Author Topic: Random Postings  (Read 2084870 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline William

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,354
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20610 on: May 02, 2014, 06:04:19 PM »
Did the Lord Jesus think?
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline methodius

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 479
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20611 on: May 02, 2014, 06:12:30 PM »
Mankind and the angels are 'created' beings;
the 'creature' cannot 'know' the Creator.

And the Theotokos is a human being - the highest of the high
but a 'creature' nonetheless.She is not God so she cannot know/partake of the Divine Essences.
and yes, of course she can know her Son, insofar as He is perfect Man -(as well as perfect God.)
kyrie eleison

Offline William

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,354
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20612 on: May 02, 2014, 06:12:53 PM »
James and I were discussing how Christ must not have an intellect since He does not have a gnomic will. I have been pondering on how to give up on having an intellect. Maybe that is what OC.net is for?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 06:13:39 PM by William »
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline methodius

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 479
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20613 on: May 02, 2014, 06:15:13 PM »
@William: well what do  -  you -- think?
He is, after all 'Perfect Man.'
Men think.
kyrie eleison

Offline biro

  • Excelsior
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,594
  • Leave me alone, I was only singing
    • Alaska Volcanoes
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20614 on: May 02, 2014, 06:15:18 PM »
James and I were discussing how Christ must not have an intellect since He does not have a gnomic will. I have been pondering on how to give up on having an intellect. Maybe that is what OC.net is for?

That's what the Politics board is for. ;)
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

--

And if I seem a little strange, well, that's because I am

Offline methodius

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 479
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20615 on: May 02, 2014, 06:27:33 PM »
your conclusion is based on a faulty premise. Lack of gnomic will does not 'ipso facto' result in, nor imply a lack of intellect.
For instance, what was Jesus at  the age of twelve doing, if not using His intellect when debating with the elders of the Temple.?
Was His intellect not involved when He drove the merchants and money-changers from the Temple?
and so on...
kyrie eleison

Offline William

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,354
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20616 on: May 02, 2014, 06:29:26 PM »
your conclusion is based on a faulty premise. Lack of gnomic will does not 'ipso facto' result in, nor imply a lack of intellect.
For instance, what was Jesus at  the age of twelve doing, if not using His intellect when debating with the elders of the Temple.?
Was His intellect not involved when He drove the merchants and money-changers from the Temple?
and so on...

The words came from His heart and did not need refinement in an evil mind.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline methodius

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 479
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20617 on: May 02, 2014, 06:37:13 PM »
evil mind?!!!!!
how do you arrive at that conclusion?
remember, 'Perfect Man' as well as 'Perfect God.'

In any case, the 'fasting and praying' which He did so often would have purified an 'evil mind.'
kyrie eleison

Offline William

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,354
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20618 on: May 02, 2014, 06:38:51 PM »
That is not to say that Christ had an evil mind, but that minds in general are evil (Genesis 6:5), and so Christ lacked a mind at all.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline methodius

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 479
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20619 on: May 02, 2014, 07:03:18 PM »
all men have minds; ( well, in theory, anyway!) although sometimes it's hard to determine!
Christ is a Man (The Man we all should have been)
so Christ has a mind.
Could a person - any person- go through the agony in the Garden of Gethsename without an intellect?
kyrie eleison

Online Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,806
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20620 on: May 02, 2014, 07:04:54 PM »
That is not to say that Christ had an evil mind, but that minds in general are evil (Genesis 6:5), and so Christ lacked a mind at all.

Apollinarianism?

Offline methodius

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 479
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20621 on: May 02, 2014, 07:11:38 PM »
sho' nuff.
An egreeegious heresy!


*makes the sign of the Cross*
Perhaps  William could 'google' apollinarianism to see just what the definition is; and how it fits his argument.
kyrie eleison

Offline William

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,354
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20622 on: May 02, 2014, 07:17:45 PM »
That is not to say that Christ had an evil mind, but that minds in general are evil (Genesis 6:5), and so Christ lacked a mind at all.

Apollinarianism?

It is not that Christ is a human body inhabited by God in lieu of a soul as the accursed Apollinaris taught, but that Christ's human nature was so thoroughly deified that it had no need of postlapsarian creations such as a deliberating intellect. The same is true of the saints who learn to eliminate their thoughts and make their minds completely silent and still. So my heresy at the very least is not incarnational.
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline JamesR

  • Virginal Chicano Blood
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,560
  • 1951-2015 Memory Eternal Uncle Roy--40 Days of Mourning.
  • Faith: Misotheistic Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20623 on: May 02, 2014, 07:27:35 PM »
I had a very bizarre dream the other morning.

Pray tell.

Well, perhaps it was induced by the cherry popsicle and aspirins I took to deal with my migraine, but the dream was a series of bizarre events.

First, I was at the dentist about to get a root canal, but the dentist was possessed by the yellow-eyed demon Azazel so I threw a molotov cocktail on him and escaped out the window. Then I was at Church, and the service kept systematically changing. First it was Pascha night, and for some reason my Priest gave me the Eucharist with unleavened bread and I thought it was heretical and almost had a temper tantrum, then it became the Nativity and the power went out in my Church. Then out of nowhere 6 attractive blonde women came up to me in a single-file line and each hugged and kissed me, telling me how much they loved a straight-edged virginal religious man (that's when I knew I was dreaming) and then I was on the couch with my brother watching Anthony Burdain's No Reservations, and my dad was clapping and cheering me on for attracting so many girls. Then I woke up and that was that.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Online Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,806
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20624 on: May 02, 2014, 07:32:51 PM »
Unless I am misunderstanding you, St. Gregory (see these letters) seems to argue against what you are saying. Apollinarius apparently thought that Christ had a human soul and body, but not a mind. To this St. Gregory argued that the whole human person fell from grace (including mind), and so the whole human person needed to be part of the solution. This is where the famous phrase comes in about: "that which is not assumed is not healed." Though once you get into discussions of will and assent I suppose I am not aware enough about the details.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 07:34:45 PM by Asteriktos »

Offline methodius

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 479
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20625 on: May 02, 2014, 07:36:05 PM »
a 'deliberating intellect'  is NOT a postlapsarian, we - mankind - were created in the 'image and likeness' of God.
The 'image' is our reasoning power. That is how we were created - at the beginning.
The 'likeness' of course is what we strive to achieve in theosis.
Do some reading in Irenaeus - Adversus haerises.
kyrie eleison

Offline William

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,354
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20626 on: May 02, 2014, 07:46:54 PM »
a 'deliberating intellect'  is NOT a postlapsarian, we - mankind - were created in the 'image and likeness' of God.
The 'image' is our reasoning power. That is how we were created - at the beginning.
The 'likeness' of course is what we strive to achieve in theosis.
Do some reading in Irenaeus - Adversus haerises.

Actually, it is a well established tenet of Orthodox Christology that Christ did not deliberate, following St. Maximus and co. in the monothelete controversy.

Remember that the fruit that Eve and Adam ate was of "knowledge of good and evil." Ironically, instead of becoming like God as Satan promised, they fell from God, for God does not know how to choose evil like man does.

Asteriktos, you're right that St. Gregory wrote that Christ assumed and healed the intellect. But what did he mean by intellect? One that can give equal weight to good and evil during deliberations?
Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Offline DeniseDenise

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,029
  • This place holds to nothing....
  • Faith: Does it matter?
  • Jurisdiction: Unverifiable, so irrelevant
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20627 on: May 03, 2014, 10:29:17 AM »
The lady that called this in will be getting free sodas for life at every place in town...


When Chelsie Shellhas saw a tall young man slip into a storage locker and shut the door behind him one evening this week, it just looked wrong. She dialed 911.
Her instincts were right: Behind the door were bomb-making materials, police in Wacesa, Minnesota, said Thursday. Her call thwarted a cunningly planned gun and bomb attack at a school, they say.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/02/justice/minnesota-attack-thwarted/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Offline biro

  • Excelsior
  • Site Supporter
  • Hoplitarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,594
  • Leave me alone, I was only singing
    • Alaska Volcanoes
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20628 on: May 03, 2014, 11:01:22 AM »
He will come again with glory to judge the living and the dead. His kingdom will have no end.

--

And if I seem a little strange, well, that's because I am

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,025
  • "In those days I will pour out my Spirit..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20629 on: May 03, 2014, 05:41:08 PM »
Well, perhaps it was induced by the cherry popsicle and aspirins I took to deal with my migraine, but the dream was a series of bizarre events.

First, I was at the dentist about to get a root canal, but the dentist was possessed by the yellow-eyed demon Azazel so I threw a molotov cocktail on him and escaped out the window. Then I was at Church, and the service kept systematically changing. First it was Pascha night, and for some reason my Priest gave me the Eucharist with unleavened bread and I thought it was heretical and almost had a temper tantrum, then it became the Nativity and the power went out in my Church. Then out of nowhere 6 attractive blonde women came up to me in a single-file line and each hugged and kissed me, telling me how much they loved a straight-edged virginal religious man (that's when I knew I was dreaming) and then I was on the couch with my brother watching Anthony Burdain's No Reservations, and my dad was clapping and cheering me on for attracting so many girls. Then I woke up and that was that.

That sounds more or less like most of the dreams I have that I can remember upon waking: a series of nonsensical, seemingly unconnected events that are a mix of things earthly and hellish. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline Nephi

  • Monster Tamer
  • Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,762
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20630 on: May 04, 2014, 06:34:23 PM »
^Almost every dream I have and remember is apocalyptic for some reason. Either the world is ending (a different way each time) or some other cataclysmic event is taking place. I don't know why.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,025
  • "In those days I will pour out my Spirit..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20631 on: May 04, 2014, 06:48:38 PM »
^Almost every dream I have and remember is apocalyptic for some reason. Either the world is ending (a different way each time) or some other cataclysmic event is taking place. I don't know why.

Once, in my dreams, I got off the school bus, walked to my home, and opened the door, only to have really loud death metal blasting from some huge speakers that I didn't own, and Marvel Comics' Ghost Rider, skull aflame, run me over with his motorcycle.

Those are entertaining.  When I see future events and they come true, however, that creeps me out a little.   
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline DeniseDenise

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,029
  • This place holds to nothing....
  • Faith: Does it matter?
  • Jurisdiction: Unverifiable, so irrelevant
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20632 on: May 04, 2014, 06:51:19 PM »
^Almost every dream I have and remember is apocalyptic for some reason. Either the world is ending (a different way each time) or some other cataclysmic event is taking place. I don't know why.

Once, in my dreams, I got off the school bus, walked to my home, and opened the door, only to have really loud death metal blasting from some huge speakers that I didn't own, and Marvel Comics' Ghost Rider, skull aflame, run me over with his motorcycle.
]

so you had a dream that you were Asteriktos??

Offline Nephi

  • Monster Tamer
  • Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,762
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20633 on: May 04, 2014, 07:01:54 PM »
^Almost every dream I have and remember is apocalyptic for some reason. Either the world is ending (a different way each time) or some other cataclysmic event is taking place. I don't know why.

Once, in my dreams, I got off the school bus, walked to my home, and opened the door, only to have really loud death metal blasting from some huge speakers that I didn't own, and Marvel Comics' Ghost Rider, skull aflame, run me over with his motorcycle.

Those are entertaining.  When I see future events and they come true, however, that creeps me out a little.   

That does sound interesting, minus the getting run over bit. I think I've always had strange dreams, when I think about it. The first dream I can remember was when I was like 4, and in it my mom was swallowed whole by a snake who then went back into his hole in the ground.

One of the dreams I had in middle school was my entire class having been taken captive by these little goblin things and led single-file into a big, boiling pot.

An apocalyptic dream I had a while back had a surprise-twist ending, though. In the dream, parts of the world were slowly yet systematically being destroyed by cataclysmic events/storms, until finally it my area's time to perish (part of the dream, IIRC, was me on the run and watching the destruction on the news). Then next thing you know, this deity-figure recreates the world all nice and happy-like, and there we go.

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,025
  • "In those days I will pour out my Spirit..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20634 on: May 04, 2014, 07:02:22 PM »
so you had a dream that you were Asteriktos??

No, but I could do a lot worse.  ;)
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Online Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,806
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20635 on: May 04, 2014, 08:08:28 PM »
Being forced to listen to death metal would be my nightmare. :police:

Offline Nephi

  • Monster Tamer
  • Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,762
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20636 on: May 04, 2014, 08:28:42 PM »
Being forced to listen to death metal would be my nightmare. :police:

Even melodic death metal? I haven't listened to the stuff in years, but In Flames was good back in the day.

Offline WPM

  • Revolutionary Writer
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 3,086
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20637 on: May 04, 2014, 08:29:57 PM »
Not everything fits in the context of  Christianity.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 08:31:00 PM by WPM »

Online Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,806
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20638 on: May 04, 2014, 08:56:30 PM »
Being forced to listen to death metal would be my nightmare. :police:

Even melodic death metal? I haven't listened to the stuff in years, but In Flames was good back in the day.

Yeah, I think I have one death metal record, and haven't liked anything else I've heard from that type of music.

Online Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,806
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20639 on: May 04, 2014, 08:57:24 PM »
Not everything fits in the context of  Christianity.

Like Texas!

Online Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,806
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20640 on: May 04, 2014, 10:05:37 PM »
This place is dead tonight. Everyone praying their 3 hour long nightly prayer rule or something? Lord be with you, pious hearts!

Offline DeniseDenise

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,029
  • This place holds to nothing....
  • Faith: Does it matter?
  • Jurisdiction: Unverifiable, so irrelevant
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20641 on: May 04, 2014, 10:11:02 PM »
wore themselves out arguing

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Section Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,025
  • "In those days I will pour out my Spirit..."
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20642 on: May 04, 2014, 11:23:15 PM »
This place is dead tonight. Everyone praying their 3 hour long nightly prayer rule or something? Lord be with you, pious hearts!

I haven't started yet...   :'(
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Mor no longer posts on OCNet.  He follows threads, posts his responses daily, occasionally starts threads, and responds to private messages when and as he wants.  But he really isn't around anymore.


Offline ilyazhito

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 949
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20643 on: May 05, 2014, 12:38:45 AM »
I'll help you guys start.
Blessed is our God, always now and ever and unto the ages of ages.

Offline methodius

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 479
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20644 on: May 05, 2014, 12:51:05 AM »
A-men
kyrie eleison

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,307
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20645 on: May 05, 2014, 12:52:47 AM »
In peace, let us pray to the Lord.

Offline methodius

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 479
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20646 on: May 05, 2014, 12:54:20 AM »
kyrie eleison
kyrie eleison

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,307
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20647 on: May 05, 2014, 01:01:05 AM »
For the peace from above and for the salvation of our souls let us pray to the Lord

Offline methodius

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 479
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20648 on: May 05, 2014, 01:09:22 AM »
c'mon guys; I just got back from a looong DL; no more Great Litany please?
besides which the Deacon is giving me lessons in being a Reader.
all in all; a very full day.

We have seen the True Light...!
kyrie eleison

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,307
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20649 on: May 05, 2014, 01:17:37 AM »
c'mon guys; I just got back from a looong DL; no more Great Litany please?

Gee, I was trying to do the entire DL in this thread.  Now all the fun has been spoiled.   :o

Offline methodius

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 479
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20650 on: May 05, 2014, 01:20:56 AM »
why don't you just cut to the Agapé and maybe that way I can get some of the sushi
the kids grabbed while I wasn't looking!
kyrie eleison

Online Justin Kissel

  • •|•|•
  • Protospatharios
  • ****************
  • Posts: 31,806
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20651 on: May 05, 2014, 01:26:33 AM »
Gee, I was trying to do the entire DL in this thread. 

Possibly the only thing that could be posted on this thread that would be more boring than the "...beers on the wall" stuff early on?  :P  :D

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,307
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20652 on: May 05, 2014, 01:29:27 AM »
Gee, I was trying to do the entire DL in this thread. 

Possibly the only thing that could be posted on this thread that would be more boring than the "...beers on the wall" stuff early on?  :P  :D

Verses from the Bible....

Offline methodius

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 479
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20653 on: May 05, 2014, 01:29:51 AM »
well, if they were British, Belgian or German beers, that would be excellent : all 99 of them - properly chilled of course.
kyrie eleison

Offline methodius

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 479
Re: Random Postings
« Reply #20654 on: May 05, 2014, 01:31:54 AM »
How about all the 'begats'?

Or Numbers 1,1 to end -- in the Septuagint text, of course.

zzzzzzz
kyrie eleison