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Author Topic: The Pope of Amerika  (Read 6700 times) Average Rating: 0
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aserb
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« on: November 13, 2005, 03:58:26 PM »

Is Pat Robertson the Evangelical Pope of The USA?

That is does he speak for all evangelicals?

Or what is he?
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« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2005, 04:15:32 PM »

     Pat Robertson is a Protestant Mullah.  Period.  He publicly called for a man's eradication (Hugo Chavez).  I don't care if Chavez is a socialist.  Robertson has no place issuing fatwahs against anyone.  I'm about to go to Afghanistan to fight the kind of people Robertson wants in power.  Theocratic Zealots.  Protestant and Islamic Fundamentalists have more in common with each other than they're willing to admit, and it bothers me how much power the Fundevangelists in this country are gaining on a daily basis.  It is most certainly not the right way.
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« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2005, 09:17:40 AM »

Amen, J.  Another enlightened Military man.  I was in the Navy Grin
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« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2005, 01:53:18 PM »

  ÃƒÆ’‚  ÃƒÆ’‚ Pat Robertson is a Protestant Mullah.  Period.  He publicly called for a man's eradication (Hugo Chavez).  I don't care if Chavez is a socialist.  Robertson has no place issuing fatwahs against anyone.  I'm about to go to Afghanistan to fight the kind of people Robertson wants in power.  Theocratic Zealots.  Protestant and Islamic Fundamentalists have more in common with each other than they're willing to admit, and it bothers me how much power the Fundevangelists in this country are gaining on a daily basis.  It is most certainly not the right way.

That was just plain brilliant.
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« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2005, 02:15:13 PM »

If anyone deserves to be the Evangelical Pope, it's Billy Graham. I love that guy.

Peace.
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« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2005, 02:33:37 PM »

Definitely- Billy Graham is the most solid and respected Protestant leader in our country; perhaps even the world. It says a lot for his commitment to have ministered through the DECADES without the scandal that have hit so many others in this land. I feel I am not even half the Orthodox Christian as he is a good Protestant Christian.
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« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2005, 03:46:07 PM »

J

 second SouthSerb

DavidH

Billy Graham came from another era that is why he is so weill respected, but how do you respect a leader that makes such outlandish claims throughout his life.

Maybe  Pat R., has been reading too much of "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" by Jonathan Edwards.

If God were as wrathful as Pat R thinks he is then we all should be fried.

Lord have mercy
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« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2005, 03:56:41 PM »

Hello aserb-
  True. Billy Graham is from a time of higher standards and it shows in his manner of living and in his emphases of teaching a life transforming Christianity vs. the saccharine health and wealth gospel crowd. It would be nice to see Billy Graham in that alternate universe where he is actually an Orthodox evangelist to America along the lines of Cyril and Methodius :-)
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« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2005, 04:41:18 PM »

Is Pat Robertson the Evangelical Pope of The USA?

That is does he speak for all evangelicals?

Or what is he?

What a shame he is the way he is because he does come out with some very good points but messes them up with triumphalism and just plain silly and hurtful statements. 

JoeS
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« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2005, 04:46:15 PM »

Please, please please...
DO NOT make Pat Robertson out to be anything than what he is - an independent religious entrepreneur. Even many mainline Protestants would consider him to be heretical in many of his so-called Chrisitan beliefs and abominable in his political beliefs.

I was embarrassed and ashamed of Robertson when I was a Protestant. He was a cut above Swaggart and Jim and Tammy baker, but that's not saying much. And Benny Hinn has stepped in to rip more poeple off.

If you want to read EXCELLENT Protestant critiques and humorous spoofs of these clowns check out The Wittenbug Door magazine
www.wittenburgdoor.com  Go to the archives and then check out "Losers"
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« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2005, 09:06:08 PM »

What about Fallwell? Is he the Evangelical pope?

Peace.
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« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2005, 09:27:42 PM »

No.  He would be the Pope of the KKK.
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« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2005, 09:44:39 PM »

Please, please please...
DO NOT make Pat Robertson out to be anything than what he is - an independent religious entrepreneur. Even many mainline Protestants would consider him to be heretical in many of his so-called Chrisitan beliefs and abominable in his political beliefs.

I was embarrassed and ashamed of Robertson when I was a Protestant. He was a cut above Swaggart and Jim and Tammy baker, but that's not saying much. And Benny Hinn has stepped in to rip more poeple off.

If you want to read EXCELLENT Protestant critiques and humorous spoofs of these clowns check out The Wittenbug Door magazine
www.wittenburgdoor.comÂÂ  Go to the archives and then check out "Losers"

Are you saying that Pat Robertson has nothing good to say about anything at anytime? 
Look, we all know that these televangelists are out to make a buck.  I personally dont subscribe to him but at times he makes sense and other times he's full of it.

Im not praising him just saying that occassionally he makes some good points.
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« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2005, 09:45:19 PM »

Im not praising him just saying that occassionally he makes some good points.

That whole thing about blind squirrels at work, I suppose...
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« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2005, 09:46:47 PM »

That whole thing about blind squirrels at work, I suppose...

HUH?
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2005, 09:47:57 PM »

HUH?

You know, even blind squirrels find an acorn every once in a while?
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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2005, 10:04:41 PM »

You know, even blind squirrels find an acorn every once in a while?

Ahhh, thank you for making it more understanding for this old man.

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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2005, 10:48:07 PM »

Quote
True. Billy Graham is from a time of higher standards and it shows in his manner of living and in his emphases of teaching a life transforming Christianity vs. the saccharine health and wealth gospel crowd. It would be nice to see Billy Graham in that alternate universe where he is actually an Orthodox evangelist to America along the lines of Cyril and Methodius :-)

DavidH.  Agreed Smiley
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« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2005, 03:54:03 AM »

Ummm... Am I no longer allowed to post on this forum?
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« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2005, 09:40:46 AM »

Any more comments on grand mullah Robertson or shall we close this post and move on?
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« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2005, 11:20:12 AM »

To Joe S
Even if PR gets some things right some of the time, that just makes it worse.

Heretics who can sprinkle truth in with their falsehood are all the more dangerous

For example, my conservative Republican/Evangelical/Calvinist sister doesn't watch the 700 Club (thanks be to God) and I would never want her to (she's a Fox news junkie); her faith is FAR MORE SAFE with Sean Hannity than with Pat Robertson!

It's the usual thing; the secular guys do it far better (Hannity/Rush) than the religious guys (Robertson/Falwell); plus they don't confuse the faithful with bad theology; if you disagree politically, you can disagree without dubious religion getting mixed in.

I think the televangelists, by and large (except for Billy Graham) cause way more harm than good and leave all Christians, Orthodox and heterodox, with a HUGE public relations problem when engged in evangelistic dialogue with secular people
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« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2005, 11:21:52 AM »

somehow I posted  the same message twice so I deleted the second one
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« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2005, 12:13:56 PM »

BA,

Maybe you were just being emphatic! lol  Wink
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« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2005, 12:39:44 PM »

BA:

So true!
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« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2005, 04:33:25 PM »

My dear sons and daughters, Billy Graham is a
freemason
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« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2005, 04:38:18 PM »

Beavis:

Then your point is?
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« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2005, 04:43:05 PM »

Freemasons do a number of silly, un-Christian things like worship "Baphomet".....I do believe there are a number of Church canons barring any Orthodox Christian from taking part in Freemasonry.  aserb: if you are a freemason, I encourage you to speak to your FOC ASAP.
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« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2005, 05:25:58 PM »

My dear sons and daughters, Billy Graham is a
freemason

The only evidence of this I can find online is from wacko independent Baptist-esque sites. On what are you basing this assertment?
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« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2005, 05:28:08 PM »

From an autobiography of a man who was previously involved in Freemasonry....can't remember the name of the book, though Embarrassed......but I have no problem believing it.
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« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2005, 07:42:14 PM »

I am not a freemason
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« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2005, 08:49:21 PM »

Don't get me started of Rush and Hannity or Fox News.  I have one word for those guys.

CHICKENHAWK!
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« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2005, 11:12:15 PM »

Quote
Don't get me started of Rush and Hannity or Fox News.  I have one word for those guys.  CHICKENHAWK
J,
No, no, no........remember, no American political discussions!!

Quote
My dear sons and daughters, Billy Graham is a Freemason

UUhhh Beavith,

Sounds like you are obsessed with the freemasons. You should watch National Treasure for all of the Masonic clues.

I guess Billy Graham is part of the new world order (N.W.O 4-LIFE!!)


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« Reply #32 on: November 16, 2005, 05:10:20 PM »

The only evidence of this I can find online is from wacko independent Baptist-esque sites. On what are you basing this assertment?

Well, whatever he may or may not be, he is a Protestant heretic nonetheless.
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« Reply #33 on: November 16, 2005, 05:53:58 PM »

i thought it was that old doddering fool Billy Graham who was the Pope of Amerikkka.
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« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2005, 03:20:28 PM »

sdcheung
that is a disrespectful comment and completely out of line
even if you believe him to be a Protestant heretic, as Beavis does (who also is borderline with his disrespectful comments), Billy Graham has conducted himself only with the utmost credibility, ethicality and conscientiousness as a public religious figure. He should be respected for that alone.

No Orthodox person, no matter how at odds with his beliefs, should go chucking flippand, disrespectful comments at him.

Is that the kind of respect you show to older people?

Go to confession.

Many of our bishops are old. Would you refer to them in such a dsirespectful way?
How would you feel if a Protestant referred to one of our elderly bishops as a doddering old fool?

Anyway, the term "fool" is a moral category in the Old Testament. He is someone who behaves as if there is no God, follows the ways of the unrighteous, runs his mouth, is lazy and devises trouble. NOTHING in Dr. Graham's character comes near to this.
So if you were using the term "fool" in its moral sense, rather than its colloquial sense, you have also slandered Billy Graham and owe a public repentance.
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« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2005, 03:28:58 PM »

BTW
I am a convert from Protestantism. There was alot that was lacking there, which is why I converted.ÂÂ  But I first found the Lord there.

I for one will NO LONGER tolerate gratuitous Protestant-bashing on these boards.

I will let the former RC's stand up against RC bashing.

But it's unbecoming to Orthodox people to constantly harrangue against the "heterodox."

Stop poisoning these boards and stop showing off your cute, quick, clever one liners and comebacks. (You know who you are)

There are plenty of secular political or sports board you can go to to do that.

Get some counseling people; deal with your issues in confession. Whatever.

Let's get some more edifying discussion going.

Not sweet, mamby-pamby talk. It's okay to disagree and to do so with conviction and vigor and stout arguments. But please, let's cut out the hip, the clever, the cute, the one-liners, the one-upsmanship, the showing off.
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« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2005, 03:37:01 PM »

sdcheung
that is a disrespectful comment and completely out of line
even if you believe him to be a Protestant heretic, as Beavis does (who also is borderline with his disrespectful comments), Billy Graham has conducted himself only with the utmost credibility, ethicality and conscientiousness as a public religious figure. He should be respected for that alone.

No Orthodox person, no matter how at odds with his beliefs, should go chucking flippand, disrespectful comments at him.

Is that the kind of respect you show to older people?

Go to confession.

Many of our bishops are old. Would you refer to them in such a dsirespectful way?
How would you feel if a Protestant referred to one of our elderly bishops as a doddering old fool?

Anyway, the term "fool" is a moral category in the Old Testament. He is someone who behaves as if there is no God, follows the ways of the unrighteous, runs his mouth, is lazy and devises trouble. NOTHING in Dr. Graham's character comes near to this.
So if you were using the term "fool" in its moral sense, rather than its colloquial sense, you have also slandered Billy Graham and owe a public repentance.


Well..this summer I saw him in NYC..he was doddering alright.
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« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2005, 03:56:25 PM »

BrotherAidan-  Right On!! Grin

Being polite is not the same as being namby-pamby or saccharine.  But as my grandmother used to say "You catch more flies with honey then with vinegar" (or vitriol)

Cheap shots are easy.  Reasoned thought takes more time and effort.

And disrespect of the elderly is wrong.  Someday (God willling) many here will *be* elderly.  In the line of "Do unto others" will you want to be mocked and rerided in your last years? 

Ebor
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« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2005, 04:08:37 PM »

BrotherAidan-  Right On!! Grin

Being polite is not the same as being namby-pamby or saccharine.  But as my grandmother used to say "You catch more flies with honey then with vinegar" (or vitriol)

Cheap shots are easy.  Reasoned thought takes more time and effort.

And disrespect of the elderly is wrong.  Someday (God willling) many here will *be* elderly.  In the line of "Do unto others" will you want to be mocked and rerided in your last years? 

Ebor

course i do.
I'm a curmudgeon now, and I'll be a curmudgeon till my last days.. but I'll be armed with a nice hard walking stick to bop ppl over the head with if I'm derided.
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« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2005, 04:21:39 PM »


Well..this summer I saw him in NYC..he was doddering alright.

   It never ceases to amaze me how we Orthodox will study every minute detail of church history and canon law in order to find the fullness of the True Faith and yet we don't seem to pause for a moment's examination of ourselves when we have offended others. We should never allow our embarrasment at rebuke to outweigh our humility in repentance. I am reminded of the verse in the gospels:  "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Mt. 23:23)
In Christ,
Rd. David
   
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« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2005, 09:10:38 AM »

BrotherAiden:

sdcheung was rather flip in his comments, that I agree with, but forgive him. This board was originally started concerning Pat Robertson's comment over God being voted outed of Dover,PA; therefore, watch out Dove. Pat Robertson has a TV show and is a public figure in America. This is not his first inane comment, it's one of a long line of inane comments and as a public figure, religious or not, I have every right to call him a wacko. Having rejected the authority of the church (the one true faith, the Orthodox church), whether consciously or unconsciously, he has set himself up a spokesman for God. I cannot abide this in any way shape or form and I plan to speak out against him. He is his own Pope, as a re many evangelical leaders with large  or even small followings. They have a cult of personality and it is wrong.
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« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2005, 10:41:18 AM »

Hello everyone,

Yes, I agree with much that has been said so far.

I often encounter a recurring need within myself to cultivate and practice SOBRIETY when thinking or discussing several topics.

Like humility, sober-mindedness is in really short supply. And when we find it lacking in public figures like Robertson, I think it behooves us not to respond in kind.

If it can be said that a significant portion of Americans consider Robertson to be a divine and his words Divinely-inspired, it just goes to illustrate the lack of discernment they possess. Of course that just encourages me to redouble my prayers for them.

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« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2005, 11:49:22 AM »

BrotherAidan:  Please forgive me for being offensive.  It seems like I do that a lot :'(.  I will add, however (not that this is an excuse), that I am a convert from Protestantism myself.  The predication "heresy", though, qualifies a person's beliefs and not their person per se.  It is not meant to be an an hominem.  It is simply an objective observation of a person's beliefs.  People seem to think that labeling someone as a "heretic" translates into a judgment about their personal fate.  It does not.  I don't know if Nestorius is in hell.  I don't know if Arius is in hell.  I don't know if Apollinarius is in hell....and I don't know if Billy Graham will go to hell.  But all these people have deviated from Orthodoxy in one way or another.  That is an objective, empirically verifiable fact.  I used to be a muslim.  But I was wrong when I was a muslim.  I used to be an atheist.  But I was wrong when I was an atheist.  Similarly, I was a Protestant.  But I was just as equally wrong when I was a Protestant.  Billy Graham is a good, righteous, and holy man....more so than I'll ever be.  But he is not part of the True, One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.  That is a plain fact.
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« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2005, 12:02:42 PM »

Aserb
the comment I critiqued was not directed at Pat Robertson, but rather at Billy Graham.
Directed at Billy Graham, it was disrespectful and slanderous.
You have both a right and responsibility to point out the absurd and ridiculous and heretical, I agree.

I take no offence at rigorous, hard-nosed debate and discussion; but flippant "cooler-than-thou" comments I will no longer sit back and accept, especially when they are disrespectful and incorrect.

Critique the independent, self-proclaimed, sectarians and do it with the Bible,the Fathers and Holy Tradition, but don't be flippant or toss out lables or engage in cheap name-calling (and I do not mean that you do that, Aserb; I am still directing my commments to the smug, the hip and the so-very-cool with their so-called "edgy" comments).

BUT, and please PAY ATTENTION here fellow Orthodox. There is a world of difference between the historic Protestant denominations and all of these tiny sects, especially the extreme fundamentalist/dispensationalist types on the one hand and pentecostal/charasmatic/healing/health and wealth gospel types on the other hand.

Most of the protestant critiques I read on these boards apply to the second two groups. Historic Protestant denominations like Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans, Anglicans, Episcopalians (the ones struggling with whether to leave their church or continue to try to correct it), Congregationalists and even some Baptists have a stucture, a hierarchy (either bishops or bodies like a legislature), doctrinal standards (even if not always adequately enforced), standards for ordination, and standards for order and organization at the local church level and at the regional and national levels. They would not have a clue as to what most of you are talking about when you critique these other groups, lumping them together with all Protestants.

I know alot of these Protestant denominations at the national level have been infected with a lot of liberalism and modernism, but at the local parish level that is generally not the case.

As Orthodox who have found the True Faith, we can challenge historic Protestants' structure (Presbyterian, Congregational, Baptist) hierarchy (lacking in continual apostolic succession: Lutheran/Anglican/Episcopal); doctrinal standards to the degree that they differ (all of them) from Holy Tradition and the  Ecumenical Councils and the Fathers and their varying understandings of ordination, church order, the sacraments, et al. These can be fruitful, rational, respectful discussions that help them better understand the ancient Faith ( and may some day lead to their converting) and also help us appreciate our doctrines and Tradition better.

Since becoming Orthodox, I have never met or discussed Orthodoxy with a Protestant of this historic type who didn't have the utmost respect for Orthodox worship (especially if they have ever been to a service personally) and Orthodoxy's ancient longevity. In some, I can even detect a hint of envy.

I know there are some sectarian "baiters" that visit these boards. They are nor Protestants so much as sectarians, usually extreme fundamentalist/dispensationalist.

Please learn to distinguish between the two groups. Billy Graham and Pat Robertson would be two individuals who personally demonstrate the differences I have just tried to outline: one a historic Protestant (albeit a Baptist); the other a sectarian (oddly, fundamentalist/dispensational AND charasmatic).
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« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2005, 12:03:58 PM »

Billy Graham has conducted himself only with the utmost credibility, ethicality and conscientiousness as a public religious figure. He should be respected for that alone.

I don't know enough about his work to comment, but I can tell you that I've actually seen his son (on Larry King) many years ago, disparage the Serbian Orthodox Church for being "complicit" in "ethnic cleansing".  I generally think, the apple doesn't fall to far from the tree.

Quote
No Orthodox person, no matter how at odds with his beliefs, should go chucking flippand, disrespectful comments at him.

I agree.  You can choose to disagree with his opinions or POV, but this can and should be done with respect.

Quote
Is that the kind of respect you show to older people?

Again, I think you are correct.  Sometimes, comments here (myself included) get carried away and are unbecoming of an Orthodox Christian.

Quote
Many of our bishops are old. Would you refer to them in such a dsirespectful way?
How would you feel if a Protestant referred to one of our elderly bishops as a doddering old fool?

I don't go to any Protestant forums, but I can tell you I've been to a few RC forums that were a lot less respectful than we are here.  We shouldn't however, strive for the lowest common denominator.
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« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2005, 12:08:04 PM »

Beavis
I agree with your last post. When you write like that, you are quite cogent and informative. Please always take a deep breath when you reply and continue with this kind of enlightening, edifying comment.

thank you for taking the time to respond to my concerns

blessings on you!
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« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2005, 12:17:27 PM »

Southserb
Franklin Graham has been known to put his foot in his mouth from time to time.
Billy has always gone out of his way to not give offense to any other Christians.

Thank you for your other comments
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« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2005, 10:21:05 PM »

Please, please please...
DO NOT make Pat Robertson out to be anything than what he is - an independent religious entrepreneur. Even many mainline Protestants would consider him to be heretical in many of his so-called Chrisitan beliefs and abominable in his political beliefs.

I was embarrassed and ashamed of Robertson when I was a Protestant. He was a cut above Swaggart and Jim and Tammy baker, but that's not saying much. And Benny Hinn has stepped in to rip more poeple off.

If you want to read EXCELLENT Protestant critiques and humorous spoofs of these clowns check out The Wittenbug Door magazine
www.wittenburgdoor.comÂÂ  Go to the archives and then check out "Losers"

I once heard that Benny Hinn was Orthodox at one time.  Does anyone know if thjat is true?  And what about that Greek guy Dino (looks like a white Michael jackson) who plays the piano on TBN?  What's up with him?
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« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2005, 10:06:03 AM »

I once heard that Benny Hinn was Orthodox at one time.ÂÂ  Does anyone know if thjat is true?ÂÂ  

He is a Lebanese man who was baptized Antiochian as a child.  I believe he was adopted by a Canadian family, whereafter he drifted away into his little Charismatic fancies.  He affirms Nine Persons in the Trinity (which would actually make it an "Ennead").  I think he would be more like the Pope of DisneyWorld.
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« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2005, 12:05:41 PM »

I love your reply Beavis. Is there a connect to a website that talks about his fanasy trinity. I could use more laughs.
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« Reply #50 on: November 21, 2005, 12:09:49 PM »

My bad.....he is actually Palestinian.

This might be of some help: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-22,GGLG:en&q=Benny+Hinn%2C+Nine%2C+trinity  (but I warn you, some of these sites attack the Orthodox faith)
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« Reply #51 on: November 21, 2005, 12:13:40 PM »

ROTFL Cheesy

You might get a kick out of this one: http://www.satansrapture.com/bennyhinn.htm
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« Reply #52 on: November 21, 2005, 12:22:54 PM »

This just gets too funny....check out this one: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/signs_of_satan.htm
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« Reply #53 on: November 21, 2005, 03:43:30 PM »

BEavis:

Some people have too much time on their hands. Thanks for the links LOL  Cheesy
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« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2005, 05:00:29 PM »

BEavis:

Some people have too much time on their hands. Thanks for the links LOLÂÂ  Cheesy

Yes they do!!
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« Reply #55 on: November 24, 2005, 12:45:24 PM »

This just gets too funny....check out this one: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Wicca%20&%20Witchcraft/signs_of_satan.htm

Wow.  Just, wow.
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« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2005, 03:36:25 PM »

I suppose, after seeing some of those links and also reading about Benny Hinn's outlandish heresies, at the risk of contardicting myself, some things/people are deserving of ridicule - there seems to be no other sane response to them.

Nonetheless, ridicule is dangerous and must only be applied with a scalpel, not a broadsword. In other words, with discernment and only when no other response - including silence - is appropriate.
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« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2005, 03:49:00 PM »

The REAL Pope of America... http://photos1.blogger.com/img/190/2076/1024/YodaPope1.jpg http://www.freakingnews.com/entries/10000/10448cIKH_w.jpg  Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2005, 04:26:21 PM »

It's pretty sad how petty you guys are getting.  While I disagree with Pat Robertson on a lot of stuff, and think he puts his foot in many ofirices on his body, I think broadbrushing evangelical Christians is pretty lame.  Not to mention, not very Christ-like.  Has any of you prayed for him or Mr. Hinn, or are you too busy thinking of the next cutting remark you can say about them.  Do you really think all evangelicals are like them? If so you are very mistaken.  A lot of us are concerned about the same issues you are-abortion, moral standards plummeting, poverty,etc.  We are not all holy laughing, feel-good worship-chorus singing, liberal minded, pro choicers.  While I am on my soapbox, I will throw out one more thing.  A lot of you claim protestants go to church and it's centered around making us feel good.  At the same time, I see where a lot of converts to Orthodoxy say that the first time they went to an Orthodox church, it just felt right and felt like I was coming home.  Kind of ironic, huh.

Okay, I am done venting and will come down off my high horse now.  Seriously, I am seriously investigating the Orthodox faith and am drawn toward it.  I even agree with a lot of the doctrines now that I have investigated what they really mean and are based on.

Sorry if I offended anyone, just felt like I had to say it.

Mike
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« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2005, 04:40:05 PM »

Mike:

Get A Grip!!!!! Nobody is broadbrushing anybody. I know many pious and devout evangelicals who would probably agree with this blog site. Additionally, a lot of those converts who say Orhtodoxy "feels right" came from those swinging charismatic churches and have not fully developed what is known as orthopraxis. Actually, it takes a life time to develop. So Mikey, put your bleeding heart back on your sleeve and buck up

Dan  Embarrassed
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« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2005, 05:00:57 PM »

My tone was probably not good, and the broadbrushing I refer to is not all in this thread. 

This was probably not a good thread for me to post to as I am struggling with my faith right now, and am trying to be more Christ-like.  I apologize for my tone in the post.





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« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2005, 07:04:12 PM »

Mike:

Forget about it
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« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2005, 07:54:44 PM »

No problem, Serb.  I think you and I just got off on the wrong foot.  I am not as pious and self righteous as I sounded.  Look forward to posting with you in the future in a better way.

Mike
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« Reply #63 on: November 30, 2005, 09:51:51 AM »

liberal minded, pro choicers.ÂÂ  

huh? Huh  How on earth did you come to that conclusion?  I've certainly never thought of Evangelicals as being "liberal" or "pro-choice"...quite the opposite.  I've never felt more "free" and uncondemned to be a political free thinker as when I joined the Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #64 on: November 30, 2005, 12:05:19 PM »

Beavis:

I think it was that he was writing in heated thought and meant to say conservative pro-lifers.

Serb
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« Reply #65 on: December 01, 2005, 01:00:18 PM »

Hey guys

I actually meant it the way I wrote it, but meant it from a theological viewpoint.  I have seen a lot of ex-Protestants on this and another forum say they converted because their Protestant churches were to liberal doctrinally, denying the Trinity, being pro gay marriage, gay priests, etc, and  a politically correct, watered down Gospel being preached, etc. 
Although I am from a conservative protestant background, I am being pulled toward Orthodoxy.  I think it's only a matter of time... Smiley

Mike
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« Reply #66 on: December 01, 2005, 04:03:08 PM »

ahhhh, yes Searching.  I know what you mean.  But these Protestant Churches generally are mainline ones which have gone astray.  Particularly Lutheran, Reformed, Presbyterian, Methodist, and Anglican.  The ones which I think we are "picking on" in this thread are ones which may be conservative in theology but have certain other unsavory elements to it, such as the self-righteousness of Pat Robertson and the looniness of Benny Hinn.
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« Reply #67 on: December 01, 2005, 04:42:59 PM »

Beavis;

I mixed points about picking on them specifically with picking on Protestants in general into one overly self-righteous post, didn't I?  I still think Pat and Benny need to be prayed for more than ridiculed, but like they say for the free-for-all forum, be ready for some polemic discussion.

I don't consider Benny a Christian at all, and I live where Pat is based, so I get to see some of his good side.  He's not all bad, he just speaks without thinking.  He does a lot of mercy ministries where medical assistance is sent to poor countries, etc.  So I don't think he steals all the money that's sent in, like Benny Hinn might do.  And I don't think he's in the same class as far as preaching weird, off the wall doctrine.  But I can agree that he's a very abrasive dude. 

When he commented about needing to assasinate the Venezuelan president, some people I talked to thought even though it was stupid to say, it really was true.  In other words:  he says what our government thinks and is too timid to say.  Not very Christian of him, was it?
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« Reply #68 on: December 01, 2005, 04:53:45 PM »

Actually, I find nothing intrinsically wrong with what he said.  After all, we wouldn't harp on any Christian leader during the '40's for saying that Hitler needed to be assassinated.  It's an objective moral fact: some dictators need to be assassinated to save the lives of potential genocide victims.  My only problem with it, however, was his specific choice.  I mean, when it comes down to it, nearly 2/3 of the collection of world leaders need to be assassinated for that matter.  Why did he narrow it down to this particular one?  To me it all sounds like part of his political agenda.  I find it interesting that he never called for the assassination of any FASCIST dictator.  He seems to have no problem at all with fascism.  He only seems to find problems with MARXIST dictators.  His choice of who needs to be assassinated and who doesn't seems to be clouded by his ultra-rightist views.  But that said, I do not find any problem with stating that a heinous dictator should be assassinated.
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« Reply #69 on: December 01, 2005, 09:59:28 PM »

As unappealing as Chavez is, he has been democratically elected, is well-liked by all Venezuelans I know, and even survived a recall vote that was recognized as fair by respected institutions. I think there is some possibility he could become an authoritarian leader--he's certainly a demagogue--but calling him a dictator in need of assassination is just silly.
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« Reply #70 on: December 01, 2005, 10:01:55 PM »

When I started this discussion, I didn't realize that it would take on a life of its own for so long. But I have enjoyed reading the comments and responding. And a welcome to Searching who is well searching.  ARen't we a motley lot. But then that's Orthodoxy.
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« Reply #71 on: December 01, 2005, 11:32:00 PM »

When I started this discussion, I didn't realize that it would take on a life of its own for so long. But I have enjoyed reading the comments and responding. And a welcome to Searching who is well searching.  ARen't we a motley lot. But then that's Orthodoxy.

Dude, this is an internet message board.  Never assume anything.  Wink
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« Reply #72 on: December 02, 2005, 11:54:04 AM »

Back at you E!  Cheesy
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