Author Topic: Abortion of Disabled Children  (Read 439 times)

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Offline Jackson02

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Abortion of Disabled Children
« on: May 15, 2019, 09:51:07 PM »
I'm asking this in light of the Alabama abortion bill. There's a difference between living and existing. Would it not be more merciful to abort a child who will never understand or have a true happy life? Obviously the word "disabled" is a loaded word with many interpretations and definitions, but I'm mainly referring to babies diagnosed with severe mental disorders.


Thank you all in advance.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 09:51:28 PM by Jackson02 »

Offline Ainnir

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2019, 09:53:01 PM »
I think you need to give specific examples of what would constitute a "severe mental disorder" in an unborn baby and how exactly that is diagnosed.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no idea, so there’s that.

Offline Jackson02

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2019, 10:02:52 PM »
While I'm sure there's hundreds, lets stick to those diagnosed with severe autism or infected with the zika virus.

Online Svartzorn

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2019, 10:28:22 PM »
Would it not be more merciful to abort a child who will never understand or have a true happy life?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgpa7wEAz7I

(...)but I'm mainly referring to babies diagnosed with severe mental disorders.

Like leftism?

Offline biro

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2019, 10:31:34 PM »
The kinds of disabilities they're talking about are babies born with no lungs, no brain, and no skull.

You don't believe that's real, and in any event, you believe the woman should be forced to give birth anyway.
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Online Svartzorn

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2019, 10:41:57 PM »
The kinds of disabilities they're talking about are babies born with no lungs, no brain, and no skull.

You don't believe that's real, and in any event, you believe the woman should be forced to give birth anyway.

Biro gets severely hurt in a car crash. Goes into a coma.
I pull the plug. He dies. It's not murder.
It's totally ok because he can't sustain his life on his own.
He lacks a [insert organ], so it's totally ok. I mean it, you guys.


Offline WPM

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2019, 10:51:18 PM »
So birth defects is lack of D.N.A or complete human characteristics? . . .
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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2019, 11:00:07 PM »
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline FinnJames

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2019, 12:55:29 AM »
No one's live is happy all the time. Even disabled children (who grow into disabled adults) their parents and siblings have periods of happiness and periods of unhappiness. Society can help by making it possible for families with a disabled member to look after their loved one and themselves without too much stress (financial, time, physical, mental).

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2019, 07:35:12 AM »
I'm asking this in light of the Alabama abortion bill. There's a difference between living and existing. Would it not be more merciful to abort a child who will never understand or have a true happy life? Obviously the word "disabled" is a loaded word with many interpretations and definitions, but I'm mainly referring to babies diagnosed with severe mental disorders.
Who on earth are you or anyone else to decide if anyone's life is worth it for them?
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Offline Ainnir

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2019, 09:13:13 AM »
Regardless of what is decided in the secular realm and regardless of impossible situations some women find themselves in, I think as Christians we really, really should not attempt to downplay the fact that it is a loss of life.  Whether it's an abortion, a miscarriage, an ectopic pregnancy, known or unknown, voluntary or involuntary, the most helpless and voiceless of lives is lost.  Most of us feel that, though some want to attribute it to hormones.  In cases like ectopic pregnancies, yes, something has to be done.  I don't think we've advanced enough that actual relocation of the embryo safely, so it is terminated (as far as I know; someone with more medical knowledge can correct me).  But the fact that it was a dire situation did not make the measure ok, it just made it necessary.  I think America struggles with that juxtaposition, and many completely sincere practicing Christians get caught between the two, thinking it's either A or B.

However, Jackson, I question the medical field's ability to accurately diagnose either of those conditions in the womb, so I really couldn't agree that terminating those pregnancies "just in case" would be an act of mercy.  Even if they were 100% sure, I wouldn't personally class either case as dire enough to make such an action necessary.  But as FinnJames said, access to good support is definitely needed.  This is where I'd like to see the energy go, personally.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no idea, so there’s that.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2019, 10:34:40 AM »

It is not uncommon for women to suffer miscarriages.  These are often due to some imperfection in the forming embryo... and it is done without human intervention... and the mother weeps for the child she will never meet.  Perhaps this is the Lord's way of sparing both her and the child future suffering.

It is documented and you can easily find examples on social media, of disabled people, with missing limbs, who still are enjoying their lives.

Often times these deformities occur due to the conditions of our world, the pollution, chemicals ingested, etc. and not due to the Will of God.  He has a purpose for that little person to fulfill in life, for He knew them before they formed.

This is difficult, as we don't wish anyone to suffer... but, if they live, they live, and ought to live... until they can no longer sustain life without artificial means, and there's no hope that they will at some future point.

 
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Offline Rohzek

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2019, 12:19:48 PM »
Unless the child would be born brain dead, it seems awfully self-righteous to take such an action under such presumptions.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2019, 01:12:40 PM »
Unless the child would be born brain dead, it seems awfully self-righteous to take such an action under such presumptions.
Or never born (such as ectopic pregnancies).
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Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2019, 03:34:52 PM »
I guess we can throw handicap or disabled into the gas chamber too,  since "it will be merciful" I'm sorry so because someone retarded,  a child of rape,  missing half a skull,  etc.  We Ned to abort them?  What compassionate about denying the least of these lives?

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2019, 03:36:57 PM »
The kinds of disabilities they're talking about are babies born with no lungs, no brain, and no skull.

You don't believe that's real, and in any event, you believe the woman should be forced to give birth anyway.

I'm sure we shoild never care or love for the least of these? Because no lungs,  let's just kill them.

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2019, 03:48:46 PM »
I guess we can throw handicap or disabled into the gas chamber too,  since "it will be merciful" I'm sorry so because someone retarded,  a child of rape,  missing half a skull,  etc.  We need to abort them?  What is compassionate about denying the least of these lives?

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2019, 03:49:47 PM »
Darn double post

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2019, 04:14:46 PM »

It is not uncommon for women to suffer miscarriages.  These are often due to some imperfection in the forming embryo... and it is done without human intervention... and the mother weeps for the child she will never meet.  Perhaps this is the Lord's way of sparing both her and the child future suffering.

It is documented and you can easily find examples on social media, of disabled people, with missing limbs, who still are enjoying their lives.

Often times these deformities occur due to the conditions of our world, the pollution, chemicals ingested, etc. and not due to the Will of God.  He has a purpose for that little person to fulfill in life, for He knew them before they formed.

This is difficult, as we don't wish anyone to suffer... but, if they live, they live, and ought to live... until they can no longer sustain life without artificial means, and there's no hope that they will at some future point.

I agree entirely.  This is a beautiful post. :)

No one's live is happy all the time. Even disabled children (who grow into disabled adults) their parents and siblings have periods of happiness and periods of unhappiness. Society can help by making it possible for families with a disabled member to look after their loved one and themselves without too much stress (financial, time, physical, mental).

This is also a very valid point.  And in predominantly Orthodox countries, this might be something the Church could efficiently manage directly.  I am a big fan of ecclesiastical humanitarian support in the tradition of St. Basil the Great.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2019, 04:15:00 PM by Alpha60 »

Offline Rubricnigel

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2019, 05:49:45 PM »
I'm asking this in light of the Alabama abortion bill. There's a difference between living and existing. Would it not be more merciful to abort a child who will never understand or have a true happy life? Obviously the word "disabled" is a loaded word with many interpretations and definitions, but I'm mainly referring to babies diagnosed with severe mental disorders.


Thank you all in advance.

Starting up eugenics again.
Not smart, how did that work last time?
Also, many cases of parents being told their child would have porblems, but either they were wrong or it wasnt nearly as bad as was originally told. You want to damn parents over a maybe?

Whats next, killing the elderly? What about rounding up autistic kids?

Its evil and sinful

Offline Rubricnigel

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Re: Abortion of Disabled Children
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2019, 05:51:46 PM »
No one's live is happy all the time. Even disabled children (who grow into disabled adults) their parents and siblings have periods of happiness and periods of unhappiness. Society can help by making it possible for families with a disabled member to look after their loved one and themselves without too much stress (financial, time, physical, mental).

+1

We spend  $700 Billion a year on offense, and print our own money.
Surely we could create jobs, and help the poor, sick as well.