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Author Topic: Standing during Divine Liturgy  (Read 13896 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #90 on: February 22, 2006, 06:50:52 PM »

I was waiting for someone to throw this in but no one has yet:

The fact is is that we are all humans and are, then, susceptible to typical human behaviors which do include judging another based on their type of clothing.  Regardless of how many times or in what ways we manage to fashion our hefty arguments there will be people who will be bothered by a pair of jeans in church.  The challenge is, then, to not view these sorts of trivial annoyances as some sort of unwritten dogma given to the Yiayias to enforce but to accept them for what they are, tradition, and go about our merry way TRYING (with prayer, o'course) to not let us judge others, so that we may not be judged.

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« Reply #91 on: February 22, 2006, 09:50:14 PM »

I was waiting for someone to throw this in but no one has yet:

The fact is is that we are all humans and are, then, susceptible to typical human behaviors which do include judging another based on their type of clothing.  Regardless of how many times or in what ways we manage to fashion our hefty arguments there will be people who will be bothered by a pair of jeans in church.  The challenge is, then, to not view these sorts of trivial annoyances as some sort of unwritten dogma given to the Yiayias to enforce but to accept them for what they are, tradition, and go about our merry way TRYING (with prayer, o'course) to not let us judge others, so that we may not be judged.

Zoe,

Yes, tradition with the lower-case 't'. Probably a good idea for us all to remember that these issues are not of capital 'T' importance. And there's always going to be someone annoyed by something. If not clothing, it will be something else.
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« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2006, 10:08:56 PM »

Wow...I would have paid to see something like that...haha.  Especially if what that lady told you was accurate.  You should see some of the things my dad told people...haha.
ÂÂ

The point being, I wasn't interested in hearing it from anywhere but the horse's mouth. If it had been so, that's life! No biggy. I can't imagine that a refusal would have psychologically scarred me for life. Grin

Quote
And the headscarf with confession thing...that's a new one in my book.  NEVER have I heard that, except for at the monastery, but that makes sense.

Well, we all know how reliable the "Babushka Police" are.ÂÂ

Quote
And doesn't it make you wonder, if that preist is willing to "pass" the rules just for you cuz "you're from a different parish" and the theology doesn't apply to you, then why should it apply to the ones IN the parish?  Are they different than you?  How?  All good questions...Too bad most serbian priests never abide by the rules they set upon people.

From what I saw he seemed very willing to "pass" the rules regarding the head scarf for women in his congregation. I'm not even sure that he, particularly, had any. Obviously, some of the Serbian women wore them, but most didn't. And there were many ethnic groups attending the parish, not only Serbians. What he was doing, in fact, was allowing people to make the decision about this 'tradition' for themselves rather than forcing "piety" upon them. I'd take my hat off to him, if I ever wore one.  Tongue
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« Reply #93 on: February 22, 2006, 10:16:25 PM »

I'm not necessarily "scandalized", but when the chic in front of me bends down to get a dollar out of her purse and her T-back underwear creep out of her too tight pants-I am at least distracted. It's not a fashion show people. It applies to both sexes though...I have seen young men lately with shirts and pants too tight as well.

Might I suggest you get some blinders. They are quite successful in keeping horses from being distracted.  Cheesy Cheesy

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« Reply #94 on: February 22, 2006, 10:28:26 PM »

Glad the Canons stick but St. Paul is irrelevant here...like Snoop says-"drop it like it's hot... Cool"

Like who says? In any case, Paul was addressing a specific cultural practice, he assoicated no anathemas (or the biblical equivalent) in his statement, it was simply a custom that was adopted from jewish culture. The synod of Gangra, on the other hand, was dealing with a specific pietistic heresy that had this practice of distinguishing themselves by the clothing they wore, and showed disdain for the common dress of the day, and with this issue they very specifically assigned an anathema, emphasising its doctrinal significance to the Orthodox. You may elevate cultural norms above dogmatics simply on account of one is found in the New Testament and the Other in a Synod ratified by an Oecumenical Synod. But unlike the protestants, I do not assign greater value to the Bible over the Oecumenical Synods, though I do assign a greater value to dogma over custom.

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I am done debating this one, lol.

I'm sorry you no longer find your posistion defensible, it could have been a fun debate.
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« Reply #95 on: February 22, 2006, 11:09:30 PM »

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I'm sorry you no longer find your posistion defensible, it could have been a fun debate.

I think it is important to remember that many people do not post here for the sake of debate.  Not carrying out a debate doesn't mean someone doesn't find their position defensible in every case.  In many cases it simply means they don't wish to devote the time to a pointless exercise or that they come here to exchange conversation, information and a sort of informal Orthodox fellowship and not an academic debate.  
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« Reply #96 on: February 22, 2006, 11:58:09 PM »

Nektarios, well said! I dunno why many on this forum automatically assume that when anyone posts a thread, they are looking for a debate. Debate is a small 10% of this forum for me. The rest is just fellowship, exchanging ideas, news, faith issues etc. To me thats more valuable than the debate as in the end most people will leave it thinking the same way.
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« Reply #97 on: February 23, 2006, 06:27:14 PM »

Don't confuse debate with arguing.
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« Reply #98 on: February 24, 2006, 02:41:58 PM »

Nektarios, well said! I dunno why many on this forum automatically assume that when anyone posts a thread, they are looking for a debate. Debate is a small 10% of this forum for me. The rest is just fellowship, exchanging ideas, news, faith issues etc. To me thats more valuable than the debate as in the end most people will leave it thinking the same way.

That's debatable  Cheesy
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« Reply #99 on: February 27, 2006, 05:34:49 PM »

You should see some of the things my dad told people...haha.

This probably should start a new topic, but the above quote has given me food for thought. I'm assuming that serb1389 wasn't suggesting that his priest/dad was rude to people and that he found that amusing, but the comment did make me wonder how people dealt with abusive and insensitive priests.

I had a friend who attended a parish where the priest was appallingly brusque (interpret that as positively rude and unloving) with the members of his flock and often my friend was reduced to despair. Though we must honour our priests and forgive their foibles, it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. I personally, would never allow one such leeway and he would be informed at an appropriate moment, with diplomacy and charity, that I found his behaviour unacceptable.

Any thoughts?
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« Reply #100 on: February 27, 2006, 05:39:13 PM »

Hey start a new thread if you want to open that can of worms up.  My entire jurisdiction would pile up the comments, so get ready...hahah Grin
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« Reply #101 on: February 27, 2006, 05:45:22 PM »

Hey start a new thread if you want to open that can of worms up.  My entire jurisdiction would pile up the comments, so get ready...hahah Grin

Will do.  Grin
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« Reply #102 on: June 21, 2006, 02:05:35 AM »

When I was Visting some friends of mine in Nizhni Novgorod Russia. I attented liturgy at Saint Alexander Nevsky Cathedral which I am also a honorary member of their Brotherhood. Any way they all stood up for the whole liturgy. It was very painful for me to stand a long time since they didÂÂ  not have very many sitting place so I stood up with my back against the Church wall.
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« Reply #103 on: June 21, 2006, 02:18:35 AM »

I know how to solve the dressing for church problem. Just tell the people that the church is going Naked  Shocked and see how nice they begin to dress in nice clothes for church.
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« Reply #104 on: June 21, 2006, 01:23:30 PM »

When I was Visting some friends of mine in Nizhni Novgorod Russia I attented liturgy at Saint Alexander Nevsky Cathedral which I am also a honorary member of their Brotherhood. Any way they all stood up for the whole liturgy. It was very painful for me to stand a long time since they did  not have very many sitting place so I stood up with my back against the Church wall.

As a priest, aren't you accustomed to standing for the entire liturgy???

Besides, a very good portion of the Orthodox world is pewless...it's not a big deal.

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« Reply #105 on: June 28, 2006, 09:09:34 AM »

I went from a church with pews to a church with seats and even though the services are 2.5 times as long, I look out and see the Archbishop there and if he can stand for 3 hours, so can I, simple matter. Holy Week was the first time I attended services at this new parish and I stood every minute for every service even after 21 years at a parish with pews and shorter services. If you're paying attention to the service, the time goes by really fast.

-Nick
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« Reply #106 on: October 30, 2006, 12:40:29 PM »

Back home, we used to kneel several times throughout the Liturgy, even on Sundays: at "Come, let us worship and fall down before Christ...", at the reading of the Gospel, at the Great Entrance -"Vohod", from the "Take, eat, this is my Body..." to the Axion and then, some would even kneel for "Our Father". Besides that, those recieving the Holy Communion would always kneel for the pre-Communion prayers "I believe o Lord and I confess..." .
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« Reply #107 on: November 01, 2006, 01:11:01 AM »

I consider pews (or at least chairs as a substitute varaint) are necessary. I wish Orthodox parishes in "the Old country" will start to install them.
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« Reply #108 on: November 01, 2006, 03:41:25 AM »

I consider pews (or at least chairs as a substitute varaint) are necessary. I wish Orthodox parishes in "the Old country" will start to install them.

I know some of you will want to attack this but please just accept this as an opinion and move on. This has thread has been a good open discussion please don't make me close it now.
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« Reply #109 on: November 10, 2006, 04:23:45 PM »

Imagine you are in Bethlehem at the time of Chirsts birth; would you stand to see this great thing?

Imagine you are crippled and Christ comes unto you in the flesh and says stand up and walk; would you stand?

Imagine you were hearing the message of salvation being preached by Chirst on earth; would you stand to ensure you hear His every word?

Imagine you are at Golgotha witnessing the scorging and crudifiction of the Christ; would you need a comfortable seat for that?

Imagine you were seeing with your own eyes the resurrection and ascension of Christ; would you be concerned about sitting still?

Now imagine that the sunday after you read this post during the Axion Christ returns to earth in HIs advent as we expect and how he said he would. Would you want be found sitting or standing?

I think its clear that standing in the Liturgy is the only way to connect to it. The liturgy carries us into full worship of God ...WE ARE IN AWE.

How can you sit and be in awe?

You stand when Michael Jordan would make those nail bitting shots. I did to.

I stand to get my check cashed just like you with no complaints. Find a bank with seats and let me know.

We need to look at our worship.

If we are really worshipping as one post said..."the service moves"

Why? beacause we are not waiting we are worshipping.

I was invited to a Russian Church in NYC to celebrate the veneration of a very special Icon of the Holy Mother of God. I was invited by my ukranian Orthodox co-worker. After a very hard day I attended the service that frigid night. Upon entering the Church first a small sign reading: "women can not wear pants in the sanctuary". Then I entered and to my surprise NO pews...not one. Just a few folding chairs in the back for the elderly. I stood up for the whole 4 hour service without even a leaning post ... nothing. The service was only in Russian as well and I do not speak or understand any Russian. Me and my wife were the only black people thier. I noticed the people did not sway, lean, flich around, they stood straight and erect as if the Glory of God was in front of them. I did the same. I saw old people doing the same. The folding chairs barely got used. NO head turned left or right...everyone perfect like soldiers. After the service ended their was a procession which each person was allowed to approach the Icon and venerate it and pray then a Priest was at the end of the line who blessed you with prayer and Holy oil. When I had to move My legs were locked my back was locked, but I was able to move. After I venerated, prayed and received the oils the service ended with a beautiful benediction about 10:45 pm.  As I began to walk toward the exit I noticed so many people; some twice my age going toward the alter to continue more prayers as the choir was resounding through the space. I must say I began to cry.... I was overwhelmed with awe, absolutely and completely clasped due to awe. Yes I was in pain, my back, shoulders and neck was burning from fatigue. My spine and feet were almost numb from pain. Then I stepped outside into the freezing cold of the night and had to walk for a mile or so. I cried the whole way. Each pain from each area of my body as I walked remided me of Chirst passion and how unworthy I was to have recieved the blessing I received that night. I had a pain in my throat from chocking back tears for 2 weeks. The smell of the Oils was on my head for months. I asked my wife if she could still smelled it. She said "yes" but she did not want to say anything to me thinking that it was just her.

All this occurred in I did understand one word of Russian.

But I understood love and I could feel it in that sanctuary that night.

I hope that the Russian Orthodox Church and all others keep this tradition of no pews. It is an important act of devotion and worship. We can sit down at home.

In Ethiopia we are pewless in the old Christian capitals. But many CHurches have set up the pews. Even still the liturgy demands us to stand for 85% of the time. But even seeing the pews looses something.

God bless
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« Reply #110 on: November 10, 2006, 06:09:35 PM »

Amedtsion,
That is a great narrative.  I'll have to use that in the future.  I wonder if I can I bookmark a post?
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« Reply #111 on: November 10, 2006, 06:55:32 PM »

Amedtsion,
That is a great narrative.

I'll second that.  Very powerful.
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« Reply #112 on: November 10, 2006, 11:17:59 PM »

I agree..something is lost with the addition of pews. 
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« Reply #113 on: November 11, 2006, 12:10:13 AM »

I experienced a service without them for the first time this last summer, and I loved it.

Blessings,
Panagiotis
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« Reply #114 on: November 20, 2007, 06:52:34 PM »



Pews..............................Arrrrg!
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« Reply #115 on: November 20, 2007, 08:19:38 PM »


Pews..............................Arrrrg!
Wow, old thread!

My parish has movable chairs, which I think is a good compromise between allowing people to sit and being able to move them out of the way for the Lenten services which require lots of prostrations.
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« Reply #116 on: November 20, 2007, 08:26:44 PM »

mod - Why is the thread being resurrected? police
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« Reply #117 on: November 27, 2007, 12:18:35 AM »

mod - Why is the thread being resurrected? police

Probably Wink because someone still has something to offer to it. 
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« Reply #118 on: November 28, 2007, 02:28:49 PM »

Probably Wink because someone still has something to offer to it. 

It was good to have this thread ressurrected. Thanks!

I hope people chime in on this very good point of concern for our faith.

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« Reply #119 on: November 28, 2007, 02:59:33 PM »

God bless !!

Ah this is a thread for me, the Holy Tradition of standing in Church wich is set aside by some modernists ! Grin

In CHRIST
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« Reply #120 on: November 28, 2007, 03:20:00 PM »

God bless !!

Ah this is a thread for me, the Holy Tradition of standing in Church wich is set aside by some modernists ! Grin

In CHRIST

Oh, goody! Then can we move on to "nothing but beeswax candles" and "no electricity" or telephones or Internet connections?  Wink
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« Reply #121 on: November 28, 2007, 03:55:00 PM »

I certainly prefer standing in Church - one of the better things I picked up from being around clergy all my life, and from 4 years at Seminary.  I won't go so far as to condemn those who don't, though.
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« Reply #122 on: November 28, 2007, 06:40:23 PM »

I certainly prefer standing in Church - one of the better things I picked up from being around clergy all my life, and from 4 years at Seminary.  I won't go so far as to condemn those who don't, though.

I'm with Cleveland on this one, especially after my years at HCHC as well.

I went from standing all the time to the parish I'm in now, which sits most of the time, and stands/sits/kneels when the priest rings a bell (can anyone say Pavlov's dogs?).  Besides the fact that I personally feel that people should be paying enough attention and know enough about church etiquette to know when to stand WITHOUT a bell, it feels bizarre to sit so much.  I have a MUCH harder time paying attention when I'm sitting down.  It's to easy to relax and stare off into space.  Not to mention that I just can't get past the fact that we are supposed to stand before God in light of the Resurrection, which means every Sunday.  And yes, I prefer to stand every other day of the week as well.
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« Reply #123 on: November 28, 2007, 06:45:46 PM »

Oh, goody! Then can we move on to "nothing but beeswax candles" and "no electricity" or telephones or Internet connections?  Wink

telephone and internet are OK........ police
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« Reply #124 on: November 28, 2007, 08:52:48 PM »

Personally, I just can't understand why anyone (assuming they were able-bodied) would want to sit during the divine services  UndecidedHuh
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« Reply #125 on: November 28, 2007, 09:08:25 PM »

Personally, I just can't understand why anyone (assuming they were able-bodied) would want to sit during the divine services  UndecidedHuh

God bless !

Me too - I want to partizipate in the Liturgy with bowing, prostration, kneeling......I do not want to watch the Liturgy I want to experience it. Come let us worship and fall down before Christ our King and God ...

In CHRIST
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« Reply #126 on: November 29, 2007, 12:21:28 AM »

Personally, I just can't understand why anyone (assuming they were able-bodied) would want to sit during the divine services  UndecidedHuh

I believe that it is a very personal preference and a very personal choice in any case. I prefer to sit and to concentrate on prayer in adequate position without interuption and uncomfortable movements. And yes, I do love pews!
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« Reply #127 on: November 29, 2007, 12:50:27 AM »

God bless !

Me too - I want to partizipate in the Liturgy with bowing, prostration, kneeling......I do not want to watch the Liturgy I want to experience it. Come let us worship and fall down before Christ our King and God ...

In CHRIST

I agree.  Even though our parish has pews, I prefer standing.  With so many commands to "stand" and "stand upright" in the Divine Liturgy, standing is clearly the normal posture of prayer in the Church.  Smiley

God bless,

Adam 
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« Reply #128 on: November 29, 2007, 05:47:36 AM »

I remember when the EP refered to pews as theater seats.  How spot on! I thought.

My sons's mother now goes to a megachurch (the boys refer to it as "the church where we don't pray").  When the one told me that at the Easter service was dark, I asked why, and they said "well, it's not really a church, it's more like a place where we sit and watch people."

Nave comes from the word "ship."  People want it to be a cargo ship: just sit and come along for the ride.

It's not, it's a slaver ship: everyone should be rowing with their prayers.

Btw, I also prostrate at the consecration on a weekday DL.  But I can't bring myself to even kneel on Sunday: to stand and to resurrect is the same in Arabic.
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« Reply #129 on: November 29, 2007, 08:16:25 AM »

I believe that it is a very personal preference and a very personal choice in any case. I prefer to sit and to concentrate on prayer in adequate position without interuption and uncomfortable movements. And yes, I do love pews!

God bless !

Please Starlight forgive me - but how can anyone "love pews" - you know were pews coming from ?
I think we do not need to post quotes from the Fathers and Elders how we should behave during prayer- we are a twofold nature and when praying with the mind you must also pary with the body.....you can not say let us worship and fall down -when sitting on a chair !

For me sitting during prayer and even during the Mystery of Mysteries - when Cherubim and Seraphim are prostrating and trembling it is even "blasphemious"- forgive me.


In CHRIST
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« Reply #130 on: November 29, 2007, 09:43:23 AM »

God bless !

Please Starlight forgive me - but how can anyone "love pews" - you know were pews coming from ?
I think we do not need to post quotes from the Fathers and Elders how we should behave during prayer- we are a twofold nature and when praying with the mind you must also pary with the body.....you can not say let us worship and fall down -when sitting on a chair !

For me sitting during prayer and even during the Mystery of Mysteries - when Cherubim and Seraphim are prostrating and trembling it is even "blasphemious"- forgive me.


In CHRIST


Christodoulos I see your point. But I see the point of Starlight too. Personally, I opt for sitting at times, you see, there are times my weak head feels dizzy - and this does indeed disrupt my concentration. I will not claim I know what practice is supported or validated by whom, I only know that when it comes down to praying, one who tries to pray all one can, one is bound to be praying in all possible conditions - outside liturgy, that is - driving and praying, eating and praying, cleaning and praying, lying down and praying...etc. My parish priest once told me he advises people to pray whenever and wherever they can, as much as they can. Everyone has their own limitations nevertheless, physical, spiritual or otherwise. So, I think the Epistle to Romans, Chapter 14 is to look up when it comes to matters such as these (I  know it talks about fast, but fast is not only about food, it can therefore apply to all things done for our Lord).


"Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord....."

God bless

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« Reply #131 on: November 29, 2007, 10:45:02 AM »

Christodoulos I see your point. But I see the point of Starlight too. Personally, I opt for sitting at times, you see, there are times my weak head feels dizzy - and this does indeed disrupt my concentration. I will not claim I know what practice is supported or validated by whom, I only know that when it comes down to praying, one who tries to pray all one can, one is bound to be praying in all possible conditions - outside liturgy, that is - driving and praying, eating and praying, cleaning and praying, lying down and praying...etc. My parish priest once told me he advises people to pray whenever and wherever they can, as much as they can. Everyone has their own limitations nevertheless, physical, spiritual or otherwise. So, I think the Epistle to Romans, Chapter 14 is to look up when it comes to matters such as these (I  know it talks about fast, but fast is not only about food, it can therefore apply to all things done for our Lord).


"Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord....."

God bless u Sophie !

Sophie there is no problem when people are sitting when they feel weak, or ill, or when old people are sitting.....problems with feet......no one ever said anything against that.

The problem is that some orthodox churches "copied" the heterodox and filled the complet space in Church with pews and chairs- so that it is not possible to prostrate or kneel or even bow.....they made it the common way - you will see even in "ultra-orthodox" Churches some chairs and seats on the sides or in the backround- and everyone who needs some rest can sit down.

When I stayed in Monasteries, were the Service can take 8 hours or more, it is also allowed to sit during the Kathismas .......but this is an exception.

We should never forget that the christian way of life is a way of struggle and not of comfort !
And we should not forget what happens during Divine Liturgy like I have said how can we sit when Seraphim and cherubim are trembling and prostrating!

There is the story of Elder Iakovos - when he served Divine Liturgy- so many Cherubim and Seraphim were around the Holy Table that it was hard to serve- there was no place for him and at the great Entrance with the Holy Gifts he could see and even feel their Wings on his shoulders- they are protecting the Holy Gifts - so how can we sit ?

The pews were first introduced by the Protestants ( they also stood in Church during prayer) -they have a different understanding of the Service, and later the rcc also put pews in Church ( they also stood in Church until the 18 cent) and only (I think) in the 50s some orthodox Churches began to copy this....

In CHRIST
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« Reply #132 on: November 29, 2007, 12:58:21 PM »

God bless u Sophie !

Sophie there is no problem when people are sitting when they feel weak, or ill, or when old people are sitting.....problems with feet......no one ever said anything against that.

The problem is that some orthodox churches "copied" the heterodox and filled the complet space in Church with pews and chairs- so that it is not possible to prostrate or kneel or even bow.....they made it the common way - you will see even in "ultra-orthodox" Churches some chairs and seats on the sides or in the backround- and everyone who needs some rest can sit down.

When I stayed in Monasteries, were the Service can take 8 hours or more, it is also allowed to sit during the Kathismas .......but this is an exception.

We should never forget that the christian way of life is a way of struggle and not of comfort !
And we should not forget what happens during Divine Liturgy like I have said how can we sit when Seraphim and cherubim are trembling and prostrating!

There is the story of Elder Iakovos - when he served Divine Liturgy- so many Cherubim and Seraphim were around the Holy Table that it was hard to serve- there was no place for him and at the great Entrance with the Holy Gifts he could see and even feel their Wings on his shoulders- they are protecting the Holy Gifts - so how can we sit ?

The pews were first introduced by the Protestants ( they also stood in Church during prayer) -they have a different understanding of the Service, and later the rcc also put pews in Church ( they also stood in Church until the 18 cent I think) and only I think in the 50s some orthodox Churches began to copy this....

In CHRIST

I may have mentioned this on a previous post but I am too lazy to go back and check, but all Christian churches at one time had not pews.  One can go into some of the most ancient of Roman Catholic churches in Europe and see a pewless Nave. A prime example of this is the very center of Catholicism St. Peter's in Rome.
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« Reply #133 on: November 29, 2007, 01:11:49 PM »

I may have mentioned this on a previous post but I am too lazy to go back and check, but all Christian churches at one time had not pews.  One can go into some of the most ancient of Roman Catholic churches in Europe and see a pewless Nave. A prime example of this is the very center of Catholicism St. Peter's in Rome.

God bless !

Yeah,...and many Latin Fathers wrote about this Topic-like Tertullian who said it is blasphemious even to sit AFTER prayer, or St. Augustine also spoke about standing during prayer ( he said it is not allowed to change this) ......

But I would say beside all this "spiritual" questions - I think the architecture is destroyed by pews- I saw this in Cypress - the tiny,beautiful Temples are complete filled up with chairs and pews,there is not empty place left no where.....


In CHRIST
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« Reply #134 on: November 29, 2007, 02:46:45 PM »

Oh, goody! Then can we move on to "nothing but beeswax candles" and "no electricity" or telephones or Internet connections?  Wink

I do not think modern lighting verses ancient forms of lighting and the other comparisons of tbis sort that you made have any real point.

Standing is an 'act' of the faith which our fathers handed down to us throughout the ages. Light and the and other utilitarian aspects may change over time.
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