Author Topic: Las Vegas Nights  (Read 2151 times)

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Offline Psalti Boy

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Las Vegas Nights
« on: January 23, 2006, 09:06:04 PM »
Does anyone have any thoughts about holding Las Vegas Nights as a church fundraiser?  I'm not sure if it's one of the best sources of income for a church . . . helping people gamble.  What do the church heirarchs of the different jurisdictions think of it?

Offline GiC

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Re: Las Vegas Nights
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2006, 09:26:06 PM »
As long as you dont include craps in your evening's activities I dont see any problems from a canonical perspective. ;)

Offline Bizzlebin

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Re: Las Vegas Nights
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2006, 09:57:33 PM »
As long as you dont include craps in your evening's activities I dont see any problems from a canonical perspective. ;)

Which canons? I know the 50th from the Quinisext says

"From now on nobody, whether a clergyman or a layman, is permitted to gamble. In case anyone be caught doing this, if he be a clergyman, let him be deposed from office, but if he be a layman, let him be excommunicated."
« Last Edit: January 23, 2006, 09:57:55 PM by Bizzlebin »
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Offline GiC

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Re: Las Vegas Nights
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2006, 10:52:19 PM »
Which canons? I know the 50th from the Quinisext says

"From now on nobody, whether a clergyman or a layman, is permitted to gamble. In case anyone be caught doing this, if he be a clergyman, let him be deposed from office, but if he be a layman, let him be excommunicated."

That's a poor translation of the original, it should read 'From now on nobody, whether clergyman or layman, is permitted to play dice...'

Offline Psalti Boy

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Re: Las Vegas Nights
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2006, 11:10:48 PM »
That's a poor translation of the original, it should read 'From now on nobody, whether clergyman or layman, is permitted to play dice...'

Where can I find it to read more?

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Las Vegas Nights
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2006, 04:12:16 AM »
From what I gather, the Church is against gambling, but it's so prevalent (especially small stuff like bingo and whatnot) that no one really says anything about it. Regarding hierarchs... I don't want to bring up specifics, but an Orthodox bishop was arrested in a casino last year for something he shouldn't have done... maybe that was God's way of telling us not to go to such places. ;)

Offline Bizzlebin

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Re: Las Vegas Nights
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2006, 05:31:54 AM »
That's a poor translation of the original, it should read 'From now on nobody, whether clergyman or layman, is permitted to play dice...'

Nonetheless, the spirit of the law is the same. Due the the availability and durability of paper products at the time the canon was written, cards as we know them didn't exist, and so weren't included. Likewise, the canon that prohibits a person from going to a theatre says nothing about television, as that didn't exist either. But I think we can clearly understand what the fathers meant.
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Las Vegas Nights
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2006, 07:13:34 AM »
As long as you dont include craps in your evening's activities I dont see any problems from a canonical perspective. ;)

Just depends on the perspective of the local Church and her bishop... I could tell you that mine said no to Church raffles, but I don't know if he used this canon as a basis for that or not.
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Offline MBZ

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Re: Las Vegas Nights
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2006, 07:47:32 AM »
Hi all!

This issue comes up with us too.

I thought that the following might be interesting:

Quote
Q. Our youth group is always looking for sustainable sources of funding. In our city, non-profit organizations are allowed to host gambling activities on a limited basis. Is this an ethical way of raising money for a worthy cause? MN

A. Many religious organizations have learned that games like bingo can be a big help in balancing the budget. At the same time, it is exactly these organizations which should be sensitive to the ethical issues raised by gambling.

The Talmud identifies two distinct problems with gambling: its exploitative nature and its underworld image.

The problem of exploitation arises if the player is not adequately informed of his chances of winning or is lured into playing without his full consent. When gambling is used for fund-raising tool, then the players are aware that the "house" is making money off of them, and they are probably adequately informed as long as you are not taking an unusual or outrageous cut.

Still, consent is a problem if a player is a compulsive gambler. The gambling addict's participation is not really in his control, so his consent is not complete. So you should make sure that you are not catering to these kind of participants.

The image problem begins with the fact that people who earn money honestly are usually pretty reluctant to gamble with it. So gambling establishments tend to attract unsavory types who like to unload and show off ill-gotten gains. Let's face it; most professional gamblers have little in common with the loveable, benign Nathan Detroit character from Guys and Dolls. You probably don't want the image of your youth group to be too closely identified with real-life high-rollers.

So, if your gambling event is meant to be an entertaining evening for people who are happy to support your organization, by all means go ahead. But if you want to create a business which will cater to gambling aficionados, then you must be extra careful not to take advantage of people nor to condone gambling as a way of life. This should be considered as an emergency measure only.

You're on safe ground if everyone feels they're in a "win-win" situation: either they make a little money, or they give much-needed help to a worthy cause.

Link: http://www.aish.com/societyWork/work/The_Jewish_Ethicist_Taking_a_Chance_on_Gambling.asp

Be well!

MBZ (whose blood runs Black and Gold!)
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Las Vegas Nights
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2006, 08:38:53 AM »
MBZ (whose blood runs Black and Gold!)

You know, they do make vaccinations for parasite infestation, right?  ;)
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Offline MBZ

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Re: Las Vegas Nights
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2006, 09:11:45 AM »
Hi all!

Hmmm...

SuperBowl Sunday will Seattle's undoin'
as the Seahawks get plucked and made fit for stewin'!

 ::)

 ;)

Be well!

MBZ (whose blood runs Black and Gold!)

(We'd better get back on topic or SouthSerb99 is liable to thwack us with his Moderator's ruler!)
« Last Edit: January 24, 2006, 09:12:13 AM by MBZ »
"Peace, peace to him that is far off and to him that is near." [Isaiah 57:19]

"Gather your wits and hold on fast..." [The Who]

"Lose your dreams and you could lose your mind." [The Rolling Stones]

http://tinyurl.com/bvskq

[url=htt

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Las Vegas Nights
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2006, 11:08:16 AM »
From what I gather, the Church is against gambling, but it's so prevalent (especially small stuff like bingo and whatnot) that no one really says anything about it. Regarding hierarchs... I don't want to bring up specifics, but an Orthodox bishop was arrested in a casino last year for something he shouldn't have done... maybe that was God's way of telling us not to go to such places. ;)

Maybe he was arrested (underneath it all) for trying to persuade people out of the casino ;)

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Offline GiC

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Re: Las Vegas Nights
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2006, 11:55:31 AM »
Maybe he was arrested (underneath it all) for trying to persuade people out of the casino ;)

Hmmm, not quite the story I remember, but your version would make better press...so yeah, I'll go with it.  ;D