Author Topic: Tomos for the Church of Greece  (Read 844 times)

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Offline ICXCNIKA

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Tomos for the Church of Greece
« on: June 20, 2019, 02:00:28 PM »
Does anyone have a copy of the tomos? Preferably in English or modern Greek. Thanks.
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Offline Samn!

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Offline ICXCNIKA

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Re: Tomos for the Church of Greece
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2019, 11:29:30 AM »
Thank you. Does anything seem out of the ordinary? IIRC the EP once said that the Archbishop of Athens is not the primate just the president of the synod. Which I found confusing since they should be one and the same. It seemed to imply that the primate was none other than the EP.

Unfortunately, I didn't find any clarification in the tomos.
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Offline Samn!

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Re: Tomos for the Church of Greece
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2019, 01:44:56 PM »
It's worth remembering that the idea that a local church is constituted first of all by its primate is very new. In all the older tomoi, autocephaly is granted to the synod, who is viewed as the highest authority, with the president of the synod and primate being two words for the same thing. It's only with the post-Zizioulas idea that "the principle of unity is always a person" that primates start getting treated as something really separate and above their synods.


In terms of unusual things about the Greek tomos, first of all there's the list of hierarchs who signed it. But the kicker is "Moreover, in in ecclesiastical matters that may occur, which require joint examination and joint action for the stronger economy and support of the Orthodox Church, it has resolved that the Holy Synod in Greece refer to the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Holy Synod Around him. The Ecumenical Patriarch with the Holy and Sacred Synod around him will readily provide his assistance, communicating the things that are necessary to the Holy Synod of the Church of Greece." This kind of thing isn't found in any of the other tomoi until Czechoslovakia and Ukraine.

Offline ICXCNIKA

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Re: Tomos for the Church of Greece
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2019, 01:54:02 PM »
It's worth remembering that the idea that a local church is constituted first of all by its primate is very new. In all the older tomoi, autocephaly is granted to the synod, who is viewed as the highest authority, with the president of the synod and primate being two words for the same thing. It's only with the post-Zizioulas idea that "the principle of unity is always a person" that primates start getting treated as something really separate and above their synods.


In terms of unusual things about the Greek tomos, first of all there's the list of hierarchs who signed it. But the kicker is "Moreover, in in ecclesiastical matters that may occur, which require joint examination and joint action for the stronger economy and support of the Orthodox Church, it has resolved that the Holy Synod in Greece refer to the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Holy Synod Around him. The Ecumenical Patriarch with the Holy and Sacred Synod around him will readily provide his assistance, communicating the things that are necessary to the Holy Synod of the Church of Greece." This kind of thing isn't found in any of the other tomoi until Czechoslovakia and Ukraine.

Thank you for the awesome and informative response.
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Tomos for the Church of Greece
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2019, 10:31:42 PM »
It's worth remembering that the idea that a local church is constituted first of all by its primate is very new. In all the older tomoi, autocephaly is granted to the synod, who is viewed as the highest authority, with the president of the synod and primate being two words for the same thing. It's only with the post-Zizioulas idea that "the principle of unity is always a person" that primates start getting treated as something really separate and above their synods.


In terms of unusual things about the Greek tomos, first of all there's the list of hierarchs who signed it. But the kicker is "Moreover, in in ecclesiastical matters that may occur, which require joint examination and joint action for the stronger economy and support of the Orthodox Church, it has resolved that the Holy Synod in Greece refer to the Ecumenical Patriarch and the Holy Synod Around him. The Ecumenical Patriarch with the Holy and Sacred Synod around him will readily provide his assistance, communicating the things that are necessary to the Holy Synod of the Church of Greece." This kind of thing isn't found in any of the other tomoi until Czechoslovakia and Ukraine.
Not totally a Zizoulas creation-the Pope of Alexandria was long ago so taken (but then, for the first century he was the only full bishop in the entire country). It is interesting that when Antioch gave autocephaly to Georgia in the fifth century, it consecrated 12 bishops for the country.
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Offline Menas17

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Re: Tomos for the Church of Greece
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2019, 11:35:22 AM »
What are the odds that the Patriarchate of Constantinople will try and revoke the Tomos of the Church of Greece and reunite the two?


It makes sense given that within it's canonical territory, the PoC has way more member in Greece than in Turkey. But, I could be way off the mark on this?

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Tomos for the Church of Greece
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2019, 11:39:46 AM »
The EP would need to have a friendly government in Greece willing to enforce this revocation. As things are, such an attempt is more likely to humiliate them.
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Offline Samn!

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Re: Tomos for the Church of Greece
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2019, 12:27:40 PM »
What are the odds that the Patriarchate of Constantinople will try and revoke the Tomos of the Church of Greece and reunite the two?

Pretty close to zero. The Patriarchate of Constantinople has evolved in such a way that having actual faithful to pastor not safely an ocean away would crimp its style.