Author Topic: Armenian Catholicate of Cilicia  (Read 2424 times)

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Offline surajiype

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Armenian Catholicate of Cilicia
« on: January 30, 2006, 12:10:37 AM »
What is the status of the Armenian catholicate of Cilicia vis-a-vis  the Holy See of Echtmiadzin.

Is the see of Cilicia autonomous/autocephalous.  I have heard somebody speak of it as 7th Oriental Orthodox Church.  What about the Armenian Petriarchates of Jerusalem and Constantinople.

Hope our Armenian friends can shed some light.

Regards

Suraj

Offline Salpy

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Re: Armenian Catholicate of Cilicia
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2006, 02:41:46 AM »
O.K.  My history is not as good as it should be, and this is a complicated topic.  I am sure I am going to make some mistakes, so I am hoping djrak or Ghazar will see this and correct me wherever needed.

The Armenian Orthodox Church basically has four patriarchs at the following sees:  Etchmiadzin, Cilicia, Jerusalem, and Constantinople.  The patriarchs of Etchmiadzin and Cilicia each have the title of "Catholicos."   The fact that there are four patriarchates is, in part, due to the Armenian nation's rather chaotic history. 

The four patriarchs all belong to the same Armenian Orthodox Church.  So it is not like there are four churches, rather it is just one Church with four patriarchs.

The Catholicos of Etchmiadzin is the first and "universal" patriarch.  That means the others have jurisdiction over limited geographical areas, but the Catholicos of Etchmiadzin has jurisdiction everywhere else.  That is the see which was established by St. Gregory the Illuminator in 301.  Etchmiadzin is located in what is now the Republic of Armenia.

About a thousand years ago or so, the part of the Armenian homeland where Etchmiadzin was located was invaded.  I think it was invaded by Mongols.  The Catholicos of Etchmiadzin had to flee and he went to Cilicia.  Eventually, Etchmiadzin was safe from the invaders and the Catholicosate there was restored.  However, Cilicia had had a catholicos for so long, that a separate Catholicosate was kept there, and that is the origin of the Catholicosate of Cilicia.  During the Genocide of 1915, the Armenians living in Cilicia were slaughtered or driven from their homes by the Turks.  As a result, the Catholicos of Cilicia is now located in Antelias, Lebanon.

It is my understanding that the Armenian Patriarch of Constantinople was set up at the beginning of the Ottoman Empire and his jurisdiction is over Armenians living in Turkey.

I really don't know much about the history of the Armenian Patriarch of Jerusalem, except that the Armenian community over there is quite ancient.  The Patriarch of Jerusalem, obviously has jurisdiction over the Armenians living in Israel.

Like I said above, it is a complex historical issue and I am sure I left out lots of details and got some things wrong.  Djrak and Ghazar, if you read this, please fill in the blanks!


Offline djrak

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Re: Armenian Catholicate of Cilicia
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2006, 09:02:36 AM »
The Catholicos of Etchmiadzin is the first and "universal" patriarch.  That means the others have jurisdiction over limited geographical areas, but the Catholicos of Etchmiadzin has jurisdiction everywhere else.  That is the see which was established by St. Gregory the Illuminator in 301.  Etchmiadzin is located in what is now the Republic of Armenia.
actually, Etchmiadzin is a branch that was settled in armenia later on becuase the whole church moved to cilicia when the seljuk/mongols envaded. Not that it matters but that's the history.
"Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father" - John 14:9

Offline surajiype

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Re: Armenian Catholicate of Cilicia
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2006, 12:06:50 AM »
Thanks Djrak and Salpy,

  Does the Catholicate of Cilicia acknowledge the the Catholicos-Patriarch of All Armenians as the highest ecclesial See in the Armenian Church. How are relations between the 2 sees. Do they constitute 2 seperate synods or are they understood to be One synod. In America and the New world what is the jurisdictional set up?

 My local parish in India, had 2 priests visiting from Echtmiadzin, so just asking for my own understanding.

Suraj

Offline djrak

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Re: Armenian Catholicate of Cilicia
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2006, 09:39:28 AM »
Thanks Djrak and Salpy,

  Does the Catholicate of Cilicia acknowledge the the Catholicos-Patriarch of All Armenians as the highest ecclesial See in the Armenian Church. How are relations between the 2 sees. Do they constitute 2 seperate synods or are they understood to be One synod. In America and the New world what is the jurisdictional set up?

 My local parish in India, had 2 priests visiting from Echtmiadzin, so just asking for my own understanding.

Suraj
hey Suraj, how's it goin'?
you know what this whole thing reminds me of? David, Saul and Nabal. Nabal didnt respect David cos he wasnt king (officially) but the anointing had left Saul and God had anointed David king something that could only be seen with faith.
Consequence-> death of Nabal
(1 Samuel 25)

I guess what i'm saying is it doesnt really matter, all that matters is the Lord and our faith in Him.

"Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father" - John 14:9

Offline surajiype

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Re: Armenian Catholicate of Cilicia
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2006, 09:26:53 AM »
Hi Djrak,

You are right , all that matters is the faith, sure hope I dont end up as Nabal :)

regards ,
suraj

Offline paul2004

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Re: Armenian Catholicate of Cilicia
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2006, 08:00:01 PM »
Dear Suraj, The Armenian Church of Cilicia sends representatives to all OO councils. In the middle-eastern council of OO churches (Coptic, Syrian and Armenian) the Armenian Church of Cilicia is independently represented. In the universal council of OO in 1965 (Addis Ababa) also the Cilician Church  participated seperately. In my understanding between the two Armenian jurisdictions, eventhough they are different jurisdictions, there exists a greater sense of unity. My feeling is that our Armenian brothers are good at it. They have a higher sense of identity and the need to remain united even when jurisdictions are different. BTW fomer Catholicos of All Armenians, H.H. Mar Karekin 1, was originally the Catholicos of Cilicia. They are united though functioning as two jurisdictions. In a way it is good to have a single regional jurisdiction - which is what we are struggling to achieve in India.

Peace
Paul