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Offline WPM

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Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« on: December 06, 2018, 11:20:14 AM »
So, ... Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ... Thanks

Offline theistgal

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2018, 03:11:10 PM »
So, ... Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ... Thanks

Isn't that the entire Faith?
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Offline Luke

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2018, 03:20:29 PM »
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.  Amen.

Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2018, 03:22:04 PM »
So, ... Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ... Thanks

Isn't that the entire Faith?

Little prayer book devotionals

Offline theistgal

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2018, 04:02:26 PM »
So, ... Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ... Thanks

Isn't that the entire Faith?

Little prayer book devotionals

I don't think the Orthodox have a whole lot of those. They're not as big on "private devotions" as the Catholics are. Not saying either way is right or wrong, just a different emphasis.

To me, the Divine Liturgy is chock-full of devotion to the Holy Trinity, as well as to the Theotokos -- way more so than any RC Mass I've ever attended to, even the most devout. Maybe that's why they don't need the "little devotions" as much.

Also, just a suggestion: it would help a lot if you could expand your posts a bit. For example, this one could have been:

"What do you think about having a private devotion to the Holy Trinity, such as may be found in some little prayer book devotionals I've seen recently, such as this one?" (then provide an example)
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 04:04:04 PM by theistgal »
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Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2018, 04:49:43 PM »
So, ... Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ... Thanks

Isn't that the entire Faith?

Little prayer book devotionals

I don't think the Orthodox have a whole lot of those. They're not as big on "private devotions" as the Catholics are. Not saying either way is right or wrong, just a different emphasis.

To me, the Divine Liturgy is chock-full of devotion to the Holy Trinity, as well as to the Theotokos -- way more so than any RC Mass I've ever attended to, even the most devout. Maybe that's why they don't need the "little devotions" as much.

Also, just a suggestion: it would help a lot if you could expand your posts a bit. For example, this one could have been:

"What do you think about having a private devotion to the Holy Trinity, such as may be found in some little prayer book devotionals I've seen recently, such as this one?" (then provide an example)


Yes, the Liturgy is offered to the Holy Trinity.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2018, 05:05:36 PM »
So, ... Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ... Thanks

Isn't that the entire Faith?

Little prayer book devotionals

I don't think the Orthodox have a whole lot of those. They're not as big on "private devotions" as the Catholics are. Not saying either way is right or wrong, just a different emphasis.

To me, the Divine Liturgy is chock-full of devotion to the Holy Trinity, as well as to the Theotokos -- way more so than any RC Mass I've ever attended to, even the most devout. Maybe that's why they don't need the "little devotions" as much.

Also, just a suggestion: it would help a lot if you could expand your posts a bit. For example, this one could have been:

"What do you think about having a private devotion to the Holy Trinity, such as may be found in some little prayer book devotionals I've seen recently, such as this one?" (then provide an example)

On this point, our prayerbooks are filled with Akathists, including a very popular one to Our Sweetest Lord Jesus Christ, which the Jordanville Prayerbook and most others have, as well as the Book of Akathists.  All of these, and the Psalters, are chock-full of Trinitarian glorifications.   One could also argue that the Divine Liturgy is a corporate devotion to the Holy Trinity.   The Trisagion as used and understood by the Eastern Orthodox is also Trinitarian and could be used as a devotion to the Trinity; the Oriental Orthodox view it as primarily Christological, hence the Theopaschite clause added by St. Peter the Fuller.

Now, in Orthodoxy we strongly associate the Trinity with the descent of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost; this is probably why in the Eastern Rites there is no Trinity Sunday after Pentecost.  One will find substantial specifically Trinitarian content in the Pentecostarion in the form of Matins for Pentecost, and the other offices associated with that feast, and to a lesser extent the Baptism of our Lord.

Finally, since the descent of the Holy Spirit occurred in the Sixth Hour, one could regard the office of Sext in a highly Trinitarian context and use it as a devotion to the Trinity as a whole in keeping with every aspect of the Orthodox tradition.  Pursuant to that WPM if you want to participate in an existing devotion to the Trinity, you should join Mor Ephrem’s Sexting thread (which is about praying the Sixth Hour, or Sext, and not about anything risque; Mor is reclaiming the word sexting to mean something holy rather than something deeply perverse).

Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2018, 05:32:40 PM »
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.  Amen.

Amen.

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2018, 05:38:10 PM »
By the way, what does "sweetest" mean in the context of the prayer?

I don't mean to derail the thread .
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Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2018, 05:55:24 PM »
By the way, what does "sweetest" mean in the context of the prayer?

I don't mean to derail the thread .

In the Orthodox Jordanville Prayer book some Akathists address the Lord as Sweetest Jesus.

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2018, 05:59:23 PM »
Hmm. Thanks.

It probably doesn't mean something like "He's the sweetest person I've ever met," does it?
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Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2018, 06:00:39 PM »
Hmm. Thanks.

It probably doesn't mean something like "He's the sweetest person I've ever met," does it?

No, the Akathist goes - Sweetest Jesus -

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2018, 06:24:23 PM »
Thank you.
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Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2018, 07:36:11 PM »
So, ... Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ... Thanks

Isn't that the entire Faith?

Little prayer book devotionals

I don't think the Orthodox have a whole lot of those. They're not as big on "private devotions" as the Catholics are. Not saying either way is right or wrong, just a different emphasis.

To me, the Divine Liturgy is chock-full of devotion to the Holy Trinity, as well as to the Theotokos -- way more so than any RC Mass I've ever attended to, even the most devout. Maybe that's why they don't need the "little devotions" as much.

Also, just a suggestion: it would help a lot if you could expand your posts a bit. For example, this one could have been:

"What do you think about having a private devotion to the Holy Trinity, such as may be found in some little prayer book devotionals I've seen recently, such as this one?" (then provide an example)

So isn't the Catholic Mary treated like an idol? Not sure.

Offline theistgal

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2018, 08:36:26 PM »
So, ... Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ... Thanks

Isn't that the entire Faith?

Little prayer book devotionals

I don't think the Orthodox have a whole lot of those. They're not as big on "private devotions" as the Catholics are. Not saying either way is right or wrong, just a different emphasis.

To me, the Divine Liturgy is chock-full of devotion to the Holy Trinity, as well as to the Theotokos -- way more so than any RC Mass I've ever attended to, even the most devout. Maybe that's why they don't need the "little devotions" as much.

Also, just a suggestion: it would help a lot if you could expand your posts a bit. For example, this one could have been:

"What do you think about having a private devotion to the Holy Trinity, such as may be found in some little prayer book devotionals I've seen recently, such as this one?" (then provide an example)

So isn't the Catholic Mary treated like an idol? Not sure.

I'm sure you're aware that this is a standard Protestant charge against both Catholics *and* Orthodox.
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Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2018, 08:49:07 PM »
So, ... Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ... Thanks

Isn't that the entire Faith?

Little prayer book devotionals

I don't think the Orthodox have a whole lot of those. They're not as big on "private devotions" as the Catholics are. Not saying either way is right or wrong, just a different emphasis.

To me, the Divine Liturgy is chock-full of devotion to the Holy Trinity, as well as to the Theotokos -- way more so than any RC Mass I've ever attended to, even the most devout. Maybe that's why they don't need the "little devotions" as much.

Also, just a suggestion: it would help a lot if you could expand your posts a bit. For example, this one could have been:

"What do you think about having a private devotion to the Holy Trinity, such as may be found in some little prayer book devotionals I've seen recently, such as this one?" (then provide an example)

So isn't the Catholic Mary treated like an idol? Not sure.

I'm sure you're aware that this is a standard Protestant charge against both Catholics *and* Orthodox.

Why ... I've been to a Catholic Church before.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 08:50:11 PM by WPM »

Offline theistgal

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2018, 09:44:18 PM »
So, ... Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ... Thanks

Isn't that the entire Faith?

Little prayer book devotionals

I don't think the Orthodox have a whole lot of those. They're not as big on "private devotions" as the Catholics are. Not saying either way is right or wrong, just a different emphasis.

To me, the Divine Liturgy is chock-full of devotion to the Holy Trinity, as well as to the Theotokos -- way more so than any RC Mass I've ever attended to, even the most devout. Maybe that's why they don't need the "little devotions" as much.

Also, just a suggestion: it would help a lot if you could expand your posts a bit. For example, this one could have been:

"What do you think about having a private devotion to the Holy Trinity, such as may be found in some little prayer book devotionals I've seen recently, such as this one?" (then provide an example)

So isn't the Catholic Mary treated like an idol? Not sure.

I'm sure you're aware that this is a standard Protestant charge against both Catholics *and* Orthodox.

Why ... I've been to a Catholic Church before.

And what did you see there that made you "not sure" if the Catholics treated Mary as an "idol"?
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Offline Luke

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2018, 09:49:26 PM »
The Protestants have kind of a blind side and think that our prayer to Mary stops with her.  They do not realize that we are asking her to pray for us.

Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2018, 10:18:13 PM »
So, ... Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ... Thanks

Isn't that the entire Faith?

Little prayer book devotionals

I don't think the Orthodox have a whole lot of those. They're not as big on "private devotions" as the Catholics are. Not saying either way is right or wrong, just a different emphasis.

To me, the Divine Liturgy is chock-full of devotion to the Holy Trinity, as well as to the Theotokos -- way more so than any RC Mass I've ever attended to, even the most devout. Maybe that's why they don't need the "little devotions" as much.

Also, just a suggestion: it would help a lot if you could expand your posts a bit. For example, this one could have been:

"What do you think about having a private devotion to the Holy Trinity, such as may be found in some little prayer book devotionals I've seen recently, such as this one?" (then provide an example)

So isn't the Catholic Mary treated like an idol? Not sure.

I'm sure you're aware that this is a standard Protestant charge against both Catholics *and* Orthodox.

Why ... I've been to a Catholic Church before.

And what did you see there that made you "not sure" if the Catholics treated Mary as an "idol"?
 
I saw the papal version of Virgin Mary next to a picture of Pope Benedict XVI
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 10:19:27 PM by WPM »

Offline theistgal

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2018, 12:33:49 AM »
 
I saw the papal version of Virgin Mary next to a picture of Pope Benedict XVI

What does the "papal version" of the Virgin Mary look like?

(btw, kind of off topic but funny, I asked a cute little girl at our church a few weeks ago if she'd ever heard the story of Cinderella, and she said, "Yeah, but I heard a different virgin of it."  ;D  )
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 12:33:55 AM by theistgal »
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Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2018, 10:18:23 AM »
 
I saw the papal version of Virgin Mary next to a picture of Pope Benedict XVI

What does the "papal version" of the Virgin Mary look like?

White dress, gold crown.

Offline theistgal

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2018, 11:37:30 AM »
 
I saw the papal version of Virgin Mary next to a picture of Pope Benedict XVI

What does the "papal version" of the Virgin Mary look like?

White dress, gold crown.

And what colors are her non-papal dress and crown?
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Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2018, 11:54:53 AM »
 
I saw the papal version of Virgin Mary next to a picture of Pope Benedict XVI

What does the "papal version" of the Virgin Mary look like?

White dress, gold crown.

And what colors are her non-papal dress and crown?

Supposedly red and blue ... Like the coronation of her as the Queen of heaven.

Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2018, 11:56:48 AM »
Is this Roman Catholic saint like a little figure with a crown

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2018, 12:02:24 PM »
So are you disturbed by the concept of the Theotokos as Queen? Or do you just dislike the style of the artwork?
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Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2018, 12:04:03 PM »
So are you disturbed by the concept of the Theotokos as Queen? Or do you just dislike the style of the artwork?

No, I got used to it over the years. 

There is the one of Revelation of the 12 stars upon her head.


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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2018, 12:05:22 PM »
So are you disturbed by the concept of the Theotokos as Queen? Or do you just dislike the style of the artwork?

No, I got used to it over the years. 

There is the one of Revelation of the 12 stars upon her head.

Then why did you earlier describe it as something that made you think the RC worshipped Mary as an "idol"?
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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2018, 12:29:24 PM »
What does the "papal version" of the Virgin Mary look like?
White dress, gold crown.

You mean, Our Lady of Fatima, or how she looked like when she allegedly appeared to the children in Fatima, Portugal?
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Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2018, 12:39:11 PM »
More like, .. The Supernatural Faith

Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2018, 01:23:42 PM »
So are you disturbed by the concept of the Theotokos as Queen? Or do you just dislike the style of the artwork?

No, I got used to it over the years. 

There is the one of Revelation of the 12 stars upon her head.

Then why did you earlier describe it as something that made you think the RC worshipped Mary as an "idol"?

I don't know ..

I'm including everyone at OC.net in my daily prayers to Virgin Mary to be submitted to Jesus.

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #30 on: December 07, 2018, 01:29:10 PM »
What does the "papal version" of the Virgin Mary look like?
White dress, gold crown.

You mean, Our Lady of Fatima, or how she looked like when she allegedly appeared to the children in Fatima, Portugal?

That's probably what he's talking about. I'm not big on the Fatima statue myself. However, I don't think it proves anything, one way or the other, about whether or not the RC's worship Mary as an idol. Some individual RCs may very well do so, but the official teaching doesn't support it. We ask Mary to pray for us to God -- just as the Orthodox do.
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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #31 on: December 07, 2018, 01:30:01 PM »
So are you disturbed by the concept of the Theotokos as Queen? Or do you just dislike the style of the artwork?

No, I got used to it over the years. 

There is the one of Revelation of the 12 stars upon her head.

Then why did you earlier describe it as something that made you think the RC worshipped Mary as an "idol"?

I don't know ..

I'm including everyone at OC.net in my daily prayers to Virgin Mary to be submitted to Jesus.

 :D
This post gave me autism.

Since when has a Hierarch done anything for you? . . .

Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #32 on: December 07, 2018, 02:01:43 PM »
What does the "papal version" of the Virgin Mary look like?
White dress, gold crown.

You mean, Our Lady of Fatima, or how she looked like when she allegedly appeared to the children in Fatima, Portugal?

That's probably what he's talking about. I'm not big on the Fatima statue myself. However, I don't think it proves anything, one way or the other, about whether or not the RC's worship Mary as an idol. Some individual RCs may very well do so, but the official teaching doesn't support it. We ask Mary to pray for us to God -- just as the Orthodox do.

Isn't that like 1917? If you think about it 1900 is only a 100 years from 2000

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #33 on: December 07, 2018, 02:52:50 PM »
Hmm. Thanks.

It probably doesn't mean something like "He's the sweetest person I've ever met," does it?

It is meant in the context of infinite love, not in a context that is even remotely sexual or inappropriate.   You can read the Akathist here: http://www.myriobiblos.gr/texts/english/prayerbook/main.htm

(Note for some reason it seems to not be loading on iOS in Safari)

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #34 on: December 07, 2018, 03:50:39 PM »
Thanks.
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"Some people only feel good when they are praising the Lord." - Coptic bishop

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Offline Ainnir

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2018, 04:13:25 PM »
The images of honey from the OT come to mind, too.  I actually can't think of any quotes off the top of my head, though.   :o I may be off base.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2018, 04:21:33 PM »
The commandments are called sweeter than honey somewhere in the psalms.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2018, 05:38:15 PM »
The commandments are called sweeter than honey somewhere in the psalms.

Psalm 19 (Hebrew numbering).
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Since when has a Hierarch done anything for you? . . .

Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2018, 08:15:14 PM »
So are you disturbed by the concept of the Theotokos as Queen? Or do you just dislike the style of the artwork?

No, I got used to it over the years. 

There is the one of Revelation of the 12 stars upon her head.

Then why did you earlier describe it as something that made you think the RC worshipped Mary as an "idol"?

Certain kinds of RC's do worship Mary

Offline theistgal

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2018, 08:55:34 PM »
Certain kinds of RC's do worship Mary

If they give her the worship that's due only to God, they're committing a sin. That's Church teaching. Not every Catholic (or Orthodox) obeys their Church's teachings, right?
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Offline biro

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2018, 09:03:58 PM »
Pretty sure almost no Roman Catholics consider St. Mary an actual part of the godhead, as in the Trinity.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist/works Warning: stories have mature content.

"Some people only feel good when they are praising the Lord." - Coptic bishop

Show me the meaning of the word

Leave me alone, I was only singing

"You know, I don't know any writer who doesn't hate writing, so I guess what I'm saying is, I hate my life." - Lawrence O'Donnell

"I like fake violence and real peace." - John Fugelsang

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2018, 09:40:18 PM »
Our whole faith is around the Holy Trinity, even though not every prayer mention the Holy Trinity as such. Some, however, do, such as the whole opening prayers.

"In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen." - Three persons of the Holy Trinity.

"Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy upon us." - Holy is mentioned three times, because God is in three persons.

"Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit;" - Three persons again.

"All-holy Trinity, have mercy upon us. Lord, be merciful to our sins. Master, forgive our transgressions. Holy One, visit us and heal our infirmities, for Your name's sake." - Holy Trinity mentioned in the first sentence. The second sentence ("Lord") is for the Father, the third ("Master") to the Son, the fourth ("Holy One") to the Holy Spirit.

I hope this helps, buddy!
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Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2018, 10:24:19 PM »
Our whole faith is around the Holy Trinity, even though not every prayer mention the Holy Trinity as such. Some, however, do, such as the whole opening prayers.

"In the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen." - Three persons of the Holy Trinity.

"Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, have mercy upon us." - Holy is mentioned three times, because God is in three persons.

"Glory to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit;" - Three persons again.

"All-holy Trinity, have mercy upon us. Lord, be merciful to our sins. Master, forgive our transgressions. Holy One, visit us and heal our infirmities, for Your name's sake." - Holy Trinity mentioned in the first sentence. The second sentence ("Lord") is for the Father, the third ("Master") to the Son, the fourth ("Holy One") to the Holy Spirit.

I hope this helps, buddy!

I understand this.... ^^^

Offline WPM

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2018, 11:04:10 PM »
Certain kinds of RC's do worship Mary

If they give her the worship that's due only to God, they're committing a sin. That's Church teaching. Not every Catholic (or Orthodox) obeys their Church's teachings, right?

If you like to follow rules.

Offline theistgal

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Re: Would you start a devotion to the Holy Trinity? ...
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2018, 12:02:52 AM »
Certain kinds of RC's do worship Mary

If they give her the worship that's due only to God, they're committing a sin. That's Church teaching. Not every Catholic (or Orthodox) obeys their Church's teachings, right?

If you like to follow rules.

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"Sometimes, you just gotta say, 'OK, I still have nine live, two-headed animals' and move on.'' (owner of Coney Island freak show, upon learning he'd been outbid on a 5-legged puppy)