OrthodoxChristianity.net
April 21, 2014, 03:18:49 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: The Rules page has been updated.  Please familiarize yourself with its contents!
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1 2 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Pat's at It Again  (Read 4835 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
aserb
asinner
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Self Ruled Antiochian Archdiocese
Posts: 1,188


« on: January 06, 2006, 11:09:43 AM »

Pat Robertson claims God struck Ariel Sharon down with a massive stroke because he "divided god's land."  Is he off his meds or just an insensitive idiot.  This man is not only a disgrace to Christianity but a disgrace to America!
Logged

Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!
SouthSerb99
Archbishop of Shlivo, Patriarch of All Vodkas & Defender Against All Overstepping!
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 2,800


Now Internet Forum Friendly


WWW
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2006, 11:14:05 AM »

How did I know, you'd be the one to post this?   Grin

Does he ever have anything good to say?
Logged

"Wherever you go, there you are."
 Guy from my office

Orthodox Archbishopric of Ohrid
Hungry? Click Here
StephenG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 229


« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2006, 01:00:43 PM »

This pugnacious Israeli politician is a very short and long time morbidly obese male of advanced years. His recent medical condition is more likely simply a consequence of all of the above. But then why ignore the obvious when 'silly' theories are so much more entertaining, for children and the easily lead.
Logged
Bogoliubtsy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,268



« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2006, 01:13:20 PM »

At what point did certain evangelical idiots in the United States start equating the present day "Israel" with the biblical Israel? Doesn't take a genius to see there's NO relation between the two.
Logged

"When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist". - Archbishop Hélder Pessoa Câmara
StephenG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 229


« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2006, 01:20:19 PM »

That's why I liken them to children and the easily lead, or should I simply say emotionally and intellectually immature? They not only dream but want to live in a phantasy world and recruit others to join them there.

Modern Israel is a hard nosed, secular state who happen to occupy a archeological site, and who cynically evicted the previous tenants. Of course, some even apparently think English speaking people are the lost tribe of Israel, someone once told me. Probably the same fella who told me about there being gold at the end of a rainbow.........
Logged
aurelia
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 588


« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2006, 01:37:21 PM »

Pat is a schmuck.  I doubt he knows what that means, but it is a good description.  Its a shanda for the goyim,  as my dad would say.  Wink
Logged
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,843


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2006, 02:07:43 PM »

Oh dear... one beautiful foot forward for Christianity in the public eye...
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
aserb
asinner
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Self Ruled Antiochian Archdiocese
Posts: 1,188


« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2006, 04:42:16 PM »

All your replies are great and throughly entertaining.

Brother Serb - Mir Bojie Hristos Serode (Forgive my butchering, but I have to confess, i am only half Serbian.)

Bogo -  There was a defrocked minister named Darby in the 19th or 18th century that came up with the idea of Israel. Correct me if I am wrong. He also came up with the rapture theory.
Logged

Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!
Fr. David
The Poster Formerly Known as "Pedro"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA, Diocese of the South
Posts: 2,828



WWW
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2006, 04:44:10 PM »

So, yeah, he's annoying, but I can't say I'm surprised anymore...nor does the fact that lots of folks listen to him surprise me, sadly...
Logged

Priest in the Orthodox Church in America - ordained on March 18, 2012

Oh Taste and See (my defunct blog)

From Protestant to Orthodox (my conversion story)
SouthSerb99
Archbishop of Shlivo, Patriarch of All Vodkas & Defender Against All Overstepping!
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 2,800


Now Internet Forum Friendly


WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2006, 04:45:33 PM »

Brother Serb - Mir Bojie Hristos Serode (Forgive my butchering, but I have to confess, i am only half Serbian.)

I got you loud and clear.  Voistinu se Rodi!
Logged

"Wherever you go, there you are."
 Guy from my office

Orthodox Archbishopric of Ohrid
Hungry? Click Here
BrotherAidan
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,568

OC.net


« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2006, 05:48:36 PM »

Yes Charles Darby - translated his own version of the Bible; taught the pre-tribulation rapture, the 7 year trib, the 2nd return (but actually the 3rd return , if you buy into the rapture) of Christ to chain satan and rule on earth for 1,000 years, then unleashing satan one last time, then the Great White Throne judgment, then the casting into the lake of fire, then eternity. All this PLUS the seven so-called dispensations where God dealt with mankind in differing ways. What a concept!

Popularized in the US by the Scofield Reference Bible and countless fundamentalist groups. Oh yeah, and Hal Lindsey's Late Great Planet Earth book.

Historically, in the twentieth century, until the advent of religious broadcasting and the Moral Majority, evangelicals distanced and distinguished themselves from these groups. Most evangelicals are amillenllialists (no literal thousand year earthly reign, but the millenium referring to the final eschaton, but nonetheless with a reality in the present - the whole concept of the kingdom of heaven being already, but not-yet) [rather than pre-millenialists, although some evangelicals are pre-millenialists but without the dispensational nonsense, nor the pre-trib rapture and all the other extra-curricular activity Darby postulated).

One of the worst commandeerings of language by the mass media was to dump all evangelicals in with the fundamentalists and charasmatic whackos  the religious right political groups.

Most evangelicals are rather sober-minded and also are careful thinkers (see Fuller Seminary in California, Gordon-Conwell Seminary in Massaschusetts, Trinity Evangelical Divinity School in Chicago).

Of all the non-Orthodox Christians, we Orthdox can probably find the most affinity out in the general culture with such serious minded evangelicals
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 06:08:45 PM by BrotherAidan » Logged
StephenG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 229


« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2006, 07:17:12 PM »

The one thing Mr Robertson appears not to be is a serious anything, except possibly a prat!
Logged
aserb
asinner
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Self Ruled Antiochian Archdiocese
Posts: 1,188


« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2006, 08:12:06 PM »

BRO AIDIN

Thank you for your well writen reply.
Logged

Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!
JoeS
(aka StMarkEofE)
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,122


Global Warming Enthusiast.


« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2006, 08:32:32 PM »

So, yeah, he's annoying, but I can't say I'm surprised anymore...nor does the fact that lots of folks listen to him surprise me, sadly...

Hey, this is what happens when you go "Sola Scriptura".

Logged
aserb
asinner
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Self Ruled Antiochian Archdiocese
Posts: 1,188


« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2006, 08:40:35 PM »

So true JoeS  So True
Logged

Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!
Asteriktos
Pegleg J
Protostrator
***************
Offline Offline

Faith: Like an arrow to the knee
Posts: 27,243



« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2006, 10:13:37 PM »

I'm afraid I don't understand how anything discussed in this thread could be the logical or necessary conclusion of sola scriptura  Huh
Logged

I'll bet I look like a goof.

"And since when have Christians become afraid of rain?"
aserb
asinner
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Self Ruled Antiochian Archdiocese
Posts: 1,188


« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2006, 01:50:24 AM »

Asterikos

I think what we are referring to is that Pat Robertson believes in Sola Scriptura and has abandoned the wisdom of the church's authority and interpretation of the Holy Bible. Therefore, he is left to interpret the Holy Book himself or to pick and choose from a whole host of interpretations. The consequences of this is erroneous thinking or erroneous theology which ----------- leads him to make erroneous statements if not flat out stupid and embarrassing. In the case of his statement on Ariel Sharon's health -------------- rude and insensitive.
Logged

Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!
StephenG
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 229


« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2006, 01:39:58 PM »

I doubt if someone as tough, and with as bloody a past, as Mr Sharon would give a fig for the opinion of a two bit commentator - were he aware of the remarks.

Mr Sharon has a lot to answer for and has he himself shown very lift sensitivity to both the Palestinians and to his political opponents over the years.
Logged
MBZ
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 160


« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2006, 03:41:21 PM »

Hi all!

Here's my letter to ol' Pat:
__________

Dear Rev. Robertson,

I was very distressed to see that you have run off at the mouth once again and that you have relapsed into this terrible disease of speaking first and thinking only afterward (if at all).

Let's get one thing clear. As an orthodox Jew living in Israel & a registered Republican (I'm still a US citizen too), I value your support, and that of the evangelical Protestant community, for Israel very much. So please understand where I'm coming from.

PM Sharon's stroke is a punishment from God for implementing the Disengagement Plan? You know this? The Almighty has allowed you to glance at his account books (so to speak)?

That PM Sharon's stroke was the will of God is something that no person ought to question (What happens in this world that is not the will of God?), but why God willed that this should happen is something that is simply beyond human ken. You don't have a clue (nor can you), none of us do. You of all people should know that there are certain things that are simply beyond our human ability to grasp & that we'll never be able to figure out. Me? I look at Deuteronomy 29:28

Quote
"The secret things belong unto the Lord our God..."
,

 
Psalm 131:1-2

Quote
Lord, my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty; neither do I exercise myself in things too great, or in things too wonderful for me. Surely I have stilled and quieted my soul; like a weaned child with his mother; my soul is with me like a weaned child."
,

Isaiah 55:9

Quote
For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts."
,

and Job 38:2-4

Quote
Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now your loins like a man; for I will demand of you, and declare you unto Me. Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if you have the understanding!

whenever I feel myself getting too big for my spiritual britches. How wonderful it must be for you to live in a world in which the ways of such as God are not inscrutable but are plain and laid open to such as you to the extent that you know what He does and why. A rabbi in our old neighborhood in Jerusalem (a very soft-spoken, modest & unassuming man; maybe you could learn something from this) calls people such as yourself "God's pockets" because God is in your pocket.

Also, it is interesting that you pontificate on what my Prime Minister should do in my country from safe & faraway Virginia. I pay taxes here. I vote here. In 10 years my wife & I will have to drive our son to an IDF induction center. Ariel Sharon has spent his entire life as a soldier & warrior defending, with his blood & his life, a place you only know from books or that you may have visited on occasion. How dare you pronounce on his life like you have? Who are you to judge him? Shame on you!

Sincerely yours,
__________

I imagine that most conservative/fundamentalist Protestants (not the caricatures like ol' Pat that the media fawns on because loonies make for good ratings while staid moderates generally don't) are cursing ol' Pat for neatly confirming whatever prejudices people have against conservative/fundamentalist Protestants as being shoot-from-the-hip, talk-first-and-think-later, simplistic primitives.

PM Sharon is in the neurosurgery intensive care unit at Hadassah-Ein Kerem Hospital in Jerusalem (the hospital overlooks the former village, and current neighborhood of Ein Kerem, where John the Baptist was born, two churches mark the spot; see http://www.christusrex.org/www2/baram/B-baptist.html & http://www.jerusalem.muni.il/jer_main/f1_main.asp?lng=2).

On Thursday I was in a real state.  The whole day, I felt like I was about to cry. Every now and then tears would just well up in my eyes. I felt awful. We were all just watching the TV news & waiting.  The news is a little better (see http://www.haaretzdaily.com for firsthand news, in English). I went through the whole of Shabbat (the Sabbath; see http://www.jewfaq.org/shabbat.htm), wondering whether, when I put the news on after nightfall, if my Prime Minister would be alive or dead. I live in a religious neighborhood (http://jr.co.il/ma/pic/ma012.htm) & thus couldn't rely on a non-religious neighbor for news.

Be well!

MBZ
Logged

"Peace, peace to him that is far off and to him that is near." [Isaiah 57:19]

"Gather your wits and hold on fast..." [The Who]

"Lose your dreams and you could lose your mind." [The Rolling Stones]

http://tinyurl.com/bvskq

[url=htt
MBZ
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 160


« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2006, 10:07:57 AM »

Hi all!

Even if PM Sharon survives, he'll never recover, at least not well enough to return to active politics & leadership.  Acting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/07/international/middleeast/07olmert.html & http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060107/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_olmert_s_views_1) is it.  By default, he will be the one to lead Kadima in the March 28 elections, for good or ill.  Kadima barely exists and can ill afford a leadership contest (bruising or otherwise) right now.  Under Sharon, Kadima would've been a benevolent dictatorship.  Olmert does/will not have that kind of gravitas and status.  At best, he will be primus inter pares.  The collection of (mainly, but not exclusively, ex-Likud) cast-offs & refugees known as Kadima will now have to put together a platform and a list of candidates from scratch, among themselves, in a collective effort (instead of accepting Sharon's fiat), without letting their egos get in the way.  I think (I'm hoping!) that they'll be able to pull it off because these people have just been thrown headlong into the deep water.  They've got to learn to swim (and fast) or drown.  They've long since crossed their political Rubicons & there's no going back (to Likud, Labor, wherever) for them.  They've got to get organized as Kadima, make Kadima work and move forward because the alternative is political oblivion & I think that the prospect of political oblivion can be a powerful kick-in-the-backside.  Likud has veered to the right.  Labor is led by a non-entity & is spouting the dead platitudes of Oslo as if the past 5 years of violence never happened.  There is/was a large potential constituency for Kadima.  Olmert & Co. will have to capture as much of the tremendous confidence that this constituency had in Sharon as they can & hope that the people who were prepared to follow Sharon will be willing to give them a try.  Personally, I've never liked Olmert much.  I thought he was a lousy mayor of Jerusalem.  But I've got nowhere else to go & to quote Messrs. Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, "If you can't be with the one you love, then love the one you're with."  Olmert's it.  I just hope & pray that he and his Kadima colleagues can rise to the occasion.  Here's some American history for you.  I'm hoping that Ehud Olmert will show himself to be something like US Pres. Chester Arthur, i.e. a political hack who became leader by default & transformed himself into quite the statesman (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester_A._Arthurp).

This http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1070-1976381,00.html is the best op-ed/analysis piece I've seen to date on recent events.

Be well!

MBZ
Logged

"Peace, peace to him that is far off and to him that is near." [Isaiah 57:19]

"Gather your wits and hold on fast..." [The Who]

"Lose your dreams and you could lose your mind." [The Rolling Stones]

http://tinyurl.com/bvskq

[url=htt
BrotherAidan
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,568

OC.net


« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2006, 12:54:07 PM »

The BIGGER problem with Pat and those of his ilk is not so much sola scriptura (the sober minded evangelicals I referred to in my earlier post would ascribe to that, although not slavishly). THE PROBLEM with Pat and his boys is that, as charasmatics, they THINK they get personal revelations from God; they think they get "prophetic words" from God and receive "discernment" -- a sort of clairvoyance. It's all entirely subjective and between the individual's two ears, in his own head.

I have as much chance for the anchovies from last night's pizza to "speak" to me (I mean something's going on inside me, right?) as these guys receiving a special "word" from God!
« Last Edit: January 09, 2006, 12:58:26 PM by BrotherAidan » Logged
BrotherAidan
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,568

OC.net


« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2006, 02:44:41 PM »

BTW thanks MBZ for your informative remarks and links
Logged
Timos
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 856



« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2006, 02:50:37 PM »

I have satellite and as such we get american, European, and Middle East stations. I tunedi n one day to LBC (Lebanese) chanel and a Palestinian Orthodox bishop (or a Greek bishop who speaks Arabic fluently) was being interviewed and he stated that Pat has "nothing to do with Christianity" and that his way of thinking/dealing is not Christian at all. He also went on to expound on the theological importance of Bethlehem and the Birth of Christ. (according to my parents who understand a fair bit of arabic having lived there).
Logged
donkeyhotay
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 106

"God, Who provides for all, will not desert us"


« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2006, 05:28:19 PM »

Yes Charles Darby - translated his own version of the Bible; taught the pre-tribulation rapture, the 7 year trib, the 2nd return (but actually the 3rd return , if you buy into the rapture) of Christ to chain satan and rule on earth for 1,000 years, then unleashing satan one last time, then the Great White Throne judgment, then the casting into the lake of fire, then eternity. All this PLUS the seven so-called dispensations where God dealt with mankind in differing ways. What a concept!

You got everything right except the name.  John Nelson Darby was the father of Dispensationalism.

John Nelson Darby was NOT the progenitor of Anglo-Israelism.

In modern times, one of the biggest promoters of Anglo-Israelism was Herbert W. Armstrong, founder of the Worldwide Church of God.  However, that church rejected this idea about ten years ago.

Hmmm.  What's Pat going to do if Sharon makes a miraculous recovery?   Cheesy
« Last Edit: January 09, 2006, 06:04:41 PM by donkeyhotay » Logged

A dog is better than I am, for he has love and does not judge.
-Abba Xanthias
aserb
asinner
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Self Ruled Antiochian Archdiocese
Posts: 1,188


« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2006, 05:31:10 PM »

Brother Timos:

I agree with the Palestinian Orthodox Bishop; however, Mr. Robertson holds sway over many people who call themselves "Christian." There was an article in the Sunday edition of the New York Times that stated that despite his ludicrous statements as of late that he still has the ear of many people. As Brother Aidan noted he is a charismatic and believes that he gets personal revelation. While I believe in personal revelation, I do not believe that God hands it out quickly or easily or to a self-appointed select person.

Thank you for your posts.
Logged

Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!
BrotherAidan
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,568

OC.net


« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2006, 06:19:55 PM »

Good point on revelations Aserb!
I also beleive many (if not all) of the saints received revelation and also certain staretzes (staretzi?) in terms of clairvoyance, telling people their sins etc.
But it didn't come to them in luxurious tv studios, but rather through years or decades of ascetic devotion
Logged
aserb
asinner
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Self Ruled Antiochian Archdiocese
Posts: 1,188


« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2006, 11:19:42 PM »

Amen and Amen Brother Aidan
Logged

Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!
Timos
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 856



« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2006, 12:30:46 AM »

good point. I forgot that people would rather think *WE* are the loonies rather than Pat.
Logged
MBZ
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 160


« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2006, 10:04:11 AM »

Hi all!

Well, well, well...Pat's ill-considered words are coming back to haunt him now...

Quote
Last update - 14:14 11/01/2006

Tourism Min.: Pat Robertson's Sharon bashing endangers $50m deal

By News Agencies

Israel will not sign a $50 million tourism partnership with evangelical broadcaster Pat Robertson, to protest his suggestion that the stroke suffered by Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was God's punishment for withdrawing from the Gaza Strip, a tourism ministry spokesman said Wednesday.

The ministry was to have signed the deal with Robertson and a group of other evangelical leaders, committing the government to providing land and infrastructure for a Christian Heritage Center in the Galilee. Robertson's group would have raised $50 million in funding.

The center was to be tucked away in 35 acres of rolling Galilee hills, near key Christian sites such as Capernaum, the Mount of the Beatitudes, where tradition says Jesus delivered the Sermon of the Mount, and Tabgha - on the shores of the Sea of Galilee - where Christians believe Jesus performed the miracle of the loaves and fish.

But spokesman Jonathan Pulik said Tourism Minister Avraham Hirchson, a close political ally of the stricken premier, would not sign any agreement with Robertson after the evangelist linked the January 4 stroke and hemorrhage that has left the premier fighting for his life to Sharon's withdrawal of Israeli troops and settlers from the Gaza Strip last year.

"The prophet Joel makes it very clear that God has enmity against those who divide my land," Robertson said during his television show.

"For any prime minister of Israel who decides he is going to carve it up and give it away, God says 'no, this is mine,'" Robertson added.

"I would say woe unto any prime minister of Israel who takes a similar course to appease the EU, the United Nations, or the United States of America," Robertson said.

Israel was considering leasing the land to the Christians for free. Hirschson predicted it would annually draw up to 1 million pilgrims who would spend $1.5 billion in Israel and support about 40,000 jobs.

Another Tourism Ministry spokesman, Ido Hartuv, left the door open to continuing the project - but only with people who don't back Robertson's statements.

"We want to see who in the group supports his [Robertson's] statements. Those who support the statements cannot do business with us. Those that publicly support Ariel Sharon's recovery ... are welcome to do business with us," Hartuv said. "We have to check this very, very carefully."

Link: http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/669070.html

Be well!

MBZ
Logged

"Peace, peace to him that is far off and to him that is near." [Isaiah 57:19]

"Gather your wits and hold on fast..." [The Who]

"Lose your dreams and you could lose your mind." [The Rolling Stones]

http://tinyurl.com/bvskq

[url=htt
aurelia
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 588


« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2006, 10:20:04 AM »

That was very entertainning to read, thanks MBZ!!!
Logged
aserb
asinner
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Self Ruled Antiochian Archdiocese
Posts: 1,188


« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2006, 02:56:03 PM »

Thank you MBZ.  THere is justice in this world!
Logged

Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!
Kapitanios Michalis
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOARCH
Posts: 29


« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2006, 06:42:42 PM »

After putting his foot in his mouth, Pat has officially apologized.  Now if only Oral Roberts 900 foot God would come and take Pat! j.k.:

Robertson Apologizes for Sharon Remarks By BRIAN MURPHY, AP Religion Writer
 51 minutes ago
 


Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson has sent a letter apologizing for suggesting that Ariel Sharon's massive stroke was divine punishment for pulling Israel out of the Gaza Strip.

Robertson's comments drew widespread condemnation from other Christian leaders, President Bush and Israeli officials, who canceled plans to include the American evangelist in the construction of a Christian tourist center in northern Israel.

In a letter dated Wednesday and marked for hand delivery to Sharon's son Omri, Robertson called the Israeli prime minister a "kind, gracious and gentle man" who was "carrying an almost insurmountable burden of making decisions for his nation."

"My concern for the future safety of your nation led me to make remarks which I can now view in retrospect as inappropriate and insensitive in light of a national grief experienced because of your father's illness," the letter said.

"I ask your forgiveness and the forgiveness of the people of Israel," Robertson wrote.

The 77-year-old prime minister suffered a devastating stroke Jan. 4 and remained hospitalized Thursday in critical but stable condition.

The day after Sharon's stroke, Robertson suggested he was being punished for pulling Israel out of the Gaza Strip last summer. The pullout was seen by many evangelical groups as a retreat from biblical prophecy of Jewish sovereignty over the area.

"God considers this land to be his," Robertson said on his TV program "The 700 Club." "You read the Bible and he says 'This is my land,' and for any prime minister of Israel who decides he is going to carve it up and give it away, God says, 'No, this is mine.'"

Despite the apology, it was doubtful Robertson would be brought back into the fold of the proposed Christian Heritage Center in the northern Galilee region, where tradition says Jesus lived and taught.

The exclusion carries a special irony for a preacher who helped define television ministries: The planned complex is to include studios and satellite links for live broadcasts from the Holy Land.

Rami Levi, director of marketing for Israel's tourism ministry, told The Associated Press that the government remains "outraged" by Robertson's remarks.

Israel's tourism minister, Abraham Hirchson, said Wednesday that Robertson's help was no longer welcome for the proposed center.

"But, of course, we continue full engines ahead to construct it because the Christian community around the world — the evangelical community — are friends," said Levi, who is responsible for coordinating tourism contacts between Israeli groups and other faiths around the world.

Christian groups, particularly evangelical congregations from the United States, have become an important source of revenue and political influence.

Evangelicals funnel millions of dollars each year to Jewish settlers in the West Bank and provide aid for those evicted from Gaza. They also represent an essential component of the estimated $4 billion in tourist revenue expected this year.

Levi said groundbreaking on the center could come early this year and the first buildings could be finished within two years. The complex will include an amphitheater and broadcast facilities near key Christian sites, including Capernaum, the Mount of the Beatitudes, where Jesus delivered the Sermon on the Mount, and Tabgha on the shores of the Sea of Galilee, where Christians believe Jesus performed the miracle of the loaves and fish.

Hirchson had predicted it would draw up to 1 million pilgrims a year, generate $1.5 billion in spending and support about 40,000 jobs. Robertson was leading a group of evangelicals who have pledged to raise the $50 million needed to build the site.

But Levi said there was "more than enough outreach" to other Christian groups to meet the funding.

"The government does not rely on one person in constructing such a site, which is important to the Christians around the world," said Levi.

Levi suggested that an apology from Robertson would not get him back on the project, but he said that Hirchson did not exclude cooperation with Robertson on other fronts.

"We love to do joint projects with people. But we are also human beings and we have feelings and we think our partners should consider that at times — especially times like this — that statements like this hurt," said Levi.
Logged
aserb
asinner
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Self Ruled Antiochian Archdiocese
Posts: 1,188


« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2006, 10:07:00 AM »

So Pat apologized. He apologized for his calling for the assassination of Hugo Chavez. So he's human. But he's human with a television program. Damage is done on a larger scale. If I wish some major world leader ill ---- who cares. But a national celebrity (that's what he is) that is different. He needs to learn to think first. You think that at his age he would have developed wisdom by now.
Logged

Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!
Fr. George
formerly "Cleveland"
Administrator
Stratopedarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox (Catholic) Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Metropolis of Pittsburgh
Posts: 19,843


May the Lord bless you and keep you always!


« Reply #33 on: January 13, 2006, 10:15:44 AM »

I'd probably add to aserb that we need to also change the way people look at TV celebrities and such - many people think that just because someone is on TV (or writes a book, or does stuff on the 'net) that they are automatically an authority, and should be listened to...
Logged

"The man who doesn't read good books has no advantage over the one who can't read them." Mark Twain
---------------------
Ordained on 17 & 18-Oct 2009. Please forgive me if earlier posts are poorly worded or incorrect in any way.
SouthSerb99
Archbishop of Shlivo, Patriarch of All Vodkas & Defender Against All Overstepping!
Site Supporter
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian Orthodox Church
Posts: 2,800


Now Internet Forum Friendly


WWW
« Reply #34 on: January 13, 2006, 10:49:13 AM »

So Pat apologized. He apologized for his calling for the assassination of Hugo Chavez. So he's human. But he's human with a television program. Damage is done on a larger scale. If I wish some major world leader ill ---- who cares. But a national celebrity (that's what he is) that is different. He needs to learn to think first. You think that at his age he would have developed wisdom by now.

Pat knows exactly what he's doing.ÂÂ  Can't get the toothpaste back in the tube once it has been squirted out.ÂÂ  The apology is just window dressing IMHO.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2006, 10:49:31 AM by SouthSerb99 » Logged

"Wherever you go, there you are."
 Guy from my office

Orthodox Archbishopric of Ohrid
Hungry? Click Here
Kapitanios Michalis
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOARCH
Posts: 29


« Reply #35 on: January 13, 2006, 11:24:42 AM »

Pat knows exactly what he's doing.ÂÂÂ  Can't get the toothpaste back in the tube once it has been squirted out.ÂÂÂ  The apology is just window dressing IMHO.

Great analogy!
Logged
BrotherAidan
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,568

OC.net


« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2006, 03:23:40 PM »

Pat's not sorry
the money is on the line and he's trying to save the deal
the Israelis took the bid off the table and he's trying to salvage it
read his statement, he says, in concern for the land he said he said insensitive things; he apologized for zeal and bad timing; he didn't relly 'fess up to the idiocy and megalomania of his statements because he really belives God speaks to him and that he in turn speaks for God

these kind of people made me sick as an evangelical protestant and they make me just as sick now

it's just that as an Orthodox Christian is is a bit easrier to distance myself from such whackos now

He will continue to say this stuff; people like him don't get wiser; they only become more deceived
He's David Koresh in a suit; because he's been a bit more subtle and saavy and built a tv empire and sponsored a few valid ministries to help the poor, rather than prey upon misfit college age kids and invite them to a commune...the difference is a thin line. How many old people on social security have been sending him checks over the years?

Okay, that's probably a harsh comparison and a bit over the top

But the sad thing about tv celebrity "christianity" in the past thirty years is that leaders that formerly would have been seen as cult-leaders, somehow weasle their way into the evangelical mainstream, at least in the media and general public's eyes
Logged
JoeS
(aka StMarkEofE)
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,122


Global Warming Enthusiast.


« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2006, 05:56:03 PM »

I'm afraid I don't understand how anything discussed in this thread could be the logical or necessary conclusion of sola scripturaÂÂ  Huh

I believe I heard Pat say on his program that it was very plain in the bible that this land must not be split apart and by Sharon making this split he has angered God resulting in this misfortune of ill health.   

Of course we know this is not the way God works.  Sharon is hardly a poster boy for Holiday Spas.
Logged
aserb
asinner
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Self Ruled Antiochian Archdiocese
Posts: 1,188


« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2006, 11:39:50 PM »

Quote
I'd probably add to aserb that we need to also change the way people look at TV celebrities and such - many people think that just because someone is on TV (or writes a book, or does stuff on the 'net) that they are automatically an authority, and should be listened to...

Sigh -- alas this will not change anytime soon. Your observation is so true my brother.

Quote
Pat knows exactly what he's doing.  Can't get the toothpaste back in the tube once it has been squirted out.  The apology is just window dressing IMHO.

This too I believe to be true. He's dumb like a fox!

Quote
He will continue to say this stuff; people like him don't get wiser; they only become more deceived
He's David Koresh in a suit; because he's been a bit more subtle and saavy and built a tv empire and sponsored a few valid ministries to help the poor, rather than prey upon misfit college age kids and invite them to a commune...the difference is a thin line. How many old people on social security have been sending him checks over the years?

Okay, that's probably a harsh comparison and a bit over the top

I don't think that it is over the top. I think you show righteous anger. We as Orthodox are called to give alms to the poor not take it from them. Old people on SSI aren't the richest people in town. Where I leave they have an anonymous Christmas gift program for the elderly. You know what most of them asked for?  Gift certificates to the local grocery store.  IN AMERICA.
Logged

Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!
observer
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 546

Vivre die Raznitsa!


« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2006, 12:18:17 AM »

According to Olive Tree Ministries, Sharon is the bad guy.  He gave Gaza back to the Palestinians thus divided the chosen land reserved soley for the Jews.  For this he is probably being punished - divine retribution.  And GB better watch out - if he continues to subscribe to replacement theology  i.e. claiming that the Christian church is the New Israel. Roll Eyes
Logged

Thou shalt not prefer one thing to another (Law of Liberalism)
MBZ
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 160


« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2006, 04:35:46 PM »

Hi all!

Fresh from Ha'aretz's website:

Quote
Last update - 13:48 14/01/2006

Israel reconsiders decision to cut ties with Robertson after apology

By The Associated Press

Israel is reconsidering its decision to break off contacts with Pat Robertson over the construction of a Christian heritage park after the U.S. evangelist apologized for saying Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's massive stroke was divine retribution, a spokesman said Saturday.

Israel and Robertson had been close to finalizing a deal to build the multimillion dollar tourist attraction when the broadcaster said last week that Sharon had been punished by God for pulling Israel out of the Gaza Strip in September. The comments prompted Israel to call off talks with Robertson over the deal.

Robertson issued an apology, which Israel accepted on Friday.

"In light of the apology and his expression of sorrow over Sharon's health, we will reconsider our decision," said Ido Hartuv, a spokesman for Tourism Minister Abraham Hirchson.

Israel's relations with the evangelical Christian community remain strong, Hartuv said. "We really love them," he said.

Sharon suffered the stroke on Jan. 4, and he remained comatose in "critical but stable" condition Saturday.

The day after the stroke, Robertson suggested he was being punished for pulling Israel out of the Gaza Strip last summer. The pullout was seen by many evangelical groups as a retreat from biblical prophecy of Jewish sovereignty over the Holy Land.

"God considers this land to be his," Robertson said on his TV program "The 700 Club." "You read the Bible and he says 'This is my land,' and for any prime minister of Israel who decides he is going to carve it up and give it away, God says, 'No, this is mine."'

In a letter of apology sent to Sharon's family, Robertson said his remarks had been "inappropriate and insensitive" and asked for forgiveness.

Israel hopes to attract 1 million pilgrims every year to the park, which will be built near the Sea of Galilee close to sites where Christians believe Jesus preached and performed miracles.

Under the emerging agreement, Robertson would lead a group of Christians from around the world to build a broadcast center, an open-air chapel and an auditorium for re-enacting Jesus' journeys in the area. The groundbreaking project is slated to begin early this year.

Link: http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/670183.html

On the other hand, why should the many Israelis (including Christian Arabs who live in the Galilee) who would benefit from the boon of having another 1 million $-spending tourists in the country lose out because ol' Pat has foot-in-mouth disease?

Be well!

MBZ
Logged

"Peace, peace to him that is far off and to him that is near." [Isaiah 57:19]

"Gather your wits and hold on fast..." [The Who]

"Lose your dreams and you could lose your mind." [The Rolling Stones]

http://tinyurl.com/bvskq

[url=htt
JoeS
(aka StMarkEofE)
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,122


Global Warming Enthusiast.


« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2006, 06:17:09 PM »

Here's looking forward to Pat's next silver tongued statement.

JoeS  Roll Eyes
Logged
aserb
asinner
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Self Ruled Antiochian Archdiocese
Posts: 1,188


« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2006, 10:31:55 PM »

Joe

Part of me says yes! Because it will make for great discussion here. But part of me says no. No more lunatic fringe statements that bring embarassment to the US and to Christianity.  :'(
Logged

Save us o' Son of God, who art risen from the dead, as we sing to thee Alleluia!
ozgeorge
I'll take you for who you are if you take me for everything.
Hoplitarches
*************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Oecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, the New Rome, the Great Church of Christ.
Posts: 16,382


My plans for retirement.


WWW
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2006, 11:02:40 PM »

[bible]Romans 2:24[/bible]
Logged

If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.
JoeS
(aka StMarkEofE)
Site Supporter
OC.net guru
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,122


Global Warming Enthusiast.


« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2006, 12:18:15 AM »

Joe

Part of me says yes! Because it will make for great discussion here. But part of me says no. No more lunatic fringe statements that bring embarassment to the US and to Christianity.ÂÂ  :'(

Pat has done this many times in the past. I dont see him reforming anytime soon.  He has a very large image of himself and I think this is part of the problem.
Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1 2 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.13 seconds with 72 queries.