Author Topic: Letter from Metropolitan Ambrose of Kalavryta & Aigialeia on EP-MP relations  (Read 569 times)

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Offline rakovsky

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This October, Met. Ambrose of Kalavryta & Aigialeia (pictured) appealed to Pat. Bartholomew to reconcile with the MP.
(Καλαβρύτων σε Οικουμενικό: ''Παναγιώτατε δεν είναι ώρα για περαιτέρω σχίσματα και διαιρέσεις'', https://www.romfea.gr/epikairotita-xronika/24136-kalabruton-se-oikoumeniko-panagiotate-den-einai-ora-gia-peraitero-sxismata-kai-diaireseis)
I wrote to thank him for encouraging reconciliation, asked him how many Greek clergy shared his views, and said:
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The new schism between the Moscow Patriarchate and the Ecumenical Patriarchate is painful to me because I love Orthodoxy, as well as both patriarchates. Orthodoxy is the continuation of the early church of the Church fathers, and Greek culture and the bishops of the Greek world have played a major role through the centuries. I have had major respect for Patriarch Bartholomew because of his work in inter-church relations, ecumenical dialogues, and global peace initiatives.
I wrote that recent statements from within the Ecumenical Patriarchate have been confusing for me, such as claims to powers over the whole church that reminded me of certain papal powers to which EOs historically objected. I highlighted that I don't know what to think about the supposed transcript of the two patriarchs' August meeting, in which Pat. Bartholomew sounded coarser than I would expect, like (to Pat. Kyril):
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Επικαλείσθε Μακαριώτατε τα εκατομμύρια των πιστών σας και την πολιτική δύναμη. Όμως από αυτά τα εκατομμύρια, πόσοι είναι βαπτισμένοι; Πόσοι εκκλησιάζονται; Η Ορθοδοξία δεν είχε ποτέ ως κριτήριο τους αριθμούς αλλά μόνο τους ιερούς κανόνες, την παράδοση και την κανονική Τάξη.

(SOURCE: https://orthodoxia.info/news/%CE%B1%CF%80%CE%BF%CE%BA%CE%BB%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%BF-%CE%BF%CE%B9-%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%AC%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%B3%CE%BF%CE%B9-%CF%84%CF%89%CE%BD-%CF%80%CE%B1%CF%84%CF%81%CE%B9%CE%B1%CF%81/)

Regarding whether each country should have its own church, I added:
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Although I don't have a personal preference, my impression is that the Church's tradition is that each autocephalous Church covers a broad territory, often with several cultures inside, like the Moscow Patriarch and the "Rus Lands", the Pope and Western Europe, Alexandria's Patriarch and Africa.
However, some countries like Georgia do have their own national churches, so I think that there is not a church-wide rule either way. I noted that in his appeal, Met. Ambrose had said:
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Στη συνέχεια έχουμε και κάποια χρονίζοντα προβλήματα με τη δική μας Εκκλησία. Οι Ιεροί Κανόνες διά του ιερού Φωτίου ορίζουν, ότι «είωθε τά εκκλησιαστικά τοις πολιτικοίς συμμεταβάλλεσθε», (1) δηλ. ότι τα εκκλησιαστικά Σύνορα συμμορφώνονται και αλλάζουν, ακολουθώντας τις πολιτικές εξελίξεις. ... Δυστυχώς αυτό δεν έχει εφαρμογή στην Εκκλησία της Ελλάδος, όπου η Ορθόδοξος Εκκλησία είναι κομματιασμένη σε πέντε τεμάχια! ... Τα παραπάνω αποδεικνύουν, ότι ο Παναγιώτατος Οικουμενικός Πατριάρχης κ. Βαρθολομαίος, καθώς επίσης και οι Προκάτοχοί Του, ΚΑΤΑΠΑΤΕΙ, ΠΕΡΙΦΡΟΝΕΙ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΡΑΒΙΑΖΕΙ ΤΟΥΣ ΙΕΡΟΥΣ ΚΑΝΟΝΕΣ, δηλ. το Εκκλησιαστικό Σύνταγμα!

Met. Ambrose wrote me back this November, and according to Google Translate (which comes across very awkwardly) he opens with:
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Με ιδιαιτεραν χαραν ελαβομεν υμετεραν επιστολην και ανεγνωμεν αυτην με ιδιαιτεραν προσοχην και ενδιαφερον. Κατα πρωτον ευχαριστουμεν δια την προς την ταπεινοτητα μας εκτιμησιν, η οποια εκδηλωνεται με την επιστολην σας. Κατα δευτερον συγχαιρομεν υμας δια την εντονον ορθοδοξον πιστιν και γνωσιν αυτης.

It is with great joy that we receive a letter and acknowledge it with particular care and interest. First of all, we thank you for our humble appreciation, which is manifested in your letter. Secondly, we give our word of thanks to the orthodoxy and its knowledge.
Would someone who knows Greek be interested in the rest of the letter, in order to read it for me?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 02:58:15 PM by rakovsky »
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline rakovsky

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I am pasting the letter from Met. Ambrose in case someone will be interested:



Google Translate can have serious mistakes. For the first several sentences, Google gives:
Quote
It is with great joy that we receive a letter and acknowledge it with particular care and interest.
First of all, we thank you for our humble appreciation, which is manifested in your letter. Secondly, we give our word of thanks to the orthodoxy and its knowledge. We agree with your analytical positions, as a consequence, as irrelevant, to the relations of the two Patriarchs for the Ukrainian question. Unfortunately, the Ecumenical Patriarch has, as scriptural writers, holy tendencies and positions, looked for the Orthodox tradition, the Papacy, etc.

Με ιδιαιτεραν χαραν ελαβομεν υμετεραν επιστολην και ανεγνωμεν αυτην με ιδιαιτεραν προσοχην και ενδιαφερον.
Κατα πρωτον ευχαριστουμεν δια την προς την ταπεινοτητα μας εκτιμησιν, η οποια εκδηλωνεται με την επιστολην σας. Κατα δευτερον συγχαιρομεν υμας δια την εντονον ορθοδοξον πιστιν και γνωσιν αυτης. Συμφωνουμεν με τας αναλυτικας θεσεις σας, ως προς το προκυψαν, ως μη ωφειλεν, εις τας σχεσεις των δυο Πατριρχειων δια το Ουκρανικον ζητημα. Δυστυχως ο Παναγιωτατος Πατριαρχης μας εχει, ως γραφετε, ηυετικας τασεις και θεσεις, ξενα προς την Ορθοδοξον παραδοσιν, τας Παπικας κ.λπ.
If you like, I invite you to correct the above or provide your own translation.
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline Apostolos

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Well it's written in Katharevousa Greek which is older than everyday street language, and Google Translate never did a good job translating Katharevousa Greek into English. Let me give it a try:

Quote
My dear,

           We received your letter with great joy and we read it with particular attention and interest.
           Firstly, we thank you for the appreciation towards our humbleness which is manifested in your letter. Secondly, we congratulate you for your strong orthodox faith and your knowledge of it.
           We agree with your analytical positions, concerning the relationship between the two Patriarchates over the Ukrainian question, which has caused a needless trouble. Unfortunately, the Ecumenical Patriarch has, as you have put it, foreign to the Orthodox tradition Papal authoritarian tendencies and positions etc.
          We pray to the Lord that will endow you with fruitful health for both body and soul, and with abundant Grace.
          Have a Merry and Blessed Christmas.
          For these we pray to the Lord.

+Met. Ambrose of Kalavryta & Aigialeia
   
Ἦχος Πρῶτος

Τέχνη μελουργός, σούς ἀγασθεῖσα κρότους
Πρώτην νέμει σοὶ τάξιν, ὦ τῆς ἀξίας
Ἦχος ὁ πρῶτος μουσική κληθείς τέχνη
Πρῶτος παρ'ἡμῶν εὐλογείσθω τοῖς λόγοις.
Τὰ πρῶτα πρῶτε τῶν καλῶν λαχῶν φέρεις
Πρωτεῖα νίκης πανταχοῦ πάντων ἔχεις.

Offline rakovsky

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Thanks, Apostolos.
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20