Author Topic: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed  (Read 846 times)

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Offline CooperDog

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Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« on: September 10, 2019, 08:52:11 AM »
https://abc13.com/community-events/crying-virgin-mary-attracts-crowds-as-historic-church-up-for-sale/5527885/

This is a blessing, Glory to God. We also cant overlook the timing of this blessed event. I pray that they save the church somehow.

I was so happy when i heard that last year an anonymous man pledged alot of money to save the church. But now, they are going to close. What is going on up there?

Offline hecma925

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2019, 10:34:21 AM »
Too many years of sub-par souvlaki sales.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2019, 01:13:34 PM »
Glory to God! Reminds me of a homily I heard from our archbishop.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

May the Blessed Light shine Forth

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2019, 04:27:57 PM »
Immigrants usually start to move when they become financially stable.  This is clearly a situation like the Jeffersons . Moving on up. Problem is no more immigration from Greece and not enough converts to fill there shoes. It's kinda inevitable.

Online Saxon

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2019, 04:45:38 PM »
The sale was approved. I saw the priest coyly speculating on why the Theotokos is crying. A safe bet is the industrial grade financial mismanagement of GOARCH right down to parish level.

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2019, 04:47:46 PM »
The sale was approved. I saw the priest coyly speculating on why the Theotokos is crying. A safe bet is the industrial grade financial mismanagement of GOARCH right down to parish level.

Ding Ding Ding WE HAVE A WINNER!

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Offline Tzimis

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2019, 05:13:04 PM »
Your not listening.  No mismanagement.  Greeks like other ethnic groups tend to move to the suburbs when they are financially stable.  What happens is they build new churches where they live. So the churches left behind do fall into dismay because the funding isn't there any longer.

Online Saxon

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2019, 06:09:16 PM »
Your not listening.  No mismanagement.  Greeks like other ethnic groups tend to move to the suburbs when they are financially stable.  What happens is they build new churches where they live. So the churches left behind do fall into dismay because the funding isn't there any longer.

Greeks have long since relocated to the suburbs, like other Orthodox and Catholicos “ethnic” communities that have moved up the socioeconomic ladder in North America. Yet, most of those parishes aren’t closing. The problem with GOARCH is a lengthy and well-documented (use the search function on this forum) record of financial mismanagement, complemented by the tendency of Greeks to build gigantic and expensive churches that they cannot afford to maintain in the long run, relying on ethnic festivals, dance and language classes, and donations to pay the mortgage and property taxes. Again, they need to drop the ethnophyletism and “Hellenism” and start acting like a church, not an ethnic social club.

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2019, 06:44:41 PM »
Your not listening.  No mismanagement.  Greeks like other ethnic groups tend to move to the suburbs when they are financially stable.  What happens is they build new churches where they live. So the churches left behind do fall into dismay because the funding isn't there any longer.

Greeks have long since relocated to the suburbs, like other Orthodox and Catholicos “ethnic” communities that have moved up the socioeconomic ladder in North America. Yet, most of those parishes aren’t closing. The problem with GOARCH is a lengthy and well-documented (use the search function on this forum) record of financial mismanagement, complemented by the tendency of Greeks to build gigantic and expensive churches that they cannot afford to maintain in the long run, relying on ethnic festivals, dance and language classes, and donations to pay the mortgage and property taxes. Again, they need to drop the ethnophyletism and “Hellenism” and start acting like a church, not an ethnic social club.
Hog wash. Churches are a non for profit and don't pay taxes.  The largest expense is heating,  upkeep of property and the priests salary. Unlike RC who have benefited from an influx of south Americans to continue funding these parishes.  Orthodoxy doesn't have that luxury.  So as communities move out there isn't viable candidates to fill them.
 BTW: RC's are experiencing closure at an alarming rate.  Due to the laws sues being settled via the sale of prime real estate.

Online Saxon

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2019, 06:56:49 PM »
Your not listening.  No mismanagement.  Greeks like other ethnic groups tend to move to the suburbs when they are financially stable.  What happens is they build new churches where they live. So the churches left behind do fall into dismay because the funding isn't there any longer.

Greeks have long since relocated to the suburbs, like other Orthodox and Catholicos “ethnic” communities that have moved up the socioeconomic ladder in North America. Yet, most of those parishes aren’t closing. The problem with GOARCH is a lengthy and well-documented (use the search function on this forum) record of financial mismanagement, complemented by the tendency of Greeks to build gigantic and expensive churches that they cannot afford to maintain in the long run, relying on ethnic festivals, dance and language classes, and donations to pay the mortgage and property taxes. Again, they need to drop the ethnophyletism and “Hellenism” and start acting like a church, not an ethnic social club.
Hog wash. Churches are a non for profit and don't pay taxes.  The largest expense is heating,  upkeep of property and the priests salary. Unlike RC who have benefited from an influx of south Americans to continue funding these parishes.  Orthodoxy doesn't have that luxury.  So as communities move out there isn't viable candidates to fill them.
 BTW: RC's are experiencing closure at an alarming rate.  Due to the laws sues being settled via the sale of prime real estate.

Several Greek parishes in my area have mixed-use zoning because there are community centres physically attached to them, meaning municipal taxes apply, and programs offered pay for the upkeep. When you get down to the third and fourth generations, as we are now, people of Greek ancestry are less interested in learning Greek language and dance. Other Orthodox jurisdictions in North America are growing, and the Greeks seem to be the exception. Start reaching out to converts and non-Greek Orthodox, who cares if they old yiayias don’t like English coming into the Liturgy.

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2019, 07:02:16 PM »
Your not listening.  No mismanagement.  Greeks like other ethnic groups tend to move to the suburbs when they are financially stable.  What happens is they build new churches where they live. So the churches left behind do fall into dismay because the funding isn't there any longer.

Greeks have long since relocated to the suburbs, like other Orthodox and Catholicos “ethnic” communities that have moved up the socioeconomic ladder in North America. Yet, most of those parishes aren’t closing. The problem with GOARCH is a lengthy and well-documented (use the search function on this forum) record of financial mismanagement, complemented by the tendency of Greeks to build gigantic and expensive churches that they cannot afford to maintain in the long run, relying on ethnic festivals, dance and language classes, and donations to pay the mortgage and property taxes. Again, they need to drop the ethnophyletism and “Hellenism” and start acting like a church, not an ethnic social club.
Hog wash. Churches are a non for profit and don't pay taxes.  The largest expense is heating,  upkeep of property and the priests salary. Unlike RC who have benefited from an influx of south Americans to continue funding these parishes.  Orthodoxy doesn't have that luxury.  So as communities move out there isn't viable candidates to fill them.
 BTW: RC's are experiencing closure at an alarming rate.  Due to the laws sues being settled via the sale of prime real estate.

Several Greek parishes in my area have mixed-use zoning because there are community centres physically attached to them, meaning municipal taxes apply, and programs offered pay for the upkeep. When you get down to the third and fourth generations, as we are now, people of Greek ancestry are less interested in learning Greek language and dance. Other Orthodox jurisdictions in North America are growing, and the Greeks seem to be the exception. Start reaching out to converts and non-Greek Orthodox, who cares if they old yiayias don’t like English coming into the Liturgy.
I don't know about how other churches are run. All I can say is the church is a separate entity from schools and other organized events.  Sure the annual proceeds from the festival filters into the churchs confers.  Thats a given.
But most, if not all organizations within church property stand on there own.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2019, 08:39:13 PM »
The fastest growing religion in the US lol. That’s what AFR was saying a decade ago.
"I saw a miracle where 2 people entered church one by baptism and one by chrismation. On pictures the one received by full baptism was shinning in light the one by chrismation no."

Offline hecma925

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2019, 10:16:36 PM »
The fastest growing religion in the US lol. That’s what AFR was saying a decade ago.

I always found it suspect.  How can America's best kept secret also be the fastest growing faith?
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Offline ttcmacro

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2019, 11:51:02 PM »
Luckily we have our friends at Pulpit and Pen to set us straight on this:

https://pulpitandpen.org/2019/09/10/idolaters-flock-to-worship-a-crying-virgin-mary-in-chicago/

Their over the top commentary is always amusing.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2019, 01:15:50 AM »
Luckily we have our friends at Pulpit and Pen to set us straight on this:

https://pulpitandpen.org/2019/09/10/idolaters-flock-to-worship-a-crying-virgin-mary-in-chicago/

Their over the top commentary is always amusing.

To confess Protestantism is to reject Christ.

Offline augustin717

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2019, 01:32:12 AM »
The fastest growing religion in the US lol. That’s what AFR was saying a decade ago.

I always found it suspect.  How can America's best kept secret also be the fastest growing faith?
it’s apophatic. Mystery solved.
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2019, 02:04:53 AM »
Your not listening.  No mismanagement.  Greeks like other ethnic groups tend to move to the suburbs when they are financially stable.  What happens is they build new churches where they live. So the churches left behind do fall into dismay because the funding isn't there any longer.

Actually it is a documented fact that GoArch membership is declining (fast) and the Archdiocese has become extremely financially unstable, bordering on bankruptcy.  Of course if they are like other churches the parishes should in many cases be financially independent, but the since according to Pew Research Group, GoArch is the fastest-shrinking Orthodox church, and I believe it also has the worst Sunday attendance (however, ACROD, which is also EP, has the best), and this is hitting the parishes hard.  The only really financially strong part of GoArch is the monastery system run by Elder Ephraim of Athos and Arizona.

It should be noted these problems appear confined to GoArch and are not afflicting ACROD or UOCNA, nor to my knowledge is the Greek Orthodox Church in general in trouble; although I would note the healthiest Greek church is probably the Church of Alexandria.  But as far as I am aware, the Greek Orthodox churches under the Ecumenical Patriarchate in Britain and Australia are making out alright.  So this post should not be interpreted as criticizing the Church of Constantinople at all; the problem here is GoArch, and the excellent performance of ACROD and even within GoArch the excellent liturgical performance, financial stability and breathtaking growth of the monasteries affiliated with Elder Ephraim the disciple of St. Joseph the Hesychast in Florence, AZ, show that the problem is confined to poor diocesan management on the part of some GoArch bishops, who at times seem to care more anout Hellenic culture than Orthodoxy, and who have allowed the Greek church in too many places to be hostile to converts and even other Orthodox. 

This was kind of satirized by the film My Big Fat Greek Wedding, which depicts the Greek Church as something only Greeks and a man who wants to marry a Grecian woman would be a part of; the film makes a mockery of baptism, by showing the fiance being baptized in a children’s inflatable swimming pool in front of the altar, and then depicts a Greek wedding as bizarre and incomprehensible, as the fiance’s mother tries to follow the service but gives up when her husband says “It’s Greek to me.” 

And there is tragically some truth in that biting satire, although I cannot condone it (Tom Hanks, who produced the film, joined the Greek Orthodox Church to marry a Greek woman and is a member of the splendid Cathedral on Pico St. in the Latin-Byzantine Quarter of Los Angeles (St. Demetrios, I think), which alas does a terrible job when it comes to the Divine Office and weekday liturgies. 

Las Vegas has a good Greek parish which does fill up on Sunday despite being very large, with a gracious priest and a robust schedule of services, even an annual Liturgy of St. James on his feast (October 23rd).  So there are some good GoArch parishes which are bucking the trend.

Council of Nicea:
Εθη ἀρχαῖα κρατείτω. 
Mores antiqui obtineant.
The ancient ways shall prevail.

The sentiment of Nicea in Greek and Latin, translated into English.

Offline Eamonomae

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2019, 07:54:10 AM »
Luckily we have our friends at Pulpit and Pen to set us straight on this:

https://pulpitandpen.org/2019/09/10/idolaters-flock-to-worship-a-crying-virgin-mary-in-chicago/

Their over the top commentary is always amusing.

To confess Protestantism is to reject Christ.

I don’t know if that’s 100% true. I’ve met some nice people in the LCMS, especially for those who were born and raised that way. Plus, why such arbitrariness? It seems you have implied in the past that Chalcedonians and some Roman Catholics have the Holy Spirit, so why a blanket condemnation of Protestantism as a whole?

But undeniably, there is this strand of both extreme ignorance and extreme arrogance that permeates through a large portion of so-called “Evangelical Christianity” which annoys the living hell out of me.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 07:54:55 AM by Eamonomae »
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Offline Samn!

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Offline hecma925

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2019, 01:01:50 PM »
I'm an ordained minister of the Universal Life Church.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2019, 02:26:47 PM »
There is an official statement From the office of the Chicago Metropolitan about this icon dated Sept. 10th:

https://www.reddit.com/r/OrthodoxChristianity/comments/d2hlvj/a_statement_from_the_metropolis_of_chicago_on_the/

Sorry I cannot give you the Chicagogoarch website.  I can't seem to download on my computer.

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Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Online Saxon

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2019, 08:16:33 PM »
Aren’t there plenty of wealthy Greeks in the Chicago area who could have bailed that church out?

Offline hecma925

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2019, 11:10:34 PM »
Aren’t there plenty of wealthy Greeks in the Chicago area who could have bailed that church out?

They couldn't promise to make them all Archons.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline admiralnick

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2019, 08:54:59 PM »
Aren’t there plenty of wealthy Greeks in the Chicago area who could have bailed that church out?

They couldn't promise to make them all Archons.

So true...

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Offline Tzimis

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2019, 09:55:08 PM »
Lets pray for a solution. LHM!

Offline hecma925

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2019, 08:23:14 AM »
Lets pray for a solution. LHM!

The solution has already been found.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2019, 02:08:12 PM »
We don't want ULC's stepping foot on sacred grounds.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2019, 04:09:08 PM »
We don't want ULC's stepping foot on sacred grounds.

You got 3 million to pay them off?
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2019, 04:15:49 PM »
We don't want ULC's stepping foot on sacred grounds.

You got 3 million to pay them off?
The figure is 1.6 and im sure someone will pop up.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2019, 04:19:07 PM »

...but, it is already sold.

I believe someone did donate a huge amount a few years ago... but, the funds were not allocated wisely.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline Tzimis

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2019, 04:40:49 PM »
Thats not necessarily true. Under Obama one cant be forced to vacate until 3.5 years.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2019, 05:08:19 PM »
Thats not necessarily true. Under Obama one cant be forced to vacate until 3.5 years.

This isn't a house.  And the church was way down the foreclosure and bankruptcy (2 completely different things) processes to do anything.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline hecma925

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2019, 05:09:40 PM »
We don't want ULC's stepping foot on sacred grounds.

You got 3 million to pay them off?
The figure is 1.6 and im sure someone will pop up.

ULC bought the church for 2.5 mil.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2019, 06:41:24 PM »
We don't want ULC's stepping foot on sacred grounds.

You got 3 million to pay them off?
The figure is 1.6 and im sure someone will pop up.

ULC bought the church for 2.5 mil.
Id like to see the closing documents.

Offline Ainnir

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2019, 06:44:53 PM »
I'm pretty sure those icons are painted/written directly on the walls...how is that handled?   :(
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 06:45:33 PM by Ainnir »
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no idea, so there’s that.

Offline JTLoganville

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2019, 09:11:31 PM »
I'm pretty sure those icons are painted/written directly on the walls...how is that handled?   :(

Many Icons which appear to be painted/written directly on walls, vaults, domes, and ceilings are in fact written on heavy gauge canvas which is then applied to the surface using techniques similar to installing wallpaper.

Removal is tedious and time consuming but it can--and certainly SHOULD--be done.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2019, 10:34:10 PM »
I'm pretty sure those icons are painted/written directly on the walls...how is that handled?   :(

Many Icons which appear to be painted/written directly on walls, vaults, domes, and ceilings are in fact written on heavy gauge canvas which is then applied to the surface using techniques similar to installing wallpaper.

Removal is tedious and time consuming but it can--and certainly SHOULD--be done.

Depends on the church's budget.  If you have a lot of money, like this parish once had; you're not wasting your time on canvas.
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Offline platypus

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2019, 06:48:02 PM »
Luckily we have our friends at Pulpit and Pen to set us straight on this:

https://pulpitandpen.org/2019/09/10/idolaters-flock-to-worship-a-crying-virgin-mary-in-chicago/

Their over the top commentary is always amusing.

It blows my mind the lengths they go to avoid learning the teachings of the faiths they decry. Surely, in conducting research for such an article, they must have run across an orthodox Christian or orthodox website that could tell them the basic teachings of the Church. But no, that's apparently far too much to ask.

This Sunday, they'll go worship their Jack Chick statue while singing hyms to Martin Luther and standing on one leg. I'd like them to prove me wrong without speaking to me, getting me to read their material, or having me go to their church.

"Eternal truth finds no favorable soil where one encounters at every turn the skeptical, sarcastic query 'what is truth,' where life insurance takes the place of eternal hope." -Hieromonk Antonius

Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity. -Ecclesiastes 12:8

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2019, 10:27:32 PM »
Luckily we have our friends at Pulpit and Pen to set us straight on this:

https://pulpitandpen.org/2019/09/10/idolaters-flock-to-worship-a-crying-virgin-mary-in-chicago/

Their over the top commentary is always amusing.

To confess Protestantism is to reject Christ.

Quite the contrary.
Saved by the Grace of Christ apart from works.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image.... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them...

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2019, 11:08:09 PM »
Luckily we have our friends at Pulpit and Pen to set us straight on this:

https://pulpitandpen.org/2019/09/10/idolaters-flock-to-worship-a-crying-virgin-mary-in-chicago/

Their over the top commentary is always amusing.

To confess Protestantism is to reject Christ.

Quite the contrary.

Explain.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Online Saxon

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #41 on: Yesterday at 09:38:57 AM »
Luckily we have our friends at Pulpit and Pen to set us straight on this:

https://pulpitandpen.org/2019/09/10/idolaters-flock-to-worship-a-crying-virgin-mary-in-chicago/

Their over the top commentary is always amusing.

It blows my mind the lengths they go to avoid learning the teachings of the faiths they decry. Surely, in conducting research for such an article, they must have run across an orthodox Christian or orthodox website that could tell them the basic teachings of the Church. But no, that's apparently far too much to ask.

This Sunday, they'll go worship their Jack Chick statue while singing hyms to Martin Luther and standing on one leg. I'd like them to prove me wrong without speaking to me, getting me to read their material, or having me go to their church.

Did you read the meltdown article they posted when Hank Hanegraaff converted to Orthodoxy? It’s not a website that reflects intelligent Protestantism nor is it worthy of serious consideration by anyone.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #42 on: Yesterday at 09:45:15 AM »
Luckily we have our friends at Pulpit and Pen to set us straight on this:

https://pulpitandpen.org/2019/09/10/idolaters-flock-to-worship-a-crying-virgin-mary-in-chicago/

Their over the top commentary is always amusing.

It blows my mind the lengths they go to avoid learning the teachings of the faiths they decry. Surely, in conducting research for such an article, they must have run across an orthodox Christian or orthodox website that could tell them the basic teachings of the Church. But no, that's apparently far too much to ask.

This Sunday, they'll go worship their Jack Chick statue while singing hyms to Martin Luther and standing on one leg. I'd like them to prove me wrong without speaking to me, getting me to read their material, or having me go to their church.

Did you read the meltdown article they posted when Hank Hanegraaff converted to Orthodoxy? It’s not a website that reflects intelligent Protestantism nor is it worthy of serious consideration by anyone.

If you're a Jack Chick-style Protestant, it all makes sense.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #43 on: Yesterday at 09:27:08 PM »
We don't want ULC's stepping foot on sacred grounds.

You got 3 million to pay them off?
The figure is 1.6 and im sure someone will pop up.

ULC bought the church for 2.5 mil.
ULC?
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If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Weeping Icon at Chicago church thats going to be closed
« Reply #44 on: Yesterday at 09:38:19 PM »
Your not listening.  No mismanagement.  Greeks like other ethnic groups tend to move to the suburbs when they are financially stable.  What happens is they build new churches where they live. So the churches left behind do fall into dismay because the funding isn't there any longer.

Greeks have long since relocated to the suburbs, like other Orthodox and Catholicos “ethnic” communities that have moved up the socioeconomic ladder in North America. Yet, most of those parishes aren’t closing. The problem with GOARCH is a lengthy and well-documented (use the search function on this forum) record of financial mismanagement, complemented by the tendency of Greeks to build gigantic and expensive churches that they cannot afford to maintain in the long run, relying on ethnic festivals, dance and language classes, and donations to pay the mortgage and property taxes. Again, they need to drop the ethnophyletism and “Hellenism” and start acting like a church, not an ethnic social club.
Hog wash. Churches are a non for profit and don't pay taxes.  The largest expense is heating,  upkeep of property and the priests salary. Unlike RC who have benefited from an influx of south Americans to continue funding these parishes.  Orthodoxy doesn't have that luxury.  So as communities move out there isn't viable candidates to fill them.
 BTW: RC's are experiencing closure at an alarming rate.  Due to the laws sues being settled via the sale of prime real estate.

Several Greek parishes in my area have mixed-use zoning because there are community centres physically attached to them, meaning municipal taxes apply, and programs offered pay for the upkeep. When you get down to the third and fourth generations, as we are now, people of Greek ancestry are less interested in learning Greek language and dance. Other Orthodox jurisdictions in North America are growing, and the Greeks seem to be the exception. Start reaching out to converts and non-Greek Orthodox, who cares if they old yiayias don’t like English coming into the Liturgy.
I happen to know someone who was in this Church and went to its parochial school-until he came home and told his parents he would never go again. He told me he got tired of being told he was not a Greek-American or even an American Greek, but a Greek living in America. When I knew him in High School (I wasn't Orthodox yet) he alluded to clerical and other mismanagement (in particular money). Consequently he was lost to the Church (and not just that parish).
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth