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Author Topic: Old Believer Books  (Read 1813 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: January 24, 2006, 05:03:25 PM »

        Does anybody know where any Old Rite music books or Trebniks are for sale ?  I understand they are somewhat available over in Russia.  I am talking about stuff written with "Kriuki" music notes.   I do know of the stuff that the Erie church sells but I am looking for old authentic ones.     Thank You
Hopeful Faithful
How can there be any earthly consecrated orthodox bishops during the age of this Great Apostasy?
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Faith: In transition to the Russian old Orthodox
Jurisdiction: The Strong Russian Old Pomorsky (Stranniki)
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An Old Faith Flag

« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2009, 03:33:50 PM »

You might try the Znammeny link towards the bottom of this page


Forgive, brother John


HIS Judgment Cometh, And That Right Soon! Mark 13:35

If any man be ignorant, let him alone be ignorant (at his own peril). 1 Cor. 14:38

Let us all hope to be found a faithful, loving bond-slave of Christ on the soon approaching Last Day.
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« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2009, 06:18:49 PM »

Do the Old Believers generally celebrate Matins immediately after Vespers (Vigil), as in current Russian practice, or does it normally follow the Midnight Office, as is the Greek practice?
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« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2009, 12:32:48 AM »

I cannot say for sure what the Old Ritualist (staro-obryadtsiy) liturgical practice is; but I doubt that they would celebrate the modern Russian style "All Night Vigil" (Vsyenochnaya Vdenie). The Vigil was adopted in Russia in the 18th century, along with the use of the Typical Psalms as Antiphons in the Liturgy. In the 17th century, Tsar Peter the Great abolished the majority of monasteries in Russia, along with other church reforms. The Old Ritualist Schism really dates from Peter's time, although the controversies that lead to that schism had been around for decades prior to that time. From the time of Peter the Great, Russian monks had to leave Russia for Athos or to the Caucasus in order to live a true monastic life.

 In the middle to late 18th century, there was a resurgence of Russian monasticism, led by monks who were trained on Athos. The use of the Typical Psalms in the Divine Liturgy and the All Night Vigils are customs that the monks imported from the Holy Mountian. By the time these liturgical customs were enacted, the Old Ritualist communities were no longer in communion with the Russian Holy Synod (Tsar Peter also abolished the Patriarchate of Moscow.)

I'm not sure that there are any contemporary books with Kriukovoi texts. The ancient manuscripts are probably all in museums. Perhaps some of them have been scanned onto the internet. I know that Anatoli Gridenko, director of the Moscow Patriarchal Choir, has collected many old manuscripts and his choir has recorded many of these texts. Several years ago, they recorded kriukovoi / znammeny chants from the Suprashl monastery in Belarus. These texts were mostly preserved in remote areas or areas outside of Russia, where the Tsarist government suppressed native chants in favor of the western style compositions of the Tsar's court chapel masters.

You might try googling Mr. Gridenko, or the Moscow Patriarchal Choir to see if there are any texts available on line. I have some xeroxed copies of the Valaam Chant book from 1890's. These are written in a lined format, but they are mostly Smaller Znammeny style chants, and local melodies. I used to have a recording (Church Music From Finland) that had a couple of tracts of recordings from the last of the old monks singing. They sang the melodies in parallel thirds with a doubled ison sung by basses.

Hope this helps

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Faith: Drevlepravoslavie (Old Orthodox) STRANNIKI
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« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2012, 03:29:50 PM »

Do the Old Believers generally celebrate Matins immediately after Vespers (Vigil), as in current Russian practice, or does it normally follow the Midnight Office, as is the Greek practice?

I think the general practice is to celebrate the "all night vigil" by praying Vespers, Matins, and First hour.

Then you go home and pray the midnight office


St. Meletius the Confessor – Submit not yourselves to monastics, nor to presbyters, who teach lawless things and evilly propound them. And why do I say only monastics or presbyters? Follow not even after bishops who guilefully exhort you to do and say and believe things that are not profitable. What
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