OrthodoxChristianity.net
August 29, 2014, 08:25:58 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Random Postings  (Read 1661884 times) Average Rating: 5
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,411



« Reply #16875 on: July 26, 2013, 10:51:43 PM »

*gets lost on the holodeck while trying to simulate the rapture*

The other day, I searched for pictures of the Rapture on Google Images.  There are some exceptionally bizarre paintings of people flying high in the sky towards the Lord resembling certain little swimmers headed for a particular egg. 
LOL!!! The saved are impregnating heaven?  That is a new one for me.  Cheesy
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Faith: Agnostic
Posts: 29,543



« Reply #16876 on: July 26, 2013, 10:54:46 PM »

My night in a nutshell:

Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Faith: Agnostic
Posts: 29,543



« Reply #16877 on: July 26, 2013, 10:56:34 PM »

*gets lost on the holodeck while trying to simulate the rapture*

Mr. Broccoli, is that you?
Logged
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,411



« Reply #16878 on: July 26, 2013, 10:56:45 PM »

Silence!  This is important, you need to know what the end times will look like.

Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,411



« Reply #16879 on: July 26, 2013, 10:57:56 PM »

My night in a nutshell:


Asteriktos, you are so much more attractive than I had initially thought.  Your eye shadow is fantastic!
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Faith: Agnostic
Posts: 29,543



« Reply #16880 on: July 26, 2013, 10:58:59 PM »

Warning: objects may be uglier in reality than they appear in the image.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 10:59:28 PM by Asteriktos » Logged
William
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,306


« Reply #16881 on: July 26, 2013, 11:00:45 PM »

My night in a nutshell:


Asteriktos, you are so much more attractive than I had initially thought.  Your eye shadow is fantastic!

You think cakeface is attractive?
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,411



« Reply #16882 on: July 26, 2013, 11:01:34 PM »

That was really uncalled for.  Apologize to Asteriktos immediately!
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Faith: Agnostic
Posts: 29,543



« Reply #16883 on: July 26, 2013, 11:04:28 PM »

It's ok. I was a butterface in high school, and my self-esteem has never quite recovered, thus the makeup.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 11:04:42 PM by Asteriktos » Logged
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,411



« Reply #16884 on: July 26, 2013, 11:06:45 PM »

It's ok. I was a butterface in high school, and my self-esteem has never quite recovered, thus the makeup.
You just look so sad in that picture, I wish I could come over and give you a nice backrub.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
TheMathematician
Banished and Disgraced
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Serbian
Posts: 1,421


Formerly known as Montalo


« Reply #16885 on: July 26, 2013, 11:07:37 PM »

Joyce is a harder read than Shakespeare is
Logged

SCREW BON JOVI!
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Faith: Agnostic
Posts: 29,543



« Reply #16886 on: July 26, 2013, 11:08:16 PM »

It's ok. I was a butterface in high school, and my self-esteem has never quite recovered, thus the makeup.
You just look so sad in that picture, I wish I could come over and give you a nice backrub.

I feel funny about this. Not ha ha funny either.  Shocked Cool
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Faith: Agnostic
Posts: 29,543



« Reply #16887 on: July 26, 2013, 11:08:33 PM »

Joyce is a harder read than Shakespeare is

But is he better?
Logged
William
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,306


« Reply #16888 on: July 26, 2013, 11:09:41 PM »

Trisagion, why does your faith tag say Orthodox? Aren't you a catechumen?
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
therovingmethodist
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Catecuhmen
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 118


A very bad Christian


« Reply #16889 on: July 26, 2013, 11:11:28 PM »

Joyce is a harder read than Shakespeare is

But is he better?

Blasphemy!! The Bard is not of an age, but for all time! police
Logged

"One Bishop to rule them all, One Bishop to find them, One Bishop to bring them all and in the darkness bind them"
-Kostac
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,379


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #16890 on: July 26, 2013, 11:12:07 PM »

Official catechumens are considered members, even if not yet baptised, last I checked.  
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
William
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,306


« Reply #16891 on: July 26, 2013, 11:27:21 PM »

Official catechumens are considered members, even if not yet baptised, last I checked.  

What are you talking about?
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,411



« Reply #16892 on: July 26, 2013, 11:27:26 PM »

Official catechumens are considered members, even if not yet baptised, last I checked.  
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
LBK
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,520


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #16893 on: July 26, 2013, 11:28:24 PM »

Joyce is a harder read than Shakespeare is

Oh, dear God, having to study Dubliners in high school was a truly vile and depressing experience ....  Tongue Tongue Tongue
Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,379


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #16894 on: July 26, 2013, 11:40:01 PM »

Official catechumens are considered members, even if not yet baptised, last I checked.  

What are you talking about?

Well, if Trisagion is not an official catechumen, I apologise and agree with you that "Orthodox" would not technically apply to him.  But I presumed from previous posts that he was an official catechumen, in which case he is considered a member of the Orthodox Church, even if not baptised and therefore a "full" member. 

So what are you talking about?   
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,379


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #16895 on: July 26, 2013, 11:40:49 PM »

Oh, dear God, having to study Dubliners in high school was a truly vile and depressing experience ....  Tongue Tongue Tongue

Is it really that bad?  I have it on my short list of things I want to start reading.  I even took it out of storage and put it on my main shelf.  Tongue
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
William
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,306


« Reply #16896 on: July 26, 2013, 11:46:43 PM »

Official catechumens are considered members, even if not yet baptised, last I checked.  

What are you talking about?

Well, if Trisagion is not an official catechumen, I apologise and agree with you that "Orthodox" would not technically apply to him.  But I presumed from previous posts that he was an official catechumen, in which case he is considered a member of the Orthodox Church, even if not baptised and therefore a "full" member. 

So what are you talking about?   

I am asking you where you got this idea that catechumens are members of the Orthodox church.
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Faith: Agnostic
Posts: 29,543



« Reply #16897 on: July 26, 2013, 11:48:33 PM »

Joyce is a harder read than Shakespeare is

But is he better?

Blasphemy!! The Bard is not of an age, but for all time! police

"I have tried lately to read Shakespeare, and found it so intolerably dull that it nauseated me." - Charles Darwin  Shocked
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Faith: Agnostic
Posts: 29,543



« Reply #16898 on: July 26, 2013, 11:49:17 PM »

If I shoot him now and he dies, he gets an Orthodox burial. So there's that.  police
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 11:49:28 PM by Asteriktos » Logged
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,411



« Reply #16899 on: July 26, 2013, 11:53:53 PM »

Official catechumens are considered members, even if not yet baptised, last I checked.  

What are you talking about?

Well, if Trisagion is not an official catechumen, I apologise and agree with you that "Orthodox" would not technically apply to him.  But I presumed from previous posts that he was an official catechumen, in which case he is considered a member of the Orthodox Church, even if not baptised and therefore a "full" member. 

So what are you talking about?   

I am asking you where you got this idea that catechumens are members of the Orthodox church.

http://st-innocent.org/becomingorthodox.html

Quote from: from article
During this time catechumens are on some level members of the church.  For example if during this time they would die for their faith the Church would bury them.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Faith: Agnostic
Posts: 29,543



« Reply #16900 on: July 26, 2013, 11:58:41 PM »


Of all the parishes I've seen in America, in person or on the net, that is, architecturally speaking, my favorite.
Logged
William
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,306


« Reply #16901 on: July 27, 2013, 12:09:10 AM »

Official catechumens are considered members, even if not yet baptised, last I checked.  

What are you talking about?

Well, if Trisagion is not an official catechumen, I apologise and agree with you that "Orthodox" would not technically apply to him.  But I presumed from previous posts that he was an official catechumen, in which case he is considered a member of the Orthodox Church, even if not baptised and therefore a "full" member. 

So what are you talking about?   

I am asking you where you got this idea that catechumens are members of the Orthodox church.

http://st-innocent.org/becomingorthodox.html

Quote from: from article
During this time catechumens are on some level members of the church.  For example if during this time they would die for their faith the Church would bury them.

That doesn't say what Mor Ephrem said.
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,379


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #16902 on: July 27, 2013, 12:11:20 AM »

I am asking you where you got this idea that catechumens are members of the Orthodox church.

Well, bishops, for one.  I've spoken to many.    

They get a funeral if they die before they are baptised, so there's that.  The funeral is not "one of the seven sacraments" (a Latin innovation, as I'm sure I don't need to tell you...), but it has not infrequently been treated as a sacrament in the larger tradition of the Church, and it's not like they're given out freely to visitors like antidoron.  I did my M.Div. thesis on funeral rites in the Orthodox Church, so I know something about those, as the degree-granting faculty will vouch if challenged.    

Catechumens are allowed to attend the Liturgy in the nave until their dismissal, at which point various traditions exist for what they do (e.g., stand outside the doors in the narthex and pray, go home, etc.).  Traditionally, you wouldn't be allowed to enter the nave if you were just some guy off the street who was interested in esoteric Christian art (let alone the nave for the Liturgy) because there was a porter or subdeacon to watch the doors, so that's another thing.  "The doors, the doors" isn't just a cool thing to say.  It means something.    

And that's beside the fact that there's the prickly problem of what to do about "catechumens" who are going to be received by some form of economy because their previous baptisms (and/or chrismation, if applicable) are deemed acceptable.  Can you be a catechumen if you are baptised?  Perhaps you want to stand by the commonly held belief that "economy fills the grace that is lacking in the heterodox shell of a sacrament", but that alone won't get you across the finish line unless you ignore history.  

What's your reason for holding to the idea that catechumens are not members of the Church?  

Edited to take out a double negative.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 12:14:14 AM by Mor Ephrem » Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
William
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,306


« Reply #16903 on: July 27, 2013, 12:13:19 AM »

What's your reason for holding to the idea that catechumens are not members of the Church?    

Baptism and the Eucharist.
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,379


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #16904 on: July 27, 2013, 12:17:22 AM »

What's your reason for holding to the idea that catechumens are not members of the Church?    

Baptism and the Eucharist.

That's cute, but no; perhaps you'd prefer to explain yourself a bit more. 

I never said they were "full" members, but they're not visitors either, they're definitely members.  Read the rite for making a catechumen.  The prayer and the ritual are clearly claiming the catechumen for the Church, even if their membership is not full until consummated in the laver and at the altar.   
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
LBK
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,520


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #16905 on: July 27, 2013, 12:22:53 AM »

Oh, dear God, having to study Dubliners in high school was a truly vile and depressing experience ....  Tongue Tongue Tongue

Is it really that bad?  I have it on my short list of things I want to start reading.  I even took it out of storage and put it on my main shelf.  Tongue

If you do decide to read it, be prepared for any gastrointestinal or psychological disturbances which might ensue. Turgid and increasingly depressing with each story ...
Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,379


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #16906 on: July 27, 2013, 12:25:28 AM »

That's funny.  Now I'll have to figure out something else to read if that doesn't work out...
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
William
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,306


« Reply #16907 on: July 27, 2013, 12:31:37 AM »

What's your reason for holding to the idea that catechumens are not members of the Church?    

Baptism and the Eucharist.

That's cute, but no; perhaps you'd prefer to explain yourself a bit more. 

I never said they were "full" members, but they're not visitors either, they're definitely members.  Read the rite for making a catechumen.  The prayer and the ritual are clearly claiming the catechumen for the Church, even if their membership is not full until consummated in the laver and at the altar.   

Having a proper regard for how the sacraments affect one's ecclesiological standing is "cute"?

Your use of qualifiers is a red herring. If they aren't "full members" they are not members, sophistry aside.
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,379


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #16908 on: July 27, 2013, 12:41:47 AM »

Having a proper regard for how the sacraments affect one's ecclesiological standing is "cute"?

Your use of qualifiers is a red herring. If they aren't "full members" they are not members, sophistry aside.

Are you even Orthodox?  Given your strong feelings on the matter, I imagine you'd say "Orthodox" if you were, but since you only indicate "Christian", I'm guessing not.  In which case, I really shouldn't discuss this with you.  We don't discuss the mysteries with those outside our fellowship.   

My use of qualifiers is not sophistry.  It's not a matter of "You can't be a little pregnant or a little dead", no matter how much you want it to be.  It's a matter of knowing what I'm talking about.  It's not my Church, I didn't make it this way.  The Church gives me services and tells me to worship, and I do.  She tells me they mean what they intend to do, and I believe her.  Her bishops interpret the canons, and I accept their authority.  I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you.  If you want, go make your own Church. 
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,411



« Reply #16909 on: July 27, 2013, 12:44:57 AM »

What's your reason for holding to the idea that catechumens are not members of the Church?    

Baptism and the Eucharist.

That's cute, but no; perhaps you'd prefer to explain yourself a bit more. 

I never said they were "full" members, but they're not visitors either, they're definitely members.  Read the rite for making a catechumen.  The prayer and the ritual are clearly claiming the catechumen for the Church, even if their membership is not full until consummated in the laver and at the altar.   

Having a proper regard for how the sacraments affect one's ecclesiological standing is "cute"?

Your use of qualifiers is a red herring. If they aren't "full members" they are not members, sophistry aside.
I think the cute is more directed at your attempts to discredit catechumens as being a part of the Orthodox Church rather than against the sacraments.  Regardless, I have even asked several different priests if it is appropriate for a catechumen to call themselves Orthodox and I was advised that it is acceptable.  If your priest, bishop or metropolitan would like to request that I cease from doing so, please have them contact me and I would be glad to discuss it with them.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
William
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,306


« Reply #16910 on: July 27, 2013, 12:45:21 AM »

Having a proper regard for how the sacraments affect one's ecclesiological standing is "cute"?

Your use of qualifiers is a red herring. If they aren't "full members" they are not members, sophistry aside.

Are you even Orthodox?  Given your strong feelings on the matter, I imagine you'd say "Orthodox" if you were, but since you only indicate "Christian", I'm guessing not.  In which case, I really shouldn't discuss this with you.  We don't discuss the mysteries with those outside our fellowship.

And yet you keep posting. That's odd.

Quote
My use of qualifiers is not sophistry.  It's not a matter of "You can't be a little pregnant or a little dead", no matter how much you want it to be.  It's a matter of knowing what I'm talking about.  It's not my Church, I didn't make it this way.  The Church gives me services and tells me to worship, and I do.  She tells me they mean what they intend to do, and I believe her.  Her bishops interpret the canons, and I accept their authority.  I'm sorry if that's not good enough for you.  If you want, go make your own Church. 

I don't have to make my own church, because the one I'm going to convert to does not consider its catechumens to be members. And you did not provide a shred of evidence to the contrary in your three paragraphs earlier.
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
Ionnis
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Posts: 1,071



« Reply #16911 on: July 27, 2013, 12:53:34 AM »

If a catechumen dies before being baptized they are given an Orthodox funeral.  I personally think that is proof enough.  Of course I have a feeling that William will disagree. 
Logged

"If you cannot find Christ in the beggar at the church door, you will not find Him in the chalice.”  -The Divine John Chrysostom

“Till we can become divine, we must be content to be human, lest in our hurry for change we sink to something lower.” -Anthony Trollope
William
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,306


« Reply #16912 on: July 27, 2013, 12:54:44 AM »

What's your reason for holding to the idea that catechumens are not members of the Church?    

Baptism and the Eucharist.

That's cute, but no; perhaps you'd prefer to explain yourself a bit more. 

I never said they were "full" members, but they're not visitors either, they're definitely members.  Read the rite for making a catechumen.  The prayer and the ritual are clearly claiming the catechumen for the Church, even if their membership is not full until consummated in the laver and at the altar.   

Having a proper regard for how the sacraments affect one's ecclesiological standing is "cute"?

Your use of qualifiers is a red herring. If they aren't "full members" they are not members, sophistry aside.
I think the cute is more directed at your attempts to discredit catechumens as being a part of the Orthodox Church rather than against the sacraments.  Regardless, I have even asked several different priests if it is appropriate for a catechumen to call themselves Orthodox and I was advised that it is acceptable.  If your priest, bishop or metropolitan would like to request that I cease from doing so, please have them contact me and I would be glad to discuss it with them.

So you're a member of the Orthodox church and can self-identify as "Orthodox" without any qualification, but it is okay to commune in another church because you have not been chrismated? So chrismation is entry into the church except when it isn't?
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
Shiny
Site Supporter
Moderated
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Groucho Marxist
Jurisdiction: Dahntahn Stoop Haus
Posts: 13,267


Paint It Red


« Reply #16913 on: July 27, 2013, 12:55:08 AM »

I have no dog in this fight, but I like the Before Christ too. Christ is the very center of human history and the most dominant. Who knew a peniless preacher from Nazareth could be so influential, must be divine intervention...
Logged

“There is your brother, naked, crying, and you stand there confused over the choice of an attractive floor covering.”

– St. Ambrose of Milan
William
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,306


« Reply #16914 on: July 27, 2013, 12:55:37 AM »

If a catechumen dies before being baptized they are given an Orthodox funeral.  I personally think that is proof enough.  Of course I have a feeling that William will disagree. 

Well Ionnis I'm not qualified to speak on that theologically, but isn't their death what the Fathers called the baptism of desire?
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,411



« Reply #16915 on: July 27, 2013, 12:57:50 AM »

What's your reason for holding to the idea that catechumens are not members of the Church?    

Baptism and the Eucharist.

That's cute, but no; perhaps you'd prefer to explain yourself a bit more. 

I never said they were "full" members, but they're not visitors either, they're definitely members.  Read the rite for making a catechumen.  The prayer and the ritual are clearly claiming the catechumen for the Church, even if their membership is not full until consummated in the laver and at the altar.   

Having a proper regard for how the sacraments affect one's ecclesiological standing is "cute"?

Your use of qualifiers is a red herring. If they aren't "full members" they are not members, sophistry aside.
I think the cute is more directed at your attempts to discredit catechumens as being a part of the Orthodox Church rather than against the sacraments.  Regardless, I have even asked several different priests if it is appropriate for a catechumen to call themselves Orthodox and I was advised that it is acceptable.  If your priest, bishop or metropolitan would like to request that I cease from doing so, please have them contact me and I would be glad to discuss it with them.

So you're a member of the Orthodox church and can self-identify as "Orthodox" without any qualification, but it is okay to commune in another church because you have not been chrismated? So chrismation is entry into the church except when it isn't?
Would you like to be my spiritual father, William?  You certainly seem well equipped to counsel and guide me in the path that I should go...

Re: your comment. Being a catechumen IS a qualification.  My wife can't call herself Orthodox because she isn't a catechumen.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
William
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: None
Posts: 4,306


« Reply #16916 on: July 27, 2013, 12:59:56 AM »

What's your reason for holding to the idea that catechumens are not members of the Church?    

Baptism and the Eucharist.

That's cute, but no; perhaps you'd prefer to explain yourself a bit more. 

I never said they were "full" members, but they're not visitors either, they're definitely members.  Read the rite for making a catechumen.  The prayer and the ritual are clearly claiming the catechumen for the Church, even if their membership is not full until consummated in the laver and at the altar.   

Having a proper regard for how the sacraments affect one's ecclesiological standing is "cute"?

Your use of qualifiers is a red herring. If they aren't "full members" they are not members, sophistry aside.
I think the cute is more directed at your attempts to discredit catechumens as being a part of the Orthodox Church rather than against the sacraments.  Regardless, I have even asked several different priests if it is appropriate for a catechumen to call themselves Orthodox and I was advised that it is acceptable.  If your priest, bishop or metropolitan would like to request that I cease from doing so, please have them contact me and I would be glad to discuss it with them.

So you're a member of the Orthodox church and can self-identify as "Orthodox" without any qualification, but it is okay to commune in another church because you have not been chrismated? So chrismation is entry into the church except when it isn't?
Would you like to be my spiritual father, William?  You certainly seem well equipped to counsel and guide me in the path that I should go...

Re: your comment. Being a catechumen IS a qualification.  My wife can't call herself Orthodox because she isn't a catechumen.

Sorry, my spiritual children are already too numerous. A shepherd can only tend to so many sheep, and the young JamesR needs my utmost care.

You said "I have even asked several different priests if it is appropriate for a catechumen to call themselves Orthodox and I was advised that it is acceptable." You did not mention qualifiers.
Logged

Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. - Matt. 5:24
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,411



« Reply #16917 on: July 27, 2013, 01:01:36 AM »

What's your reason for holding to the idea that catechumens are not members of the Church?    

Baptism and the Eucharist.

That's cute, but no; perhaps you'd prefer to explain yourself a bit more. 

I never said they were "full" members, but they're not visitors either, they're definitely members.  Read the rite for making a catechumen.  The prayer and the ritual are clearly claiming the catechumen for the Church, even if their membership is not full until consummated in the laver and at the altar.   

Having a proper regard for how the sacraments affect one's ecclesiological standing is "cute"?

Your use of qualifiers is a red herring. If they aren't "full members" they are not members, sophistry aside.
I think the cute is more directed at your attempts to discredit catechumens as being a part of the Orthodox Church rather than against the sacraments.  Regardless, I have even asked several different priests if it is appropriate for a catechumen to call themselves Orthodox and I was advised that it is acceptable.  If your priest, bishop or metropolitan would like to request that I cease from doing so, please have them contact me and I would be glad to discuss it with them.

So you're a member of the Orthodox church and can self-identify as "Orthodox" without any qualification, but it is okay to commune in another church because you have not been chrismated? So chrismation is entry into the church except when it isn't?
Would you like to be my spiritual father, William?  You certainly seem well equipped to counsel and guide me in the path that I should go...

Re: your comment. Being a catechumen IS a qualification.  My wife can't call herself Orthodox because she isn't a catechumen.

Sorry, my spiritual children are already too numerous. A shepherd can only tend to so many sheep, and the young JamesR needs my utmost care.

You said "I have even asked several different priests if it is appropriate for a catechumen to call themselves Orthodox and I was advised that it is acceptable." You did not mention qualifiers.
Qualifier.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 16,379


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #16918 on: July 27, 2013, 01:02:09 AM »

And yet you keep posting. That's odd.

How original.  You must be very proud of yourself.    

Quote
I don't have to make my own church, because the one I'm going to convert to does not consider its catechumens to be members. And you did not provide a shred of evidence to the contrary in your three paragraphs earlier.

Because the four words "Baptism and the Eucharist" were a stunning refutation of my argument?  Maybe you enjoy fantasy literature too.  

At any rate, I did tell you I've spoken to bishops on the matter.  I'm not going to provide you with a notarised transcript, but you're welcome to ask around yourself and let me know if you come up with something different.  If you want to know more about funeral rites and how they were treated by the Church (and thus how catechumens would get one but you wouldn't), PM me and I'll tell you how to get a hold of my thesis.  And I referred you to the rite for making a catechumen, asking you to pay attention both to the words of the prayer and the attendant ritual.  If multi-tasking is difficult for you, then I'm sorry, but I'm not here to spoon-feed you needed correction.    

Anyway, good luck in your conversion process.    
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,969


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #16919 on: July 27, 2013, 01:04:15 AM »

That's funny.  Now I'll have to figure out something else to read if that doesn't work out...

Who needs Joyce? Have you finished the Russian classics?
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.179 seconds with 71 queries.