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Author Topic: LA Rabbi Asks Mel Gibson to Reconsider Jesus Film  (Read 2168 times) Average Rating: 0
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sinjinsmythe
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« on: March 12, 2003, 02:09:21 AM »

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=765&u=/nm/20030308/people_nm/leisure_passion_dc_4&printer=1


LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A prominent Jewish leader on Friday asked actor Mel Gibson (news) to make certain that his new film on the last 12 hours in the life of Christ does not portray the Jews as collectively responsible for the crucifixion.

   

Rabbi Marvin Hier, dean and founder of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, said he was concerned because an article to be published in the New York Times Magazine portrays Gibson as a traditionalist Catholic opposed to the reforms of Vatican (news - web sites) II.


Heir said, "Obviously, no one has seen 'The Passion' and I certainly have no problem with Mel Gibson's right to believe as he sees fit or make any movie he wants to. What concerns me, however is when I read that the film's purpose is to undo the changes made by Vatican II."


He said that Vatican conclave was convened to deal with several critical issues, including the rejection of the notion that the Jews were collectively responsible for the death of Jesus.


"If the new film seeks to undo Vatican II ... it would unleash more of the scurrilous charges of deicide directed against the Jewish people, which took the Catholic Church 20 centuries to finally repudiate," he said.


Gibson is completing the self-financed film on the last 12 hours in the life of Christ and a friend of the Gibson family is quoted as telling the Times that Gibson will graphically portray the intense suffering of Christ, "perhaps as no film has done before." Gibson is directing the film.


The friend, Gary Giuffre, a traditionalist Catholic, also said that the film will lay the blame for the death of Christ where it belongs -- a reference that some traditionalists believe means the Jewish authorities who presided over his trial, the article said.


A spokesman for Gibson had no comment, saying he had not seen the article. Sources close to the actor said Gibson's religious views and those of his family were known.


Discussing his film in a recent TV interview, Gibson was asked whether his account might particularly upset Jews. He said, "It may. It's not meant to. I think it's meant to just tell the truth."
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« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2003, 02:19:40 AM »

I think I saw somewhere that Mel commented on his work, saying that he wanted to portray Jesus's willing sacrifice, which is what it was. If people are accusing him of anti-semitism, shame on them.
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SamB
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« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2003, 11:17:11 AM »

So Vatican II now is supposed to have even drawn out an Index for Catholic filmmakers and directors?  Let's see: there are some Jesus and religious films that--horrors!--do not burst forth with the vivacity and Barney-the-dinosaur mirth of Vatican II!  By Jimminy, if one doesn't carry out the sentence that is every Catholic's, of wearing the "green shoes" and dancing with glee till he drops (I hope the allusion here successfully conjures up your memories of a porky pig cartoon featuring a pair o' leperchauns), it's to the stocks with him.

The film is liable to irk folks for two reasons (aside from irking them with the absence of subtitles, and myself with what I assume will be bad-sounding Aramaic): allegedly, the film will be quite graphic and show Christ's trial in graphic detail, reduced to a bloody pulp, and it will bear the traditional--supposedly antiSemitic--posture in laying the blame of the crucifixion on the Jewish religious authorities.  In my opinion, bad Aramaic would be the only grounds for a charge of anti-Semitism.

I hear the crowds in the film will be shouting out in the obscure Italian dialect of the Italian town where the filming is taking place.  It is supposedly an obscure rural dialect that is so distinct that most Italians wouldn't understand it, and therefore would supposedly substitute for the crowd's being unable to speak Aramaic, without this being noticed.  God, had I a direct line to Gibson, I would have contacted him before he ever started work on this production, and would have had him change course and recruit the entire Syrian village of Ma'loula for this film, both in the role of crowds and that of Jesus.  It would have been stupendous.

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« Last Edit: March 12, 2003, 12:50:07 PM by SamB » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2003, 08:53:16 PM »

So now this Rabbi encourage Catholics to support Vatican II and its changes.

This will sure strenghten the views of those who think that vatican II's reforms were pleasant to Protestants and some Jewish groups.

It is also false that christians blame ALL the jewish people for the death of Christ since modern people cannot be blamed, but it is also true that those at the time of Jesus, in the Sanedrin and in jerusalem, supported his crucifiction and his condemnation.
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2003, 09:22:56 PM »

Since the subject was brought up, I'm curious what the participants here think of this take on who was "guilty" of the crucifixion of Christ:

Quote
The Orthodox position is more profound, I believe. We say that no matter who it was who killed Christ, his guilt has been taken by Christ upon Himself. Being God He (with His Father and the Holy Spirit) is the only true source of the Cross. Thus when we say that Jews (and if you like - Romans) killed Christ we must add that their sin was taken on by Christ. That is why we cannot accuse anybody of His death. If Jews do not acknowledge that their forefathers killed God it is a matter of their freedom, we Christians with our Church Fathers can say both things - that Jews killed God and that their sin is expiated by His blood. So, only we in Christ can say that they are not guilty... It is a paradox of Judaism that until the Jews accept Christ's divinity, that they crucified God on Golgotha (God, against whom it is impossible to perpetrate an act of violence) they will remain unreconciled with God... On the other hand, if those who took no part in those events would consider anybody (Jews in particular) guilty of the death of Christ, then they are practically denying Christ's divinity. That is, like Jews, they do not recognise Him as Saviour even if they themselves claim to be Christians." - The Jewish Question In The Russian Orthodox Church

Opinions?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2003, 09:25:54 PM by Paradosis » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2003, 02:49:01 AM »

And such are the prayers of the Jews, for when they stretch forth their hands in prayer, they only remind God the Father of their sin against His Son. And at every stretching forth of their hands, they only make it obvious that they are stained with the blood of Christ. For they who persevere in their blindness inherit the blood-guilt of their fathers; for they cried out: "His blood be on us and on our children" [Mt. 27:25] (St. Basil the Great, On Prayer, Sermon IX).

I add this to the question posted before.
How must this comment by St. Basil be considered?

« Last Edit: March 13, 2003, 02:53:24 AM by Remie » Logged
Justin Kissel
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« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2003, 06:42:57 PM »

Perhaps this is indeed too controversial a subject for this time a year... mayhaps we could wait until after Lent, and then discuss the issue?
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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2003, 09:09:08 PM »

Here's an interesting tidbit....

Published by Associated Press, March 9, 2003

Mel Gibson Is Building Church for His Catholic Movement

Actor Mel Gibson's father isn't shy about admitting his belief in conspiracy theories.

March 9, 2003 (AP) -- Hutton Gibson, an 84-year-old activist and author, says he believes the World Trade Center was destroyed by "remote control," not airliners hijacked by al-Qaida terrorists. He insists that every pope in the last 50 years has been illegitimate, and he denies that six million Jews were killed in the Holocaust.

"Go and ask an undertaker or the guy who operates the crematorium what it takes to get rid of a body," the elder Gibson says in Sunday's editions of The New York Times Magazine. "It takes one liter of petrol and 20 minutes. Now, six million?"

Gibson and his son, the star of blockbuster films like "Braveheart" and "Lethal Weapon," are practitioners of an ultraconservative Catholic movement known as traditionalism. The small splinter group seeks to revive orthodox practices that were abandoned several centuries ago by mainstream Catholicism.

The actor has been especially forthcoming about his religious affiliation recently. Gibson is building a traditionalist church on a 9,300-square-foot complex in Malibu, Calif., for about 70 members, the Times said. He is serving as the director, chief executive officer and sole benefactor of the church, which intends to conduct its Sunday Mass entirely in Latin. The property was purchased by a church group called Holy Family.

In addition, Gibson is directing a film that depicts the last 12 hours in the life of Jesus Christ. The movie, "The Passion," is in production in Rome, with the actors speaking only Latin and Aramaic.

Gibson declined comment for the Times article, but at a news conference to announce the film last September, he acknowledged the difficulty in finding a U.S. studio or distributor for the project.

"Obviously, nobody wants to touch something filmed in two dead languages. They think I'm crazy, and maybe I am. But maybe I'm a genius," Gibson said.

Still, while Gibson and his father belong to the same movement, they don't necessarily share the same beliefs.

"He doesn't go along with a lot of what his father says," an unnamed church elder at Holy Family told the Times.

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James the Just
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« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2003, 11:12:10 PM »

Now I know why I liked Mel so much, however his dad may be the Mad Gibson of the family.

James
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Aklie Semaet
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2003, 11:33:46 PM »

I am happy that he is a Catholic Traditionalist and is standing firm for his beliefs in the middle of Hollywood. My already tremendous respect for him (from “The Patriot” and “Mad Max” has increased).

His father being a holocaust revisionist brings questions to my mind however. I hope this is one of the things that he does not see eye to eye on with his father.  
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« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2003, 12:41:10 AM »

And such are the prayers of the Jews, for when they stretch forth their hands in prayer, they only remind God the Father of their sin against His Son. And at every stretching forth of their hands, they only make it obvious that they are stained with the blood of Christ. For they who persevere in their blindness inherit the blood-guilt of their fathers; for they cried out: "His blood be on us and on our children" [Mt. 27:25] (St. Basil the Great, On Prayer, Sermon IX).

I add this to the question posted before.
How must this comment by St. Basil be considered?



It should be considered as the truth.

I am not an anti-Semite, believe me, but the historical facts are what they are.

Remember without anger or a desire for revenge, but remember, who the chief enemies of the Church were in the early days of the first century.

Consider the persecution of Palestinian Christians by the state of Israel today.

"I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; cf. Rev. 3:9).

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