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Author Topic: Homeschool VS Public School  (Read 64481 times) Average Rating: 1
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Thomas
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« on: February 03, 2006, 02:04:27 AM »

This is a new topic that I would like opened for discussion.  How do you school your children?  Public School, Orthodox parochial School, or Home School?

We have tried home schooling but found it to be too difficult for a working couple to effectively do so in the absence of Orthodox Parochial School, Our children attended Public School. On the advice of our Priest, we would spend at least an hour at night taking the public school information and expanding it to the Orthodox World View.  We assigned other readings for Orthodox authors and church Fathers and  had the older kids write short papers on various topics.  We encouraged the kids to present some of the Orthodox World View in their papers and they got surprisingly good marks for their  "extra research and insight."

How about you how do you handle the challenge of educating your Orthodox Children?

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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2006, 02:10:41 AM »

My daughter is not old enough yet to be formally schooled, but fwiw when she gets a bit older we plan on homeschooling her. One parent will stay home with her, and one will be working to support the family. Of course, it's easy for me to say now, since I'm not actually doing anything yet. Smiley
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2006, 03:31:21 AM »

Why do so many traditional Orthodox people insist on home schooling? 

I've never really understood the rational behind it.  The typical argument that is espoused is parents want to shelter their child(ren) from moral imperfections of others (since it is only everybody elses kids that do drugs and have sex) and the morally corrupt teachings of public schools (i.e evolution).  Is this is it, or are the more (and better) reasons behind homeschooling?
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« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2006, 03:36:41 AM »

Yes, there are many reasons to homeschool, none of which I could share without offending someone or sounding arrogant. So I don't bother trying anymore, in public or in private. There are websites online that discuss the positives (and, of course, the negatives), I'll let them be the arrogant ones. Smiley
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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2006, 03:39:17 AM »

Well, the education system here in the UK is a little different. The state (what you call public) schools are often terrible (certainly when it comes to discipline), the public (what you call private) schools are very expensive and certainly beyond my means. Then there are the church shools, which function pretty much like state schools but seem generally to be better. To my knowledge there is only one Orthodox church school in the country and it's nowhere near us and home schooling is really not an option. That leaves us with the option of state, Anglican and RC schools. Five minutes walk from my house is a very good RC primary school so my son is going to their nursery. Hopefully he'll be accepted into the main school in April (he's due to start next January, but that's when we find out). I did have some initial misgivings but there are several other Orthodox kids there, they don't push the RC stuff on the non-RC children and they are very open to altering their actions for non-RC families. As an example, we recently had a talk with my son's nursery teacher because she'd been 'correcting' how he crosses himself. She actually didn't realise that we cross ourselves differently but was very apologetic and has agreed to take care that he crosses himself the Orthodox way in future. This has saved him a lot of confusion as previously he never quite seemed to know what he ought to be doing. So far I'm pretty happy with their attitude.

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« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2006, 04:08:25 AM »

[quote author=Νεκτάριος link=topic=8112.msg105866#msg105866 date=1138951881]
Why do so many traditional Orthodox people insist on home schooling? 

I've never really understood the rational behind it.  The typical argument that is espoused is parents want to shelter their child(ren) from moral imperfections of others (since it is only everybody elses kids that do drugs and have sex) and the morally corrupt teachings of public schools (i.e evolution).  Is this is it, or are the more (and better) reasons behind homeschooling?[/quote]

I'm not a parent, of course, but a student in a home-based program myself. One of the main reasons I chose to take this route was the academic aspect. Regular school, public and private, is just too slow. For example, physics classes will often spend an entire quarter on simple motion topics, including parabolic trajectories, friction, and angular force. That is way too slow, even for more average students. Now I can literally go as fast as I like. As for evolution vs. creation, I study both sides in my self-directed program, even moreso because I tend to fence-sit on this issue (which I rarely do, and hate to do, on anything).
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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2006, 10:20:25 AM »

I homeschool 4 out of my 7 children (3 are not old enough for formal school yet). None have even been to a regular school. We just always knew that when the time came we would homeschool.

We do not homeschool to shelter our children mainly...where we live now, the public schools are terrible and the private schools are very expensive. If we lived somewhere that I was confidant in the public schools we MIGHT stop homeschooling but I am not sure.

The problem right now for many of us Orthodox homeschoolers (And there are a LOT of us out there) is the lack of good Orthodox materials to use. There are several people who are working at putting together Orthodox stuff to use. But at this point, there isn't much. I spend much of my prep time tweaking Protestant material to make it Orthodox friendly.

If someone produced an affordable Orthodox homeschool curriculum, they would most likely make a lot of money on it! LOL

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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2006, 02:31:13 PM »

There are many *different* reasons to homeschool. And homeschooling is not something that "fits" every child or every family.

Our family doctor and his wife homeschooled a couple of their 10 children through Middle School and then they went to High School.  He told us years ago that "the Middle School years are where things can fall apart". This course was best apparently to give the children the strength to be able to handle pressure and troubles in High School.

Another family I know homeschooled one son but not his twin sister or their older 2 children.  The boy was *not* responding well to the local school and not doing work.  So they homeschooled him for a couple of years with a designed "independent study" plan and it helped him focus and do well. 

One should not say that "all public schools are Evil" or that "Homeschooling is the Only Way to Educate" I think.

Ebor
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2006, 05:54:39 PM »

Although I am not a parent my expertise lies in what I do for a living. I work for a higher education consortium that provides service to those who want to pursue education at a distance. The biggest thing I have learned that there is no one size fits all solution. Currently, I am not sure what sort of education my husband and I want to provide our future children but I believe it is something that should be determined carefully. Actually, we have talked loosely about homeschooling. So, it may be an option for us it may not.

I have done some work with a couple of local home schooling organizations and frankly I have never met groups of people who were so focused getting thier children educated. It is my observation that homeschooling families have decided to take thier child's education into thier own hands. Thier reasons for doing so may vary from being a military family that moves each year, a child who has a chronic illness or a misunderstood learning disorder or exceptionally gifted. Some home school for religious reasons.I think I could count on one hand the number of people who said to me. "I wanna homeschool because schools are an evil place". If anything, homeschooling families want to work with thier community schools. After all, they pay taxes to support them too.

The focus of "educating" our children and young adults is something that a very lost concept in most public and private schools. In general,   public schools are lost in the sea of red tape, funding issues and standardized testing. Private schools are too busy trying to raise millions of dollars from thier supporters and alumni or worrying about what thier board thinks. They often carry an air of eliteness that may be completely and totally unnecssary.

The downside of homeschooling is not the "social" aspect but rather the time that it takes to plan and create a lesson. Also, the frusteration of trial and error when your child isn't learning.





strebekah,

I realize that you are probably a veteran HS parent but I found a couple of resources that may be of use to you.

http://www.theologic.com/oflweb/school/homesch1.htm

http://www.westsrbdio.org/dce/Resource%20&%20Curriculum%20Materials.htm


http://www.orthodoxed.org/
« Last Edit: February 14, 2006, 05:57:43 PM by PhosZoe » Logged
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« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2006, 01:44:06 PM »

I have to say that I find that the most common remark from people who are rather knee-jerk against Homeschooling is "What about socialization?"  It's as if they expect that homeschoolers keep the kids wrapped in cotton wool and shut in a box.  Sigh.  They haven't thought things through maybe.

But I have come across a few places who insist that homeschooling is the *only way*. 

There are fringes everywhere, I guess. 

There's no one-size-fits-every-child. 

Ebor
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« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2006, 03:28:20 PM »

I have to say that I find that the most common remark from people who are rather knee-jerk against Homeschooling is "What about socialization?"  It's as if they expect that homeschoolers keep the kids wrapped in cotton wool and shut in a box.  Sigh.  They haven't thought things through maybe.

But I have come across a few places who insist that homeschooling is the *only way*. 

There are fringes everywhere, I guess. 

There's no one-size-fits-every-child. 

Ebor

I agree. I equate it with people who ask a lifelong apparently healthy vegetarian. "Where do you get your protein?"  Roll Eyes Homeschooling families have been portrayed somewhat unfairly by media. Because it is always some zealot who lives in the hills of Utah that homeschools. The story goes something like this: Head of local church gets arrested for some petty crime then loads of other heinous things come out him and his family. Oh and by the way they homeschool their 10 children. This reinforces the negative stereotype.

Yes, there are fringes on every angle of the homeschool vs private school vs public school argument and I won't argue that there are those who believe it is homeschool or the highway. 

« Last Edit: February 15, 2006, 04:37:16 PM by PhosZoe » Logged
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« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2006, 10:43:52 AM »

All of my kids are in Public school.  There is no way we could afford private, plus my boys are in a early developmental delay program (though they are ready to go to Head Start now!) run by the schools, for free.  The system they are all in now is good.  The one before wasn't even acredited by the state.  The one up the road is not up to par in my book, from what i have heard.  So I'll stay here.  My mom was an inner city teacher, I went through public schools, and I did ok.  I personally would never consider home schooling, I freely admit I have no patience, and honestly, much as I love them,  I can't wait for them all to get on the bus so I can get my three hours of down time, though it is usally spent doing chores or errands. I stay in touch with the teachers, follow up on anythng I notice at home, and when my oldest got horrible grades on her midterms ( a straight A student getting a D?) I called all the teachers where she got a bad grade and asked what if anything they had noticed and for their opinion before I let her have it. LOL!  

I don't see anything wrong with homeschooling if you have the patience and the knowledge...but how many of us are qualified to teach calculus at home?  Does one send them off to tutors when they get older, if they progress that far, and I am curious to know if colleges accept homeschooled kids as readily as more conventially schooled ones?  I don't mean that in a bad way, it is something I always wondered.  
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« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2006, 03:19:54 PM »

I don't see anything wrong with homeschooling if you have the patience and the knowledge...but how many of us are qualified to teach calculus at home?  Does one send them off to tutors when they get older, if they progress that far, and I am curious to know if colleges accept homeschooled kids as readily as more conventially schooled ones?  I don't mean that in a bad way, it is something I always wondered.  


Again, my knowlege is completely job related but to answer your question about colleges accepting homeschool students. Those who are actually in the trenches teaching may differ from me.

 The answer is YES! Some colleges have even have admissions couselors who specialize in working with freshman level homeschool students.

Also, I am in Indiana and other states may differ. Homeschooling families have to comply with their districts days in school. For example, in Indiana there has to be 180 days of instruction per school year. Students who have completed enough days are eligible to earn a high school diploma. In other words, home school families follow the same rules as public and private schools in the number of days and subjects taught.

A common misconception is that all students who are homeschooled are taught exclusively by the parent. Indiana University has a High School Diploma (NOT a GED) that can be earned entirely at a distance. Meaning the courses are taught via the internet or print/correspondence. The student has access to a an instructor who is qualified to teach high school. Colleges and universities also offer dual credit (concurrent enrollment) early college courses and AP high school courses, many home schooled students take advantage of these opportunities not only for the "classroom experience" but to boost their portfolio.

I suggest looking at your states DOE Web Site for background information. Here are some other resources that may be of interest to you.

Indiana Foundation for Home Schooling
http://www.ifhsonline.org/

Indiana Department of Education- Home Schooling
http://www.doe.state.in.us/sservices/hse.htm

Indiana University High School Diploma
http://scs.indiana.edu/

National Home Education Network
http://scs.indiana.edu/

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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2006, 06:08:39 PM »

I'm personally a fan of homeschooling in general.  I think, here in Canada at least, the public system has become of very poor quality in recent years.  Also, discipline in the schools is very lax, leading to an unhealthy environment.  I did homeschool for one year in elementary school, and I very much enjoyed it, and learned much more than I did in my other years.
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« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2006, 07:53:37 PM »

I am a public school teacher.  After teaching in a middle school, I have decided (and am making plans to be able to) home school my youngest 2 children through middle school. (One is 5 and will probably go through 2nd grade before I pull her out, and my son will be go through 4th grade.) I think those years are especially tricky for kids and parents.  My son is looking forward to this because he knows he is a little behind his peers, and I think he feels embarrassed.  I will most likely send them back in high school to the best option I can afford at that time. I lean towards a friends school model, but am not sure that will be an option at that point.
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« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2006, 12:51:17 AM »

In our area most Orthodox use the public & RC schools.  The local RC high school just is  the best option.. and we're talking relative.. because drugs appear there as well as in the public school next door. The difference is the RC school has a zero tolerance policy on this...you get caught, you're out...  and the public schools have to take all the kids... I chose to use the RC HS after Columbine...because it conveyed safety...and the uniforms play a big role in keeping out the 'gang' mentality..   There are quite a few Orthodox students there. There are icons in every classroom,  every meeting starts with a prayer of thanks, there are projects  for the homeless...etc.  very Christ centered.  Would be great if there were an Orthodox school... but there isn't...

Home schooling was not an option for our situation...
in XC, Kizzy

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« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2006, 12:54:00 AM »

Forgot to mention my son met an Orthodox girlfriend there... go figure!!
Both still young...but an interesting happening.
in XC, kizzy
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« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2006, 12:02:33 AM »

some of the families that still have kids in school use the local RC school, as do many non religious folks.  I think it conveys safety for them as well, from what I have heard.

I have 7 children and I hs all that are school age-with the exception of our special needs child.  the doctor pressured us to use the local special education program and so we tried it out for the last few weeks of this year.  Everything in me is against it, and it's not doing much good.  Our baby is a blessing to the teachers, and she herself enjoys attention but that is about it.
I have yet to meet another real time Orthodox homeschooler.  Every hs'er I know is Prot to the core, which makes life difficult at times.
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« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2006, 12:05:02 AM »

some of the families that still have kids in school use the local RC school, as do many non religious folks.  I think it conveys safety for them as well, from what I have heard.

I have 7 children and I hs all that are school age-with the exception of our special needs child.  the doctor pressured us to use the local special education program and so we tried it out for the last few weeks of this year.  Everything in me is against it, and it's not doing much good.  Our baby is a blessing to the teachers, and she herself enjoys attention but that is about it.
I have yet to meet another real time Orthodox homeschooler.  Every hs'er I know is Prot to the core, which makes life difficult at times.

The special ed program is crucially important if done well. Sometimes the benefits are not immediately apparent.  I have known  parents who pulled their kids out and took matter in their own hands only to be sorry later on.  Though I don't know your particular situation, in general, special needs children often do not follow a straightline or predictable development path... and bumps in the road appear from nowhere.. That is when you really need assistance and without professional support you and your child could be lost.  

in XC, Kizzy
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« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2006, 08:47:35 AM »

I have stopped believing that just because a person went to college for some specific career field that they are now qualified professionals.  I live in a college town, and we had to move because our house was near college rental homes.  A walk with our kids meant explaining used condoms and syringes.  College isn't what it's cracked up to be, and a 22 yo new graduate with no experience is probably less qualfied to work with my dd's specific needs than I am, since I know her history and schedule and tendencies. Her 2 kinds of sleep apnea would probably kill and adult in no time. Anyone *could* teach me some methods to work with my dd that they employ in our one rural county special program.  Then I could drink a lot and stand on my head and party, and i would be just as qualified.  Our education system is lacking all the way through the college years.  And these are the people we entrust our special needs child to.
When the PT decides my child is ambulatory enough that she doesn't need therapy, because someone in a wheelchair needs it more-there is a fatal flaw in the school program.  it's just a few hours of babysitting where we don't have to hear her scream.  But she is enjoying it for most of the time, till she exhausts herself.  Then I get to go get her and hear her scream for a couple of hours.
Sorry to vent. this is more emotional for us since we actually have a child with special needs.  It's different looking at it from the side of a textbook or a clinic, if you are the one with the child and you have been down this path for too long.  Tired cliche's and expectations from doctors that can't see her more than every 8 mo due to case load...it's just a burden to heavy to carry.  And for what?  my child was born normal and we have no idea why she is lost to us.  no answers and she is nearly 4, but my 1yo infant is more capable than her.
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« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2006, 02:51:44 PM »

I'm sorry that you are having a bad time.  We have a "Special Needs" child.  Our youngest was diagnosed at 15 months with Down Syndrome.  Maybe we have some understanding of what you have gone through.  If you want to PM me I will be glad to communicate with you.

Our boy is 7 now.  Our county has a very good "Infants and Toddlers Program" so from 17 months to 3 y.o. he had home visits by PT, OT and Speech therapists provided with no charge, but as part of the state system.  Then he had 2 years at a school that had been started by the ARC of our county with school bus provided.  Now he is in a program ("School Community Based") at an elementary school with experienced teachers, therapists and aides.  One area the DS affected was low muscle tone so he couldn't sit by himself at 1 1/2 y.o.  Thanks to the therapists and working with him and the therapy at the schools we finished individual PT last Fall.  He can run, jump, climb, hop, through balls and frisbees better then his siblings.  It took a longer time.  But the therapy *did* work.  It *did* help.  

Now we are concentrating on his speech therapy (all the small muscles involved in that need to be trained) reading and writing.  2 years ago, he didn't look at books much.  Now he does and he gets out his home work-learning-to-write-letters book on his own.

Ebor
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« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2006, 02:43:47 PM »

Maybe there is home then, If we can come up with all the money for private therapy. I did notice my dd opened her usually closed left hand and caught then held her cup, while she reached across her body for something I was handing her. I about fell over!
It's really difficult to not even teach your typical child something and they pick it up, then a sn child comes along and they pick up NOTHING.  No matter what you do.
We don't actually know anyone else with a sn child, so we are kinda going it alone and it's lonely at times.
Dd has only been in the special program since Feb of this year, so it's early yet.  It's just odd to be in the ps system at the same time you are a die hard homeschooler!  the two venues are frequently opposed to one another.  
My prayer right now is that i can make enough money this summer for her MRI.
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« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2006, 01:01:39 PM »

I have a boy that is on one end of the autism spectrum, we are having him educationally tested later this year, to determine what if any extra help he will need when he gets to Kindergarten, which is over a year off.  The program he and his brother are in is great, its the developmental delay program, they are interacting with others and getting  speech therapy (though one boy has hearing loss, not autism.  He's improved so much!) and they tailor the therapies to the individual kids in the program. Now both boys are ready for Head start.  Seriously, if you have that many concerns about the PS programs, TELL them, maybe they can alleviate your fears by going through all the details.  And just because some kids party too much, don't judge all of them that way.  There are plenty of students who genuinely care, and are dedicated to helping these special needs kids.  And having an outside look at you kid is not a critisism of what you have been doing, but can be a great help to you and the kid, because sometimes they can see things you don't, and address them.  They did that for us.

About the MRI, do you not qualify for medical assistance?  And maybe you can for now join an online support group for whatever condition your daughter has?  There area lot out there.
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« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2006, 02:06:39 PM »

Maybe there is home then, If we can come up with all the money for private therapy. I did notice my dd opened her usually closed left hand and caught then held her cup, while she reached across her body for something I was handing her. I about fell over!

It can take a lot longer, but when your child *does* something that they couldn't do before, each step, each landmark means things are a bit better.  It does take longer.  If it's not too personal, how old is your daughter?  If she's under 3, do you have an "Infants and Toddlers" program in your state/area?  Has there been any diagnosis or idea of what your child has as SN?

Quote
It's really difficult to not even teach your typical child something and they pick it up, then a sn child comes along and they pick up NOTHING.  No matter what you do.

I *do* understand.  We've been there and even now the grandparents worry about our youngest.  Somedays we wonder if he will make it to reading or speaking clearly.  But as we tell people, "he's not stuck, he just is going to take more time and teaching to learn."

Quote
We don't actually know anyone else with a sn child, so we are kinda going it alone and it's lonely at times.
Dd has only been in the special program since Feb of this year, so it's early yet.  It's just odd to be in the ps system at the same time you are a die hard homeschooler!  the two venues are frequently opposed to one another.

Two months isn't long at all.  If you can give it a chance for a lot longer.  It takes more time for many SN children.  It can't be rushed.

There are support groups and on-line lists for many kinds of SN familes.  Soon after youngest was diagnosed, we were feeling rather hopeless and 'why can't we just fix this".  The doctor that did the diagnosis also had a social worker and other help to guide us as did the I&TP therapists.  They all said that we shouldn't think we had to do it alone.  We weren't *trained* to help with physical therapy and Speech Therapy and Occupational Therapy, but there are lots of people who *are* and they want to help. You shouldn't think that you have to do this alone.

The crucial thing is that we learned from the therapists and worked with our boy between sessions.  We rolled the ball to him or helped to stack cups or learned bits of Signed English or took him to get orthopedic inserts for his shoes when his feet needed extra support (the low muscle tone made walking feel like "he is stepping on pillows and marshmallows") and took him to the little shoe store where the clerks knew how to fit SN children with orthopedics and talked to him like like we do to the other children and lots of little things.   The therapists told me that some parents just let them do it and don't work with the child on what he/she is being taught/treated with.  

The ARC school was very good.  Have you checked to see if there is an ARC organization in your area?
Here's their main website:
http://www.thearc.org/

Ebor
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« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2006, 06:53:25 AM »

I'm not a parent, of course, but a student in a home-based program myself. One of the main reasons I chose to take this route was the academic aspect. Regular school, public and private, is just too slow. For example, physics classes will often spend an entire quarter on simple motion topics, including parabolic trajectories, friction, and angular force. That is way too slow, even for more average students. Now I can literally go as fast as I like. As for evolution vs. creation, I study both sides in my self-directed program, even moreso because I tend to fence-sit on this issue (which I rarely do, and hate to do, on anything).
This is in no way a criticism of your choice; aspects of which I agree with. However, school is also a socialising process (sometimes this itself is bad - with poor peer pressures, etc). The socialising aspects of school help people's personalities grow. (I also note here too that I recognise that the regimentation of some schools is a way of acclimatising kids for the regimented aspects of 9-5 jobs.)
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« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2006, 05:20:13 PM »

Both sides have good arguments for the socialization aspect of the discussion. One advantage of home schooling is teaching your child to more readily think for themselves in relationships, rather than caving to peer pressure, doing immoral things to fit in (e.g., making fun of others), etc. I am not, of course, saying that home schooled kids are free from these issues, but only that the environment that they learn in can more easily facilitate learning more constructive relationship-building tools.
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« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2006, 07:58:58 PM »

This is in no way a criticism of your choice; aspects of which I agree with. However, school is also a socialising process (sometimes this itself is bad - with poor peer pressures, etc). The socialising aspects of school help people's personalities grow. (I also note here too that I recognise that the regimentation of some schools is a way of acclimatising kids for the regimented aspects of 9-5 jobs.)

Well, I was in public schools before my senior year, so I've had that aspect. I can honestly say it did almost nothing for me in socialization. Only Orthodoxy was able to change my personality and make me more outgoing (I grew up as an extreme introvert)
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« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2006, 03:36:01 PM »

As others have mentioned, we have our daughters in a nearby Roman Catholic school. The public schools are so bad that sending a child there should be a misdemeanor and we certainly can't sent them to a Protestant school where the folks gasp out "Graven images!" in terror whenever they see an icon.

And since all of the local Orthodox Churches are comfortably divided into the standard ethnic patterns, none have the numbers to start their own school.
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« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2006, 11:22:42 PM »

we certainly can't sent them to a Protestant school where the folks gasp out "Graven images!" in terror whenever they see an icon.

Well now, you wouldn't have *that* particular problem at an Episcopal Church School at least.  Wink

Ebor
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« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2006, 03:55:03 PM »

Well now, you wouldn't have *that* particular problem at an Episcopal Church School at least.
No, those guys would bring in a whole list of other objections!  Cheesy
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« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2006, 09:45:13 PM »

Our neighbors homeschool their kids and they appear to have some socialization issues.  That's NOT because they are homeschooled.  It's because the parents aren't using the homeschool activities offered in our area, which are many.  The homeschool kids get an hour of serious gym time at the YMCA and language classes that put the public system to shame.

We, however, are not homeschooling out kids.  My wife just isn't cut out for it and neither am I.  
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« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2006, 10:52:51 AM »

WE currently aren't taking advantage of all the alleged "social" events for homeschoolers either.  You have to remember that hs'ers are typically single income families that are hurt even worse by the gas prices, rising grocery prices, etc.  Most of those things cost real live money, and for us anyway, we have a special needs child that is taking all the funds at the moment.  So it's not always because the parents are lousy-maybe they are just trying to survive another month before it all goes bust.
I know we are!  And not all areas have great programs available anyway.  Some areas have a lot (A LOT) of protestant groups and those can be very hostile to Orthodox homeschoolers.  We are the only O family with several kids in a city of over 80k, and surrounding counties.  We are the only hs'ers in all that as well.
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« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2006, 09:59:28 AM »

No, those guys would bring in a whole list of other objections!  Cheesy

Now, now, some Episcopal schools are solid (and definitely on the side of a good education)  Wink

Unless some of the objections are to things like: having an organ in church.....

 Grin
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« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2007, 02:23:21 PM »

Does anyone know of articles (or websites) that discuss both the positives and negatives of homeschooling in a fair and accurate manner? What do those against homeschooling say about better test scores among homeschooled students, and how do they reconcile these academic achievements with their claim that most parents are unable to properly educate their children? What do those for homeschooling say about the argument that many homeschooled kids tend to "see the same choir of people" for most of their life, rather than learning to interact with new people--both adults and children--each year? Of course, I'd love to hear some thoughts here as well.
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« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2007, 04:41:08 PM »

Guessing that you might prefer something other than religious-oriented HSing sites, I suggest you go to http://odonnellweb.com/wiki/pmwiki.php and visit the sites linked there.  That should get you started.
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« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2007, 05:15:34 PM »

After my brief break from the forum I forgot to come back and thank you for the link! So... thanks! Smiley
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« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2007, 12:05:23 PM »

Homeschooling works well when one parent is actually home with the kids.  I do not recommend it for working parents unless there is a grandparent who can supervise the child at "home school". I feel at times it is easier for a working parent to be really engaged with their child and the child's school and to re-educare/correct the education matter for their children in their Orthodox or other world views.

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« Reply #37 on: June 12, 2007, 04:23:37 PM »

I have hs'ed my children for about 12 years now.  I came through the private sector and then the public sector myself, and have seen drastic changes since that time. (not that it's that long ago!)

I am sure you can find many a link on the pro's and con's.  Anything from an NEA member is going to be decidedly negative, as they think only 20yo college graduates are capable of teaching our children.  Anything from a group like your state's homeschooling group, or HSLDA which is national is going to be negative towards the public sector and list all their proof and reasoning.  You can get either side, but you dont' tend to get honest answers from those that would remove freedom of choice and parental rights from where they belong. 

I think, as with anything, you have to have consistency.  I can, and have been forced to, get away with a great deal when life suddenly serves me a pile of bovine effluent.  My children can make up any work necessary in less time than it takes to waste on a week of sexual tolerance classes.  There is more to "deprogram" these days than there used to be.  Many of my own local teachers, despite us living in a very protestant town, were aggressive in their stance. Now with an active ACLU, pressure, fear tactics and whatnot-they can get away with being more aggressive towards parents.  I don't wish to spend my time deprogramming my children every night in the few hours I am allowed to have with them.  I have better things to do.
someone to look up is John Taylor Ghatto-you will get more information than you want.
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« Reply #38 on: June 12, 2007, 08:58:44 PM »

A reply from the rare case of both a home-school graduate and an NEA member.

I think one of the major problems with both sides of the argument is that they are always self-interested. Granted, NEA is a union, and like all unions, it seeks to lobby from the perspective of its members. We do, after all, pay their salaries. But this is not to say that NEA members are only interested in a salary. Ask any teacher, and chances are, if they say they teach for the money, they won't last five years. We don't do it for the money, and we don't do it for the summers off (some of us don't get that benefit anymore, and those of us who still do are finding that summer is shorter every year). We teach so that children will have the best opportunity to have a good life as adults. Granted, what they do after they leave our care is their choice, but as far as it depends on us, we'll help them succeed--even when it's terribly frustrating.

Anything from an NEA member is going to be decidedly negative, as they think only 20yo college graduates are capable of teaching our children. 

I respectfully disagree. Any teacher worth the taxpayers' money will say that the single greatest influence in a child's life is the parents. Teachers' lunchrooms, conventions, and staff meetings are full of discussions on how we can help parents become more involved in their children's education. We can only do so much at school; the parents will either instill a drive to succeed or convince the child that the results are not worth the effort--and either of these attitudes will carry over to adulthood.

I applaud parents who home-school or enroll their children in a private school, because by their action they prove that they really care about their child's education. My parents did, and an ACT score of 29 will prove they did a pretty good job--that was before I had ever set foot in a public school.

Twenty-year-old college graduates are good for one thing: knowing an awful lot about how children develop and using that knowledge to gain better retention of facts. Attitudes are shaped by parents. That sexual tolerance class (although I am all in favour of teaching our children tolerance) will not sink in unless the parents are in support of it. I've seen it again and again. All the education theory of all the college professors in the world means nothing unless the child has a willingness to learn, and that willingness can only be taught by parents.

I can, and have been forced to, get away with a great deal when life suddenly serves me a pile of bovine effluent. 

By the way, that is a wonderful euphemism. Cool
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« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2007, 02:48:55 PM »

It's really an issue of parental involvement in the child's education more than it is private vs. public vs. homeschooling.  Kids in private schools and homeschools do better because their parents are active in their education to a much higher degree.  There are other factors, such as private schools depend on parents' money and thus have to operate effectively or they won't exist and the ability to rid themselves of problems.  Many kids in public schools don't have the luxury of involved parents and it shows.

I like the home school concept because:
1.I don't see the need for children to be at school 7-8 hours a day.  That's not education, it's daycare.  European students spend much less time in school and out preform their American counterparts.
2.Children learn how to behave from adults (usually their parents) instead of peers in a "law of the jungle" atmosphere.
3.The absolute control over what is taught by the parent.

I do think there is some chance that homeschooled children could fall behind in the development of social skills, but I think that can be overcome by involving the children in sports and other activities at public schools.  You're paying for them, might as well get some use out of them.
The other issue I could see developing is children advancing beyond their parent's educational level.  Imagine trying to teach Trig or Calc if you didn't even get through gemotry.
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« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2007, 03:13:04 PM »

CCM08, I completely agree with your thoughts, both positive and negative!

Of course there are obvious advantages in homeschooling. Yet, I, as a college biology teacher, also see abysmally low knowledge in many of my homeschooled freshmen students. Their parents just decided that biology is "too much," and the kids never learned about DNA, genes, protein biosynthesis, cell division, etc. It's incredibly hard to teach them difficult concepts of biology when they have no knowledge about these basic things whatsoever. And very many students need biology, not only biology majors. Nursing students need it, culinary arts majors need it.
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« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2007, 05:58:35 PM »

It's really an issue of parental involvement in the child's education more than it is private vs. public vs. homeschooling.  Kids in private schools and homeschools do better because their parents are active in their education to a much higher degree. 

Agreed. Students in public schools who have good parental involvement are just as likely as students in private schools to have a good education, according to the United States General Accounting Office. Read the report here: http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d01914.pdf . The report was filed as a follow-up to the initialization of school-voucher programs in Cleveland and Milwaukee. The GAO found that students who used the voucher program fared little or no better than their counterparts who stayed in the public school system--meaning that transferring to a private school does not in itself bring about a better education.

I don't see the need for children to be at school 7-8 hours a day.  That's not education, it's daycare.  European students spend much less time in school and out preform their American counterparts.

I'm sorry, but I don't see where you're coming from. First of all, children are not at school that long. For example, my school begins the day at 8:30 and ends at 3:15. Calculate--that's 6 hrs., 45 mins. Nearly all schools in this area have similar hours: 7:30 to 2:15, 8:00 to 2:45, etc. 6 3/4 hours seems to be the standard, at least in this area--and that includes 1/2 hr. for lunch.

Second, you seem to imply that simply being in one location for a specific length of time constitutes a daycare. Would your boss (if you work outside the home) agree? Or would they want you to actually work while you're there?

Third, European students, on average, spend more time in school than Americans, not less. According to the report Organisation of School Time in Europe, Eurydice European Unit/Department of Education, Science and Training, Australian Government, STS Language Schools, European children attend no less than 180 days, with some students, such as in Denmark and the Netherlands, attend a total of 200 days. Americans generally attend school 170 days.

The studies just don't support your theories--in fact, they say just the opposite. Public schools are not worse than private or public schools, nor are they better, in and of themselves. Parental involvement is the key. Where students want to succeed, they will; where they do not, they will not. All other factors merely affect their will to succeed.
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« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2007, 12:40:14 PM »

I can't believe that homeschoolers generally don't have options as to the sciences.  We have several options for the higher science classes here and we are in a rural part of the state.  My own dd took college prep biology from a co op with a retired Biologist, a retired FBI vet taught various math and science courses...so it can be done quite easily even if I personally don't want to attempt those types of courses.  It's just like parents who send their children to public school in this regard, parents choose where their children's specific needs will best be met.  However, in the case of public school parents have far less choice in whether their teachers have qualifications or not, whether the curriculum is challenging or comprehensive enough and whether the school puts any funds towards math and science or even the arts. 
You can pull together a co op of phenomenal teachers, retirees, former teachers, and community members and come up with all sorts of expertise.  There is no excuse for leaving out certain subject areas.
When we found we were doing less in the art department, we found a tutorship program with a professional artist (or three) and a fencing instructor as well as several other options most folks tend to forget about.  I now have an English lady and her husband attending our ORthodox parish as a result of her tutoring my 8yo son in watercolor painting.  It's really amazing how interconnected we all are.  I would suggest you lend a couple days a week to a co op or tutoring program to offer your science (or any other area) of expertise.  Might sound like the "it takes a village" mantra, but in reality we will all be accountable for how we utilized our time here.
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« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2007, 08:14:12 AM »

Fencing! Cool. What a wonderful idea.
When I couldn't play football I was crushed. When parents sold their home to a US Olympic fencing team alternate, I discovered this sport, she tutored me, and I kept at it through college. Still practice - 40 years later. No way my public high school had anything like it.
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« Reply #44 on: January 11, 2008, 12:04:15 PM »


I think you have cast an unfair light on moms who no longer homeschool.  Perhaps they were ready for a new challenge or a new "career".  I've been homeschooling for 16 years.  I know I'm ready to move on and am planning to put the last two into school within the next two years (I already have an older one in school).  Some of my kids have special needs and I know my limits.  I've also been hoping to get involved with Hospice care after I'm finished with this phase of life for a very long time.  But, to me you make me sound like a homeschool dropout.  It doesn't mean I've become overwhelmed with homeschooling or because my large family has run me down.  Its just time.  If I had 3-4 kids widely spaced, I might feel the same way.

Kindest regards.

Dear Princess Mommy,

First, let me say I have the highest regard for women who have large families and also for women who homeschool. Then let me share with you that I have never homeschooled. My children have always attended public school. I didn't mean to cast mothers who homeschool in a poor light. My friends that did homeschool no longer have the energy to continue to teach as they are reaching menopause.

I guess I just want all the men out there to appreciate what women, like you, have given on behalf of your families.

With highest regard for your chosen path, Tamara  Smiley



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