Author Topic: Help Finding the Best Polemic Works Against Roman Catholic Papal Primacy  (Read 1690 times)

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Offline freedominspring

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I am in the process on doing a lot of theological/historical research.  Part of this is gaining an honest, thorough perspective on how the issue of Papal Primacy is viewed from the Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant perspectives.

This question is not an invitation for a debate on this thread,

but what I'm simply asking for is for people to give me a list of books (Preferably from the Eastern Orthodox perspective) that largely or entirely concern the Roman Catholic claims on the Papacy and try to refute the Papacy.  These books can concern either history or scripture or both. 

The older, longer, and more in depth and thought out the polemic work is, the better. 
I was already given this list of books in a previous thread (without asking for it) but I am looking to expand my library and I know there are more books out there that look at different angles of this issue.

Quote
Papalism, by Denny
The Papacy, by Guettee
Against False Union, by Dr. Alexander Kalomiros
The History of the Council of Florence, by Ivan N. Ostroumov
Papal Infallibility and Supremacy Tried by Ecclesiastical History, Scripture and Reason, by Gayer
Origins of Papal Infallibility, 1150-1350: A Study on the Concepts of Infallibility, Sovereignty and Tradition in the Middle Ages (Studies in the History of Christian Thought), By Tierney;
Popes and Patriarchs: An Orthodox Perspective on Roman Catholic Claims, By Whelton;
Two Paths, By Whelton;
A Man Is His Faith. by Ivan Kireyevsky;
The Great Divide, by Father Ambrose Young;
Orthodox Faith and Life in Christ, by Saint Justin Popovich;

Thank you!
in charity,
-freedominspring

Offline Rohzek

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The Christian East and the Rise of the Papacy: The Church 1071 - 1453 AD by Aristeides Papadakis. More or less a history book that does spend a lot of time on the papacy. I wouldn't call it polemic though.

The Primacy of Peter: Essays in Ecclesiology and the Early Church by John Meyendorff (editor). This book is a little more direct, but also more speculative as I understand it.

Maybe also: Meyendorff, John. Imperial Unity and Christian Division: The Church, 450-680 A.D. Crestwood, NY: St. Valdimir's Seminary Press, 1992. But it is more or less a standard history of the whole Church, East and West, but from an Orthodox perspective.
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Offline AlioshaKaramazov

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Roman Catholic opposition to Papal Infallibility
by W. J. Sparrow-Simpson (found here: https://archive.org/details/a608931100sparuoft)

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I don't know if this book will suit your purposes, but I found Fr Francis Dvornik's Byzantium and the Roman Primacy helpful. 
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Offline Asteriktos

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Most of the books specifically about the topic that came to mind have already been listed. I'd add: You Are Peter: An Orthodox Reflection on the Exercise of Papal Primacy, by Olivier Clement. This isn't an in-depth study, but is a shorter, non-polemical Orthodox response to the Catholic doctrines.

Also fwiw Man and the God-Man might be a better (and fwiw also slightly cheaper) place to start with St. Justin Popovich. That volume has many of the same writings as the one you mentioned, though (imo anyway) was a smoother read; I'm not sure if everyone would agree, but St. Justin uses a lot of repetition at times, so it's not a non-factor.


And here's a list of primary texts and histories you could check out. These tend to be of a more general ecclesiological nature, or about history in general, but for my money that's where you'll get the most helpful insights, adding meat to the 'skeleton' you'll get in more polemical or apologetic works...

St. Clement of Rome - First Epistle to the Corinthians
St. Ignatius of Antioch - Seven Epistles (newadvent)
St. Irenaeus of Lyon - Against Heresies, 3.1-5 and 4.26 and 4.33
St. Cyprian of Carthage - Treatise One: On the Unity of the Church
Hippolytus of Rome - The Apostolic Tradition
Church historians, including Eusebius of Caesarea, and Hermias Sozomen or Socrates Scholasticus
St. Gregory the Theologian - Oration 2
St. Ambrose of Milan - Letter 21, Letter 63, and On the Duties of the Clergy
St. John Chrysostom - On the Priesthood
St. Gregory the Great - Book of Pastoral Rule


Two volumes of history in general by Protestants (Pelikan was a Lutheran at the time he wrote the books, and later converted to Orthodoxy; Chadwick was an Anglican):

Jaroslav Pelikan - The Christian Tradition: A History of the Development of Doctrine (in 5 volumes); volumes 2 and especially 4 are probably the most relevant to papal supremacy
Henry Chadwick - East and West: The Making of a Rift in the Church: From Apostolic Times until the Council of Florence


If it's relevant, more general Church histories from modern Orthodox perspectives:

Fr. John Mcguckin - The Orthodox Church: An Introduction to its History, Doctrine, and Spiritual Culture
Met. Kallistos Ware - The Orthodox Church
Fr. Thomas Hopko - Bible and Church History: An Elementary Handbook of the Orthodox Church
Fr. Alexander Schmemann - The Historical Road of Eastern Orthodoxy


EDIT-- Also fwiw, I don't think both sides are right--I am firmly in the Orthodox rather than Catholic camp--but I can see why both sides feel that they are right, as there seems to be enough 'bread crumbs' to find your way back to the 2nd century at least, leaning in either direction, and finding sometimes things favoring roman--or other--primacy, and then other things leaning towards the supremacy of conciliarity (or autonomy from being controlled by other bishops)
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 03:18:21 PM by Asteriktos »
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Offline Sharbel

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Not from the Orthodox perspective, yet an honest historical presentation of the Church in the first millennium:

"Rome and the Eastern Churches: A Study in Schism", Fr. Aidan Nichols, O.P.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 08:25:42 AM by Sharbel »
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Offline Diego

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From the Anglican perspective you should read the Apology of the Church of England by John Jewel, and Ecclesiastical Polity by Richard Hooker. From the Lutheran perspective, a quick review of the Book of Concord would be handy. Please note I am NOT attempting to convert anyone, but merely providing sources. In the Book of Concord,  specifically, the document "Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pope" (Martin Luther, 1537) is directly on point for your topic, but most of the 10 documents making up the entire text would be wise to review, as they all have things to say on the matter.

Please note that there are TWO rescensions of the Book of Concord, as it was done in both German and Latin. One can get copies that were translated from the Latin to the English, or from the German to the English. I have both, although the FORMER is today much easier to obtain than the latter. If all you want is a brief read, either will do, but if you are truly getting into the nitty-gritty of things, they do each read a bit differently from each other for obvious reasons.

Offline gavaisky

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Church, Papacy and Schism by Philip Sherrard
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Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: Help Finding the Best Polemic Works Against Roman Catholic Papal Primacy
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2017, 05:14:57 PM »
Although this is an older thread, I recommend Michael Whelton's "Two Paths: Papal Monarchy - Collegial Tradition."
It is a very succinct book; it is short, easy to read, but filled with detail.
In this book, a former Roman Catholic who investigated Orthodoxy after Vatican II (while clarifying that it wasn't simply liturgy which caused him to convert - in fact, he states he was very uncomfortable at first with the Byzantine Liturgy, and he was reluctant to accept Orthodoxy), Michael Whelton, points out anachronisms between Roman Catholic ecclesiology and Christian history, while also discussing other matters - like how the Church Fathers viewed the Apostle Peter, or the inconsistencies with both Vatican I and Vatican II in light of post-schism Roman history. However, the big chunk of the book is the walk through the history of the Seven Councils.

For example, he points out the fact that Pope Celestine condemned Nestorius, but the Third Ecumenical Council treated him as the legitimate Bishop of Constantinople, even though he was condemned three months before (his point is that if the Pope's decisions were absolutely final, it makes no sense that a Council after several months, which by that time the decision of the Pope would've reached Constantinople would re-evaluate the Pope's decisions), and - more significantly - the 5th and 6th Ecumenical Councils and how Popes (Vigilius and Honorius) were condemned in both.

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« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 05:23:36 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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Offline Diego

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I would note that the Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pope was written by Philip Melanchthon, not Luther.

Offline reclusivus

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I would note that the Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pope was written by Philip Melanchthon, not Luther.

Thanks for letting me find this thread at least haha
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Sorry but the Universal Church would invoke its Councils with the Bishop of Rome.

Offline WPM

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I am in the process on doing a lot of theological/historical research.  Part of this is gaining an honest, thorough perspective on how the issue of Papal Primacy is viewed from the Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant perspectives.

This question is not an invitation for a debate on this thread,

but what I'm simply asking for is for people to give me a list of books (Preferably from the Eastern Orthodox perspective) that largely or entirely concern the Roman Catholic claims on the Papacy and try to refute the Papacy.  These books can concern either history or scripture or both. 

The older, longer, and more in depth and thought out the polemic work is, the better. 
I was already given this list of books in a previous thread (without asking for it) but I am looking to expand my library and I know there are more books out there that look at different angles of this issue.

Quote
Papalism, by Denny
The Papacy, by Guettee
Against False Union, by Dr. Alexander Kalomiros
The History of the Council of Florence, by Ivan N. Ostroumov
Papal Infallibility and Supremacy Tried by Ecclesiastical History, Scripture and Reason, by Gayer
Origins of Papal Infallibility, 1150-1350: A Study on the Concepts of Infallibility, Sovereignty and Tradition in the Middle Ages (Studies in the History of Christian Thought), By Tierney;
Popes and Patriarchs: An Orthodox Perspective on Roman Catholic Claims, By Whelton;
Two Paths, By Whelton;
A Man Is His Faith. by Ivan Kireyevsky;
The Great Divide, by Father Ambrose Young;
Orthodox Faith and Life in Christ, by Saint Justin Popovich;

Thank you!
in charity,
-freedominspring

Take the time to read about and assimilate Vatican I and II then you'll understand the Papacy.