Author Topic: OCU establishes parish in Slovenia  (Read 671 times)

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Offline Iconodule

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OCU establishes parish in Slovenia
« on: April 03, 2019, 10:00:27 AM »
Quote
The Orthodox Church of Ukraine (OCU) began its operations in Slovenia on March 31, the Ukrainian embassy to this country reports, adding that the first Holy Liturgy took place in the church of Saint Urh.

https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/orthodox-church-of-ukraine-opens-in-slovenia.html

Call to mind that the tomos issued to the OCU by the Ecumenical Patriarchate explicitly restricts the OCU to the state of Ukraine:

Quote
Moreover, we recognize and declare this Autocephalous Church, established within the boundaries of the sovereign territory of Ukraine by means of this signed Patriarchal and Synodal Tomos, as our spiritual daughter, and recommend that all Orthodox Churches throughout the world acknowledge and commemorate it by the name “Most Holy Church of Ukraine” with its see in the historic city of Kyiv, without being henceforth entitled to establish bishops or found extraterritorial altars in regions already lawfully dependent on the Ecumenical Throne, which bears canonical competence over the Diaspora, but instead restricting its proper jurisdiction within the territories of the State of Ukraine.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: OCU establishes parish in Slovenia
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2019, 10:29:18 AM »

This is going to be a problem.

The Tomos specifically forbids this.

However, even here in the States, you will find that the former KP parishes are adamant about being part of the OCU.

...and just so you realize...it is not the OCU purposefully heading to foreign lands to establish parishes.  These were established KP parishes.
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Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: OCU establishes parish in Slovenia
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2019, 10:32:39 AM »
What are we going to do, revoke their autocephaly?  :P
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: OCU establishes parish in Slovenia
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2019, 01:00:28 PM »
Quote
The Orthodox Church of Ukraine (OCU) began its operations in Slovenia on March 31, the Ukrainian embassy to this country reports, adding that the first Holy Liturgy took place in the church of Saint Urh.

https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/orthodox-church-of-ukraine-opens-in-slovenia.html

Call to mind that the tomos issued to the OCU by the Ecumenical Patriarchate explicitly restricts the OCU to the state of Ukraine:

Quote
Moreover, we recognize and declare this Autocephalous Church, established within the boundaries of the sovereign territory of Ukraine by means of this signed Patriarchal and Synodal Tomos, as our spiritual daughter, and recommend that all Orthodox Churches throughout the world acknowledge and commemorate it by the name “Most Holy Church of Ukraine” with its see in the historic city of Kyiv, without being henceforth entitled to establish bishops or found extraterritorial altars in regions already lawfully dependent on the Ecumenical Throne, which bears canonical competence over the Diaspora, but instead restricting its proper jurisdiction within the territories of the State of Ukraine.
This is a parish for the embassy.  Nothing of note here.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2019, 01:01:52 PM by Deacon Lance »
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: OCU establishes parish in Slovenia
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2019, 01:13:37 PM »
Is the church actually on the embassy grounds?
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Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: OCU establishes parish in Slovenia
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2019, 07:44:58 PM »
And now here are the details issued to discount the info in the Russian press:

Quote
The Directorate of External Church Relations of Autocephalous Church of Ukraine gave clarifications ...information that has come to light concerning the Divine Liturgy officiated by the Archpriest Vasily Kuchirka in the Catholic Church of St. Urkha in Slovenia, “has no ground in reality.”
As reported, “the Orthodox Church of Ukraine has not established and does not intend to establish its own parish on the territory of Slovenia.
The Divine Liturgy was performed at the request of the Ukrainian diplomats to Slovenia in a Roman Catholic Church which was kindly offered for this Divine Liturgy by the local Roman Catholic Metropolis.
For this reason Roman Catholic priest Alesh Tomašević attended but did not concelebrate the Liturgy.

And commenting on the Russian press article:
Quote
It should be emphasized that the alleged concern of Moscow-related SMEs regarding compliance with the terms of the Tomos, which is not recognized by Moscow, and the rules, which are regularly violated, provokes great derision, especially when this occurs on April’s Fool Day”. 

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: OCU establishes parish in Slovenia
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2019, 10:33:33 PM »
Is the church actually on the embassy grounds?
Does it matter if it is to serve embassy staff?  I wouldn’t think every embassy has room for a chapel/church.
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: OCU establishes parish in Slovenia
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2019, 10:48:38 PM »
Is the church actually on the embassy grounds?
Does it matter if it is to serve embassy staff?  I wouldn’t think every embassy has room for a chapel/church.

I believe that Embassies proper, that is, diplomatic missions, can obtain extraterritoriality for more than just the Chancery or the Residence; IIRC this existed for some Russian and US facilities that were closed in the deterioration of relations, and the Holy See has extraterritorial status for not just the Vatican City, but the other three major basillicas, the Lateran palace, the Papal summer retreat complex where His Holiness Benedict XVI resides, and so on.  If two countries have a good relationship, its generally possible for the diplomatic mission to expand the site of its chancery or acquire additional land with extraterritorial status.  And of course, if two countries have a falling out, there is no embassy in the world with a perimeter fence tall enough to preserve its extraterritorial status.

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Mores antiqui obtineant.
The ancient ways shall prevail.

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Offline Orest

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Re: OCU establishes parish in Slovenia
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2019, 11:43:00 AM »
And now here are the details issued to discount the info in the Russian press:

Quote
The Directorate of External Church Relations of Autocephalous Church of Ukraine gave clarifications ...information that has come to light concerning the Divine Liturgy officiated by the Archpriest Vasily Kuchirka in the Catholic Church of St. Urkha in Slovenia, “has no ground in reality.”
As reported, “the Orthodox Church of Ukraine has not established and does not intend to establish its own parish on the territory of Slovenia.
The Divine Liturgy was performed at the request of the Ukrainian diplomats to Slovenia in a Roman Catholic Church which was kindly offered for this Divine Liturgy by the local Roman Catholic Metropolis.
For this reason Roman Catholic priest Alesh Tomašević attended but did not concelebrate the Liturgy.

And commenting on the Russian press article:
Quote
It should be emphasized that the alleged concern of Moscow-related SMEs regarding compliance with the terms of the Tomos, which is not recognized by Moscow, and the rules, which are regularly violated, provokes great derision, especially when this occurs on April’s Fool Day”. 

You forgot to post the link to the article: https://www.romfea.news/autocephalous-church-of-ukraine-the-alleged-concern-of-media-provokes-great-derision/

And I doubt the misinformation was posted as an April fool's joke. 

Offline Iconodule

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Re: OCU establishes parish in Slovenia
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2019, 12:00:47 PM »
My mistake in failing to read the fine print- I had thought the Kyiv Post was reporting this but I see their source was Interfax.
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

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Offline Orest

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Re: OCU establishes parish in Slovenia
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2019, 12:05:53 PM »
My mistake in failing to read the fine print- I had thought the Kyiv Post was reporting this but I see their source was Interfax.

That's OK, we all make mistakes.  I like reading Paul Steeves web site.  He provides good translations from various Russian sources.  I notice that RISU for example doesn't always provide their sources so you can fact check.  But Steeves always does.
http://arch.oucs.ox.ac.uk/detail/45475/index.html

Offline WPM

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Re: OCU establishes parish in Slovenia
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2019, 02:55:29 PM »

This is going to be a problem.

The Tomos specifically forbids this.

However, even here in the States, you will find that the former KP parishes are adamant about being part of the OCU.

...and just so you realize...it is not the OCU purposefully heading to foreign lands to establish parishes.  These were established KP parishes.

I'm pretty sure the Ukrainian Tomos doesn't apply.
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