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Author Topic: Quick save your Patriarch....  (Read 1592 times) Average Rating: 0
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Silouan
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« on: December 06, 2005, 01:02:43 AM »

Hopefully somebody will tell His all holiness that his is meeting with schismatics in these photos...

http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/news05/paricconspics.htm

Title of post modified.  Please don't name individual members in this way.  Thank you.  SS99
« Last Edit: December 06, 2005, 11:54:55 AM by SouthSerb99 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2005, 01:10:20 AM »

complaint removed by Author for being addressed already by mod..

Otherwise, why don't we ridicule the EP for being hospitable to pilgrims to his direct ecclesiastical jurisdiction?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2005, 12:11:46 PM by cleveland » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2005, 01:18:05 AM »

Really is much of what GiC says necessary?ÂÂ  

My point with the title was that meeting between the EP and the ROCOR delegation didn't seem like any big deal, while GiC would make it out to be that we are the schismatics and not part of the Orthodox Church...
« Last Edit: December 06, 2005, 11:50:41 AM by SouthSerb99 » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2005, 01:42:51 AM »

While I don't think ROCOR is in schism, I don't think that this photograph proves it. The Pope, the Lutherans, the WCC, the Coptic Church, the Archbishop of Canterbury have also all met with the Patriarch. The Archbishop of Canterbury and the Pope both gave him an Icon too, and The Patriarch gave the Church of Sweden a Chalice.....all these visits and gift-exchanging, is there no one in schism?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2005, 11:50:52 AM by SouthSerb99 » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2005, 01:51:45 AM »

No, it doesn't prove anything - that is correct.ÂÂ  But according to GiC the ROCOR being schismatics are WORSE than any of the above mentioned groups.ÂÂ  But pictures like these do mean something http://www.russianorthodoxchurch.ws/01newstucture/pagesen/news04/pavelausphoto.htmlÂÂ  Pictures like that force hardliners in both "World Orthodoxy" and ROCOR to take a step back... that's my thought for the day - maybe we shouldn't believe too deeply in our own propoganda.ÂÂ  
« Last Edit: December 06, 2005, 11:51:02 AM by SouthSerb99 » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2005, 02:02:09 AM »

You see, you had a very good point Nektarios, but it got lost because you made a personal attack on GiC.
This is just what I've been saying in the "spiral of violence" thread....one person feels attacked by another and attacks the person back, and so on and so on......until war erupts and before we know it, we are killing each other, the truth gets lost, and we are publishing books which attempt to justify killing in God's name. This is not how we dialogue, nor how we make peace, nor even how we try to correct someone.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2005, 11:51:15 AM by SouthSerb99 » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2005, 08:59:49 AM »

Psalm 133(132)
Look! See how good, how pleasant it is to live together like brothers! 2) It is like precious ointment on the head, trickling down the beard, trickling down the beard of Aaron, over the collar of his robes. 3) It is like the dew of Hermon descending on the heights of Sion, for there the Lord gives his blessing: life forevermore!
« Last Edit: December 06, 2005, 11:51:28 AM by SouthSerb99 » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2005, 11:47:32 AM »

Psalm 133(132)
Look! See how good, how pleasant it is for brothers to live in unity! 2) It is like precious ointment on the head, trickling down the beard, trickling down the beard of Aaron, over the fringe of his robes. 3) It is like the dew of Hermon descending on the mountains of Sion, for there the Lord gives his blessing: life forevermore!


Of course it means what you understand it to mean but also [anagogically]:

Brothers that live in unity are the three faculties of the human soul, which if they agree in their knowledge of what is true and good =(Orthodoxy), behold the good. If in addition they agree in acting upon this knowledge (Orthopraxis) behold the pleasant.

Then the Holy Spirit (precious oil) descents on the intellect (head) of such a person and is manifested (runs down) in his words (beard), the words that cut off the passions from the soul of his hearers and plant the virtues (such is the beard of Aaron). And finally comes down in his actions, the fringe of his robe. The end of a robe is the fringe, and the end of all spiritual knowledge (robe) is to act righteously. Also since Aaron represents priesthood, fringe are also the spiritual children of priests (remember what the threads of a priest’s stole symbolize? Btw when the priests put on their stole they recite this very psalm.)

Mountains of Zion are the Saints, those who have been baptized with the dew of Hermon, the grace of the Holy Spirit, which repels the wild beasts (passions and demons) from their heart. (Hermon literally means 'repealing of beasts.' Hermon is also topically the source of the Jordan River, which is a symbol of baptism).

(Source: St. Maximus)

Couldn't resistÂÂ  Grin
« Last Edit: December 06, 2005, 11:51:42 AM by SouthSerb99 » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2005, 12:03:56 PM »

We're ecumenists, remember? We'd love to see ROCOR return to the Orthodox Chruch, just as we desire to see this with Rome; thus we extend our ecumenical activities in both instances.

http://www.ec-patr.gr/afieroma/visits/2004/show.php?lang=en&id=25

http://www.ec-patr.gr/afieroma/visits/2004/show.php?lang=en&id=46

http://www.ec-patr.gr/afieroma/visits/2004/show.php?lang=en&id=14
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« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2005, 12:05:57 PM »

Title of post modified.ÂÂ  Please don't name individual members in this way.ÂÂ  Thank you.ÂÂ  SS99

I wouldn't worry too much about it SouthSerb, I'm actually quite flattered Wink
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« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2005, 12:24:14 PM »

Ah but here you are contradicting yourself again, GiC.  You claimed in the past that the official position of the Patriarchate is that the ROCOR/ MP issue is an internal matter of the Russian Church.  Since the MP doesn't see the ROCOR as being outside of Orthodoxy, that would mean neither should Istanbul.   So which is it?

And if the ROCOR is outside of Orthodoxy those pictures of Patriarch Pavle in Eucharistic concelebration with ROCOR priests should be cause for alarm. 
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« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2005, 12:47:36 PM »

Couldn't resistÂÂ  Grin
I guess this is what I get for quoting scripture on an Orthodox forum!  Grin
« Last Edit: December 06, 2005, 12:48:07 PM by Carpatho Russian » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2005, 12:48:11 PM »

Ah but here you are contradicting yourself again, GiC.  You claimed in the past that the official position of the Patriarchate is that the ROCOR/ MP issue is an internal matter of the Russian Church.  Since the MP doesn't see the ROCOR as being outside of Orthodoxy, that would mean neither should Istanbul.  ÃƒÆ’‚ So which is it?

Their communion and return to the Church is an internal issue; but so long as ROCOR does not commemorate the Patriarch of Moscow, and so long as the ROCOR Bishops are not members of the Synod of Moscow, that is to say so long as they are not in Communion with Moscow, it is a simple and straightforward canonical issue. ÂÂ

Quote
And if the ROCOR is outside of Orthodoxy those pictures of Patriarch Pavle in Eucharistic concelebration with ROCOR priests should be cause for alarm.ÂÂ  

While it is unfortunate that the Patriarch of Serbia has decided to celebrate the Eucharist with Excommunicated Bishops of the Synod of Moscow, out of Economy this has been tolerated; ultimatley there's no reason to create a major schism in the Church over a small group of malcontents, especially since they at least seem to be comming to their senses and returning to the Orthodox Church. If the current talks between Moscow and ROCOR break down, however, I do hope that Serbia will have the good sense to break off this façade of communion; but until such time it's not really hurting anything.
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