school (non-magnet) in my state. There are reasons to home school other than protecting your children. Many of the families around here home school because of perceived evils of public schooling, but there are other reasons as well. My neighbor's daughter has severe learning disabilities, and because my neighbor is trained as a school teacher, she took it upon herself to educate her daughter because as she put it, my daughter isn't meant to be in public schools because educating her would be a drain on county and state resources, and they also can't do it effectively.

I was sent away to boarding school to escape my alcoholic father, but that was more my grandmother's doing than my mother's doing.

For clarification, my boarding school experience was during middle school until my father got over his alcoholism.
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« Reply #659 on: March 09, 2014, 12:15:55 AM »

OK, I am totally unqualified to talk about this. I'm still in the engagement part of my family, so there is certainly no children yet. However, Me and my beloved have already spoken about it and we intend to at least try homeschooling first. Our reasons are simple. One, we feel that public schools are dangerous, not all public schools dish out poor education, some are very good schools in that department however with the rise in mass school shootings I feel it is an unsafe environment. Private schools tend to be expensive and a high cost doesn't guarantee a good education. Home schooling is the only place we will know what level of education they are getting, can ensure an Orthodox outlook, and can be relatively sure of there safety. another issue is bullying. My future wife wears her head covering all the time in public. This of course means our daughter(s?) will as well. The likely hood that this will be misunderstood is pretty high. They would most likely be mistaken for Muslims but no matter if they are or not, I'm sure it will be miss understood. I can just see some jerk kid snatching my daughter's head scarf off and my little girl in tears. I would much rather avoid that. that is our reasons, but things may change once we actually have children.   
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« Reply #660 on: May 09, 2014, 03:24:07 AM »

Alright, this topic is like old bathwater to me, as I and my wife were homeschooled, by parents who are radical countercultural religious homeschoolers, among a network of similar idealogues, and I even worked ten years for a well-known homeschool-textbook publisher. I think a couple of points are worth making.

First, there is too much mystery and misunderstanding around this topic. Somehow, some elements have taken homeschooling as a brand for their own movements, and the ruse has worked so well that homeschooling and the reaction to it has become defined by these elements. However, the truth is very different. For example, did you know that the largest demographic of homeschoolers at the moment is probably Roman Catholics? This has been true for a few years, as that church has been unable to maintain the level of education for which it had been known, closing down many parish schools.

Second, to return to the elements that prey (in my opinion) on homeschoolers for their own ends -- these are for the most part offering quite terrible curricula, academically, quite apart from the pernicious nature of their political and religious agenda. As they seem hell-bent on making the perception a reality -- that is, on in fact making all homeschooling merely the acceptance of their brand -- I expect the average quality of homeschool education soon markedly to degrade.

Third -- and here we do touch on a mystery -- yes, studies and experience show that homeschooled children perform remarkably well academically, but I think the reason is psychological and sociological, is even a reason of the soul, viz.: This is what children are capable of, really and truly themselves capable of. A parent is a small obstacle; an institution a complex large one. In other words, it is not, in my opinion, these parents or their curricula that are to be praised, but our modern institutional ignorance of the soul that is to be blamed for average American children's suppressed inner vitality.
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« Reply #661 on: May 09, 2014, 04:55:20 AM »

An idea for Americans to consider? Surely, some politicians over there in the States would be willing to give it a try, and they have some precedents and examples.
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« Reply #662 on: May 09, 2014, 07:29:31 AM »

Quote
Alright, this topic is like old bathwater to me
Considering that the last post before yours was on March 8th, I would agree Smiley

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« Reply #663 on: May 20, 2014, 01:44:32 PM »

I am 16 and I am going to be homeschooled by next year. I honestly think it's better there for my own many personal reasons and I think it's good for most because it encourages freethinking and individuality. Western schools are little more than militarizing institutions for state obedience.
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