Author Topic: Random Postings  (Read 2316851 times)

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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21420 on: July 09, 2014, 02:44:01 PM »
Yeah, on the one hand, it seems reasonable to say that if Germany had pulled off a victorious peace in Europe, before America joined the fight, we wouldn't have cared much at all. Europe would have been left to sort itself out while we worried about Communism. I can remember reading an American children's book from the early '40s, from a very mainstream publisher, that described Hitler as a new Napoleon and had several flattering pictures of him in a friendly mood.

On the other hand, it seems clear in hindsight that powerful elements in America were spoiling to expand influence. Otherwise, why would we have cared about Communism as early as we did? Or been officially threatening Germany before they declared war? Not to mention our uncalled-for exploits in China and the Philippines (although that was long before Roosevelt). So I think if "Hitler had won" we might in fact have had a Cold War with Western Europe. It would depend on who -- fascism or communism -- became the biggest dog for us to fight. America was in the process of changing.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21421 on: July 09, 2014, 02:50:15 PM »
Otherwise, why would we have cared about Communism as early as we did?

America didn't, until the Berlin Blockade and the Coup in Czechoslovakia in 1948. Then very few could deny that Joe wanted to turn the world Red.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 02:51:43 PM by Cyrillic »
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
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-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

Ἀπ' ὃσα ἒκαμα κι ἀπ’ ὃσα εἶπα
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21422 on: July 09, 2014, 02:55:55 PM »
Otherwise, why would we have cared about Communism as early as we did?

America didn't, until the Berlin Blockade and the Coup in Czechoslovakia in 1948. Then very few could deny that Joe wanted to turn the world Red.



Even if that is entirely true, such actions were yet far from threatening us directly. Traditional America wouldn't have cared.

[Edited to add:] Vicious anti-communist rhetoric in America went back long before that, though, so I'm not sure I agree. You yourself seem to have been implying that America did not care about Hitler but about Communism in the early '40s.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 02:58:41 PM by Porter ODoran »
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21423 on: July 09, 2014, 02:57:11 PM »
Isn't there a whole forum to discuss politics in?
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21424 on: July 09, 2014, 02:59:22 PM »
Not random enough for you? :)
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21425 on: July 09, 2014, 03:00:48 PM »
Isn't there a whole forum to discuss politics in?

We're discussing (alt) history, not politics.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 03:11:52 PM by Cyrillic »
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
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-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21426 on: July 09, 2014, 03:03:24 PM »
Isn't there a whole forum to discuss politics in?

We're discussing history.

Was there any real home-grown fascist movement in the Netherlands?
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21427 on: July 09, 2014, 03:06:53 PM »
Isn't there a whole forum to discuss politics in?

We're discussing history.

Was there any real home-grown fascist movement in the Netherlands?

Yes, but Dutch society had developed in such a way that it never became popular, and never could have become popular.
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

Ἀπ' ὃσα ἒκαμα κι ἀπ’ ὃσα εἶπα
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21428 on: July 09, 2014, 03:19:56 PM »
America inherited so much from Amsterdam of which we'll probably never be aware (and I'm not talking about land and cities).
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21429 on: July 09, 2014, 03:29:09 PM »
America inherited so much from Amsterdam of which we'll probably never be aware (and I'm not talking about land and cities).

Meh, don't think so; and that's probably a good thing. Amsterdammers are annoying.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 03:29:23 PM by Cyrillic »
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

Ἀπ' ὃσα ἒκαμα κι ἀπ’ ὃσα εἶπα
νὰ μὴ ζητήσουνε νὰ βροῦν ποιός ἢμουν
-C.P Cavafy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21430 on: July 09, 2014, 03:32:28 PM »
Let's leave aside obvious inheritances such as republicanism and freedom of religion, and consider just the the broad fact that the Franks were always at the forefront of the civilization of Europe. But specifically I was thinking of the modern free market, which New York got from London and London from Amsterdam.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21431 on: July 09, 2014, 03:33:01 PM »
America inherited so much from Amsterdam of which we'll probably never be aware (and I'm not talking about land and cities).

Meh, don't think so; and that's probably a good thing. Amsterdammers are annoying.

What is the non-annoying race of Netherlanders, then? ;)
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21432 on: July 09, 2014, 03:34:57 PM »
the Franks were always at the forefront of the civilization of Europe.

Huh? No, they weren't. Romans or Greeks are not Franks.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21433 on: July 09, 2014, 03:41:02 PM »
the Franks were always at the forefront of the civilization of Europe.

Huh? No, they weren't. Romans or Greeks are not Franks.

Of Germanic / Celtic Europe. I meant "Europe" as opposed to the dying Roman Empire -- or do we use the term "Barbary" if we are Orthodox? :P
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 03:41:35 PM by Porter ODoran »
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21434 on: July 09, 2014, 03:43:39 PM »
America inherited so much from Amsterdam of which we'll probably never be aware (and I'm not talking about land and cities).

Meh, don't think so; and that's probably a good thing. Amsterdammers are annoying.

What is the non-annoying race of Netherlanders, then? ;)

Haven't found them yet.

Let's leave aside obvious inheritances such as republicanism and freedom of religion, and consider just the the broad fact that the Franks were always at the forefront of the civilization of Europe. But specifically I was thinking of the modern free market, which New York got from London and London from Amsterdam.

True enough. But everything you got from the Dutch you got through the English.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 03:44:55 PM by Cyrillic »
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

Ἀπ' ὃσα ἒκαμα κι ἀπ’ ὃσα εἶπα
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-C.P Cavafy

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21435 on: July 09, 2014, 03:44:54 PM »
I liked the Dutch when I was over there.  They seemed much nicer than many other parts of Europe.
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Offline john_mo

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21436 on: July 09, 2014, 03:45:25 PM »
I liked the Dutch when I was over there.  They seemed much nicer than many other parts of Europe.

They speak funny German though.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21437 on: July 09, 2014, 03:47:10 PM »
America inherited so much from Amsterdam of which we'll probably never be aware (and I'm not talking about land and cities).

Meh, don't think so; and that's probably a good thing. Amsterdammers are annoying.

What is the non-annoying race of Netherlanders, then? ;)

Haven't found them yet.

Let's leave aside obvious inheritances such as republicanism and freedom of religion, and consider just the the broad fact that the Franks were always at the forefront of the civilization of Europe. But specifically I was thinking of the modern free market, which New York got from London and London from Amsterdam.

True enough. But everything you got from the Dutch you got through the English.

Mostly true but not entirely. Large parties of our Founders split their time between England and Holland before settling in America.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21438 on: July 09, 2014, 03:47:14 PM »
I liked the Dutch when I was over there.  They seemed much nicer than many other parts of Europe.

They speak funny German though.

Dutch much easier on the ears (and that's saying something!)

I liked the Dutch when I was over there.  They seemed much nicer than many other parts of Europe.

That's probably true, but you must internalise Dutchness to survive for a longer period, or you'll think everyone is rude or just plain evil for that matter.

Mostly true but not entirely. Large parties of our Founders split their time between England and Holland before settling in America.

They only came for our money :)

But we were nice. We gave them money and we only got a war with England in return.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 03:50:27 PM by Cyrillic »
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

Ἀπ' ὃσα ἒκαμα κι ἀπ’ ὃσα εἶπα
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21439 on: July 09, 2014, 03:51:04 PM »
Mostly true but not entirely. Large parties of our Founders split their time between England and Holland before settling in America.

They only came for our money :)

Well, there's that, but I am speaking of the 1600s and the groups that fled to Holland whenever British monarchs were against them.

However, it's not through these that America learned their most important Dutch lesson, It is money that rules the world.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21440 on: July 09, 2014, 03:52:59 PM »
Mostly true but not entirely. Large parties of our Founders split their time between England and Holland before settling in America.

They only came for our money :)

However, it's not through these that America learned their most important Dutch lesson, It is money that rules the world.

That's true. Greed is our gift to the young nation. You learned that from us. But we love our money so much that we don't want to spend it. Even our very rich will always want to buy things on discount. That's a trait Americans don't have. Perhaps not a bad thing. It's not a very charming trait.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 03:53:43 PM by Cyrillic »
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

Ἀπ' ὃσα ἒκαμα κι ἀπ’ ὃσα εἶπα
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-C.P Cavafy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21441 on: July 09, 2014, 04:10:37 PM »
Mostly true but not entirely. Large parties of our Founders split their time between England and Holland before settling in America.

They only came for our money :)

However, it's not through these that America learned their most important Dutch lesson, It is money that rules the world.

That's true. Greed is our gift to the young nation. You learned that from us. But we love our money so much that we don't want to spend it. Even our very rich will always want to buy things on discount. That's a trait Americans don't have. Perhaps not a bad thing. It's not a very charming trait.

It's a trait stereotypical of our New England region (you know, the region that used to be called New Netherland ;) ). Some historians trace that to Calvinism in general.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21442 on: July 09, 2014, 04:20:34 PM »
My insurance company wants me to buy some extra services with extra costs. Why can't I just buy something simple for lost luggage and missed flights without all kinds of "What if you die and need a lawyer?" nonsense?
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21443 on: July 09, 2014, 04:22:22 PM »
My insurance company wants me to buy some extra services with extra costs. Why can't I just buy something simple for lost luggage and missed flights without all kinds of "What if you die and need a lawyer?" nonsense?
Because what if you die and need a lawyer?
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21444 on: July 09, 2014, 04:24:14 PM »
My insurance company wants me to buy some extra services with extra costs. Why can't I just buy something simple for lost luggage and missed flights without all kinds of "What if you die and need a lawyer?" nonsense?
Because what if you die and need a lawyer?

Nah. Nothing's going to happen. The worst thing that could happen is me getting annoyed over delayed flights.
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21445 on: July 09, 2014, 04:25:01 PM »
My insurance company wants me to buy some extra services with extra costs. Why can't I just buy something simple for lost luggage and missed flights without all kinds of "What if you die and need a lawyer?" nonsense?
Because what if you die and need a lawyer?

What about this guy?



(As afterlife lawyer I mean.)
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 04:25:42 PM by Porter ODoran »
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21446 on: July 09, 2014, 04:26:07 PM »
My insurance company wants me to buy some extra services with extra costs. Why can't I just buy something simple for lost luggage and missed flights without all kinds of "What if you die and need a lawyer?" nonsense?
Because what if you die and need a lawyer?

Nah. Nothing's going to happen. The worst thing that could happen is me getting annoyed over delayed flights.
What sort of insurance is this? Travel insurance I assume?
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21447 on: July 09, 2014, 04:28:02 PM »
Yes. I already have a home insurance and our goverment/communes provide our health care so I have no need for health insurance.
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21448 on: July 10, 2014, 02:55:50 AM »
That sobering time of the night when you realize nobody in America is online but you.
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21449 on: July 10, 2014, 02:57:37 AM »
That sobering time of the night when you realize nobody in America is online but you.

Lo, I am with you.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21450 on: July 10, 2014, 03:16:06 AM »
Well, good night.
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Offline john_mo

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21451 on: July 10, 2014, 03:29:08 AM »
Yes. I already have a home insurance and our goverment/communes provide our health care so I have no need for health insurance.

I had the same question.  Perhaps it's something to do with your healthcare while travelling?
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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21452 on: July 10, 2014, 03:32:43 AM »
Yes. I already have a home insurance and our goverment/communes provide our health care so I have no need for health insurance.

I had the same question.  Perhaps it's something to do with your healthcare while travelling?

Not all health insurance covers you if you travel abroad.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21453 on: July 10, 2014, 05:00:42 AM »
Yes. I already have a home insurance and our goverment/communes provide our health care so I have no need for health insurance.

I had the same question.  Perhaps it's something to do with your healthcare while travelling?

That's part of the problem. I don't want to have health insurance. Govermental health care does not cover travelling abroad but I don't think anything is going to happen so I don't want any useless extra services.

Anyway, I contacted the insurance company and I got some discount for my travel insurance because I already have a certain kind of home insurance from the same company. Yay! Problem solved.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 05:02:56 AM by Alpo »
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21454 on: July 10, 2014, 05:14:33 AM »
Yes. I already have a home insurance and our goverment/communes provide our health care so I have no need for health insurance.

I had the same question.  Perhaps it's something to do with your healthcare while travelling?

That's part of the problem. I don't want to have health insurance. Govermental health care does not cover travelling abroad but I don't think anything is going to happen so I don't want any useless extra services.

Live forever, Alpo! :)  But good that it worked out.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21455 on: July 10, 2014, 05:17:01 AM »
That sobering time of the night when you realize nobody in America is online but you.

Why are you awake then?
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

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νὰ μὴ ζητήσουνε νὰ βροῦν ποιός ἢμουν
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21456 on: July 10, 2014, 05:19:37 AM »
I thought about this some time ago. I live in a relatively safe country whick might make me slightly optimistic about conditions in other countries. No Hmong gangs or anything around here.
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21457 on: July 10, 2014, 05:42:24 AM »
I'll be off to Spain for a few weeks without internet. I'll try to break with my OC.net addiction for good. So perhaps I'll finally rid you of myself on a somewhat permanent basis. Take care everyone.

« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 05:46:32 AM by Cyrillic »
At nunc desertis cessant sacraria lucis:
aurum omnes victa iam pietate colunt.
-Propertius, Elegies III.XIII:47-48

Ἀπ' ὃσα ἒκαμα κι ἀπ’ ὃσα εἶπα
νὰ μὴ ζητήσουνε νὰ βροῦν ποιός ἢμουν
-C.P Cavafy

Offline hecma925

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21458 on: July 10, 2014, 05:45:02 AM »
I'll be off to Spain for a few weeks without internet. I'll try to break with my OC.net addiction for good. So perhaps I'll finally rid you of myself on a somewhat permanent basis. Take care everyone  :)

Enjoy!
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21459 on: July 10, 2014, 11:10:09 AM »
Justin has not been on for 4 days.  That is like 6 years in forum time.

Cyrillic, if you break the oc.net habit, I will come to your country and force Amsterdam pot brownies down your throat until you capitulate.
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Offline Punch

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21460 on: July 10, 2014, 01:14:23 PM »
Otherwise, why would we have cared about Communism as early as we did?

America didn't, until the Berlin Blockade and the Coup in Czechoslovakia in 1948. Then very few could deny that Joe wanted to turn the world Red.


Communisim was a worry in the Unitied States as early as the 1920's, and there have been government efforts to quell communism in this country since then.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21461 on: July 10, 2014, 02:45:46 PM »
Otherwise, why would we have cared about Communism as early as we did?

America didn't, until the Berlin Blockade and the Coup in Czechoslovakia in 1948. Then very few could deny that Joe wanted to turn the world Red.


Communisim was a worry in the Unitied States as early as the 1920's, and there have been government efforts to quell communism in this country since then.

True, but during the presidency of FDR the political climate became very sympathetic to the Soviets and didn't shift until after WWII and the Berlin blockade.

Offline Alpo

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21462 on: July 10, 2014, 05:05:04 PM »
Just realized that I'm going to spend 5 hours in Holy Russia on saturday.
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21463 on: July 10, 2014, 11:53:17 PM »
My insurance company wants me to buy some extra services with extra costs. Why can't I just buy something simple for lost luggage and missed flights without all kinds of "What if you die and need a lawyer?" nonsense?
Because what if you die and need a lawyer?

What about this guy?



(As afterlife lawyer I mean.)

From what I see, he looks like a very reliable lawyer  ;)
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Offline john_mo

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Re: Random Postings
« Reply #21464 on: July 11, 2014, 02:39:52 PM »
Just realized that I'm going to spend 5 hours in Holy Russia on saturday.

Where in?
Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

—G.K. Chesterton