Author Topic: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May  (Read 1994 times)

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Offline orthoreader

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2019, 05:12:35 PM »
No one in humanity is pure. We all come from one planet, and though we look different, the gene pool is not that big.

Your ideals of 'purity' are ridiculous.
Not ridiculous but you are correct.  The argument is over history though.

Well in that case, Iconodule's civilization (China) is a lot older than the ancient land of the pure boy lovers :p

Also, I think your Spartan ancestors would be a bit perturbed at the way Athenian heritage bulldozed their own and made Doric Greek into a languishing local dialect.
Greek was the only civilized language used in the area. Dialects aren't languages.

You know the main reason the Greeks despised the Macedonians was two fold: 1.) Macedonians didn't like to water down their wine 2.) Macedonians like to take brides from foreign lands. (not sure if it was the foreign lands or the brides part that bugged them?)
How did they travel? Since they were land locked?

How did Ancient Macedonians travel? I think you know this.

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2019, 05:15:41 PM »
No one in humanity is pure. We all come from one planet, and though we look different, the gene pool is not that big.

Your ideals of 'purity' are ridiculous.
Not ridiculous but you are correct.  The argument is over history though.

Partly. It's also with the Ethnic Macedonians of Northern Greece who via the Prespa Accord have been left high and dry by the Macedonian gov't. Now Greece can just claim they are misguided Bulgarians or half whited-Greeks who picked up a Slavic language somewhere.
Im not aware of any greek macedonians that speak Bulgarian.  Are you ok son?

OF course you aren't Because they're Ethnic Macedonians who speak the Macedonian language. The rest of the people who live in Northern Greece are implants from Asia Minor who were massively transplanted there in the 1920's. Of course "we wall know that those implants are Greek."
What a joke. Most greeces from asia minor were transferred to Athens.  The local cities were even renamed for them to feel more at home.

Hey. It's best we just let bygones. The Greeks won. The Prespa Accord is complete capitulation by Macedonia. As it stands, the accord states that there is no such thing as an ethnic Macedonian only a Macedonian citizen. Greece also will have the ability to censor all text books in Macedonia along with foreign documents that may irritate Greek sensibilities as Macedonia tries to move forward towards the EU.

It doesn't matter what the truth really is, or what we think at this point. I just want the Macedonians to be brought into communion the right way. That's all I want at this point.
A lot of Greece macedonians think the samething. That there government capitulated.  Im glad its over personally.  The area needs closer ties and the region as a whole will be much better off with some sort of union. 

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2019, 05:23:13 PM »
Dialects aren't languages.

Tell that to Moldova (or Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, or Ukraine, or Austria, or the Gullah of South Carolina, or...) lol. A dialect is just a language without an army behind it.

My point is that you aren't quite as pure as you think you are, even if that were a valid concept.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline orthoreader

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2019, 05:27:16 PM »
No one in humanity is pure. We all come from one planet, and though we look different, the gene pool is not that big.

Your ideals of 'purity' are ridiculous.
Not ridiculous but you are correct.  The argument is over history though.

Partly. It's also with the Ethnic Macedonians of Northern Greece who via the Prespa Accord have been left high and dry by the Macedonian gov't. Now Greece can just claim they are misguided Bulgarians or half whited-Greeks who picked up a Slavic language somewhere.
Im not aware of any greek macedonians that speak Bulgarian.  Are you ok son?

OF course you aren't Because they're Ethnic Macedonians who speak the Macedonian language. The rest of the people who live in Northern Greece are implants from Asia Minor who were massively transplanted there in the 1920's. Of course "we wall know that those implants are Greek."
What a joke. Most greeces from asia minor were transferred to Athens.  The local cities were even renamed for them to feel more at home.

Hey. It's best we just let bygones. The Greeks won. The Prespa Accord is complete capitulation by Macedonia. As it stands, the accord states that there is no such thing as an ethnic Macedonian only a Macedonian citizen. Greece also will have the ability to censor all text books in Macedonia along with foreign documents that may irritate Greek sensibilities as Macedonia tries to move forward towards the EU.

It doesn't matter what the truth really is, or what we think at this point. I just want the Macedonians to be brought into communion the right way. That's all I want at this point.
A lot of Greece macedonians think the samething. That there government capitulated.  Im glad its over personally.  The area needs closer ties and the region as a whole will be much better off with some sort of union.

Well. That seems to be the going line, at least, in Tspiras' head. He was quick to label the Aegean Macedonians (Slavic speakers) as ethnically Greek or misguided Greeks. The idea seems to be to remove all notion of a unique ethnic Macedonian ID and then split the republic between Greece (maybe Bulgaria) and the rest go to Albania. Essentially, that's what the Prespa Accord does. There is some indication that both Macedonia's first President, Gligorov and the Greek President at that time were in secret talks for Macedonia to leave Yugoslavia and join Greece as long as there was a way to keep a separate Macedonian identity.

It's a very disturbing thing to watch the land of your father and mother dismantled and slowly erased like this. But it wouldn't be the first time in history. There is no true justice in this life. Our hope is in Christ.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 05:31:28 PM by orthoreader »

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2019, 05:30:12 PM »
What does he want? All peoples should be gracious!

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2019, 05:44:55 PM »
Dialects aren't languages.

Tell that to Moldova (or Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, or Ukraine, or Austria, or the Gullah of South Carolina, or...) lol. A dialect is just a language without an army behind it.

My point is that you aren't quite as pure as you think you are, even if that were a valid concept.
Ill accept that because there is some truth behind it. You could go farther though, and break it down to the individual too.
Unification is an ideology and those that don't believe in it also don't have a right to a cult like following of a Christian saviour.
I'm not comfortable being a number either.

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2019, 05:53:13 PM »
No one in humanity is pure. We all come from one planet, and though we look different, the gene pool is not that big.

Your ideals of 'purity' are ridiculous.
Not ridiculous but you are correct.  The argument is over history though.

Partly. It's also with the Ethnic Macedonians of Northern Greece who via the Prespa Accord have been left high and dry by the Macedonian gov't. Now Greece can just claim they are misguided Bulgarians or half whited-Greeks who picked up a Slavic language somewhere.
Im not aware of any greek macedonians that speak Bulgarian.  Are you ok son?

OF course you aren't Because they're Ethnic Macedonians who speak the Macedonian language. The rest of the people who live in Northern Greece are implants from Asia Minor who were massively transplanted there in the 1920's. Of course "we wall know that those implants are Greek."
What a joke. Most greeces from asia minor were transferred to Athens.  The local cities were even renamed for them to feel more at home.

Hey. It's best we just let bygones. The Greeks won. The Prespa Accord is complete capitulation by Macedonia. As it stands, the accord states that there is no such thing as an ethnic Macedonian only a Macedonian citizen. Greece also will have the ability to censor all text books in Macedonia along with foreign documents that may irritate Greek sensibilities as Macedonia tries to move forward towards the EU.

It doesn't matter what the truth really is, or what we think at this point. I just want the Macedonians to be brought into communion the right way. That's all I want at this point.
A lot of Greece macedonians think the samething. That there government capitulated.  Im glad its over personally.  The area needs closer ties and the region as a whole will be much better off with some sort of union.

Well. That seems to be the going line, at least, in Tspiras' head. He was quick to label the Aegean Macedonians (Slavic speakers) as ethnically Greek or misguided Greeks. The idea seems to be to remove all notion of a unique ethnic Macedonian ID and then split the republic between Greece (maybe Bulgaria) and the rest go to Albania. Essentially, that's what the Prespa Accord does. There is some indication that both Macedonia's first President, Gligorov and the Greek President at that time were in secret talks for Macedonia to leave Yugoslavia and join Greece as long as there was a way to keep a separate Macedonian identity.

It's a very disturbing thing to watch the land of your father and mother dismantled and slowly erased like this. But it wouldn't be the first time in history. There is no true justice in this life. Our hope is in Christ.
Well, Macedonians were historically a greek speaking people and not a slavic speaking people.  Language proceeds nationalism.  That is why we are called the hellenic republic. Inclusion of hellenic speakers.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2019, 05:57:27 PM »
Dialects aren't languages.

Tell that to Moldova (or Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, or Ukraine, or Austria, or the Gullah of South Carolina, or...) lol. A dialect is just a language without an army behind it.

My point is that you aren't quite as pure as you think you are, even if that were a valid concept.
Ill accept that because there is some truth behind it. You could go farther though, and break it down to the individual too.
Unification is an ideology and those that don't believe in it also don't have a right to a cult like following of a Christian saviour.
I'm not comfortable being a number either.

The difference is that Nationalism is sifting sand and Christ is a Rock. Can't really compare the two.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #53 on: March 22, 2019, 05:58:48 PM »
No one in humanity is pure. We all come from one planet, and though we look different, the gene pool is not that big.

Your ideals of 'purity' are ridiculous.
Not ridiculous but you are correct.  The argument is over history though.

Partly. It's also with the Ethnic Macedonians of Northern Greece who via the Prespa Accord have been left high and dry by the Macedonian gov't. Now Greece can just claim they are misguided Bulgarians or half whited-Greeks who picked up a Slavic language somewhere.
Im not aware of any greek macedonians that speak Bulgarian.  Are you ok son?

OF course you aren't Because they're Ethnic Macedonians who speak the Macedonian language. The rest of the people who live in Northern Greece are implants from Asia Minor who were massively transplanted there in the 1920's. Of course "we wall know that those implants are Greek."
What a joke. Most greeces from asia minor were transferred to Athens.  The local cities were even renamed for them to feel more at home.

Hey. It's best we just let bygones. The Greeks won. The Prespa Accord is complete capitulation by Macedonia. As it stands, the accord states that there is no such thing as an ethnic Macedonian only a Macedonian citizen. Greece also will have the ability to censor all text books in Macedonia along with foreign documents that may irritate Greek sensibilities as Macedonia tries to move forward towards the EU.

It doesn't matter what the truth really is, or what we think at this point. I just want the Macedonians to be brought into communion the right way. That's all I want at this point.
A lot of Greece macedonians think the samething. That there government capitulated.  Im glad its over personally.  The area needs closer ties and the region as a whole will be much better off with some sort of union.

Well. That seems to be the going line, at least, in Tspiras' head. He was quick to label the Aegean Macedonians (Slavic speakers) as ethnically Greek or misguided Greeks. The idea seems to be to remove all notion of a unique ethnic Macedonian ID and then split the republic between Greece (maybe Bulgaria) and the rest go to Albania. Essentially, that's what the Prespa Accord does. There is some indication that both Macedonia's first President, Gligorov and the Greek President at that time were in secret talks for Macedonia to leave Yugoslavia and join Greece as long as there was a way to keep a separate Macedonian identity.

It's a very disturbing thing to watch the land of your father and mother dismantled and slowly erased like this. But it wouldn't be the first time in history. There is no true justice in this life. Our hope is in Christ.

Sounds like a cultural genocide almost as bad as what Turkey continues to do to Armenians. I wonder where the international outrage is...
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #54 on: March 22, 2019, 05:59:13 PM »
Dialects aren't languages.

Tell that to Moldova (or Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, or Ukraine, or Austria, or the Gullah of South Carolina, or...) lol. A dialect is just a language without an army behind it.

My point is that you aren't quite as pure as you think you are, even if that were a valid concept.
Ill accept that because there is some truth behind it. You could go farther though, and break it down to the individual too.
Unification is an ideology and those that don't believe in it also don't have a right to a cult like following of a Christian saviour.
I'm not comfortable being a number either.

The difference is that Nationalism is sifting sand and Christ is a Rock. Can't really compare the two.
For historical purposes it will do just fine.😉

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #55 on: March 22, 2019, 06:10:38 PM »
Dialects aren't languages.

Tell that to Moldova (or Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, or Ukraine, or Austria, or the Gullah of South Carolina, or...) lol. A dialect is just a language without an army behind it.

My point is that you aren't quite as pure as you think you are, even if that were a valid concept.
Ill accept that because there is some truth behind it. You could go farther though, and break it down to the individual too.
Unification is an ideology and those that don't believe in it also don't have a right to a cult like following of a Christian saviour.
I'm not comfortable being a number either.

The difference is that Nationalism is sifting sand and Christ is a Rock. Can't really compare the two.
For historical purposes it will do just fine.😉

So are you from Σπάρτα or Σπάρτη?

Why make a conscious effort to unify so boldly around something less exact and secure than Christ, especially when it just causes conflicts? We have enough strife merely in terms of religion.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2019, 06:14:02 PM by Volnutt »
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #56 on: March 22, 2019, 06:20:00 PM »
Dialects aren't languages.

Tell that to Moldova (or Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, or Ukraine, or Austria, or the Gullah of South Carolina, or...) lol. A dialect is just a language without an army behind it.

My point is that you aren't quite as pure as you think you are, even if that were a valid concept.
Ill accept that because there is some truth behind it. You could go farther though, and break it down to the individual too.
Unification is an ideology and those that don't believe in it also don't have a right to a cult like following of a Christian saviour.
I'm not comfortable being a number either.

The difference is that Nationalism is sifting sand and Christ is a Rock. Can't really compare the two.
For historical purposes it will do just fine.😉

So are you from Σπάρτα or Σπάρτη?

Why make a conscious effort to unify so boldly around something less exact and secure than Christ, especially when it just causes conflicts? We have enough strife merely in terms of religion.
Did Christ ask the leper what he is before healing him? What difference does it make. I can belong to two clubs maybe even more. Definitely more.  Christ isn't asking you to change and be only Christian.  He is asking to incorporate his being into you. You are free to be what ever pleases you.

Offline orthoreader

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #57 on: March 22, 2019, 06:20:23 PM »
No one in humanity is pure. We all come from one planet, and though we look different, the gene pool is not that big.

Your ideals of 'purity' are ridiculous.
Not ridiculous but you are correct.  The argument is over history though.

Partly. It's also with the Ethnic Macedonians of Northern Greece who via the Prespa Accord have been left high and dry by the Macedonian gov't. Now Greece can just claim they are misguided Bulgarians or half whited-Greeks who picked up a Slavic language somewhere.
Im not aware of any greek macedonians that speak Bulgarian.  Are you ok son?

OF course you aren't Because they're Ethnic Macedonians who speak the Macedonian language. The rest of the people who live in Northern Greece are implants from Asia Minor who were massively transplanted there in the 1920's. Of course "we wall know that those implants are Greek."
What a joke. Most greeces from asia minor were transferred to Athens.  The local cities were even renamed for them to feel more at home.

Hey. It's best we just let bygones. The Greeks won. The Prespa Accord is complete capitulation by Macedonia. As it stands, the accord states that there is no such thing as an ethnic Macedonian only a Macedonian citizen. Greece also will have the ability to censor all text books in Macedonia along with foreign documents that may irritate Greek sensibilities as Macedonia tries to move forward towards the EU.

It doesn't matter what the truth really is, or what we think at this point. I just want the Macedonians to be brought into communion the right way. That's all I want at this point.
A lot of Greece macedonians think the samething. That there government capitulated.  Im glad its over personally.  The area needs closer ties and the region as a whole will be much better off with some sort of union.

Well. That seems to be the going line, at least, in Tspiras' head. He was quick to label the Aegean Macedonians (Slavic speakers) as ethnically Greek or misguided Greeks. The idea seems to be to remove all notion of a unique ethnic Macedonian ID and then split the republic between Greece (maybe Bulgaria) and the rest go to Albania. Essentially, that's what the Prespa Accord does. There is some indication that both Macedonia's first President, Gligorov and the Greek President at that time were in secret talks for Macedonia to leave Yugoslavia and join Greece as long as there was a way to keep a separate Macedonian identity.

It's a very disturbing thing to watch the land of your father and mother dismantled and slowly erased like this. But it wouldn't be the first time in history. There is no true justice in this life. Our hope is in Christ.

Sounds like a cultural genocide almost as bad as what Turkey continues to do to Armenians. I wonder where the international outrage is...

There is some outrage here or there. But the big players are good with it. Greece is a much bigger and important factor in the region. Worldly justice is subjective and correlates with interests.
For the most part, both the US and Russia pay a lot of lip service to the Macedonians, but it better suits them that we'd not exist, at least, as is.

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #58 on: March 22, 2019, 06:30:20 PM »
No one in humanity is pure. We all come from one planet, and though we look different, the gene pool is not that big.

Your ideals of 'purity' are ridiculous.
Not ridiculous but you are correct.  The argument is over history though.

Partly. It's also with the Ethnic Macedonians of Northern Greece who via the Prespa Accord have been left high and dry by the Macedonian gov't. Now Greece can just claim they are misguided Bulgarians or half whited-Greeks who picked up a Slavic language somewhere.
Im not aware of any greek macedonians that speak Bulgarian.  Are you ok son?

OF course you aren't Because they're Ethnic Macedonians who speak the Macedonian language. The rest of the people who live in Northern Greece are implants from Asia Minor who were massively transplanted there in the 1920's. Of course "we wall know that those implants are Greek."
What a joke. Most greeces from asia minor were transferred to Athens.  The local cities were even renamed for them to feel more at home.

Hey. It's best we just let bygones. The Greeks won. The Prespa Accord is complete capitulation by Macedonia. As it stands, the accord states that there is no such thing as an ethnic Macedonian only a Macedonian citizen. Greece also will have the ability to censor all text books in Macedonia along with foreign documents that may irritate Greek sensibilities as Macedonia tries to move forward towards the EU.

It doesn't matter what the truth really is, or what we think at this point. I just want the Macedonians to be brought into communion the right way. That's all I want at this point.
A lot of Greece macedonians think the samething. That there government capitulated.  Im glad its over personally.  The area needs closer ties and the region as a whole will be much better off with some sort of union.

Well. That seems to be the going line, at least, in Tspiras' head. He was quick to label the Aegean Macedonians (Slavic speakers) as ethnically Greek or misguided Greeks. The idea seems to be to remove all notion of a unique ethnic Macedonian ID and then split the republic between Greece (maybe Bulgaria) and the rest go to Albania. Essentially, that's what the Prespa Accord does. There is some indication that both Macedonia's first President, Gligorov and the Greek President at that time were in secret talks for Macedonia to leave Yugoslavia and join Greece as long as there was a way to keep a separate Macedonian identity.

It's a very disturbing thing to watch the land of your father and mother dismantled and slowly erased like this. But it wouldn't be the first time in history. There is no true justice in this life. Our hope is in Christ.

Sounds like a cultural genocide almost as bad as what Turkey continues to do to Armenians. I wonder where the international outrage is...

There is some outrage here or there. But the big players are good with it. Greece is a much bigger and important factor in the region. Worldly justice is subjective and correlates with interests.
For the most part, both the US and Russia pay a lot of lip service to the Macedonians, but it better suits them that we'd not exist, at least, as is.
Dude, you were acknowledged as an independent.  What you do with that going forward matters.

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #59 on: March 22, 2019, 06:34:56 PM »
No one in humanity is pure. We all come from one planet, and though we look different, the gene pool is not that big.

Your ideals of 'purity' are ridiculous.
Not ridiculous but you are correct.  The argument is over history though.

Partly. It's also with the Ethnic Macedonians of Northern Greece who via the Prespa Accord have been left high and dry by the Macedonian gov't. Now Greece can just claim they are misguided Bulgarians or half whited-Greeks who picked up a Slavic language somewhere.
Im not aware of any greek macedonians that speak Bulgarian.  Are you ok son?

OF course you aren't Because they're Ethnic Macedonians who speak the Macedonian language. The rest of the people who live in Northern Greece are implants from Asia Minor who were massively transplanted there in the 1920's. Of course "we wall know that those implants are Greek."
What a joke. Most greeces from asia minor were transferred to Athens.  The local cities were even renamed for them to feel more at home.

Hey. It's best we just let bygones. The Greeks won. The Prespa Accord is complete capitulation by Macedonia. As it stands, the accord states that there is no such thing as an ethnic Macedonian only a Macedonian citizen. Greece also will have the ability to censor all text books in Macedonia along with foreign documents that may irritate Greek sensibilities as Macedonia tries to move forward towards the EU.

It doesn't matter what the truth really is, or what we think at this point. I just want the Macedonians to be brought into communion the right way. That's all I want at this point.
A lot of Greece macedonians think the samething. That there government capitulated.  Im glad its over personally.  The area needs closer ties and the region as a whole will be much better off with some sort of union.

Well. That seems to be the going line, at least, in Tspiras' head. He was quick to label the Aegean Macedonians (Slavic speakers) as ethnically Greek or misguided Greeks. The idea seems to be to remove all notion of a unique ethnic Macedonian ID and then split the republic between Greece (maybe Bulgaria) and the rest go to Albania. Essentially, that's what the Prespa Accord does. There is some indication that both Macedonia's first President, Gligorov and the Greek President at that time were in secret talks for Macedonia to leave Yugoslavia and join Greece as long as there was a way to keep a separate Macedonian identity.

It's a very disturbing thing to watch the land of your father and mother dismantled and slowly erased like this. But it wouldn't be the first time in history. There is no true justice in this life. Our hope is in Christ.

Sounds like a cultural genocide almost as bad as what Turkey continues to do to Armenians. I wonder where the international outrage is...

There is some outrage here or there. But the big players are good with it. Greece is a much bigger and important factor in the region. Worldly justice is subjective and correlates with interests.
For the most part, both the US and Russia pay a lot of lip service to the Macedonians, but it better suits them that we'd not exist, at least, as is.
Dude, you were acknowledged as an independent.  What you do with that going forward matters.

That sword cuts both ways.
This post gave me autism.

Since when has a Hierarch done anything for you? . . .

Apparently you can get the Juice or Power from a certain Icon.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2019, 06:36:59 PM »
Dialects aren't languages.

Tell that to Moldova (or Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, or Ukraine, or Austria, or the Gullah of South Carolina, or...) lol. A dialect is just a language without an army behind it.

My point is that you aren't quite as pure as you think you are, even if that were a valid concept.
Ill accept that because there is some truth behind it. You could go farther though, and break it down to the individual too.
Unification is an ideology and those that don't believe in it also don't have a right to a cult like following of a Christian saviour.
I'm not comfortable being a number either.

The difference is that Nationalism is sifting sand and Christ is a Rock. Can't really compare the two.
For historical purposes it will do just fine.😉

So are you from Σπάρτα or Σπάρτη?

Why make a conscious effort to unify so boldly around something less exact and secure than Christ, especially when it just causes conflicts? We have enough strife merely in terms of religion.
Did Christ ask the leper what he is before healing him? What difference does it make. I can belong to two clubs maybe even more. Definitely more.  Christ isn't asking you to change and be only Christian.  He is asking to incorporate his being into you. You are free to be what ever pleases you.

It's not about the club. It's not even about enjoying the club and being proud of it. It's about the obsession with the club (as though it could even remotely compare to your identity as a Christian) and trying to gatekeep others out of the club as though their membership threatens yours. That's just the slightly more respectable version of middle aged Queen fans complaining about the Bohemian Rhapsody movie.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #61 on: March 22, 2019, 06:55:03 PM »
Dialects aren't languages.

Tell that to Moldova (or Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, or Ukraine, or Austria, or the Gullah of South Carolina, or...) lol. A dialect is just a language without an army behind it.

My point is that you aren't quite as pure as you think you are, even if that were a valid concept.
Ill accept that because there is some truth behind it. You could go farther though, and break it down to the individual too.
Unification is an ideology and those that don't believe in it also don't have a right to a cult like following of a Christian saviour.
I'm not comfortable being a number either.

The difference is that Nationalism is sifting sand and Christ is a Rock. Can't really compare the two.
For historical purposes it will do just fine.😉

So are you from Σπάρτα or Σπάρτη?

Why make a conscious effort to unify so boldly around something less exact and secure than Christ, especially when it just causes conflicts? We have enough strife merely in terms of religion.
Did Christ ask the leper what he is before healing him? What difference does it make. I can belong to two clubs maybe even more. Definitely more.  Christ isn't asking you to change and be only Christian.  He is asking to incorporate his being into you. You are free to be what ever pleases you.

It's not about the club. It's not even about enjoying the club and being proud of it. It's about the obsession with the club (as though it could even remotely compare to your identity as a Christian) and trying to gatekeep others out of the club as though their membership threatens yours. That's just the slightly more respectable version of middle aged Queen fans complaining about the Bohemian Rhapsody movie.
You watch to many movies.  There is absolutely no reason why I shouldn't enjoy being a greek. Do i think Im better than others. Truth: sometimes.  Other times i'm made to be a fool by a teenager.  So in the end we are all pretty equal.  But, don't try to take away a historical reality by demeaning current greeks. That is very unfair.  You might still be swinging from ropes if the enlightenment didn't come through us.

Offline orthoreader

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #62 on: March 22, 2019, 07:01:16 PM »
We should cut this thread. I have a knack for leading us in down this path. Please accept my apologies.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #63 on: March 22, 2019, 07:08:16 PM »
Dialects aren't languages.

Tell that to Moldova (or Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, or Ukraine, or Austria, or the Gullah of South Carolina, or...) lol. A dialect is just a language without an army behind it.

My point is that you aren't quite as pure as you think you are, even if that were a valid concept.
Ill accept that because there is some truth behind it. You could go farther though, and break it down to the individual too.
Unification is an ideology and those that don't believe in it also don't have a right to a cult like following of a Christian saviour.
I'm not comfortable being a number either.

The difference is that Nationalism is sifting sand and Christ is a Rock. Can't really compare the two.
For historical purposes it will do just fine.😉

So are you from Σπάρτα or Σπάρτη?

Why make a conscious effort to unify so boldly around something less exact and secure than Christ, especially when it just causes conflicts? We have enough strife merely in terms of religion.
Did Christ ask the leper what he is before healing him? What difference does it make. I can belong to two clubs maybe even more. Definitely more.  Christ isn't asking you to change and be only Christian.  He is asking to incorporate his being into you. You are free to be what ever pleases you.

It's not about the club. It's not even about enjoying the club and being proud of it. It's about the obsession with the club (as though it could even remotely compare to your identity as a Christian) and trying to gatekeep others out of the club as though their membership threatens yours. That's just the slightly more respectable version of middle aged Queen fans complaining about the Bohemian Rhapsody movie.
You watch to many movies.  There is absolutely no reason why I shouldn't enjoy being a greek.
Did I say you couldn't?

Do i think Im better than others. Truth: sometimes.  Other times i'm made to be a fool by a teenager.  So in the end we are all pretty equal.

Well then physician heal thyself before telling others to repent. "There is neither Jew nor Greek..."

But, don't try to take away a historical reality by demeaning current greeks. That is very unfair.

I'm not demeaning, I'm just pointing out real nuances. The fact is, nobody's ethnic identity is a "pure" monolith, especially not to the extent that it justifies calling others "half-breeds." That's just gross.

Also, your politicians and loudmouths are doing a good job of demeaning you without any outside help at all. Maybe stop cheerleading their efforts in doing so?

You might still be swinging from ropes if the enlightenment didn't come through us.

Says I watch too many movies. Very nearly quotes the dad from My Big Greek Wedding. *slow clap*

Also, your racism has been answered in other threads. Crap like this is why I'm not letting you play the "let's just each do our own thing, man!" card.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2019, 07:08:33 PM »
We should cut this thread. I have a knack for leading us in down this path. Please accept my apologies.
Dont worry about it. I don't need your apologies.  Just work together for a better future.  Your people as well as mine need help. We are neighbors that can benefit from each other. I truthfully consider you as a brother.  Don't let politics get in the way of a peaceful relationship.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #65 on: March 22, 2019, 07:09:53 PM »
We should cut this thread. I have a knack for leading us in down this path. Please accept my apologies.

It's not your fault. Tzimis is the Candlejack of ethnocentrism. This thread was bound to deteriorate eventually.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #66 on: March 22, 2019, 07:21:09 PM »
Dialects aren't languages.

Tell that to Moldova (or Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, or Ukraine, or Austria, or the Gullah of South Carolina, or...) lol. A dialect is just a language without an army behind it.

My point is that you aren't quite as pure as you think you are, even if that were a valid concept.
Ill accept that because there is some truth behind it. You could go farther though, and break it down to the individual too.
Unification is an ideology and those that don't believe in it also don't have a right to a cult like following of a Christian saviour.
I'm not comfortable being a number either.

The difference is that Nationalism is sifting sand and Christ is a Rock. Can't really compare the two.
For historical purposes it will do just fine.😉

So are you from Σπάρτα or Σπάρτη?

Why make a conscious effort to unify so boldly around something less exact and secure than Christ, especially when it just causes conflicts? We have enough strife merely in terms of religion.
Did Christ ask the leper what he is before healing him? What difference does it make. I can belong to two clubs maybe even more. Definitely more.  Christ isn't asking you to change and be only Christian.  He is asking to incorporate his being into you. You are free to be what ever pleases you.

It's not about the club. It's not even about enjoying the club and being proud of it. It's about the obsession with the club (as though it could even remotely compare to your identity as a Christian) and trying to gatekeep others out of the club as though their membership threatens yours. That's just the slightly more respectable version of middle aged Queen fans complaining about the Bohemian Rhapsody movie.
You watch to many movies.  There is absolutely no reason why I shouldn't enjoy being a greek.
Did I say you couldn't?

Do i think Im better than others. Truth: sometimes.  Other times i'm made to be a fool by a teenager.  So in the end we are all pretty equal.

Well then physician heal thyself before telling others to repent. "There is neither Jew nor Greek..."

But, don't try to take away a historical reality by demeaning current greeks. That is very unfair.

I'm not demeaning, I'm just pointing out real nuances. The fact is, nobody's ethnic identity is a "pure" monolith, especially not to the extent that it justifies calling others "half-breeds." That's just gross.

Also, your politicians and loudmouths are doing a good job of demeaning you without any outside help at all. Maybe stop cheerleading their efforts in doing so?

You might still be swinging from ropes if the enlightenment didn't come through us.

Says I watch too many movies. Very nearly quotes the dad from My Big Greek Wedding. *slow clap*

Also, your racism has been answered in other threads. Crap like this is why I'm not letting you play the "let's just each do our own thing, man!" card.
Your just an eccentric that always needs to be correct to fill your ego.
There are truths. Accept it. You didn't write history, you just entered it so many years ago. Could you please account for your accomplishments?  Since we are talking about accomplishments it seems fitting you present yours . So we can judge if we should listen to your rant or not. I mean, who brought you here as an authority on matters you probably know little of. Your an outsider looking in. Same with others that think they have an "opinion " not having lived it.
Territorial claims have a large part in politics.  If you don't understand it than stay out of the discussion.

Offline orthoreader

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #67 on: March 22, 2019, 08:45:18 PM »
We should cut this thread. I have a knack for leading us in down this path. Please accept my apologies.
Dont worry about it. I don't need your apologies.  Just work together for a better future.  Your people as well as mine need help. We are neighbors that can benefit from each other. I truthfully consider you as a brother.  Don't let politics get in the way of a peaceful relationship.

I appreciate the brotherhood. I envision the "working for the better future" with Greece will be them defending Macedonian airspace, in exchange for continued allowance to use the Halkidiki beaches without getting too uppity otherwise one of the F-16's might "accidentally" release a missile while doing maneuvers over Gevgelija.



Offline Volnutt

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #68 on: March 22, 2019, 09:04:54 PM »
Dialects aren't languages.

Tell that to Moldova (or Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, or Ukraine, or Austria, or the Gullah of South Carolina, or...) lol. A dialect is just a language without an army behind it.

My point is that you aren't quite as pure as you think you are, even if that were a valid concept.
Ill accept that because there is some truth behind it. You could go farther though, and break it down to the individual too.
Unification is an ideology and those that don't believe in it also don't have a right to a cult like following of a Christian saviour.
I'm not comfortable being a number either.

The difference is that Nationalism is sifting sand and Christ is a Rock. Can't really compare the two.
For historical purposes it will do just fine.😉

So are you from Σπάρτα or Σπάρτη?

Why make a conscious effort to unify so boldly around something less exact and secure than Christ, especially when it just causes conflicts? We have enough strife merely in terms of religion.
Did Christ ask the leper what he is before healing him? What difference does it make. I can belong to two clubs maybe even more. Definitely more.  Christ isn't asking you to change and be only Christian.  He is asking to incorporate his being into you. You are free to be what ever pleases you.

It's not about the club. It's not even about enjoying the club and being proud of it. It's about the obsession with the club (as though it could even remotely compare to your identity as a Christian) and trying to gatekeep others out of the club as though their membership threatens yours. That's just the slightly more respectable version of middle aged Queen fans complaining about the Bohemian Rhapsody movie.
You watch to many movies.  There is absolutely no reason why I shouldn't enjoy being a greek.
Did I say you couldn't?

Do i think Im better than others. Truth: sometimes.  Other times i'm made to be a fool by a teenager.  So in the end we are all pretty equal.

Well then physician heal thyself before telling others to repent. "There is neither Jew nor Greek..."

But, don't try to take away a historical reality by demeaning current greeks. That is very unfair.

I'm not demeaning, I'm just pointing out real nuances. The fact is, nobody's ethnic identity is a "pure" monolith, especially not to the extent that it justifies calling others "half-breeds." That's just gross.

Also, your politicians and loudmouths are doing a good job of demeaning you without any outside help at all. Maybe stop cheerleading their efforts in doing so?

You might still be swinging from ropes if the enlightenment didn't come through us.

Says I watch too many movies. Very nearly quotes the dad from My Big Greek Wedding. *slow clap*

Also, your racism has been answered in other threads. Crap like this is why I'm not letting you play the "let's just each do our own thing, man!" card.
Your just an eccentric that always needs to be correct to fill your ego.
There are truths. Accept it. You didn't write history, you just entered it so many years ago. Could you please account for your accomplishments?  Since we are talking about accomplishments it seems fitting you present yours . So we can judge if we should listen to your rant or not. I mean, who brought you here as an authority on matters you probably know little of. Your an outsider looking in. Same with others that think they have an "opinion " not having lived it.
Territorial claims have a large part in politics.  If you don't understand it than stay out of the discussion.

And your relevant accomplishments are... what, exactly? I don't think either of us get to "piggyback" on the history of our large-scale ethnic group such that we can call others useless at the same time. Being Greek doesn't mean that you personally wrote Plato's Republic or the Athenian Constitution and me being Irish doesn't mean that I personally built the skyscrapers of New York and Chicago or mined the copper that helped win the World Wars.

But please, continue to insinuate that some random person in Skopje claiming to be "Macedonian" and not "North Macedonian" is some kind of threat to your very being. It doesn't make you look like an insane racist at all.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #69 on: March 22, 2019, 09:08:25 PM »
Dialects aren't languages.

Tell that to Moldova (or Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, or Ukraine, or Austria, or the Gullah of South Carolina, or...) lol. A dialect is just a language without an army behind it.

My point is that you aren't quite as pure as you think you are, even if that were a valid concept.
Ill accept that because there is some truth behind it. You could go farther though, and break it down to the individual too.
Unification is an ideology and those that don't believe in it also don't have a right to a cult like following of a Christian saviour.
I'm not comfortable being a number either.

The difference is that Nationalism is sifting sand and Christ is a Rock. Can't really compare the two.
For historical purposes it will do just fine.😉

So are you from Σπάρτα or Σπάρτη?

Why make a conscious effort to unify so boldly around something less exact and secure than Christ, especially when it just causes conflicts? We have enough strife merely in terms of religion.
Did Christ ask the leper what he is before healing him? What difference does it make. I can belong to two clubs maybe even more. Definitely more.  Christ isn't asking you to change and be only Christian.  He is asking to incorporate his being into you. You are free to be what ever pleases you.

It's not about the club. It's not even about enjoying the club and being proud of it. It's about the obsession with the club (as though it could even remotely compare to your identity as a Christian) and trying to gatekeep others out of the club as though their membership threatens yours. That's just the slightly more respectable version of middle aged Queen fans complaining about the Bohemian Rhapsody movie.
You watch to many movies.  There is absolutely no reason why I shouldn't enjoy being a greek.
Did I say you couldn't?

Do i think Im better than others. Truth: sometimes.  Other times i'm made to be a fool by a teenager.  So in the end we are all pretty equal.

Well then physician heal thyself before telling others to repent. "There is neither Jew nor Greek..."

But, don't try to take away a historical reality by demeaning current greeks. That is very unfair.

I'm not demeaning, I'm just pointing out real nuances. The fact is, nobody's ethnic identity is a "pure" monolith, especially not to the extent that it justifies calling others "half-breeds." That's just gross.

Also, your politicians and loudmouths are doing a good job of demeaning you without any outside help at all. Maybe stop cheerleading their efforts in doing so?

You might still be swinging from ropes if the enlightenment didn't come through us.

Says I watch too many movies. Very nearly quotes the dad from My Big Greek Wedding. *slow clap*

Also, your racism has been answered in other threads. Crap like this is why I'm not letting you play the "let's just each do our own thing, man!" card.
Your just an eccentric that always needs to be correct to fill your ego.
There are truths. Accept it. You didn't write history, you just entered it so many years ago. Could you please account for your accomplishments?  Since we are talking about accomplishments it seems fitting you present yours . So we can judge if we should listen to your rant or not. I mean, who brought you here as an authority on matters you probably know little of. Your an outsider looking in. Same with others that think they have an "opinion " not having lived it.
Territorial claims have a large part in politics.  If you don't understand it than stay out of the discussion.

And your relevant accomplishments are... what, exactly? I don't think either of us get to "piggyback" on the history of our large-scale ethnic group such that we can call others useless at the same time. Being Greek doesn't mean that you personally wrote Plato's Republic or the Athenian Constitution and me being Irish doesn't mean that I personally built the skyscrapers of New York and Chicago or mined the copper that helped win the World Wars.

But please, continue to insinuate that some random person in Skopje claiming to be "Macedonian" and not "North Macedonian" is some kind of threat to your very being. It doesn't make you look like an insane racist at all.
Personally.  I couldn't care none the less. Unless there is a war of some kind its basically rant.

Offline Eamonomae

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #70 on: March 22, 2019, 09:13:17 PM »
Dialects aren't languages.

Tell that to Moldova (or Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, or Ukraine, or Austria, or the Gullah of South Carolina, or...) lol. A dialect is just a language without an army behind it.

My point is that you aren't quite as pure as you think you are, even if that were a valid concept.
Ill accept that because there is some truth behind it. You could go farther though, and break it down to the individual too.
Unification is an ideology and those that don't believe in it also don't have a right to a cult like following of a Christian saviour.
I'm not comfortable being a number either.

The difference is that Nationalism is sifting sand and Christ is a Rock. Can't really compare the two.
For historical purposes it will do just fine.😉

So are you from Σπάρτα or Σπάρτη?

Why make a conscious effort to unify so boldly around something less exact and secure than Christ, especially when it just causes conflicts? We have enough strife merely in terms of religion.
Did Christ ask the leper what he is before healing him? What difference does it make. I can belong to two clubs maybe even more. Definitely more.  Christ isn't asking you to change and be only Christian.  He is asking to incorporate his being into you. You are free to be what ever pleases you.

It's not about the club. It's not even about enjoying the club and being proud of it. It's about the obsession with the club (as though it could even remotely compare to your identity as a Christian) and trying to gatekeep others out of the club as though their membership threatens yours. That's just the slightly more respectable version of middle aged Queen fans complaining about the Bohemian Rhapsody movie.
You watch to many movies.  There is absolutely no reason why I shouldn't enjoy being a greek.
Did I say you couldn't?

Do i think Im better than others. Truth: sometimes.  Other times i'm made to be a fool by a teenager.  So in the end we are all pretty equal.

Well then physician heal thyself before telling others to repent. "There is neither Jew nor Greek..."

But, don't try to take away a historical reality by demeaning current greeks. That is very unfair.

I'm not demeaning, I'm just pointing out real nuances. The fact is, nobody's ethnic identity is a "pure" monolith, especially not to the extent that it justifies calling others "half-breeds." That's just gross.

Also, your politicians and loudmouths are doing a good job of demeaning you without any outside help at all. Maybe stop cheerleading their efforts in doing so?

You might still be swinging from ropes if the enlightenment didn't come through us.

Says I watch too many movies. Very nearly quotes the dad from My Big Greek Wedding. *slow clap*

Also, your racism has been answered in other threads. Crap like this is why I'm not letting you play the "let's just each do our own thing, man!" card.
Your just an eccentric that always needs to be correct to fill your ego.
There are truths. Accept it. You didn't write history, you just entered it so many years ago. Could you please account for your accomplishments?  Since we are talking about accomplishments it seems fitting you present yours . So we can judge if we should listen to your rant or not. I mean, who brought you here as an authority on matters you probably know little of. Your an outsider looking in. Same with others that think they have an "opinion " not having lived it.
Territorial claims have a large part in politics.  If you don't understand it than stay out of the discussion.

Christ accomplished more than the godless Plato, the pagan Alexander the Great, and the brute Leonidas I.

As Proverbs says,
"The wicked earns deceptive wages, but one who sows righteousness gets a sure reward."
"Today day day day day day day
Day day day day day day day day day
By now now now now now now
Now now now now now now now now
I don't believe that anybody
Feels the way I do, do do do do" - Wndrwll by Neil Cicierega

Offline Tzimis

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #71 on: March 22, 2019, 09:29:52 PM »
Righteousness is in the eye of the beholder.

Offline biro

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #72 on: March 22, 2019, 11:13:12 PM »
I would like to see the Macedonians in communion as well.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist/works Warning: stories have mature content.

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Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #73 on: March 23, 2019, 10:01:26 AM »
North Macedonia.  Found some information:  https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2018/12/13/pope-adds-another-trip-to-agenda-will-visit-bulgaria-macedonia-in-may/

Why does the Pope of Rome even want to go there?  I mean the two countries do not have a Catholic tradition.   He could use his time more wisely dealing with the problems in his own church and meeting with his own flock.

Offline orthoreader

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #74 on: March 23, 2019, 10:11:20 AM »
North Macedonia.  Found some information:  https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2018/12/13/pope-adds-another-trip-to-agenda-will-visit-bulgaria-macedonia-in-may/

Why does the Pope of Rome even want to go there?  I mean the two countries do not have a Catholic tradition.   He could use his time more wisely dealing with the problems in his own church and meeting with his own flock.

Mother Theresa was born in Skopje, and there is a decent sized RC Church in Skopje and Bitola.

Also, if you haven't read about Theodosius of Skopje he's an interesting character. He was one of the first to try to force a Macedonian Church but through allegiance to Rome. I think since then Rome has always held out that they're going to put Macedonia under the pope. And, quite frankly (and unfortunately) some Macedonians would be willing to do so being fed up with trying to find common knowledge with Orthodox brothers.

The latter was actually my biggest worry about the pope's visit in May. Like the Ukraine, Macedonia is currently a pretty active Casablanca. There are so many international players vying to establish some control, including the Vatican.   

Offline augustin717

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #75 on: March 23, 2019, 12:09:53 PM »
Maybe he’ll grant autocephaly.
that was Rome ‘s canonical territory for many centuries so a case ca be made
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Offline orthoreader

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #76 on: March 23, 2019, 12:47:06 PM »
Maybe he’ll grant autocephaly.
that was Rome ‘s canonical territory for many centuries so a case ca be made

Prior to the Great Schism, Ohrid was under Rome's influence. It was suppressed in the 1700's and Ohrid went East with the rest of the region. At least this is a very layman's explanation.

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #77 on: March 23, 2019, 02:18:12 PM »
Maybe he’ll grant autocephaly.
that was Rome ‘s canonical territory for many centuries so a case ca be made

All the Macedonians I have ever met and who belong to the Macedonian Orthodox Church in the diaspora are fervently Orthodox: they want nothing to do with Catholicism.
As for Bulgaria, from a recent article in the Catholic press the Catholics (both Latin & Eastern) are only 0.66% of the population.  As a religious group they come in 4th after Orthodox, Muslim and Protestants.

https://international.la-croix.com/news/catholic-church-in-bulgaria-concerned-over-new-religion-law/7665

Quote
Catholics represent only 0.66 percent of the population totalling around 60,000 people and Protestants only 0.87 percent. 

The article itself deals with the new 2018 law regarding the prohibition of funding from outside Bulgaria.  Without that funding and also foreign priests from Poland and other countries, Catholics might lose the few numbers they already have.

Quote
  In fact, the Catholic minority in Bulgaria, which is spread over three dioceses, two of which are Latin and one Byzantine Slavic, may be prohibited from receiving any foreign financial assistance.
"Without foreign aid, we will find it difficult to survive," said Father Gillier.





« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 02:22:38 PM by IreneOlinyk »

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #78 on: March 23, 2019, 02:21:22 PM »
As for Bulgaria, from a recent article in the Catholic press the Catholics (both Latin & Eastern) are only 0.66% of the population.

So over twice as many (as a percentage) compared to Orthodox in the U.S...

Offline Apostolos

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #79 on: March 23, 2019, 02:30:09 PM »
I spoke to my cousin in Thessaloniki, never heard of such a visit  :P
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #80 on: March 23, 2019, 02:39:28 PM »
Maybe he’ll grant autocephaly.
that was Rome ‘s canonical territory for many centuries so a case ca be made

Prior to the Great Schism, Ohrid was under Rome's influence. It was suppressed in the 1700's and Ohrid went East with the rest of the region. At least this is a very layman's explanation.
Thessalonicus’ archbishop was also the papal exarch for Illyricum .
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Offline Tzimis

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #81 on: March 23, 2019, 04:24:18 PM »
As for Bulgaria, from a recent article in the Catholic press the Catholics (both Latin & Eastern) are only 0.66% of the population.

So over twice as many (as a percentage) compared to Orthodox in the U.S...
Is it really that small?

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #82 on: March 23, 2019, 04:47:37 PM »


Prior to the Great Schism, Ohrid was under Rome's influence. It was suppressed in the 1700's and Ohrid went East with the rest of the region. At least this is a very layman's explanation.

What exactly was suppressed in the 1700's in Ohrid?  Were there Roman Catholic parishes and faithful in the Ohrid area?

Thanks for the links by the way. 
I found a translation of Metropolitan Theodosius of Skopje's letter to Pope Leo XIII in 1891 here:
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Translation:Theodosius,_the_metropolitan_of_Skopje,_to_Pope_Leo_XIII

Very interesting reading:  was Metropolitan Theodosius really naive enough to think that Pope Leo XIII would not demand complete submission to papal control and changes in doctrine?

Quote
I, the undersigned Metropolitan of Skopje, Theodosius, by Gods Mercy head of the Skopje eparchy, am submitting this request both in my name and in the name of the whole Orthodox flock of Macedonia, with which we are begging His Holiness to accept us under the wing of the Roman Catholic Church, after he has restored the ancient Archbishopric of Ohrid, unlawfully abolished by Sutlan Mustapha III in 1767, and put it in canonical unity with the Roman Catholic Church. Our desire springs from the historical right of the Orthodox Macedonian people to be freed from the jurisdiction of foreign Churches - the Bulgarian Exarchate and Constantinople Patriarchate - and be united in its own Orthodox Church, acquiring all the characteristic features of a people who have a right to independent spiritual and cultural life and education.

Your Holiness, please have in mind the specific traits of the Orthodox religion, which the Orthodox people will never renounce; they are: independence as regards faith, the church services and the priests' attire.

And I also wonder if the clergy or faithful were consulted or was this a secret initiative of Metropolitan Theodosius?

Offline orthoreader

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #83 on: March 23, 2019, 05:26:14 PM »

Quote
What exactly was suppressed in the 1700's in Ohrid?  Were there Roman Catholic parishes and faithful in the Ohrid area?

I think most all influence was suppressed i.e. Church Iconography or art; writings, music etc. I have never heard of anyone celebrating the Divine Liturgy in a Western Rite fashion or anything likes this.



Quote
And I also wonder if the clergy or faithful were consulted or was this a secret initiative of Metropolitan Theodosius?

This is a good question. I know there are some today in Macedonia who are more enthralled by the notion of having an independent Church than remaining Orthodox and who view Theodosius positively and would accept going under the wing of the pope. But they are not a serious voice.

I know about a 1/3 the MOC Church right now would jump in a second if the EP were to propose a Ukrainian scenario for the MOC. They too aren't in the majority but they are the group with the most power as they are close to the current State Department backed government in Macedonia and they do influence the Archbishop. This too is unfortunate. 

Orthodox Russia had strong influence in Macedonia up until about three years ago. They were also building a cathedral in Skopje in honor of Russia. But that construction was halted and it just sits there. Igumen Methodios (Petrov) of Valaam is of Macedonian heritage.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2019, 05:27:42 PM by orthoreader »

Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #84 on: March 23, 2019, 10:29:24 PM »
North Macedonia.  Found some information:  https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2018/12/13/pope-adds-another-trip-to-agenda-will-visit-bulgaria-macedonia-in-may/

Why does the Pope of Rome even want to go there?  I mean the two countries do not have a Catholic tradition.   He could use his time more wisely dealing with the problems in his own church and meeting with his own flock.
There are Catholics, Latin and Byzantine, in both countries.  They are his own flock.
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Offline biro

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #85 on: March 24, 2019, 01:18:34 AM »
Maybe he’ll grant autocephaly.
that was Rome ‘s canonical territory for many centuries so a case ca be made

All the Macedonians I have ever met and who belong to the Macedonian Orthodox Church in the diaspora are fervently Orthodox: they want nothing to do with Catholicism.
As for Bulgaria, from a recent article in the Catholic press the Catholics (both Latin & Eastern) are only 0.66% of the population.  As a religious group they come in 4th after Orthodox, Muslim and Protestants.

https://international.la-croix.com/news/catholic-church-in-bulgaria-concerned-over-new-religion-law/7665

Quote
Catholics represent only 0.66 percent of the population totalling around 60,000 people and Protestants only 0.87 percent. 

The article itself deals with the new 2018 law regarding the prohibition of funding from outside Bulgaria.  Without that funding and also foreign priests from Poland and other countries, Catholics might lose the few numbers they already have.

Quote
  In fact, the Catholic minority in Bulgaria, which is spread over three dioceses, two of which are Latin and one Byzantine Slavic, may be prohibited from receiving any foreign financial assistance.
"Without foreign aid, we will find it difficult to survive," said Father Gillier.


Um, maybe he wants to pray for peace or something?

I was baptized Roman Catholic. Something I cannot help.

I have nothing else to say.
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Offline orthoreader

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #86 on: March 25, 2019, 11:54:53 AM »
Maybe he’ll grant autocephaly.
that was Rome ‘s canonical territory for many centuries so a case ca be made

All the Macedonians I have ever met and who belong to the Macedonian Orthodox Church in the diaspora are fervently Orthodox: they want nothing to do with Catholicism.
As for Bulgaria, from a recent article in the Catholic press the Catholics (both Latin & Eastern) are only 0.66% of the population.  As a religious group they come in 4th after Orthodox, Muslim and Protestants.

https://international.la-croix.com/news/catholic-church-in-bulgaria-concerned-over-new-religion-law/7665

Quote
Catholics represent only 0.66 percent of the population totalling around 60,000 people and Protestants only 0.87 percent. 

The article itself deals with the new 2018 law regarding the prohibition of funding from outside Bulgaria.  Without that funding and also foreign priests from Poland and other countries, Catholics might lose the few numbers they already have.

Quote
  In fact, the Catholic minority in Bulgaria, which is spread over three dioceses, two of which are Latin and one Byzantine Slavic, may be prohibited from receiving any foreign financial assistance.
"Without foreign aid, we will find it difficult to survive," said Father Gillier.


Um, maybe he wants to pray for peace or something?

I was baptized Roman Catholic. Something I cannot help.

I have nothing else to say.

He most likely does. And there are Catholic Churches in most of the bigger cities in Macedonia. My question/concern was more to the timing of the visit, not so much the visit itself.

Offline reclusivus

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Re: Pope Francis to visit Macedonia in May
« Reply #87 on: April 20, 2019, 01:37:37 AM »
Dialects aren't languages.

Tell that to Moldova (or Serbia/Croatia/Bosnia, or Ukraine, or Austria, or the Gullah of South Carolina, or...) lol. A dialect is just a language without an army behind it.

My point is that you aren't quite as pure as you think you are, even if that were a valid concept.
Ill accept that because there is some truth behind it. You could go farther though, and break it down to the individual too.
Unification is an ideology and those that don't believe in it also don't have a right to a cult like following of a Christian saviour.
I'm not comfortable being a number either.

The difference is that Nationalism is sifting sand and Christ is a Rock. Can't really compare the two.
For historical purposes it will do just fine.😉

So are you from Σπάρτα or Σπάρτη?

Why make a conscious effort to unify so boldly around something less exact and secure than Christ, especially when it just causes conflicts? We have enough strife merely in terms of religion.
Did Christ ask the leper what he is before healing him? What difference does it make. I can belong to two clubs maybe even more. Definitely more.  Christ isn't asking you to change and be only Christian.  He is asking to incorporate his being into you. You are free to be what ever pleases you.

It's not about the club. It's not even about enjoying the club and being proud of it. It's about the obsession with the club (as though it could even remotely compare to your identity as a Christian) and trying to gatekeep others out of the club as though their membership threatens yours. That's just the slightly more respectable version of middle aged Queen fans complaining about the Bohemian Rhapsody movie.
You watch to many movies.  There is absolutely no reason why I shouldn't enjoy being a greek.
Did I say you couldn't?

Do i think Im better than others. Truth: sometimes.  Other times i'm made to be a fool by a teenager.  So in the end we are all pretty equal.

Well then physician heal thyself before telling others to repent. "There is neither Jew nor Greek..."

But, don't try to take away a historical reality by demeaning current greeks. That is very unfair.

I'm not demeaning, I'm just pointing out real nuances. The fact is, nobody's ethnic identity is a "pure" monolith, especially not to the extent that it justifies calling others "half-breeds." That's just gross.

Also, your politicians and loudmouths are doing a good job of demeaning you without any outside help at all. Maybe stop cheerleading their efforts in doing so?

You might still be swinging from ropes if the enlightenment didn't come through us.

Says I watch too many movies. Very nearly quotes the dad from My Big Greek Wedding. *slow clap*

Also, your racism has been answered in other threads. Crap like this is why I'm not letting you play the "let's just each do our own thing, man!" card.
Your just an eccentric that always needs to be correct to fill your ego.
There are truths. Accept it. You didn't write history, you just entered it so many years ago. Could you please account for your accomplishments?  Since we are talking about accomplishments it seems fitting you present yours . So we can judge if we should listen to your rant or not. I mean, who brought you here as an authority on matters you probably know little of. Your an outsider looking in. Same with others that think they have an "opinion " not having lived it.
Territorial claims have a large part in politics.  If you don't understand it than stay out of the discussion.

Christ accomplished more than the godless Plato, the pagan Alexander the Great, and the brute Leonidas I.

As Proverbs says,
"The wicked earns deceptive wages, but one who sows righteousness gets a sure reward."

I thought Plato was the first Gentile that Christ pulled out of Hades... I read that is a popular Orthodox legend, he was the archetype of the Virtuous Pagan.
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