Author Topic: Do any Orthodox pray some form of Rosary or have found it helpful spiritually?  (Read 13675 times)

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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Policing?  I am not going to knock on people's doors and take away their rosaries.  We have "free" will.  People can choose to pray how, when and to whom they wish.

However, as an Orthodox Christian, I prefer to use the tools in the Orthodox toolbox.





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Offline Eamonomae

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Papist never said or even came close to suggesting that "the East and the West are two ontological entities that have no relation nor impact on each other." So I'm not sure why you would demand that he come to the defense of an assertion that he didn't make.

Isn't that implicit in the response of "The East has its own traditions;" By asserting that the East has its own traditions that should be separate from the West, that implies that the West should not impact the East, which can be interpreted in a multiple number of ways, which all are problematic as I've pointed out, given the fact that there was never a point in history where the East didn't impact the West, and the West didn't impact the East?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 01:27:08 PM by Eamonomae »

Offline Iconodule

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Policing?  I am not going to knock on people's doors and take away their rosaries.  We have "free" will.  People can choose to pray how, when and to whom they wish.

However, as an Orthodox Christian, I prefer to use the tools in the Orthodox toolbox.

Perhaps familiarizing yourself with the contents of said toolbox is in order, before lecturing others about what's in it.
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Offline Iconodule

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Papist never said or even came close to suggesting that "the East and the West are two ontological entities that have no relation nor impact on each other." So I'm not sure why you would demand that he come to the defense of an assertion that he didn't make.

Isn't that implicit in the response of "The East has its own traditions;" By asserting that the East has its own traditions that should be separate from the West, ...

There you go again...
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Offline Eamonomae

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I think you are all missing the point.

Is there anything inherently bad about the Rosary prayers?   Do they teach a heresy?  No.

However, just as the Canons once prohibited utilizing Jewish physicians.... not because we feared, hated, or mistrusted Jews.... but, out of the possibility that the patient might in fact dilute their own faith by "mixing" with others...

This same premise holds true here.

Why are you praying the Rosary, when the Jesus Prayer should suffice?

The rosary is not an equivalent of the Jesus prayer. They are not interchangeable practices. You might as well ask, "Why pray morning and evening prayers, or why go to vespers and matins, when the Jesus prayer would suffice?" There are many other practices in the Orthodox spiritual repertoire apart from the Jesus prayer. Who are you to stand in judgment of Sts Mark the Wrestler, Nicholas Cabasilas, and many others who advised that Christians should meditate on the life and death of Christ?

Are you so unfamiliar with the work of the Kyiv Academy? Perhaps you share the opinion of Fr Georges Florovsky that the Ukrainian contribution to Orthodox theology was almost uniformly inauthentic and distorted? I find his judgment quite unfair. Do you condemn Sts Dmitri of Rostov or Peter Mohyla, who, like many saints from Ukraine, found the rosary and other Western Christian practices edifying and helpful?

Quote
What is it that you find so alluring and so satisfying in the Rosary?

You won't go to Hell for praying it, but, why are you?  Why are you utilizing something from a different Faith in leue of something from your own?

Since the rosary has been in practice by Orthodox Christians for centuries, and is full of Orthodox content, it's ridiculous to say it's "from a different faith." I don't practice the rosary myself, but I find your attempt to police those who do contradictory to your claim that...

 
I'm not stopping anyone...

Well, it also depends how you interpret the Rosary - to what extent does "meditation" equal "imagining you are there", to how you interpret the results of the Rosary - the do X receive Y mentality of Roman Catholic spirituality, which applies in some instances to the Rosary (https://www.theholyrosary.org/rosarybenefits), whether or not you use the controversial Filioque Nicene Creed.

Not using the Filioque Nicene Creed (for the purposes of not accidentally speaking heresy for those who find the Filioque controversy confusing or those who are uncertain about it), the words of the Rosary themselves are Orthodox. Asking the Virgin Mary to pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, is definitely not heterodox.

But you know what else I consider Orthodox in it's prayer? The Divine Mercy devotion. However, the way some Catholics interpret such a prayer, as self-evident from the superstitious people that "theistgal" has had to deal with, is clearly not Orthodox. Expecting to pray the Divine Mercy devotion in the hopes that you will receive a "get-out-of-jail-free" card from both Purgatory, Hell, and your own sins, just from the words you say, as if the prayers are more powerful than the Eucharist, more powerful than Baptism, more powerful than Unction, more powerful than Chrismation, more powerful than Confession, is nothing short of diabolical in my opinion.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 01:38:22 PM by Eamonomae »

Offline Eamonomae

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Quote
Isn't that implicit in the response of "The East has its own traditions;" By asserting that the East has its own traditions that should be separate from the West, that implies that the West should not impact the East, which can be interpreted in a multiple number of ways, which all are problematic as I've pointed out, given the fact that there was never a point in history where the East didn't impact the West, and the West didn't impact the East?

There, my argument still stands.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Policing?  I am not going to knock on people's doors and take away their rosaries.  We have "free" will.  People can choose to pray how, when and to whom they wish.

However, as an Orthodox Christian, I prefer to use the tools in the Orthodox toolbox.

Perhaps familiarizing yourself with the contents of said toolbox is in order, before lecturing others about what's in it.

I just checked again.  Riffled through the whole thing.  Didn't find a rosary.
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Offline Eamonomae

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Also, I should clarify - most of the Chaplet of Divine Mercy is Orthodox, I forgot about the "Eternal Father" prayer, which isn't, as is the "Gushing Blood" prayer, which isn't. I forgot about these prayers.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 02:10:46 PM by Eamonomae »

Offline Iconodule

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Well, it also depends how you interpret the Rosary - to what extent does "meditation" equal "imagining you are there"

This happens all the time in the Byzantine hymnography, e.g.

"Come, O faithful! Let us go to see where Christ is born. We shall follow the wise men, kings from the East, and be led by the guiding star to the place where angels sing unceasing praise..."

"Let us purify our senses and we shall see Christ shining in the unapproachable light of His resurrection. We shall clearly hear Him say: Rejoice, as we sing the song of victory."

"Come, let us go to the mountain of the Lord, to the habitation of our God, and let us gaze upon the glory of His Transfiguration.."
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Offline Eamonomae

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Well, it also depends how you interpret the Rosary - to what extent does "meditation" equal "imagining you are there"

This happens all the time in the Byzantine hymnography, e.g.

"Come, O faithful! Let us go to see where Christ is born. We shall follow the wise men, kings from the East, and be led by the guiding star to the place where angels sing unceasing praise..."

"Let us purify our senses and we shall see Christ shining in the unapproachable light of His resurrection. We shall clearly hear Him say: Rejoice, as we sing the song of victory."

"Come, let us go to the mountain of the Lord, to the habitation of our God, and let us gaze upon the glory of His Transfiguration.."

Cool. For me personally though, since I've began praying more seriously, I never try to explicitly recreate anything outside the texts I read, and very rarely use my imagination. But that's me.

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« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 10:24:59 PM by Ainnir »
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no idea, so there’s that.

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Offline isxodnik

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"Let us purify our senses..."
Pay attention.
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- Да, сказали "сюда иди".
- Ну, "иди сюда" - это не угроза.
- "Иди сюда" - нет, а "сюда иди" - очень даже.

Offline WPM

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I like Jesus Prayer and Knotted rope.
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Offline Xavier

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I like this excerpt from that link shared by Eamon. It presents clear evidence even historically that some form of the Rosary is part of universal Tradition and was prayed and recommended to all Christians by Orthodox St. Seraphim of Sarov, and miracles followed the Rule's observance: "Rule of the Mother of God - St. Seraphim of Sarov

St Seraphim of Sarov
Eastern Practitioner of the 'Rule of the Theotokos'
the Eastern Rosary

The evidence for the first two revelations of the Rosary (fourth century and then the eighth century) derive from an Eastern Orthodox priest Father Zosima who is the spiritual son of the great Saint Seraphim of Sarov who said:

…I forgot to give you a piece of advice vital for salvation. Say the O Hail, Mother of God and Virgin one hundred and fifty times, and this prayer will lead you on the way to salvation. This rule was given by the Mother of God herself in about the eighth century, and at one time all Christians fulfilled it.

We Orthodox have forgotten about it, and Saint Seraphim has reminded me of this Rule. In my hands I have a hand-written book from the cell of Saint Seraphim, containing a description of the many miracles which took place through praying to the Mother of God and especially through saying one hundred and fifty times the O Hail, Mother of God and Virgin.

If, being unaccustomed to it, it is difficult to master one hundred and fifty repetitions daily, say it fifty times at first. After every ten repetitions say the "Our Father" once and "Open unto us the doors of thy loving kindness."* Whomever he spoke to about this miracle-working Rule remained grateful to him." From: http://hermitbrother.blogspot.com/2013/10/rule-of-mother-of-god-st-seraphim-of.html?m=1
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 04:01:43 AM by Xavier »
"My dear Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with your most precious Blood and your sacrifice on Calvary, I hereby offer my whole life to the intention of your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Together with my life, I place at your disposal all Holy Masses, all my Holy Communions, all my good deeds, all my sacrifices ... https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Pray the Rosary every day to obtain Peace for the world"

Offline Xavier

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I believe St. Seraphim also spoke of 15 events from the life of the Lord and the Theotokos to prayerfully consider while praying or singing, as per the earlier link. Some are slightly different, but many others are the same, including Annunciation, Birth of Christ, Presentation, Descent of the Holy Spirit, the Mother of God being Crowned by the Holy Trinity in Heaven etc..

Many Orthodox have a thing about not invoking the visual imagination in prayer, although Iconodule wrote an article on that subject, or was going to, debunking it.

Here: https://josephzheng.blogspot.com/2018/11/mental-imagery-and-orthodox-spirituality.html

Nice article, Joseph, thanks. I think wonderful Orthodox prayers like "Lord Jesus Christ, have Mercy on me, a sinner", and, "Most Holy Theotokos, save us" can easily be incorporated by a Catholic, east or west, into his or her own spiritual life. I try to pray the former before Holy Communion.

I agree with the idea that the Rosary is similar to the Liturgy of the Hours. Some Saints compare the 150 Psalms to the 150 Hail Mary's of the Rosary by calling the latter as Mary's Psalter. Surely we would receive great graces if we were able to prayerfully read all 150 Psalms. St. Montfort says praying 15 decades of the Rosary every day would be even more meritorious than doing that, especially for the common faithful. The chanting of the Rosary as being somewhat similar to the way the Divine Office is chanted in monasteries.

I agree with the authorities you cited about meditation in prayer. I think it is important to avoid distraction in prayer, but distraction is something else. Those who disagree, I would ask, why did God have to come down from Heaven if it is somehow wrong to meditate on the mysteries of His Life on Earth? And His Mother's life, leading to the glorification of God and His Mother in Heaven? For us, almost every Catholic Saint says reading and meditation on the Life and especially Passion of the Lord is among the spiritual exercises most profitable for our souls. We tend to become like what we love to meditate on, say the Saints, and thus we should meditate on the Lord's Life and Passion above all, otherwise we will find it harder imho to be conformed to the image and likeness of Christ and Him Crucified, which we must do to attain theosis. Icons exist for a similar reason. Is it wrong even to meditate on an icon of the Cross while praying?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 04:35:35 AM by Xavier »
"My dear Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with your most precious Blood and your sacrifice on Calvary, I hereby offer my whole life to the intention of your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Together with my life, I place at your disposal all Holy Masses, all my Holy Communions, all my good deeds, all my sacrifices ... https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Pray the Rosary every day to obtain Peace for the world"

Offline WPM

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I believe you can pray however you want . . . There is no right wrong prayer . . . Just the tradition of the Rosary has a better guidelines.
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To ascribe to St. Seraphim the Catholic practice, it is necessary to have no fear of God at all.
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- Да, сказали "сюда иди".
- Ну, "иди сюда" - это не угроза.
- "Иди сюда" - нет, а "сюда иди" - очень даже.

Offline jah777

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St. Seraphim did not teach a version of the Rosary but according to the link below, Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsk may have.  If Bp Seraphim did, this never became an established, accepted, or well regarded practice in Orthodoxy.  If we want to enter the Kingdom and attain to that which the Orthodox saints attained, we should follow Orthodox practices and methods which they utilized and not borrow questionable practices from other religions.  Aside from this anecdote regarding Bp Seraphim, I have heard no Orthodox saint ever suggest that the Rosary is a good practice that should be utilized by those desiring salvation.

http://fatherdavidbirdosb.blogspot.com/2010/10/irenikon-rosary-of-st-seraphim-of-sarov.html

Offline Iconodule

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St Dmitri of Rostov practiced and commended it. Of course the immediate retort is, "Yeah, but he was steeped in Latin learning and culture." Which is true. And yet he is still an important Orthodox saint.
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Inquiring about Eastern Orthodoxy 101


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St. Seraphim did not teach a version of the Rosary but according to the link below, Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsk may have.  If Bp Seraphim did, this never became an established, accepted, or well regarded practice in Orthodoxy.  If we want to enter the Kingdom and attain to that which the Orthodox saints attained, we should follow Orthodox practices and methods which they utilized and not borrow questionable practices from other religions.  Aside from this anecdote regarding Bp Seraphim, I have heard eno Orthodox saint ever suggest that the Rosary is a good practice that should be utilized by those desiring salvation.

http://fatherdavidbirdosb.blogspot.com/2010/10/irenikon-rosary-of-st-seraphim-of-sarov.html

Wrong.  Fr Alexander is quoting Fr Zosima who is quoting St Seraphim.  The nuns of Diveyevo still follow this rule.  He then goes on to quote Fr Zosima relating Bishop Seraphim introducing the 15 decade commemorations.
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Offline isxodnik

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Tired of reading nonsense, climbed to Google. So:
[machine translation ]
The Theotokos rule is a cell prayer, which became widespread in Russia since the beginning of the 19th century and consists in daily reading of "virgin Mary"/«Богородице Дево» 150 times, often with the addition of "our father" after every ten. The Theotokos rule in Russia has been known since the last third of the 17th century, when the book "the star of the blessed" was widely circulated in the lists, telling about miracles with those who read the Archangel joy 150 times a day. According to the PostScript to the Preface, it is a translation from the "Belarusian book", made by a certain Nikita in Moscow in 1668. The stories are borrowed mainly from Western sources, although there are also Russian origin. More than 100 manuscripts of this book are known. From the Preface to "the Star most bright" it follows that the virgin of the rule can substitute for the Akathist to the Theotokos (it contains about 150 hairetikon). This, as well as other signs suggest that the book is based on a certain Catholic treatise on the rosary - prayer practice, very close to the rule of the Theotokos.

The Theotokos rule enjoyed the love of many famous Russian ascetics. Kiev starets Parfeny (Krasnopevtsev) recited "hail Mary"/«Богородице Дево» every day 300 times. Erp. Seraphim of Sarov commanded the sisters of the Diveyev community to fulfill the Theotokos rule during the daily walk along the groove around Diveyev. In the second half of the 19th century virgin of the rule practiced Iliodor (Zakharov), ieroshimonaha Glinskaya deserts. The priest-Martyr Seraphim (Zvezdinsky) recommended that after each dozen to remember certain events from the life of the blessed virgin and read various prayers for themselves and for the world.
http://www.pravenc.ru/text/149545.html

In the scheme of the EP. Seraphim it is easy to notice the two following points: 1) the 13th reflection in the Zion chamber during the descent of the Holy spirit is the mother of God - this is typical of Western iconography and it is highly unusual for a Byzantine, moreover, often derided as the Latin; 2) the expression "glory crowned," the mother of God, vividly recalls this story as Couronnement de la Vierge, again, purely Western in origin, though occurring sometimes on Russian icon of the XIX century. It must be assumed that the Lord borrowed his scheme from some Western guide to reading the rosary.
https://katalik.livejournal.com/99471.html

The monk Seraphim of Sarov commanded the Diveevo sisters the Theotokos rule in the form of reading 150 times "the virgin"/«Богородице Дево»: "Who will pass this Groove with prayer, and one and a half hundred virgin will read, to all here: and Athos, and Jerusalem, and Kiev".
https://diveevo-monastyr.ru/pilgrims/kak-provesti-den/
As such, it is common, and I also went with the nuns in the Groove.

The Hieromartyr Seraphim of Zvezdinsky introduced Catholic motives into this rule. Let's leave it to him. But not PRP. St. Seraphim Of Sarov. From these panels (after each dozen) for a mile the Catholic spirit is felt.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 01:53:04 PM by isxodnik »
- Вы говорите, они вам угрожали?
- Да, сказали "сюда иди".
- Ну, "иди сюда" - это не угроза.
- "Иди сюда" - нет, а "сюда иди" - очень даже.

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"Rejoice, O Virgin" x 150 =/= rosary
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Offline WPM

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Yea, he means like the Orthodox version of Rosary or Jesus Prayer.
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An old nugget dredged from the trivia box. I listened to a lecture by Dr. James Voelz, from Concordia, mentioning a Lutheran pastor who did not accept Revelation as scripture. As I recall, Dr. Voelz said the LCMS didn’t require pastors to accept any particular books as being part of the canon.

Depends on which or what kind of pastor you are talking about.
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St. Seraphim did not teach a version of the Rosary but according to the link below, Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsk may have.  If Bp Seraphim did, this never became an established, accepted, or well regarded practice in Orthodoxy.  If we want to enter the Kingdom and attain to that which the Orthodox saints attained, we should follow Orthodox practices and methods which they utilized and not borrow questionable practices from other religions.  Aside from this anecdote regarding Bp Seraphim, I have heard eno Orthodox saint ever suggest that the Rosary is a good practice that should be utilized by those desiring salvation.

http://fatherdavidbirdosb.blogspot.com/2010/10/irenikon-rosary-of-st-seraphim-of-sarov.html

Wrong.  Fr Alexander is quoting Fr Zosima who is quoting St Seraphim.  The nuns of Diveyevo still follow this rule.  He then goes on to quote Fr Zosima relating Bishop Seraphim introducing the 15 decade commemorations.

I believe it is these nuns and the nuns of Sarov who manufacture the high end leather Lestovkas with 150 counters, for praying the Rule of the Theotokos.

Council of Nicea:
Εθη ἀρχαῖα κρατείτω. 
Mores antiqui obtineant.
The ancient ways shall prevail.

The sentiment of Nicea in Greek and Latin, translated into English.

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Many Orthodox have a thing about not invoking the visual imagination in prayer, although Iconodule wrote an article on that subject, or was going to, debunking it.

Here: https://josephzheng.blogspot.com/2018/11/mental-imagery-and-orthodox-spirituality.html

Essentially the rosary is not directly comparable with imageless, hesychastic prayer; it has more in common with the hours, or canons and akathists. In fact it was advocated as a way to pray the liturgy of the hours for those without access to breviaries.

There are many instances in the Orthodox spiritual writings, including in the Philokalia, where Christians are exhorted to meditate on various topics- especially the life of Christ or the day of judgment. The rosary is essentially two practices- the recitation of the Hail Mary  and a meditation on key events in the life of Christ. Orthodox already do both of these, both in public services and individual devotions, so to declare the rosary a foreign practice is to ignore a lot of existing Orthodox practice. When some of the fathers talk about prayer needing to be imageless, they are using "prayer" in a very restricted sense, different from both liturgical prayers and the daily cycle of private prayers.


I really appreciated the clarity this article of yours provided, Iconodule.  :)

Quote

Quote
As far as the prayer ropes and Lestovkas we use are concerned, their principle use is praying the Jesus Prayer.  The Anglicans took this up and the “Anglican Rosary” is based around the Jesus Prayer.

As many Orthodox elders point out, the rope is just a tool and can be used for any prayers. "Most Holy Theotokos, save us" is another commonly used prayer.

You are of course quite right, and further to this point, we have the example of Lestovkas configured specifically for the Rule of St. Seraphim.  But one does not even need that to observe the rule.  A 150 knot prayer rope would work exceedingly well, as would a garden variety 50 knot variety (since you can with the left hand move your hand along the cross at the bottom to track your position).  What is more, the classic Lestovka I should have said is also used for counting Kyrie Eleisons, prayers of St. Ephrem and other things in the context of the Old Rite liturgy.  It, and the prayer rope, and Latin Rosary beads, are just counting tools, primitive addition (or multiplication) machines.

I myself do not use my lestovka in the Old Rite manner but rather use it to count the number of Jesus Prayers I have prayed in a sequence, alternating these with Kyries and with the Lord’s Prayer.

All of these devices are acceptable and a delight to piety, with the exception of the “Mother Goddess Rosary” which I expect will not be enthusiastically embraced by many members of OCNet (although I can think of a few former members who might spring for one; the Gnostic chap with Kaa the Snake as his avatar comes to mind).  ;)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 05:57:39 PM by Alpha60 »

Council of Nicea:
Εθη ἀρχαῖα κρατείτω. 
Mores antiqui obtineant.
The ancient ways shall prevail.

The sentiment of Nicea in Greek and Latin, translated into English.

Offline hecma925

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St. Seraphim did not teach a version of the Rosary but according to the link below, Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsk may have.  If Bp Seraphim did, this never became an established, accepted, or well regarded practice in Orthodoxy.  If we want to enter the Kingdom and attain to that which the Orthodox saints attained, we should follow Orthodox practices and methods which they utilized and not borrow questionable practices from other religions.  Aside from this anecdote regarding Bp Seraphim, I have heard eno Orthodox saint ever suggest that the Rosary is a good practice that should be utilized by those desiring salvation.

http://fatherdavidbirdosb.blogspot.com/2010/10/irenikon-rosary-of-st-seraphim-of-sarov.html

Wrong.  Fr Alexander is quoting Fr Zosima who is quoting St Seraphim.  The nuns of Diveyevo still follow this rule.  He then goes on to quote Fr Zosima relating Bishop Seraphim introducing the 15 decade commemorations.

I believe it is these nuns and the nuns of Sarov who manufacture the high end leather Lestovkas with 150 counters, for praying the Rule of the Theotokos.

Nuns at Diveyevo.  Sarov is a men's monastery.
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St. Seraphim did not teach a version of the Rosary but according to the link below, Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsk may have.  If Bp Seraphim did, this never became an established, accepted, or well regarded practice in Orthodoxy.  If we want to enter the Kingdom and attain to that which the Orthodox saints attained, we should follow Orthodox practices and methods which they utilized and not borrow questionable practices from other religions.  Aside from this anecdote regarding Bp Seraphim, I have heard eno Orthodox saint ever suggest that the Rosary is a good practice that should be utilized by those desiring salvation.

http://fatherdavidbirdosb.blogspot.com/2010/10/irenikon-rosary-of-st-seraphim-of-sarov.html

Wrong.  Fr Alexander is quoting Fr Zosima who is quoting St Seraphim.  The nuns of Diveyevo still follow this rule.  He then goes on to quote Fr Zosima relating Bishop Seraphim introducing the 15 decade commemorations.

I believe it is these nuns and the nuns of Sarov who manufacture the high end leather Lestovkas with 150 counters, for praying the Rule of the Theotokos.

Nuns at Diveyevo.  Sarov is a men's monastery.

Thank you for clarifying that.  Correct me if I’m wrong but they are both in the precincts of the “closed city” of Sarov and thus generally inaccessible to pilgrims?

Council of Nicea:
Εθη ἀρχαῖα κρατείτω. 
Mores antiqui obtineant.
The ancient ways shall prevail.

The sentiment of Nicea in Greek and Latin, translated into English.

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St. Seraphim did not teach a version of the Rosary but according to the link below, Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsk may have.  If Bp Seraphim did, this never became an established, accepted, or well regarded practice in Orthodoxy.  If we want to enter the Kingdom and attain to that which the Orthodox saints attained, we should follow Orthodox practices and methods which they utilized and not borrow questionable practices from other religions.  Aside from this anecdote regarding Bp Seraphim, I have heard eno Orthodox saint ever suggest that the Rosary is a good practice that should be utilized by those desiring salvation.

http://fatherdavidbirdosb.blogspot.com/2010/10/irenikon-rosary-of-st-seraphim-of-sarov.html

Wrong.  Fr Alexander is quoting Fr Zosima who is quoting St Seraphim.  The nuns of Diveyevo still follow this rule.  He then goes on to quote Fr Zosima relating Bishop Seraphim introducing the 15 decade commemorations.

I believe it is these nuns and the nuns of Sarov who manufacture the high end leather Lestovkas with 150 counters, for praying the Rule of the Theotokos.

Nuns at Diveyevo.  Sarov is a men's monastery.

Thank you for clarifying that.  Correct me if I’m wrong but they are both in the precincts of the “closed city” of Sarov and thus generally inaccessible to pilgrims?

Generally, but not impossible.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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- Вы говорите, они вам угрожали?
- Да, сказали "сюда иди".
- Ну, "иди сюда" - это не угроза.
- "Иди сюда" - нет, а "сюда иди" - очень даже.

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Here: https://josephzheng.blogspot.com/2018/11/mental-imagery-and-orthodox-spirituality.html

The author of the article in some rights, in some not. For example, Yes, it is helpful to think about death, think (I'm still afraid of the word "meditation" due to the fact that it could adhere/adhere to the meanings that are alien to Christianity) on the commandments, etc. But he is wrong when he says that only the threat of involuntary images. Not at all, voluntary are dangerous no less. The Holy fathers, for example, Saint Ignatius Bryanchaninov, speak about this directly and unambiguously.

Or the author says:
"In this light the dismissal of the rosary as dangerously imaginative is both unfair and indicative of a misunderstanding of Orthodox spiritual tradition."

But in fact the Orthodox tradition just refuses rosary! There is no rosary in Orthodoxy. Here we are faced with a choice: either to abandon the rosary as a dangerous practice - or to consider the Orthodox spiritual tradition incomplete, flawed, and ourselves - the most intelligent.

In addition, he is not quite right when he says that the presence of Psalms and troparia in the divine service means the flickering of images in prayer. There are three types of thinking: objective, figurative, and abstract. The author forgets about the third, higher, abstract thinking. Psalmody should cause not so much the flow of images, how many the flow of meanings. Yes, the unskilled use crutches in the form of images. But, unlike invalid, we can and should learn to do without crutches, and do it from the start. And then from the flow of meaning to refuse.
- Вы говорите, они вам угрожали?
- Да, сказали "сюда иди".
- Ну, "иди сюда" - это не угроза.
- "Иди сюда" - нет, а "сюда иди" - очень даже.

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Offline Alpha60

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Here: https://josephzheng.blogspot.com/2018/11/mental-imagery-and-orthodox-spirituality.html

The author of the article in some rights, in some not. For example, Yes, it is helpful to think about death, think (I'm still afraid of the word "meditation" due to the fact that it could adhere/adhere to the meanings that are alien to Christianity) on the commandments, etc. But he is wrong when he says that only the threat of involuntary images. Not at all, voluntary are dangerous no less. The Holy fathers, for example, Saint Ignatius Bryanchaninov, speak about this directly and unambiguously.

Or the author says:
"In this light the dismissal of the rosary as dangerously imaginative is both unfair and indicative of a misunderstanding of Orthodox spiritual tradition."

But in fact the Orthodox tradition just refuses rosary! There is no rosary in Orthodoxy. Here we are faced with a choice: either to abandon the rosary as a dangerous practice - or to consider the Orthodox spiritual tradition incomplete, flawed, and ourselves - the most intelligent.

In addition, he is not quite right when he says that the presence of Psalms and troparia in the divine service means the flickering of images in prayer. There are three types of thinking: objective, figurative, and abstract. The author forgets about the third, higher, abstract thinking. Psalmody should cause not so much the flow of images, how many the flow of meanings. Yes, the unskilled use crutches in the form of images. But, unlike invalid, we can and should learn to do without crutches, and do it from the start. And then from the flow of meaning to refuse.

Show me where St. Ignatius Brianchaninov condemns the rosary.  Seriously, I dare you: I own a copy of the Arena and On the Prayer of Jesus and haven’t read anything of the sort.

Furthermore, St. Ignatius Brianchaninov is not infallible, nor are any of the saints individually.  So even if St. Ignatius did bash the rosary, that is not definitive; in particular to the extent that Dr. Zheng points to the liturgical tradition of the church in support of his opinion, given that the liturgy of the Orthodox church in its hymnody reflects to the greatest extent the consensus patrum, on the principle of lex orandi, lex credendi, arguments taken from the liturgy of the Church are hard to debate.  They can generally only be countered with other arguments taken from the liturgy.  And given Dr. Zheng’s deep knowledge of the hymnody of matins and vespers, and the very general and wide-ranging applicability of the quotes, I daresay his argument is unlikely to be defeated.

Lastly, I would also note that the Arena is, by and large, a guidebook for Russian monks based on Russian monastic praxis in the 19th century, which happens to be generally spiritually edifying in a beautiful way, but the specific directions St. Ignatius gives for monks do not apply outside of the monastery, and are further subject to being overridden by the typikon of a specific monastery (some monasteries might be less formal and less severe in their monastic discipline; New Skete comes to mind, whereas others might be more formal and more severe but follow somewhat different traditions, usually on the basis of ethnic identity; for example, a Coptic monastery is going to operate slightly differently than a Russian monastery, with more focus on the memorization of the psalms contained in the Agpeya and the use of “Kyrie eleison” vs. the full length Jesus Prayer, while also having some commonality in the form of midnight liturgies, the use of the rectory and so on, but all of the above are equally Orthodox)”

Council of Nicea:
Εθη ἀρχαῖα κρατείτω. 
Mores antiqui obtineant.
The ancient ways shall prevail.

The sentiment of Nicea in Greek and Latin, translated into English.

Offline noahzarc1

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St Ambrose (340-397) said, "When you are at Rome live in the Roman style; when you are elsewhere live as they live elsewhere." He also said, "When I am at Rome, I fast on a Saturday: when I am at Milan I do not. Do the same. Follow the custom of the church where you are." I hope I have those quotes correct and I think they underscore an important point, particularly for Christians in the U.S. which is really not a country founded by any one tradition. There are many cultures and Christian practices from the many countries wherein those immigrants arrived. I do not think it is beneficial to trouble people with the tradition of one Church as this thread has made clear, there are many forms of devotion to the Blessed Theotokos.
"While we fight about words, take advantage of ambiguities, criticize authors, fight on party questions, have difficulty in agreeing, and prepare to anathematize each other, there is scarce a man who belongs to Christ." - Hilary of Poitiers (367)

Offline Alpha60

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The problem is not the Rosary itself so much as what it ends up displacing.  We should be saying Matins or at least First/Third/Sixth Hour before Liturgy.  The Rosary displaced this in many of our parishes.

This is deeply distressing to me.  Would you be able to say which Eastern Catholic churches have this problem, and if any are relatively free of it?  I noticed a Novena/Rosary service on the schedule of the Syriac Catholic church in Los Angeles, which I haven’t visited, but this distresses me, because of the Suroye churches in greater Los Angeles, none of them have regular vespers.

Eastern Catholicism is something I respect and regard as very important, because it represents in many cases the continuation of the Orthodox church ministering to a specific ethnic group, for example, the Italo-Albanian Catholic Churches, and in other cases Eastern Catholics have brought the Byzantine Rite to people who historically did not have access to it, for example, the Hungarian Greek Catholic Church.  One area where Orthodoxy in general, and I had assumed Eastern Catholicism as well, tends to shine, is the divine office, in the form of Vespers and Matins, or the Vigils service in Slavonic churches. 

Indeed, to the extent that the Divine Office has, despite efforts to communalize it post-Vatican II, remained, in the Latin Rite, primarily something that priests read out of a much simplified Novus Ordo “Liturgy of the Hours” book which replaces the old Breviary, and to the extent that outside of the UK, the popularity among Anglicans of Evensong has greatly declined, and the traditional morning service of Mattins, Litany and Communion or Ante Communion has virtually disappeared even within the UK (and furthermore, Evensong itself has become almost exclusively the domain of cathedrals and major parish churches, perhaps due to the BBC broadcasts of it unwittingly reducing attendance), Orthodoxy and the Eastern churches, as pointed out by Fr. Robert Taft, SJ, of eternal memory, in his excellent survey, The Liturgy of the Hours, represent the last part of Christendom where the Divine Office is a vital part of the life of most parishes, in addition to the Eucharist and separate from the warped Protestant idea of “the service of the Word”, non-Eucharistic Sunday services which cannot be considered part of the Divine Office any more than the Byzantine Typika can be considered a substitute for Orthros.

So as far as the Divine Office as an integral part of communal parish life as opposed to merely a monastic conventual service or a private clerical devotion, the Eastern churches are it, and to the extent they fail in this capacity (and I would lament to note the Armenian, Antiochian and Syriac Orthodox Churches are not doing a particularly good job in this respect), this is disastrous, in my opinion.  The Eucharist and other sacramental services become devalued when served apart from the Divine Office, detached from their usual positions in the daily cycle of services.

Even within the cloisters of the monastery there is some risk of a de-emphasis of the Divine Office; New Skete has only two daily prayer times centered on Matins and Vespers only, with the liturgy served at one of these, rather than the more common three (for example, at Elder Ephrem’s monastery, a very common pattern is observed, with Prime, Nocturns, Orthros and the Liturgy from midnight to 3 or 4 AM, the Ninth Hour and Vespers at 3:45 lasting until dinner, and Compline immediately after dinner, around 5:30 or 5:45.  And there is Elder Sophrony’s monastery in the UK, where the communal recitation of the Jesus Prayer replaces parts of the Divine Office.  But this is alright, since monasteries are free to adopt a typikon based on their specific spiritual direction.  I could also cite the Carthusian practice wherein the choir monks spend most of their time in their hermitages in prayer, their temporal needs attended to by the brothers, with the daily Conventual Mass and the weekly communal walk the sole periods of interaction between the choir monks. 

These cases are the exception to the rule, and in like manner, regrettably, the service of the divine office in Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches and Eastern Catholic churches as a regular part of parish life is the sole exception to the trend of the past thousand years towards the devotionalization and abolition of the Divine Office, accelerated in the past sixty years by secularism, which has caused the one good thing accomplished by the Anglicans, the revival of the Divine Office as a central part of parish life, to be lost.

And if the Eastern Catholic churches allow Orthros and Hesperinos or All Night Vigils or the other offices proper to their liturgical rite to be forfeit in favor of group devotions like the Novena, Eucharistic adoration, or group rosary sessions, this would be truly lamentable, because it could cut off people like the Hungarians, the Italo-Albanians, the Chaldeans, the Maronites and other ethnic groups primarily served by the Eastern Catholic churches (and usually also the liturgical trainwreck that is the contemporary Novus Ordo Western Rite, so that the Eastern Catholic parish becomes the sole option for the pious in places lacking in Orthodox parishes), from the Divine Office as they had historically known it.  Indeed I suspect this has already happened to a large extent, which is why I am greatly desirous to hear from Deacon Lance an appraisal of the relative health or lack thereof of the divine office in each of the sui juris churches, both in “the Diaspora” and the Old Country.

Council of Nicea:
Εθη ἀρχαῖα κρατείτω. 
Mores antiqui obtineant.
The ancient ways shall prevail.

The sentiment of Nicea in Greek and Latin, translated into English.

Offline Alpha60

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St Ambrose (340-397) said, "When you are at Rome live in the Roman style; when you are elsewhere live as they live elsewhere." He also said, "When I am at Rome, I fast on a Saturday: when I am at Milan I do not. Do the same. Follow the custom of the church where you are." I hope I have those quotes correct and I think they underscore an important point, particularly for Christians in the U.S. which is really not a country founded by any one tradition. There are many cultures and Christian practices from the many countries wherein those immigrants arrived. I do not think it is beneficial to trouble people with the tradition of one Church as this thread has made clear, there are many forms of devotion to the Blessed Theotokos.

Conversely, this famous quote of St. Ambrose would seem to indicate that Orthodox Christians in Western Europe should, to the extent possible, use the Rosary and follow Western liturgical forms, bearing in mind the most unfortunate schism between Rome and the Eastern churches.

Council of Nicea:
Εθη ἀρχαῖα κρατείτω. 
Mores antiqui obtineant.
The ancient ways shall prevail.

The sentiment of Nicea in Greek and Latin, translated into English.

Offline noahzarc1

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St Ambrose (340-397) said, "When you are at Rome live in the Roman style; when you are elsewhere live as they live elsewhere." He also said, "When I am at Rome, I fast on a Saturday: when I am at Milan I do not. Do the same. Follow the custom of the church where you are." I hope I have those quotes correct and I think they underscore an important point, particularly for Christians in the U.S. which is really not a country founded by any one tradition. There are many cultures and Christian practices from the many countries wherein those immigrants arrived. I do not think it is beneficial to trouble people with the tradition of one Church as this thread has made clear, there are many forms of devotion to the Blessed Theotokos.

Conversely, this famous quote of St. Ambrose would seem to indicate that Orthodox Christians in Western Europe should, to the extent possible, use the Rosary and follow Western liturgical forms, bearing in mind the most unfortunate schism between Rome and the Eastern churches.
Yes, and I do realize that when he spoke such words (4th century) it was prior to many of the issues that were to befall the church 800-1000 years later. I was looking at it from the stand point, "What should a Christian in the U.S. do?" Every Church of almost every culture is here. I would not just the Roman belief to be imposed on all or something like that. 
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There are a few good things happening in Southern Baptist churches.  Might as well go back.
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The problem is not the Rosary itself so much as what it ends up displacing.  We should be saying Matins or at least First/Third/Sixth Hour before Liturgy.  The Rosary displaced this in many of our parishes.

This is deeply distressing to me.  Would you be able to say which Eastern Catholic churches have this problem, and if any are relatively free of it?  I noticed a Novena/Rosary service on the schedule of the Syriac Catholic church in Los Angeles, which I haven’t visited, but this distresses me, because of the Suroye churches in greater Los Angeles, none of them have regular vespers.

Eastern Catholicism is something I respect and regard as very important, because it represents in many cases the continuation of the Orthodox church ministering to a specific ethnic group, for example, the Italo-Albanian Catholic Churches, and in other cases Eastern Catholics have brought the Byzantine Rite to people who historically did not have access to it, for example, the Hungarian Greek Catholic Church.  One area where Orthodoxy in general, and I had assumed Eastern Catholicism as well, tends to shine, is the divine office, in the form of Vespers and Matins, or the Vigils service in Slavonic churches. 

Indeed, to the extent that the Divine Office has, despite efforts to communalize it post-Vatican II, remained, in the Latin Rite, primarily something that priests read out of a much simplified Novus Ordo “Liturgy of the Hours” book which replaces the old Breviary, and to the extent that outside of the UK, the popularity among Anglicans of Evensong has greatly declined, and the traditional morning service of Mattins, Litany and Communion or Ante Communion has virtually disappeared even within the UK (and furthermore, Evensong itself has become almost exclusively the domain of cathedrals and major parish churches, perhaps due to the BBC broadcasts of it unwittingly reducing attendance), Orthodoxy and the Eastern churches, as pointed out by Fr. Robert Taft, SJ, of eternal memory, in his excellent survey, The Liturgy of the Hours, represent the last part of Christendom where the Divine Office is a vital part of the life of most parishes, in addition to the Eucharist and separate from the warped Protestant idea of “the service of the Word”, non-Eucharistic Sunday services which cannot be considered part of the Divine Office any more than the Byzantine Typika can be considered a substitute for Orthros.

So as far as the Divine Office as an integral part of communal parish life as opposed to merely a monastic conventual service or a private clerical devotion, the Eastern churches are it, and to the extent they fail in this capacity (and I would lament to note the Armenian, Antiochian and Syriac Orthodox Churches are not doing a particularly good job in this respect), this is disastrous, in my opinion.  The Eucharist and other sacramental services become devalued when served apart from the Divine Office, detached from their usual positions in the daily cycle of services.

Even within the cloisters of the monastery there is some risk of a de-emphasis of the Divine Office; New Skete has only two daily prayer times centered on Matins and Vespers only, with the liturgy served at one of these, rather than the more common three (for example, at Elder Ephrem’s monastery, a very common pattern is observed, with Prime, Nocturns, Orthros and the Liturgy from midnight to 3 or 4 AM, the Ninth Hour and Vespers at 3:45 lasting until dinner, and Compline immediately after dinner, around 5:30 or 5:45.  And there is Elder Sophrony’s monastery in the UK, where the communal recitation of the Jesus Prayer replaces parts of the Divine Office.  But this is alright, since monasteries are free to adopt a typikon based on their specific spiritual direction.  I could also cite the Carthusian practice wherein the choir monks spend most of their time in their hermitages in prayer, their temporal needs attended to by the brothers, with the daily Conventual Mass and the weekly communal walk the sole periods of interaction between the choir monks. 

These cases are the exception to the rule, and in like manner, regrettably, the service of the divine office in Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches and Eastern Catholic churches as a regular part of parish life is the sole exception to the trend of the past thousand years towards the devotionalization and abolition of the Divine Office, accelerated in the past sixty years by secularism, which has caused the one good thing accomplished by the Anglicans, the revival of the Divine Office as a central part of parish life, to be lost.

And if the Eastern Catholic churches allow Orthros and Hesperinos or All Night Vigils or the other offices proper to their liturgical rite to be forfeit in favor of group devotions like the Novena, Eucharistic adoration, or group rosary sessions, this would be truly lamentable, because it could cut off people like the Hungarians, the Italo-Albanians, the Chaldeans, the Maronites and other ethnic groups primarily served by the Eastern Catholic churches (and usually also the liturgical trainwreck that is the contemporary Novus Ordo Western Rite, so that the Eastern Catholic parish becomes the sole option for the pious in places lacking in Orthodox parishes), from the Divine Office as they had historically known it.  Indeed I suspect this has already happened to a large extent, which is why I am greatly desirous to hear from Deacon Lance an appraisal of the relative health or lack thereof of the divine office in each of the sui juris churches, both in “the Diaspora” and the Old Country.
In Ruthenian parishes one is more likely to find the Third Hour before Liturgy.  There has been a strong push to de-Latinize for many years now and Vespers, Matins, and Hours have been reintroduced by many parishes.  The Rosary is largely a private matter now.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Quote
Even within the cloisters of the monastery there is some risk of a de-emphasis of the Divine Office; New Skete has only two daily prayer times centered on Matins and Vespers only, with the liturgy served at one of these, rather than the more common three[quote/]

You consistently misinterpret what New Skete is doing.  Far from de-emphasizing the Divine Office, they so emphasize it that they put the work into revising it for their situation and celebrating the offices at the proper time of day.  Compline is said privately in the cell.  During Lent they add the Cathedral Office of Tersext.
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St Ambrose (340-397) said, "When you are at Rome live in the Roman style; when you are elsewhere live as they live elsewhere." He also said, "When I am at Rome, I fast on a Saturday: when I am at Milan I do not. Do the same. Follow the custom of the church where you are." I hope I have those quotes correct and I think they underscore an important point, particularly for Christians in the U.S. which is really not a country founded by any one tradition. There are many cultures and Christian practices from the many countries wherein those immigrants arrived. I do not think it is beneficial to trouble people with the tradition of one Church as this thread has made clear, there are many forms of devotion to the Blessed Theotokos.

Yes, I also come to the conclusion that multiculturalism hinders you a lot. God is one, human nature and spiritual laws are the same anywhere in the universe. Differences are possible only in the form (ritual). Imagination in prayer refers to the essential, not the ritual side of spiritual life.
- Вы говорите, они вам угрожали?
- Да, сказали "сюда иди".
- Ну, "иди сюда" - это не угроза.
- "Иди сюда" - нет, а "сюда иди" - очень даже.

Offline isxodnik

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Show me where St. Ignatius Brianchaninov condemns the rosary.  Seriously, I dare you: I own a copy of the Arena and On the Prayer of Jesus and haven’t read anything of the sort.

You're welcome. Ascetic Experiments, volume 1, On the Jesus prayer - the Conversation of the elder with the disciple - About seduction:



You are mistaken that Saint Ignatius speaks for himself. On the contrary, he constantly refers to the Holy fathers, so often that a rare page does without quotes and footnotes. So this photo is about 3/4 of a turn busy quotes STS. Simeon the New theologian and Gregory Sinai.

Also to the papacy - and its spiritual practices! - Saint Ignatius sharply negative attitude. You can Google something like "Игнатий Брянчанинов о католичестве".

by the way, has long wanted to ask: how many books of Saint Ignatius translated on English, and what?
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 01:56:14 AM by isxodnik »
- Вы говорите, они вам угрожали?
- Да, сказали "сюда иди".
- Ну, "иди сюда" - это не угроза.
- "Иди сюда" - нет, а "сюда иди" - очень даже.

Offline Xavier

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Fr. Novak writes, "Monday, October 2, 2017

HOW TO PRAY THE ORTHODOX ROSARY

INTRODUCTION

What is commonly called the Rosary was known as Our Lady’s Psalter in the ancient Christian West, and is known as The Rule of the Theotokos (Mother of God) in the East. It is an Orthodox Christian devotion based on praying the Angelic Salutation (Hail Mary) 150 times. The prayer rule consists of 150 Angelic Salutations, which are divided into 15 decades. Each decade focuses on some important event in the life of the Mother of God.

The Orthodox Rosary is prayed on a Prayer Rope, also called a Chotki or Comboschini. The same Prayer Rope that is used to pray the Jesus Prayer is used for this devotion. To pray the Rosary, a Prayer Rope is used in which the knots are divided into groups of ten, or decades, with a beed separating each decade.

Many people think that the Rosary originated in Roman Catholicism and that it is a Roman Catholic devotion, but that is not historically correct. “The rosary was originally an Orthodox form of prayer that was later adopted by the Roman Catholics” (1).

“The prayer rope was formed by St. Pachomius in the fourth century. From there the rosary developed, some say as early as the eighth century” (2). While the devotion originated among the monks of ancient Egypt, it was given name the Rosary by the Christians of the British Isles.

OUR LADY’S PSALTER: THE ROSARY OR GARLAND OF ROSES

The monks of the Egyptian Thebaid were praying one hundred fifty Angelic Salutations (Hail Mary’s) grouped into fifteen decades following the pattern of the one hundred and fifty Psalms as early as the fourth century. However, while the origin of The Rule of the Theotokos, or Our Lady’s Psalter, is found in ancient Egypt, the term “Rosary” — or “garland of roses” — has its origin in the British Isles.

“It was the Western Celtic and Sarum Rites that were to develop what is today called the ‘rosary’ or ‘garland of roses.’ The Western Churches, like those of the East, had a great devotion to the Psalter of David which they divided into three parts composed of fifty psalms each. The ‘Three Fifties’ were recited for the dead and for all manner of other intentions as well by both monastics and lay-people.

“To accommodate monks and laity who could not read, little psalters were devised based on the repetition of the Lord's Prayer and the Angelical Salutation 150 times, divided into three fifties as well. Other psalters based on meditations on the life of Christ and the Most Holy Mother of God were also developed. Soon these were all fused into ‘Our Lady's Psalter’ or the ‘Rosary.’ The use of such rosaries is of a venerable age and the Western Rites of the Orthodox Church continue in its use” (3) ...

SOMETIMES CALLED ST. SERAPHIM’S ROSARY

The Orthodox Rosary is sometimes called St. Seraphim’s Rosary after two great Saints of the Orthodox Church — both named St. Seraphim — who were proponents of The Rule of the Theotokos: St. Seraphim of Sarov (1754-1833) and St. Seraphim Zvezdinsky  (1883-1937) ... Fr. Alexander Gumanovsky writes: “Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsky performed the Rule of the Mother of God every day, and, when he performed it he prayed for the whole world, embracing in his Rule the whole life of the Queen of Heaven.”
 
After the explanation of how to pray, Father concludes, "5.   The Hail Mary is a combination of Biblical texts taken from Luke 1:28 and Luke 1:42, and is a prayer of praise. It is very similar to its Eastern form:

O Hail Mother of God and Virgin, Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou has given birth to the Saviour of our souls. Amen.

Centuries later, the name of Jesus and a petition for Mary’s intercession were commonly added, giving us the Hail Mary as we have it today:

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
 
... The early (shorter) version of the Hail Mary was still being used among the Irish at the beginning of the 20th century. Although the longer version of the Hail Mary is not ancient, it is perfectly Orthodox in content and is freely used by Orthodox Christians."

"Fr. Victor E. Novak Ralston, Nebraska, United States Fr. Victor Novak is the rector of Holy Cross parish, located in the Ralston suburb of Omaha, Nebraska. Our address is 7545 Main Street, Ralston, Nebraska 68127. Holy Cross is a Western Rite parish of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR)." From: http://frnovak.blogspot.com/2017/10/how-to-pray-orthodox-rosary.html

So, is Father Novak mistaken? These are the 15 meditations per decade of the Rule of the Theotokos as enlisted by Father Novak.

"There are fifteen Meditations:

Meditation 1- The Birth of the Theotokos [Theotokos means, Mother of God]
Meditation 2- The Presentation of the Theotokos
Meditation 3- The Annunciation of the Lord's Birth
Meditation 4- The Meeting of the Theotokos and St. Elizabeth
Meditation 5- The Birth of the Lord
Meditation 6- The Prophecy of St. Simeon
Meditation 7- The Flight into Egypt
Meditation 8- The Boy-Christ among the Doctors
Meditation 9- The Wedding of Cana
Meditation 10- The Crucifixion of the Lord
Meditation 11- The Resurrection of the Lord
Meditation 12- The Ascension of the Lord into Heaven
Meditation 13- Pentecost
Meditation 14- The Dormition of the Virgin Theotokos
Meditation 15- The Crowning of the Theotokos by the Blessed Trinity"
"My dear Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with your most precious Blood and your sacrifice on Calvary, I hereby offer my whole life to the intention of your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Together with my life, I place at your disposal all Holy Masses, all my Holy Communions, all my good deeds, all my sacrifices ... https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Pray the Rosary every day to obtain Peace for the world"

Offline noahzarc1

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Fr. Novak writes, "Monday, October 2, 2017

HOW TO PRAY THE ORTHODOX ROSARY

INTRODUCTION

What is commonly called the Rosary was known as Our Lady’s Psalter in the ancient Christian West, and is known as The Rule of the Theotokos (Mother of God) in the East. It is an Orthodox Christian devotion based on praying the Angelic Salutation (Hail Mary) 150 times. The prayer rule consists of 150 Angelic Salutations, which are divided into 15 decades. Each decade focuses on some important event in the life of the Mother of God.

The Orthodox Rosary is prayed on a Prayer Rope, also called a Chotki or Comboschini. The same Prayer Rope that is used to pray the Jesus Prayer is used for this devotion. To pray the Rosary, a Prayer Rope is used in which the knots are divided into groups of ten, or decades, with a beed separating each decade.

Many people think that the Rosary originated in Roman Catholicism and that it is a Roman Catholic devotion, but that is not historically correct. “The rosary was originally an Orthodox form of prayer that was later adopted by the Roman Catholics” (1).

“The prayer rope was formed by St. Pachomius in the fourth century. From there the rosary developed, some say as early as the eighth century” (2). While the devotion originated among the monks of ancient Egypt, it was given name the Rosary by the Christians of the British Isles.

OUR LADY’S PSALTER: THE ROSARY OR GARLAND OF ROSES

The monks of the Egyptian Thebaid were praying one hundred fifty Angelic Salutations (Hail Mary’s) grouped into fifteen decades following the pattern of the one hundred and fifty Psalms as early as the fourth century. However, while the origin of The Rule of the Theotokos, or Our Lady’s Psalter, is found in ancient Egypt, the term “Rosary” — or “garland of roses” — has its origin in the British Isles.

“It was the Western Celtic and Sarum Rites that were to develop what is today called the ‘rosary’ or ‘garland of roses.’ The Western Churches, like those of the East, had a great devotion to the Psalter of David which they divided into three parts composed of fifty psalms each. The ‘Three Fifties’ were recited for the dead and for all manner of other intentions as well by both monastics and lay-people.

“To accommodate monks and laity who could not read, little psalters were devised based on the repetition of the Lord's Prayer and the Angelical Salutation 150 times, divided into three fifties as well. Other psalters based on meditations on the life of Christ and the Most Holy Mother of God were also developed. Soon these were all fused into ‘Our Lady's Psalter’ or the ‘Rosary.’ The use of such rosaries is of a venerable age and the Western Rites of the Orthodox Church continue in its use” (3) ...

SOMETIMES CALLED ST. SERAPHIM’S ROSARY

The Orthodox Rosary is sometimes called St. Seraphim’s Rosary after two great Saints of the Orthodox Church — both named St. Seraphim — who were proponents of The Rule of the Theotokos: St. Seraphim of Sarov (1754-1833) and St. Seraphim Zvezdinsky  (1883-1937) ... Fr. Alexander Gumanovsky writes: “Bishop Seraphim Zvezdinsky performed the Rule of the Mother of God every day, and, when he performed it he prayed for the whole world, embracing in his Rule the whole life of the Queen of Heaven.”
 
After the explanation of how to pray, Father concludes, "5.   The Hail Mary is a combination of Biblical texts taken from Luke 1:28 and Luke 1:42, and is a prayer of praise. It is very similar to its Eastern form:

O Hail Mother of God and Virgin, Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou has given birth to the Saviour of our souls. Amen.

Centuries later, the name of Jesus and a petition for Mary’s intercession were commonly added, giving us the Hail Mary as we have it today:

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
 
... The early (shorter) version of the Hail Mary was still being used among the Irish at the beginning of the 20th century. Although the longer version of the Hail Mary is not ancient, it is perfectly Orthodox in content and is freely used by Orthodox Christians."

"Fr. Victor E. Novak Ralston, Nebraska, United States Fr. Victor Novak is the rector of Holy Cross parish, located in the Ralston suburb of Omaha, Nebraska. Our address is 7545 Main Street, Ralston, Nebraska 68127. Holy Cross is a Western Rite parish of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia (ROCOR)." From: http://frnovak.blogspot.com/2017/10/how-to-pray-orthodox-rosary.html

So, is Father Novak mistaken? These are the 15 meditations per decade of the Rule of the Theotokos as enlisted by Father Novak.

"There are fifteen Meditations:

Meditation 1- The Birth of the Theotokos [Theotokos means, Mother of God]
Meditation 2- The Presentation of the Theotokos
Meditation 3- The Annunciation of the Lord's Birth
Meditation 4- The Meeting of the Theotokos and St. Elizabeth
Meditation 5- The Birth of the Lord
Meditation 6- The Prophecy of St. Simeon
Meditation 7- The Flight into Egypt
Meditation 8- The Boy-Christ among the Doctors
Meditation 9- The Wedding of Cana
Meditation 10- The Crucifixion of the Lord
Meditation 11- The Resurrection of the Lord
Meditation 12- The Ascension of the Lord into Heaven
Meditation 13- Pentecost
Meditation 14- The Dormition of the Virgin Theotokos
Meditation 15- The Crowning of the Theotokos by the Blessed Trinity"
Xavier,

You agree with or disagree with the additional mysteries added by Pope John Paul II? Do you pray the additional mysteries? Why or why not?
"While we fight about words, take advantage of ambiguities, criticize authors, fight on party questions, have difficulty in agreeing, and prepare to anathematize each other, there is scarce a man who belongs to Christ." - Hilary of Poitiers (367)