Author Topic: Random Postings  (Read 1921548 times)

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Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7020 on: December 10, 2009, 01:36:39 AM »
I can imagine Glen Beck seeing this and talking about the end of the world and new world order.

But if they can can make neurobots, do you know how many nervous conditions we can cure?  Christopher Reeves and Ronald Reagan would have dreamed of this day.

Plus imagine the abilities of small armies of nanobots travelling through the blood stream.  Cancer cells destroyed on sight, the ability to control or eliminate HIV/AIDS, etc.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7021 on: December 10, 2009, 01:44:09 AM »
I can imagine Glen Beck seeing this and talking about the end of the world and new world order.

But if they can can make neurobots, do you know how many nervous conditions we can cure?  Christopher Reeves and Ronald Reagan would have dreamed of this day.

Plus imagine the abilities of small armies of nanobots travelling through the blood stream.  Cancer cells destroyed on sight, the ability to control or eliminate HIV/AIDS, etc.

Indeed, the next decade may in fact be the birth of nanosurgery in the field of Medicine.
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7022 on: December 10, 2009, 02:46:21 AM »
nanobots - the ultimate sleeper cells.   ::)  ???  ::)

Offline Papist

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7023 on: December 10, 2009, 10:36:06 AM »
Wow. I am gonna call myself out here. Was drunk while typing?

Drunk still you are.
That's it. I need to read my posts three times before letting anyone else see them.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline GiC

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7024 on: December 10, 2009, 01:43:47 PM »
I can't count how many high school classes I got B's in instead of A's because I flat out refused to do most the homework. In general it's useless busy work that doesn't teach you anything not covered in the lecture, what's the point?
There is alot less lecturing in the High School classroom these days. Its more about discovery learning and higher level thinking skills. The home work is there to drill the basic skills.
Sounds like people are trying to blame poor teaching methods and abilities on S.E.C. ;D
Are you suggesting that lecture is a better teaching method?

Having been forced to endure some of the teaching methods you speak of in Secondary School...I'd say that without the hint of hesitation or doubt. Nothing like taking a month to teach a subject that should take one lecture hour.
Look, lecture is for me the best method of learning. But I am a fairly intelligent person, as are you. However, for most students this method does not work as well. In fact, most research demonstrates that of all the teaching methods regurlarly used, lecture has the least positive effect. Sorry to say that this but for the masses, there is no evidence that lectures are effective.


I remember in high school that we spent probably a semester (between Pre-Calculus and Calculus I) teaching the concept of an integral. 'Exploring' this idea of area under the curve being approximated by rectangles, belabouring a concept as simple as the limit week after week, then doing it all again the following year. It's a VERY simple concept, one lecture to introduce the concept, one more to provide the theoretical background, two more to derive the 'rules' used for practical application...with class every day, that's LESS than ONE WEEK. If it would make people feel better, you could spend the last day of that week going over examples to make the concept obvious (as though it wouldn't be already), the next week you could move on to something else.

Lecture is a better approach for two reasons, first it gives you all the information in a logically ordered fashion making it much easier to grasp and internalize the subject than the shotgun approach of 'exploration'. Secondly, and most importantly, the lecture is MUCH more efficient, as I discussed above, you can do in a week what in some schools today will occupy a semester. Education takes long enough without slowing instruction down to a snail's pace, to do so wastes time that could be spent on other topics, DEPRIVING students of the education they deserve.

There's a place for 'exploration', we call it research. It's MUCH harder, not easier, than learning from a lecture. Giving the choice of 'exploring' the Riemann Hypothesis myself or sitting down and have someone lecture me on how it's proven, I certainly know what choice I'd take; unfortunately, we enjoy no such luxury on this matter. If someone thinks mathematical research is easier than a lecture on mathematics, they'd do much better to start publishing their own original proofs than sitting through a high school math class.
Which is all good and fine except for the fact that all the data from actual research suggests that lecture is the weekest form of teaching with the smallest effect size.

One thing I've noticed with lectures is that those who pay attention and don't allow their minds to wonder do just fine with them, if someone isn't going to bother paying attention, why should we care if they get anything out of it? I'd be curious how effective it would be if you only took into account those who actually paid attention?
Well, you are probably gonna be concerned about it and that student fails in school, ends up and welfare, and robs you at the ATM.

Well, any more everyone says you need a college education to be successful, so should we dumb down that curriculum as well? I mean, why require proofs to get a math degree, or quantum mechanics for a physics degree, or biochemistry for a biology degree...those things are hard, they might discourage students who would drop out of college. And why stop with the bachelors? Maybe we should start awarding Ph.D. for effort, without regard for the quality of academic work and original research?

I'm all for making education as widely available as possible, but not at the expense of a rigorous and efficient curriculum; if you get rid of those things, nobody's education has any value.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 01:44:57 PM by GiC »
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Offline Papist

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7025 on: December 10, 2009, 01:46:35 PM »
I can't count how many high school classes I got B's in instead of A's because I flat out refused to do most the homework. In general it's useless busy work that doesn't teach you anything not covered in the lecture, what's the point?
There is alot less lecturing in the High School classroom these days. Its more about discovery learning and higher level thinking skills. The home work is there to drill the basic skills.
Sounds like people are trying to blame poor teaching methods and abilities on S.E.C. ;D
Are you suggesting that lecture is a better teaching method?

Having been forced to endure some of the teaching methods you speak of in Secondary School...I'd say that without the hint of hesitation or doubt. Nothing like taking a month to teach a subject that should take one lecture hour.
Look, lecture is for me the best method of learning. But I am a fairly intelligent person, as are you. However, for most students this method does not work as well. In fact, most research demonstrates that of all the teaching methods regurlarly used, lecture has the least positive effect. Sorry to say that this but for the masses, there is no evidence that lectures are effective.


I remember in high school that we spent probably a semester (between Pre-Calculus and Calculus I) teaching the concept of an integral. 'Exploring' this idea of area under the curve being approximated by rectangles, belabouring a concept as simple as the limit week after week, then doing it all again the following year. It's a VERY simple concept, one lecture to introduce the concept, one more to provide the theoretical background, two more to derive the 'rules' used for practical application...with class every day, that's LESS than ONE WEEK. If it would make people feel better, you could spend the last day of that week going over examples to make the concept obvious (as though it wouldn't be already), the next week you could move on to something else.

Lecture is a better approach for two reasons, first it gives you all the information in a logically ordered fashion making it much easier to grasp and internalize the subject than the shotgun approach of 'exploration'. Secondly, and most importantly, the lecture is MUCH more efficient, as I discussed above, you can do in a week what in some schools today will occupy a semester. Education takes long enough without slowing instruction down to a snail's pace, to do so wastes time that could be spent on other topics, DEPRIVING students of the education they deserve.

There's a place for 'exploration', we call it research. It's MUCH harder, not easier, than learning from a lecture. Giving the choice of 'exploring' the Riemann Hypothesis myself or sitting down and have someone lecture me on how it's proven, I certainly know what choice I'd take; unfortunately, we enjoy no such luxury on this matter. If someone thinks mathematical research is easier than a lecture on mathematics, they'd do much better to start publishing their own original proofs than sitting through a high school math class.
Which is all good and fine except for the fact that all the data from actual research suggests that lecture is the weekest form of teaching with the smallest effect size.

One thing I've noticed with lectures is that those who pay attention and don't allow their minds to wonder do just fine with them, if someone isn't going to bother paying attention, why should we care if they get anything out of it? I'd be curious how effective it would be if you only took into account those who actually paid attention?
Well, you are probably gonna be concerned about it and that student fails in school, ends up and welfare, and robs you at the ATM.

Well, any more everyone says you need a college education to be successful, so should we dumb down that curriculum as well? I mean, why require proofs to get a math degree, or quantum mechanics for a physics degree, or biochemistry for a biology degree...those things are hard, they might discourage students who would drop out of college. And why stop with the bachelors? Maybe we should start awarding Ph.D. for effort, without regard for the quality of academic work and original research?

I'm all for making education as widely available as possible, but not at the expense of a rigorous and efficient curriculum; if you get rid of those things, nobody's education has any value.
The problem is that you have no idea what goes on in a classroom. Its not about "dumbing down" the curriculum. Rather, its about getting students to use their higher level thinking skills and helping them to become creative and critical thinkers, rather than throwing information at them and hoping it sticks. We are creating an environment of rigor rather than an evironment of mediocricy. I would think you would like the idea of creating learners and thinkers rather than tape recorders. Again, every bit of evidence from research has demonstrated that the lecture only model only addresses the lowest level of thinking. But if you want students who can analyze, create, synthesize, apply, and evaluate, you need more than a lecture.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 01:48:53 PM by Papist »
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7026 on: December 10, 2009, 01:52:16 PM »
Drunk still you are. 
That's it. I need to read my posts three times before letting anyone else see them.

If you're that drunk, you'll be able to see your post 3 times at once before letting others see it.
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Offline Papist

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7027 on: December 10, 2009, 01:55:00 PM »
Drunk still you are. 
That's it. I need to read my posts three times before letting anyone else see them.

If you're that drunk, you'll be able to see your post 3 times at once before letting others see it.
LOL. I actually haven't been drunk in a very long time but my post give the appearance that I have an alcohol problem. LOL
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7028 on: December 10, 2009, 02:02:17 PM »
Drunk still you are. 
That's it. I need to read my posts three times before letting anyone else see them.

If you're that drunk, you'll be able to see your post 3 times at once before letting others see it.
LOL. I actually haven't been drunk in a very long time but my post give the appearance that I have an alcohol problem. LOL

The first step to recovery is admitting you have the problem. ;) :P
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7029 on: December 10, 2009, 02:11:34 PM »
The first step to recovery is admitting you have the problem. ;) :P

All of us who have more than 2 or 3 thousand posts have a problem... Forum addiction. ;)
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Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline Papist

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7030 on: December 10, 2009, 02:12:31 PM »
The first step to recovery is admitting you have the problem. ;) :P

All of us who have more than 2 or 3 thousand posts have a problem... Forum addiction. ;)
Very true. BTW, if you notice I am getting close to my 4,000 post goal. I will most certainly be there by the end of the year.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline ytterbiumanalyst

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7031 on: December 10, 2009, 02:15:09 PM »
He may be average, but at least he's at the top of average.

What an awful joke.
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Online Justin Kissel

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7032 on: December 10, 2009, 02:16:15 PM »
The first step to recovery is admitting you have the problem. ;) :P

All of us who have more than 2 or 3 thousand posts have a problem... Forum addiction. ;)

Hi, I'm Justin, and I'm a forum addict. And I have an advanced form of it, because I'm a binge poster. My stats would seem to indicate a rather modest 2.169 posts per day, but the number is only that low because I take lengthy vacations from the forum. My posts per day when I'm actually here at the forum is probably more like 12+.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 02:16:52 PM by Asteriktos »
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7033 on: December 10, 2009, 02:16:40 PM »
He may be average, but at least he's at the top of average.
What an awful joke.
Wakka wakka!

Well, since you put it that way... Fozzy never made statistics jokes, so you're at least above his level.  Congrats.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7034 on: December 10, 2009, 02:17:47 PM »
All of us who have more than 2 or 3 thousand posts have a problem... Forum addiction. ;)

Hi, I'm Justin, and I'm a forum addict. And I have an advanced form of it, because I'm a binge poster. My stats would seem to indicate a rather modest 2.169 posts per day, but the number is only that low because I take lengthy vacations from the forum. My posts per day when I'm actually here at the forum is probably more like 12+. 

Hi Justin.  We'll find you a good sponsor - someone who has been active on the forum since its inception but who has less than 1,000 posts... Someone like CDHealy.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 02:19:00 PM by Fr. George »
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline GiC

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7035 on: December 10, 2009, 02:23:16 PM »
I can't count how many high school classes I got B's in instead of A's because I flat out refused to do most the homework. In general it's useless busy work that doesn't teach you anything not covered in the lecture, what's the point?
There is alot less lecturing in the High School classroom these days. Its more about discovery learning and higher level thinking skills. The home work is there to drill the basic skills.
Sounds like people are trying to blame poor teaching methods and abilities on S.E.C. ;D
Are you suggesting that lecture is a better teaching method?

Having been forced to endure some of the teaching methods you speak of in Secondary School...I'd say that without the hint of hesitation or doubt. Nothing like taking a month to teach a subject that should take one lecture hour.
Look, lecture is for me the best method of learning. But I am a fairly intelligent person, as are you. However, for most students this method does not work as well. In fact, most research demonstrates that of all the teaching methods regurlarly used, lecture has the least positive effect. Sorry to say that this but for the masses, there is no evidence that lectures are effective.


I remember in high school that we spent probably a semester (between Pre-Calculus and Calculus I) teaching the concept of an integral. 'Exploring' this idea of area under the curve being approximated by rectangles, belabouring a concept as simple as the limit week after week, then doing it all again the following year. It's a VERY simple concept, one lecture to introduce the concept, one more to provide the theoretical background, two more to derive the 'rules' used for practical application...with class every day, that's LESS than ONE WEEK. If it would make people feel better, you could spend the last day of that week going over examples to make the concept obvious (as though it wouldn't be already), the next week you could move on to something else.

Lecture is a better approach for two reasons, first it gives you all the information in a logically ordered fashion making it much easier to grasp and internalize the subject than the shotgun approach of 'exploration'. Secondly, and most importantly, the lecture is MUCH more efficient, as I discussed above, you can do in a week what in some schools today will occupy a semester. Education takes long enough without slowing instruction down to a snail's pace, to do so wastes time that could be spent on other topics, DEPRIVING students of the education they deserve.

There's a place for 'exploration', we call it research. It's MUCH harder, not easier, than learning from a lecture. Giving the choice of 'exploring' the Riemann Hypothesis myself or sitting down and have someone lecture me on how it's proven, I certainly know what choice I'd take; unfortunately, we enjoy no such luxury on this matter. If someone thinks mathematical research is easier than a lecture on mathematics, they'd do much better to start publishing their own original proofs than sitting through a high school math class.
Which is all good and fine except for the fact that all the data from actual research suggests that lecture is the weekest form of teaching with the smallest effect size.

One thing I've noticed with lectures is that those who pay attention and don't allow their minds to wonder do just fine with them, if someone isn't going to bother paying attention, why should we care if they get anything out of it? I'd be curious how effective it would be if you only took into account those who actually paid attention?
Well, you are probably gonna be concerned about it and that student fails in school, ends up and welfare, and robs you at the ATM.

Well, any more everyone says you need a college education to be successful, so should we dumb down that curriculum as well? I mean, why require proofs to get a math degree, or quantum mechanics for a physics degree, or biochemistry for a biology degree...those things are hard, they might discourage students who would drop out of college. And why stop with the bachelors? Maybe we should start awarding Ph.D. for effort, without regard for the quality of academic work and original research?

I'm all for making education as widely available as possible, but not at the expense of a rigorous and efficient curriculum; if you get rid of those things, nobody's education has any value.
The problem is that you have no idea what goes on in a classroom. Its not about "dumbing down" the curriculum. Rather, its about getting students to use their higher level thinking skills and helping them to become creative and critical thinkers, rather than throwing information at them and hoping it sticks. We are creating an environment of rigor rather than an evironment of mediocricy. I would think you would like the idea of creating learners and thinkers rather than tape recorders. Again, every bit of evidence from research has demonstrated that the lecture only model only addresses the lowest level of thinking. But if you want students who can analyze, create, synthesize, apply, and evaluate, you need more than a lecture.

Ok, but then I have one question, if this is the most effective way of teaching mathematics, why is it completely unheard of in Upper Division and Graduate level classes in both Theoretical and Applied Mathematics. Surely you're not suggesting that creative thinking and learning is not essential in Theoretical Mathematics (it's probably not so important in something as easy and straightforward as applied mathematics, but in theoretical mathematics?) But, still, it was universal consensus that the best way to teach was a lecture format, going through the proofs of theorem after theorem, which served the purpose of a) familiarizing with the already established theorems in the field that are essential for anyone who will pursue more advanced classes or research to know and b) by giving the proofs of these theorems allowing the students to see the approaches several mathematicians throughout history have used to prove their theorems. Of course, tests always consisted of proofs of new theorems that none of us had ever seen before. Creative thinking was certainly required to pass the class, but it's the universal consensus in universities across the nation that the best way to teach this is to give the students the greatest possible exposure to the field (and it's a common complaint that four years, even with fast-paced lecture, isn't enough even for an undergraduate education in the field).

If you actually want to teach creative thinking and understanding, theorems and proofs, the theoretical foundation of mathematics, would be infinitely more valuable than 'exploration' of applied subjects.
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7036 on: December 10, 2009, 02:29:18 PM »
Methinks you two need to trim the nested quotes a bit.  Take a little off the top.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline Papist

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7037 on: December 10, 2009, 02:31:09 PM »


If you actually want to teach creative thinking and understanding, theorems and proofs, the theoretical foundation of mathematics, would be infinitely more valuable than 'exploration' of applied subjects.
First, all research based data disagrees with your conclusion. So you are arguing in favor of a now refuted view point. You might as well be a young-earther. Second, it doesn't happen in upper level math classes because, let's be honest, most college professor are not very good teachers. They are there for their research and care very little about being effective teachers. Third, you cannot compare a graduate level student with a high school freshman. Apples and oranges my friend. Most freshmen have developed the intellecutal capacity to draw out information from a borring lecture the way a college grad has. They are in completely different stages of mental development. Fourth, just because things are done a certain way in college does not mean that its the right way.
Finally, I would again like to emphasize the fact that research on learning and teaching demonstrates that the "lecture only" model of learning is the the least effective.

BTW, explorations in math help students to understand why certain equations work they way they do and where they come from. Just thought you should know that.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 02:33:56 PM by Papist »
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Papist

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7038 on: December 10, 2009, 02:31:36 PM »
Methinks you two need to trim the nested quotes a bit.  Take a little off the top.
I'll be sure to do that in my next post.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline Papist

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7039 on: December 10, 2009, 02:38:24 PM »
Thought you guys might enjoy this:



 
From a reader:


I have a question for you. Suppose during a EF Mass, a gunman or threatening person enters the church, and opens fire. What can be done within the rubrics to protect the Blessed Sacrament, the priest, the servers, and the congregation? Please keep in mind that the congregation is made up of slow, aging men, who no offense to them, really can’t protect anyone.

Lemme get this straight… what rubrics are followed in case of gunfire...?

I believe there is a little known rubric which calls for the deacon and subdeacon (who in any event should be packing) to take out, reverently, their .9mm and return fire.  As I read it, they are to recite the Maledictory Psalms while firing.  At the change of a clip/magazine, they may bow, or duck. 

In the case of, probability actually… of the mention of the Holy Name, it is still necessary to uncover.

If one crosses the sanctuary, however, honorifics are not to be observed.

In the case of an incapacitating wound, it is permitted for the priest celebrant, or one of the sacred ministers, or any priest in choir, to give the assailant, et al., last rites. 

Any bishop present ought immediately place himself in the line of fire between the assailant and the priest celebrant and then begin to remonstrate with the attacker, invoking the help of St. Michael.  He is to wave his arms and shout: "in manus tuas commendo spiritum meum".



Complete Article:



http://wdtprs.com/blog/2009/12/quaeritur-what-rubrics-to-follow-at-mass-in-case-of-gunfire/
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Offline ozgeorge

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7040 on: December 10, 2009, 02:45:07 PM »
Methinks you two need to trim the nested quotes a bit.  Take a little off the top.
I'll be sure to do that in my next post.








I agree. Nested quotes are problematic.
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7041 on: December 10, 2009, 03:00:54 PM »
Methinks you two need to trim the nested quotes a bit.  Take a little off the top.
I'll be sure to do that in my next post.
I agree. Nested quotes are problematic.

Harumph!  Harumph!
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7042 on: December 10, 2009, 03:02:15 PM »
Third, you cannot compare a graduate level student with a high school freshman. Apples and oranges my friend. Most freshmen have developed the intellecutal capacity to draw out information from a borring lecture the way a college grad has. They are in completely different stages of mental development.

I'm sure you mean to say "Most freshmen have NOT developed the intellectual capacity to draw out..."
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 03:09:23 PM by Fr. George »
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7043 on: December 10, 2009, 03:07:49 PM »
I'm sure you mean to say "Most freshment have NOT developed the intellectual capacity to draw out..."

Had a particular refreshment in mind while writing that one, Father?  ;)
As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7044 on: December 10, 2009, 03:10:03 PM »
I'm sure you mean to say "Most freshment have NOT developed the intellectual capacity to draw out..."

Had a particular refreshment in mind while writing that one, Father?  ;)

Hot tea, with a spot of Metaxa, for my cold.  Can't get it, though.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline mike

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7045 on: December 10, 2009, 03:17:52 PM »
Hot tea, with a spot of Metaxa, for my cold.  Can't get it, though.

Metaxa -  you act as a true Greek.

Offline Papist

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7046 on: December 10, 2009, 03:37:53 PM »
Third, you cannot compare a graduate level student with a high school freshman. Apples and oranges my friend. Most freshmen have developed the intellecutal capacity to draw out information from a borring lecture the way a college grad has. They are in completely different stages of mental development.

I'm sure you mean to say "Most freshmen have NOT developed the intellectual capacity to draw out..."
I did mean that Father. Thanks.
You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.

Offline GiC

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7047 on: December 10, 2009, 03:41:16 PM »
First, all research based data disagrees with your conclusion. So you are arguing in favor of a now refuted view point. You might as well be a young-earther.

My aunt just got her Masters in Education and is starting in on her Ed.D. I've seen what passes for 'research' in the field of Education and, I must say, I'm less than impressed.

Quote
Second, it doesn't happen in upper level math classes because, let's be honest, most college professor are not very good teachers. They are there for their research and care very little about being effective teachers.

I had many professors how hated teaching and didn't care about it, but I can't say I had a math professor who was a poor teacher. As for my high school math teachers, they were passionate, loved teaching, and loved their field...but not a one of them was worth a damn. I just don't buy your argument here.

Quote
Third, you cannot compare a graduate level student with a high school freshman. Apples and oranges my friend. Most freshmen have developed the intellecutal capacity to draw out information from a borring lecture the way a college grad has. They are in completely different stages of mental development.

Well, they'd better get learning how to draw information out of a lecture if they ever want to amount to anything. Because no one's going to hold their hand in college. Maybe I'm biased because in the private schools I attended from 5th to 8th grade there were no group projects or 'hands on' learning, we sat at our desks every day, listened to lectures, and took notes for every subject from Latin to Mathematics. It seemed to work fairly well.

Quote
Fourth, just because things are done a certain way in college does not mean that its the right way.
Finally, I would again like to emphasize the fact that research on learning and teaching demonstrates that the "lecture only" model of learning is the the least effective.

Do these studies take into account the number of topics presented? Your methods may teach one topic really well, but in a field with tens of thousands of topics, can we really afford to spend two months on one topic?

Quote
BTW, explorations in math help students to understand why certain equations work they way they do and where they come from. Just thought you should know that.

Yes, I'm aware of the process and I'm also aware that it's fundamentally wrong and contrary to good mathematical practices. Equations do not work because you explore them and they seem to in a finite number of situations, they work because they are consistent with the fundamental axioms of mathematics. The Riemann hypothesis has been 'explored' and demonstrated to be true for over 10 trillion zeros and, you know what, no one really cares...the years of work that have gone into doing this is essentially meaningless without a formal mathematical proof.

Which gets me to the heart of the matter; honestly speaking, how many of your students do you believe could pass their A-levels upon graduation if given the opportunity to take the test? I got through differential equations in high school and I honestly doubt I could have passed it immediately after graduating high school due to the shallowness of instruction and the lack of in-depth knowledge in the field.
"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7048 on: December 10, 2009, 04:31:19 PM »
Hot tea, with a spot of Metaxa, for my cold.  Can't get it, though.

Metaxa -  you act as a true Greek.

For a sore throat, there's nothing like Tea with honey and Metaxa.  Mmmmm.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline GammaRay

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7049 on: December 10, 2009, 06:16:35 PM »
According to my post total, I need a hobby.
Good thing you joined the clergy then, it should be keeping you busy.
Though I've walked the valley of the shadow of the death, I've fallen not. Not completely. Not yet.

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7050 on: December 10, 2009, 06:19:52 PM »
According to my post total, I need a hobby.
Good thing you joined the clergy then, it should be keeping you busy.

It does.  But I do have my breaks during the day (I'm usually in/around the office for 9 or 10 hours), and I inevitably find myself here.
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7051 on: December 10, 2009, 06:58:50 PM »
According to my post total, I need a hobby.
Good thing you joined the clergy then, it should be keeping you busy.

It does.  But I do have my breaks during the day (I'm usually in/around the office for 9 or 10 hours), and I inevitably find myself here.

I can imagine how you feel.  Fr. Emmanuel, may God rest his soul, was almost always in his office when I was in undergrad, and I always enjoyed the time to stop by and talk to him after classes.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 06:59:26 PM by minasoliman »
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If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Entscheidungsproblem

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7052 on: December 10, 2009, 08:59:02 PM »
Behold, the mighty hexagon of Saturn:  http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/12/saturn-hexagon/
As a result of a thousand million years of evolution, the universe is becoming conscious of itself, able to understand something of its past history and its possible future.
-- Sir Julian Sorell Huxley FRS

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7053 on: December 10, 2009, 09:31:37 PM »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Online Justin Kissel

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7054 on: December 10, 2009, 09:40:47 PM »
Behold, the mighty hexagon of Saturn:  http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/12/saturn-hexagon/

I went to the site expecting an exceedingly ugly automobile (which confused me, what with Saturn being shut down). I mean, a Saturn Hexagon? I expected something like this:



Thankfully, I was wrong.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 09:41:18 PM by Asteriktos »
"I try to be good hard worker man, but refrigemator so messy... so, so messy."

Offline serb1389

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7055 on: December 10, 2009, 09:51:35 PM »
Behold, the mighty hexagon of Saturn:  http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/12/saturn-hexagon/

I went to the site expecting an exceedingly ugly automobile (which confused me, what with Saturn being shut down). I mean, a Saturn Hexagon? I expected something like this:



Thankfully, I was wrong.

LOL i did too!!!
I got nothing.
I forgot the maps
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7056 on: December 10, 2009, 11:52:58 PM »
That was a lot of posts in a short period of time, 7,500 can't be too far behind.   :)

Offline serb1389

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7057 on: December 10, 2009, 11:55:35 PM »
are you talking about yourself?
I got nothing.
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7058 on: December 10, 2009, 11:57:35 PM »
are you talking about yourself?

No, this thread.   :laugh:
I don't know if I want to get to 7,500 posts before the end of the 2010's when the nanobots would have gotten to me by then.

Offline serb1389

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7059 on: December 10, 2009, 11:58:24 PM »
are you talking about yourself?

No, this thread.   :laugh:
I don't know if I want to get to 7,500 posts before the end of the 2010's when the nanobots would have gotten to me by then.

yah....good luck with that......not awkward at all...
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Offline HandmaidenofGod

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7060 on: December 11, 2009, 01:11:45 AM »
Well, they'd better get learning how to draw information out of a lecture if they ever want to amount to anything. Because no one's going to hold their hand in college. Maybe I'm biased because in the private schools I attended from 5th to 8th grade there were no group projects or 'hands on' learning, we sat at our desks every day, listened to lectures, and took notes for every subject from Latin to Mathematics. It seemed to work fairly well.

As a returning college student who admittedly stinks at Math and is going to school with the intent of becoming a History teacher, I'd like to offer my two cents.

In observing your conversation, your comments seem especially biased to your particular method of learning and for your particularly high level of Mathematics.

Based on your comments, you're obviously well versed in Mathematics and have no difficulty performing advanced calculations that most of the population would never dream of attempting.

Papist teaches High School Freshmen. They are no where near your level of achievement. Their brains have not finished fully developing, nor have they had the years of education and experience you have. Furthermore, everyone has different styles of learning that work best for them. A good teacher is cognisant of this, and tries to meet his students needs to the best of his ability. Some students (such as yourself) do very well with nothing more than a lecture. Others need more hands on work, and large amounts of homework is required for them to really "get" the concept.

I can understand what you are saying about lectures, as this is how I learn best when it comes to History. I can listen to a lecture or read a book once, and my mind absorbs it like a sponge. I can see the events play out like a movie in my mind. For me, History just "clicks" and I don't understand why anyone else wouldn't find it fascinating.

When it comes to math however, my mind turns to concrete. It took me five hours to complete one stupid Algebra homework assignment today! (I'm sure you think I'm an idiot, but at least I'm willing to admit my faults.) I listen to the lectures, I take copious notes, but until I sit down to try to work out the problems, I just don't get the concept. (I hate myself for it!)

There is much to be said about Papist's comments about the quality of a College Professor versus a High School teacher.

My college professor has his doctorate in Mathematics and has 27 years experience at Bell Labs. He's obviously a bright man. He has a firm grasp of the material, and begins every lesson with "If you understand this, this is easy, but if you don't, this is hard."

Well no kidding! (If we understood it, we wouldn't be in the class!)

Although as a person he is a very nice man, he is a HORRIBLE teacher. For the first 4 weeks he used nothing but power point presentations until the class yelled at him enough for him to stop.

He can't understand why anyone would have any difficulty with mathematics, and is completely opposed to explain alternative methods to solving problems.

Maybe I'm just being a "baby" and need to suck it up and deal with it, but as someone who is paying for her education herself, I want a teacher who actually is interested in teaching the material, not just repeating what is written in the book.

The point of all this is, that it is great that you understand math so easily, but you should be aware that others are not as fortunate as yourself when it comes to comprehending mathematics.
"For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope." Jer 29:11

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7061 on: December 11, 2009, 01:51:11 AM »
If SolEX01 has 5,165 posts, how many posts does he need for 5,500 posts.

Let x represent the number of posts SolEX01 needs.

Now, add x to 5,165 to obtain the expression 5,165 + x.

Set the expression equal to 5,500:

5,165 + x = 5,500

To solve for x, the equation has to be balanced.  To do so, subtract 5,165 from each side.

5,165 + x - 5,165 = 5,500 - 5,165

5,165 - 5,165 = 0.  By the zero identity, anything added to 0 remains unchanged.

x + 0 = x

Next, subtract 5,165 from 5,500 to obtain 335.

Therefore, x = 335 and SolEX01 needs 335 posts to obtain the next level.   ;)

If anyone needs this expanded analysis for anything else, send a PM.   :)

Offline Ebor

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7062 on: December 13, 2009, 01:09:07 AM »
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

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Offline Ebor

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7063 on: December 13, 2009, 01:13:13 AM »
If SolEX01 has 5,165 posts, how many posts does he need for 5,500 posts.

Let x represent the number of posts SolEX01 needs.

Now, add x to 5,165 to obtain the expression 5,165 + x.

Set the expression equal to 5,500:

5,165 + x = 5,500

To solve for x, the equation has to be balanced.  To do so, subtract 5,165 from each side.

5,165 + x - 5,165 = 5,500 - 5,165

5,165 - 5,165 = 0.  By the zero identity, anything added to 0 remains unchanged.

x + 0 = x

Next, subtract 5,165 from 5,500 to obtain 335.

Therefore, x = 335 and SolEX01 needs 335 posts to obtain the next level.   ;)

If anyone needs this expanded analysis for anything else, send a PM.   :)


Suddenly I hear Tom Lehrer in my memory singing "New Math"

"Hooray for new math,
New-hoo-hoo-math,
It won't do you a bit of good to review math.
It's so simple,
So very simple,
That only a child can do it!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfqSTfTwJE8  for those who might enjoy hearing him perform his song.
 
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.

Offline Fr. George

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #7064 on: December 13, 2009, 01:16:54 AM »
are you talking about yourself?

No, this thread.   :laugh:
I don't know if I want to get to 7,500 posts before the end of the 2010's when the nanobots would have gotten to me by then.

This thread certainly has grown quickly.  One minute, you're counting beers on the wall and ringing in 2006 with a push to 100,000... next minute, the thread's all grown and is overweight with its own child threads and all.  *sniffle* Where has the time gone?
"O Cross of Christ, all-holy, thrice-blessed, and life-giving, instrument of the mystical rites of Zion, the holy Altar for the service of our Great Archpriest, the blessing - the weapon - the strength of priests, our pride, our consolation, the light in our hearts, our mind, and our steps"
Met. Meletios of Nikopolis & Preveza, from his ordination.