Author Topic: Greatest Orthodox authors/church fathers from Ethiopia, Eritrea, India?  (Read 893 times)

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Offline Nicholas_83

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It seems fairly easy to find writings of Coptic, Armenian, and Syriac church fathers and other spiritual writers.
However I must admit ignorance of any such authors (let alone where to find their writings).
Can you help me out with names, recommended writings and hopefully where to find them?

Offline reclusivus

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I know next to nothing about the Saint Thomas Christians beyond the basics and the chaos it's been through since the British Raj; I wonder what records and writings exist from ancient times from/about them.

On that note I read interestingly that even in the 9th century, King Alfred the Great of England knew of them and tried to send diplomats!
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Offline Volnutt

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V. C. Samuel is one of the premier Malankara writers, I know. Mor Ephrem could tell you a lot of other names.

Ethiopian and Eritrean stuff is notorious for being sparsely translated, unfortunately. Maybe ask the people behind this for some recommendations? https://ethiopianorthodoxbible.wordpress.com/ethiopian-orthodox-canon-of-scripture/
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 11:04:40 PM by Volnutt »
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Offline jobin219

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A few of the Indian authors whose writings have been translated to/exist in English. Unfortunately, the availability of English works is very sparse. Please note the following are works I've read myself, these authors may have many other works as well that would be great to read. In no particular order:

- Very Rev. Fr. Mani Rajan K Cor-Episcopo:
* "Queen of the Sacraments"
* "Martyrs, Saints and Prelates of the Syriac Orthodox Church"
* "Holy Fathers of the Syrian Orient Entombed in Kerala"

late Very Rev. Fr. Kurian Kaniyamparambil Arch Cor-Episcopo:
* "The Syrian Orthodox Church in India and Its Apostolic Faith"
* "What shall I do to be saved?"

- late Mor Dionysius Geevarghese Vattasseril (founder of the Indian Orthodox Church): "Quintessence of Religious Doctrines"

- late E.M. Philip: "The Indian Church of St. Thomas"

- late Geevarghese Mar Ivanios (founder of the uniate Syro-Malankara Catholics): "Were the Syrian Christians Nestorians"

- HG Mor Athanasius Paulose Kadavil II of blessed memory:
* "The Syrian Orthodox Church: Its Religion and Philosophy"
* "Meaning and Interpretation of the Eucharist of the Syrian Church"
* "A Guide to the Altar Assistants"

- late Dr. Daniel Babu Paul:
* "The Syrian Orthodox Christians of St. Thomas"
* "The Saint from Kooded"

- Fr. Baby Varghese (Indian Orthodox Church):
* "West Syriac Liturgical Theology"
* "The Syriac Version of the Liturgy of St. James A Brief History for Students"

- Fr. Bijo Markose: "Prayers and Fasts according to Bar Ebroyo"
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Offline irishpilgrim

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I have received rich Orthodox and Chrstian social and culture enlightenment from late Bishop Paulos Mar Gregorios. Before ordinations as priest and bishop, I believe he was V.C. Samuel. His writings on Christ's nature and EO & RC abuses at Chalcedon provided the first understandings of the Chalcedon controversies that clarified my understanding of and acceptance of Oriental Orthodox Christogy theology and faith. Bishop Gregorios was Secretary to Haille Selaisse, which enabled him to lead the organization of the fruitful Oriental/Chalcedon discussions and scholarship. His paper on post-modernism clarified my understanding of this apostacy.
A few years ago, there was a center in India that collected and published his works.

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Offline Kurillos

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Re: Greatest Orthodox authors/church fathers from Ethiopia, Eritrea, India?
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2019, 12:31:37 AM »
I have received rich Orthodox and Chrstian social and culture enlightenment from late Bishop Paulos Mar Gregorios. Before ordinations as priest and bishop, I believe he was V.C. Samuel. His writings on Christ's nature and EO & RC abuses at Chalcedon provided the first understandings of the Chalcedon controversies that clarified my understanding of and acceptance of Oriental Orthodox Christogy theology and faith. Bishop Gregorios was Secretary to Haille Selaisse, which enabled him to lead the organization of the fruitful Oriental/Chalcedon discussions and scholarship. His paper on post-modernism clarified my understanding of this apostacy.
A few years ago, there was a center in India that collected and published his works.

HG Paulose Mar Gregorios was known as Fr. Paul Varghese before being elevated to the episcopate. All the rest about him is true. In addition to Fr. VC. Samuel and Mar Gregorios, there was also HG Geevarghese Mar Osthathios. Mar Osthathios (bishop) was also a well-known theologian and contemporary of the other two.


- late Geevarghese Mar Ivanios (founder of the uniate Syro-Malankara Catholics): "Were the Syrian Christians Nestorians"


Jobin, just wondering - what was Mar Ivanios' conclusion?  ;D
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Offline jobin219

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Re: Greatest Orthodox authors/church fathers from Ethiopia, Eritrea, India?
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2019, 11:23:02 AM »

- late Geevarghese Mar Ivanios (founder of the uniate Syro-Malankara Catholics): "Were the Syrian Christians Nestorians"

Quote
Jobin, just wondering - what was Mar Ivanios' conclusion?  ;D

His exact words at the end were, "Thus from various evidences, internal, external and circumstantial, that the Syrian Church of Malabar could not have been anything but Jacobite, before the fifteenth century."

I have not come across anyone who specifically challenged the ideas presented in his work. I will admit of course that to outright deny the Nestorian presence in Malankara prior to the the Portuguese would be a complete denial of history; even the history book written by late Patriarch Ignatius Yac'ub III of blessed memory states that there was a Nestorian presence during certain periods. However from my own brief studies of available historical evidences, I find the notion by western authors (and Indian authors with their own particular biases) to paint the Malankara Church as nothing but Nestorian to be lazy at best. But I'm no historian haha.
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Re: Greatest Orthodox authors/church fathers from Ethiopia, Eritrea, India?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2019, 10:23:23 PM »
The Church Fathers wrote with Academic discipline.
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Offline Kurillos

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Re: Greatest Orthodox authors/church fathers from Ethiopia, Eritrea, India?
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2019, 03:48:01 AM »

- late Geevarghese Mar Ivanios (founder of the uniate Syro-Malankara Catholics): "Were the Syrian Christians Nestorians"

Quote
Jobin, just wondering - what was Mar Ivanios' conclusion?  ;D

His exact words at the end were, "Thus from various evidences, internal, external and circumstantial, that the Syrian Church of Malabar could not have been anything but Jacobite, before the fifteenth century."


Woahhh! No kidding? That book I must get my hands on.


- late Geevarghese Mar Ivanios (founder of the uniate Syro-Malankara Catholics): "Were the Syrian Christians Nestorians"

Quote
Jobin, just wondering - what was Mar Ivanios' conclusion?  ;D
I have not come across anyone who specifically challenged the ideas presented in his work. I will admit of course that to outright deny the Nestorian presence in Malankara prior to the the Portuguese would be a complete denial of history; even the history book written by late Patriarch Ignatius Yac'ub III of blessed memory states that there was a Nestorian presence during certain periods.

Yes, I agree. I think that our people, isolated as they were, really couldn't make out the difference. It must have been po-tae-toe-poh-tah-toh to them.


However from my own brief studies of available historical evidences, I find the notion by western authors (and Indian authors with their own particular biases) to paint the Malankara Church as nothing but Nestorian to be lazy at best. But I'm no historian haha.

Yes, everyone has their own biases. I've known even Marthomites to vigorously insist that Malankara was 'a Persian church', though why they do so, beats me. Schism related politics aside, I think that everyone should keep an open mind on the question. For instance, if Mar Sapor and Mar Proth were from Nineveh/Mar Mattai monastery, than that is an indicator that the Maphrianate in Babylon was also involved with Malankara. Even if technically E. Syrian, it would still be OO and not Church of the East.

Anyhow, since this is O/T, this is a good discussion to have on another thread.

Thanks for the info on Mar Ivanios - a very fascinating character himself.

It seems fairly easy to find writings of Coptic, Armenian, and Syriac church fathers and other spiritual writers.
However I must admit ignorance of any such authors (let alone where to find their writings).
Can you help me out with names, recommended writings and hopefully where to find them?


Nicholas, these three books - though they aren't written by 'church fathers', two are by an Armenian professor of theology and one is by an archbishop -  are available on Amazon :-

The Melody of Faith: Theology in an Orthodox Key and The Orthodox Reality: Culture, Theology, and Ethics in the Modern World, both by Vigen Guroian as well as Christology of the Oriental Orthodox Churches: Christology in the Tradition of the Armenian Apostolic Church by Mesrob K. Krikorian 

« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 03:52:52 AM by Kurillos »
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Re: Greatest Orthodox authors/church fathers from Ethiopia, Eritrea, India?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2019, 08:45:52 AM »

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Offline dhinuus

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Re: Greatest Orthodox authors/church fathers from Ethiopia, Eritrea, India?
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2019, 02:08:31 AM »

- late Geevarghese Mar Ivanios (founder of the uniate Syro-Malankara Catholics): "Were the Syrian Christians Nestorians"

Quote
Jobin, just wondering - what was Mar Ivanios' conclusion?  ;D

His exact words at the end were, "Thus from various evidences, internal, external and circumstantial, that the Syrian Church of Malabar could not have been anything but Jacobite, before the fifteenth century."


Woahhh! No kidding? That book I must get my hands on.


Here is a scanned copy of the said book: 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3Nhs333DL7JT0VjSDhIZ25pOFpTbzB6YllpVVZNbnh6Mnpr/view?usp=sharing
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