Author Topic: Exploring a Question  (Read 940 times)

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Offline WPM

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Exploring a Question
« on: September 11, 2019, 10:23:53 AM »
Hello,

According to this brain divergence ~ Y 

The Jews propose belief in a different Hebrew Messiah . . And offer alternatives to the traditional view of "Jesus" as the Messiah? How in the history of Christianity did this come to be . . Is it universally accepted or a given? Maybe I should prepare for the Jewish and Hebrew Messiah if that is major part of God's plan for Sovereign Israel. Looking to what the Rabbi's say (Or priests) . .

1) What is your view about the Messiah? Jesus or no? . .
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 10:26:10 AM by WPM »
The first 5 books of the Bible. (Genesis) (Exodus) (Leviticus) (Numbers) and (Deuteronomy.)

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Exploring a Question
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2019, 12:20:52 PM »
Christians believe that Jesus was the Messiah the Jews had been waiting for, while Jews (in general) do not. You have to decide for yourself which you think is accurate, if either. It's makes sense to investigate. Jesus himself told people to search the Scriptures (Jn. 5:39) and the Bereans were commended for doing so (Acts 17:10-11). According to the NT even the first Christian Apostles--Jews ranging from simple fishermen to well-educated people like Paul--didn't get it in the beginning, and had to be coaxed into understanding things. And afterwards many still had a "veil" over their eyes.  As for me, yes I believe that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah, though not necessarily in the way that many thought he would be (he didn't come to reestablish an earthly kingdom).

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Exploring a Question
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2019, 12:45:28 PM »
Hello,

According to this brain divergence ~ Y 

The Jews propose belief in a different Hebrew Messiah . . And offer alternatives to the traditional view of "Jesus" as the Messiah?
In the beginning of Acts, the disciples ask Jesus when He will restore the Israelite kingdom, and Jesus doesn't give a direct answer. Their question pointed to the basic issue that the rabbinical community has with Jesus' Messiahship. In their view, the Messiah is supposed to restore the ancient Israelite kingdom. This idea can be reflected in the very word "Messiah", which means anointed, but particularly refers to the ancient kings. Certainly the Jews were interested in having their kingdom back.

The Christian answer to this is either (or both) that 1. the Messiah's kingdom is really a spiritual kingdom, the Church/Assembly/Ekklesia, and/or 2. that Christ will return at the Second Coming in the future to build a literal kingdom on a "new" or renewed earth.
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline WPM

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Re: Exploring a Question
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2019, 02:10:12 PM »
(ya'll ~ you all)

You think it's a Hebrew Messianic Kingdom? . .
The first 5 books of the Bible. (Genesis) (Exodus) (Leviticus) (Numbers) and (Deuteronomy.)

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Exploring a Question
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2019, 02:08:53 PM »
(ya'll ~ you all)

You think it's a Hebrew Messianic Kingdom? . .
My take is that the rabbis would say that the Messiah's kingdom is basically Jewish, and thus of course Hebrew, since the Messiah would be Jewish, the descendant Son of David. I think that they would say that the Messiah's kingdom also would include gentiles who submitted to the Messianic kingdom. So it sounds like maybe a caste system with the Jewish Torah-observant members at the top and center of the kingdom. Maybe their ideology would result in something like "Separate but Equal" or something like that when it came to gentile-Jewish relations. The Torah has ritual purity rules that would tend to separate them from gentiles. But this is just my impression, and probably alot of rabbis would say that the details of the Messianic kingdom are not clear. But anyway, in their view it is fundamentally Jewish.

In the Christian view though, the gentiles and Jews are spiritually equal and the ritual demands of the Torah are outdated as Paul writes. In the Messianic kingdom, there would not be such sharp separation between Jews and gentiles, and people either wouldn't have a separate observance of Torah or else they would give up Torah observance. So in the Christian view, it is an "Israelite" kingdom or "Jewish" kingdom in a metaphorical sense, if by "Jewish" you mean spiritually right and united with God. But Christians don't believe that it's literally and politically specifically Jewish, like the Maccabees' kingdom in ancient Judea was.

My take is that the Christian view is correct. If you skim through the TaNaKh, you might come away thinking that the rabbis' view is right, since the TaNaKh is a Hebrew book and would put things in Hebrew cultural terms. But on the other hand, Messianic predictions are metaphorical, dreamlike, spiritual, so this gives deeper weight to the Christian spiritual interpretation.
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20