Author Topic: EO soteriology compared with OO soteriology?  (Read 876 times)

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Offline Isaiah53IsMessiah

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EO soteriology compared with OO soteriology?
« on: August 08, 2019, 03:42:03 PM »
How are they alike how are they different theologically?

Offline Father Peter

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Re: EO soteriology compared with OO soteriology?
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2019, 04:11:33 AM »
They are essentially the same, which is not surprising since the OO and EO have the same roots and share the same Fathers, and are the same One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, though divided by human experience, pride, misunderstanding, misrepresentation, fear and laziness.

The difference rather lies between EO/OO and Western Augustinian and Anselmian views of salvation.

For both EO and OO a text such as On the Incarnation describes the common understanding of salvation.
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Offline Isaiah53IsMessiah

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Re: EO soteriology compared with OO soteriology?
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2019, 12:20:42 PM »
They are essentially the same, which is not surprising since the OO and EO have the same roots and share the same Fathers, and are the same One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, though divided by human experience, pride, misunderstanding, misrepresentation, fear and laziness.

The difference rather lies between EO/OO and Western Augustinian and Anselmian views of salvation.

For both EO and OO a text such as On the Incarnation describes the common understanding of salvation.

St. Gregory Palamas did not influence your tradition, no? St. John of Damascus speaks of the Divine Energies as well, as do the Cappadocian Fathers. Do OOs believe in Essence-Energy distinction?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 12:24:37 PM by Isaiah53IsMessiah »

Offline Father Peter

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Re: EO soteriology compared with OO soteriology?
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2019, 04:11:58 PM »
The Essence/Energies distinction existed from the beginning. It was not created by Palamas or the Damascene. Certainly it has always been part of our faith.

There is something I wrote on it here...

http://www.stgeorgeministry.com/essence-and-energies/
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Offline Isaiah53IsMessiah

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Re: EO soteriology compared with OO soteriology?
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2019, 06:31:24 PM »
The Essence/Energies distinction existed from the beginning. It was not created by Palamas or the Damascene.


I never said it didn't exist from the beginning.

Offline Father Peter

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Re: EO soteriology compared with OO soteriology?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2019, 03:03:05 PM »
Yes, we certainly accept this distinction
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Offline isxodnik

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Re: EO soteriology compared with OO soteriology?
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2019, 12:59:00 AM »
The idea of deification as the content and the ultimate goal of life in Christ is explicitly present already in the creations of such well-known Christian authors of the II–V centuries, as SVMC. Irenaeus of Lyons, Holy. Athanasius of Alexandria, Holy. Gregory the Theologian, Holy. Gregory of Nyssa, pseudo-Dionysius Areopagite, etc.

Despite this, the idea of deification was not assimilated by the tradition of the non-chalcedonites, and this distinction between the supporters and opponents of Chalcedon in understanding the essence of spiritual life and salvation in Christ can serve as a good illustration of how the consequences of dogmatic differences are manifested at the soteriological level.

Nachalnitsy the most influential theologian of the twentieth century, Professor V. C. Samuel, a committed follower and interpreter of the teachings of Severus of Antioch, notes that the reasons for the rejection non-chalcedonites the concept of deification are in it is in the area of Christology.


Saint Ignatius Bryanchaninov on the consequences of dogmatic distortions. Here he talks about Catholics:
[m.t.]
In one of his many letters, he directly links the evasion of Catholic devotees from the one before for the whole Church the spiritual path with the falling away of the Western Church from the fullness of Orthodoxy: "Another direction was the ascetics of the Western Church and its writers on asceticism since the separation of this Church from the East and falling away of her in the deadly darkness of heresy. Venedikt, the Holy Pope Gregory dvoeslov still agree with the ascetic mentors of the East; but already Bernard differs from them in a sharp line; the later evaded even more. They immediately entail and involve its readers to heights inaccessible to novokachalinsk, logged and recorded. Hot, often frenzied reverie replaces them all spiritual, of which they have no idea. This reverie recognize them grace. "From the fruit you shall know them," said the Savior. It is known to all what crimes, what streams of blood, what behavior, resolutely anti-Christian, Western fanatics expressed their ugly way of thinking, their ugly feeling of the heart. – The Holy Fathers of the Eastern Church lead their reader not into the arms of love, not to the heights of visions, – lead him to the consideration of his sin, his fall, to the confession of the Redeemer, to cry for himself before the mercy of the Creator"

Saint John of Kronstadt:
There are many separate Christian faiths, with different external and internal arrangements, with different opinions and teachings, often contrary to the divine truth of the gospel and the teachings of the Holy apostles, the Universal and local Councils and the Holy fathers. It is impossible to consider them all for the true and salutary: the indifference to the faith or confession of any faith in the same saving leads to unbelief or cooling in the faith, for negligence on the enforcement of the rules and attitudes of faith, to the cooling of Christians to each other.

though divided by human experience, pride, misunderstanding, misrepresentation, fear and laziness,
which led people into heresy.
kill commie for mommy

Offline Father Peter

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Re: EO soteriology compared with OO soteriology?
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2019, 03:40:37 AM »
You are on the edge of polemics so please do not continue to post in this way.

You are not engaging with Oriental Orthodox but are telling them what they believe. This is polemics.

Theosis is a necessary aspect of OO spirituality and theology. Presenting the words of a few EO figures who had no experience or knowledge of OO thought is not engaging in a conversation here. It is telling people that you think you know better than them what they believe.

I will delete further posts in the same vein. You are free to actually engage with forum members here, who will teach you what is actually believe in the OO.

Theosis is a necessary and foundational aspect of OO thought. It remains, as it has always been, the basis and purpose of the Christian life.
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Offline Father Peter

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Re: EO soteriology compared with OO soteriology?
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2019, 04:36:32 AM »
This passage from St Cyril of Alexandria represents the authentic OO commitment to Theosis, whatever folk may call it.

St Cyril

It was not otherwise possible for man, being of a nature which perishes, to escape death, unless he recovered that ancient grace, and partook once more of God who holds all things together in being and preserves them in life through the Son in the Spirit. Therefore his Only-Begotten Word has become a partaker of flesh and blood (Heb. 2: 14), that is, he has become man, though being Life by nature, and begotten of the Life that is by nature, that is, of God the Father, so that, having united himself with the flesh which perishes according to the law of its own nature…he might restore it to his own life and render it through himself a partaker of God the Father…And he wears our nature, refashioning it to his own life. And he himself is also in us, for we have all become partakers of him, and have him in ourselves through the Spirit. For this reason we have become 'partakers of the divine nature' (2 Pet. 1: 4), and are reckoned as sons, and so too have in ourselves the Father himself through the Son.

(In Jo. 14: 20; Pusey, ii. 485-6)
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Offline Father Peter

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Re: EO soteriology compared with OO soteriology?
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2019, 07:29:50 AM »
EO are not permitted to post here on the OO board that OO are heretics.

It is a shame that you are not interested in asking OO what they believe. If you wished to do so then your posts would be permitted.
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