OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 30, 2014, 01:01:11 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: The Rosary  (Read 4249 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Robert
"Amazing"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,442



« on: March 03, 2003, 01:37:05 AM »

I know we're not supposed to talk about RC stuff, as this is an Orthodox board, but I had a question on the Rosary and how it relates to Orthodoxy.

I've heard several ROCOR priests publically condemn the rosary as nothing more than heresy. I know it isn't part of the eastern spiritual tradition, but was curious if anyone here actively prayed the rosary, and what their views on it are.



Bobby

Logged
Hypo-Ortho
Guest
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2003, 02:09:33 AM »

I know we're not supposed to talk about RC stuff, as this is an Orthodox board, but I had a question on the Rosary and how it relates to Orthodoxy.

I've heard several ROCOR priests publically condemn the rosary as nothing more than heresy. I know it isn't part of the eastern spiritual tradition, but was curious if anyone here actively prayed the rosary, and what their views on it are.

Bobby


Bobby, I'm neither a member of the ROCOR nor a practicioner of the RC Rosary (I much prefer the Jesus Prayer, whether I'm using my "chotki" [prayer rope] or not).  However, I do have a godson in the ROCOR, a convert from RCism, who tells me that his ROCOR priest has blessed him to pray the Latin Rosary.  Personally, as an Orthodox Catholic Christian, I see nothing heretical in the Rosary per se, but it is not in the EO tradition.  Unfortunately, there are those, even clergy (RC *and* EO), who see heresy everywhere, even where it is not.  Serge uses some Anglican forms of prayer--does that make him a heretic?

Hypo-Ortho

(modified *only* to correct a glaring error in spelling due to a "typo" and dyslexia)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2003, 12:50:46 PM by Hypo-Ortho » Logged
Brigid of Kildare
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 280



« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2003, 04:58:26 AM »

My ROCOR priest told me he had no objection to the Rosary at all, save for a certain reservation about the latter verse of the Ave Maria "pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death". He suggested the prayer "Rejoice, O Virgin Mother of God, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne the Saviour of our souls" as one to try in place of the Latin Ave if I wished. Another former Catholic enquirer at our Mission had his beads blessed by a visiting Archimandrite!

I find the Rosary a very powerful form of prayer and have always been interested in its history and development. I was glad that the Rosary was something I didn't have to give up and can't see where the heresy lies. I've tried to enter more fully into Orthodox spirituality so haven't been quite so regular in my praying of the Rosary of late.

I can recommend you to the excellent webpage at Serge's site on the subject:
http://www.angelfire.com/pa3/OldWorldBasic/Rosary.htm

I have a copy of the booklet recommended and would endorse that.

Brigid
Logged

Bríd Naomhtha, Mhuire na nGaeil, Guí Orainn
Robert
"Amazing"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,442



« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2003, 08:48:42 AM »

Thanks for your responses.

I agree too that the Rosary is an excellent prayer, and if it brings one closer to God, all the better.

It just makes me upset that some people are so like the pharisees and don't realize that prayer was created for men and not God. They have legalistic notions about what prayers God will answer and which he will reject.

bobby
Logged
Brigid of Kildare
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 280



« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2003, 10:09:59 AM »

Bobby,

I would agree with you about over-zealous heresy hunters. There are obvious differences in spiritual practice east and west but surely difference does not automatically equate to error? I welcome having the chance to practice both the Rosary and the Jesus Prayer.

I am glad that you raised the whole topic of devotional practice in any case. I have been wondering myself about which devotions from my Catholic past I can legitimately keep in my Orthodox present and future. What about the Stations of the Cross for example?

Brigid
Logged

Bríd Naomhtha, Mhuire na nGaeil, Guí Orainn
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 15,464


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2003, 12:21:19 PM »

In principle, I've got no problems with the Rosary, and see no reason for there to be a problem with it.  I've prayed it before, usually with the hope that I would make it a regular habit, but usually I fail after some time.  These days I've been wondering if I should start again, but I don't feel the same draw to it as I once did.  Maybe that's a function of being more satisfied with Orthodox spirituality to the point of not using anything else, but I don't know.  But certainly, I cannot see any problem with it.  

As far as what Catholic devotions converts to Orthodoxy could use, I would think that anything that didn't specifically have a problem with Orthodox theology could work.  So, for example, devotions surrounding the Immaculate Conception might not be the best for Orthodox, but I see no problem with the Rosary or the Stations of the Cross (during Lent, I usually go to local RC parishes and pray these with them, although I've never really done them privately).  I tend to think that the more popular RC devotions are the ones that usually don't conflict with Orthodox spirituality.    

My ROCOR priest told me he had no objection to the Rosary at all, save for a certain reservation about the latter verse of the Ave Maria "pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death".

Dear Brigid,

I would be very interested in hearing why your priest had a reservation regarding the last part of the Hail Mary, especially since it is basically this version that is used in the Syriac and Indian Orthodox Churches.
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,522


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2003, 01:20:19 PM »

Thanks for the good word about my site, Brigid. IMO those people mentioned here who allegedly denounce the Rosary and even the second half of the western version of the Hail Mary are being either ignorant or hateful. I have a Jordanville prayer book and while I can’t name the specific devotion that has it I know I’ve seen a prayer in there asking for prayer at the hour of our death.

Quote
In principle, I’ve got no problems with the Rosary, and see no reason for there to be a problem with it.  

Right. The basic parts of it are the Our Father, Hail Mary (Rejoice, O Virgin Mother of God) and Glory Be, as Orthodox as a klobuk.

Quote
I’ve prayed it before, usually with the hope that I would make it a regular habit, but usually I fail after some time.  These days I’ve been wondering if I should start again, but I don’t feel the same draw to it as I once did.  Maybe that's a function of being more satisfied with Orthodox spirituality to the point of not using anything else, but I don’t know.  But certainly, I cannot see any problem with it.

Right, and being satisfied with Orthodox spirituality such that you don’t want to borrow from another rite is a good thing, too. Actually, the Byzantine Catholics are supposed to be like that — just like the Orthodox with no mix’n’match — but in practice aren’t.

Quote
As far as what Catholic devotions converts to Orthodoxy could use, I would think that anything that didn't specifically have a problem with Orthodox theology could work.  So, for example, devotions surrounding the Immaculate Conception might not be the best for Orthodox, but I see no problem with the Rosary or the Stations of the Cross (during Lent, I usually go to local RC parishes and pray these with them, although I've never really done them privately).  I tend to think that the more popular RC devotions are the ones that usually don't conflict with Orthodox spirituality.

Of course that brings up the question of why one wants to convert if one wants to bring all his religious practices with him. But to be fair, as far as mixing and matching of sound practices from different rites goes, it does go on and is fine. If western Catholics can use the Passion icon of Mary (which they call Our Lady of Perpetual Help), then Eastern Christians can privately use the Rosary. See the page on my site (scrolling headlines) with Fr Serge Keleher’s remarks. I have what I call my over-50% rule. Thou shalt not mix and match in church (the Catholic Church agrees and in facts orders that) but privately if you commit to a rite, that rite should make up more than half your religious practices. That gives you up to 40% leeway to borrow/retain from other rites.
Logged

Brigid of Kildare
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 280



« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2003, 03:44:11 PM »

I've been trying to remember exactly what the issue was about the 'hour of our death' phrase but it was some time ago and I'm not sure now. Our priest certainly has no problem with people bringing rosaries to church. It sounds like the sort of people Bobby was talking about just have a knee-jerk reaction to anything Roman.

In general I have found that as I've entered more deeply into Orthodoxy, certain devotional practices from Catholicism have receded. I don't hanker after other forms of Marian devotion or Eucharistic adoration. I found that my first Orthodox Great Lent last year was a much more meaningful and joyful experience than Catholic Lent. Yet I still like to reflect on the Stations of the Cross and I missed my 'O' Antiphons at Advent. I also do a lot of prayer in Latin at home and when doing the Orthodox hours switch to Pater Noster and Credo etc. and sometimes chant the psalms in Latin (I'd love to have Latin translations of Orthodox prayers too).

I take the point that there's no sense in converting and bringing all your baggage with you, but I'm not one of those zealous converts who despises her former faith either. Our priest has cautioned us not to acquire a holier-than-thou convert mentality. One of the things I like about this site is that you don't see too many ultra-converts here. I subscribed for a while to another list when I first began exploring Orthodoxy only to realize that if I followed the path that some advocated I would be divorced and completely alienated from my family and friends in no time at all.

Serge thanks for your over 50% formula, very helpful.

BTW, I am to be chrismated at Pascha!

Brigid
Logged

Bríd Naomhtha, Mhuire na nGaeil, Guí Orainn
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,522


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2003, 03:57:31 PM »

Quote
Serge thanks for your over 50% formula, very helpful.

You’re welcome.

Quote
I don't hanker after other forms of Marian devotion or Eucharistic adoration.

That’s because you’re being fed and don’t need them. You can’t really belong to more than one rite, any more than (in our faith and culture) you can be properly married to more than one person at a time.

Quote
Yet I still like to reflect on the Stations of the Cross and I missed my 'O' Antiphons at Advent. I also do a lot of prayer in Latin at home and when doing the Orthodox hours switch to Pater Noster and Credo etc. and sometimes chant the psalms in Latin ... I'm not one of those zealous converts who despises her former faith either.

Good for you.

Quote
Our priest has cautioned us not to acquire a holier-than-thou convert mentality. One of the things I like about this site is that you don't see too many ultra-converts here. I subscribed for a while to another list when I first began exploring Orthodoxy only to realize that if I followed the path that some advocated I would be divorced and completely alienated from my family and friends in no time at all.


I understand that such miserable people, once they’re done driving their family and friends away, more than occasionally end up leaving Eastern Orthodoxy too, either burning out on religion completely or staying the same personality type and becoming an annoying, hateful zealot about some other faith or something else.
Logged

TonyS
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 705


« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2003, 08:42:47 PM »

Friends,

This is an intersting thread, even though I wonder why it is here and not in the converts' area.

I think that privately praying the Rosary or Stations of the Cross is acceptable if one finds that they lift one up to God and do not displace other prayer.  In spite of being a former RC and BC, I never was a fan of the Rosary.  It seemed like a lot of work and I could not meditate and count the beads/prayers at the same time.  Also, it seemed to be always changing.  

Further I think that what the BCs here have done with the rosary is a problem.  1) They have displaced other liturgical prayer with it, Rosary is not preparation for communion nor Matins, why then before liturgy publicly as a group?   2)  In the Greek Catholic parishes in Europe that I visited where they do pray the Rosary publicly they did not use the Latin form of the Hail Mary, they used the Orthodox form.  Apparently that is what BCs did here in Slavonic, once they started using English they just took what was available.  The same can be said for the "Glory..."  

For the converted RC (I was a Protestant to start with) I can understand the desire to hang on to it if that formed a part of one's personal prayer.  As for the BCs why they do what they do and how I still don't understand.  At least they are praying and that is commendable.

Best wishes,

Tony  
Logged

Tómame como al tequila, de un golpe y sin pensarlo. - Ricardo Arjona

I'd be a fool to surrender when I know I can be a contender
and if everbody's a sinner then everybody can be a winner
...
I'll see you when yo
Hypo-Ortho
Guest
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2003, 09:10:07 PM »

TonyS<<Further I think that what the BCs here have done with the rosary is a problem.  1) They have displaced other liturgical prayer with it, Rosary is not preparation for communion nor Matins, why then before liturgy publicly as a group?>>

This is an unfortunate "mixing" of rites (and in church yet!), a definite Latinization, Tony. The Ruthenian-rite BC parish to which I belonged before "adjusting" to EOxy, never did public Latin Rosary in church, but then, they never had Matins either, except for an extremely abridged form of Paschal Matins at about 8 PM on Holy Saturday, IOW, once a year.

However, I must say that we did do a nice folk-song rendition (with guitar yet!) of "Have you seen where they crucified my Lord?" at the Good Friday Vespers after the Plaschanitza was brought out.    Cry   But no Matins of Holy Saturday, no procession with the Plaschanitza around the outside of the church.  Whatever minimum that could be done was done in that BC parish.

Hypo-Ortho
« Last Edit: March 04, 2003, 09:16:42 PM by Hypo-Ortho » Logged
Hypo-Ortho
Guest
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2003, 09:28:50 PM »

This bothered me:

A prominent Ukrainian Greek-Catholic poster on an "Eastern Catholic-in-communion-with-Rome" website claims that *not only* Ukrainian Catholics, but *ALSO* Ukrainian Orthodox in Western Ukraine have Western devotions such as the Latin Rosary, Stations of the Cross and Benediction/Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament in their churches.  Can anyone verify the veracity of this statement?  Has anyone here been to Western Ukraine and personally viewed these Latin devotional practices being done in Ukrainian Orthodox churches?

Hypo-Ortho
Logged
TonyS
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 705


« Reply #12 on: March 04, 2003, 10:49:49 PM »

TonyS<<Further I think that what the BCs here have done with the rosary is a problem.  1) They have displaced other liturgical prayer with it, Rosary is not preparation for communion nor Matins, why then before liturgy publicly as a group?>>

This is an unfortunate "mixing" of rites (and in church yet!), a definite Latinization, Tony. The Ruthenian-rite BC parish to which I belonged before "adjusting" to EOxy, never did public Latin Rosary in church, but then, they never had Matins either, except for an extremely abridged form of Paschal Matins at about 8 PM on Holy Saturday, IOW, once a year.

However, I must say that we did do a nice folk-song rendition (with guitar yet!) of "Have you seen where they crucified my Lord?" at the Good Friday Vespers after the Plaschanitza was brought out.    Cry   But no Matins of Holy Saturday, no procession with the Plaschanitza around the outside of the church.  Whatever minimum that could be done was done in that BC parish.

Hypo-Ortho

Well Hypo, the parish I belonged to had Rosary before every Sunday liturgy.  Further, many parishes I became familiar with over time had the same thing.   We did have a nice Great Friday service, somewhat re-arranged time-wise but with the procession at Vespers not Matins.  Many BC parishes are unfortunately minimalist.
Logged

Tómame como al tequila, de un golpe y sin pensarlo. - Ricardo Arjona

I'd be a fool to surrender when I know I can be a contender
and if everbody's a sinner then everybody can be a winner
...
I'll see you when yo
TonyS
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 705


« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2003, 10:54:31 PM »

This bothered me:

A prominent Ukrainian Greek-Catholic poster on an "Eastern Catholic-in-communion-with-Rome" website claims that *not only* Ukrainian Catholics, but *ALSO* Ukrainian Orthodox in Western Ukraine have Western devotions such as the Latin Rosary, Stations of the Cross and Benediction/Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament in their churches.  Can anyone verify the veracity of this statement?  Has anyone here been to Western Ukraine and personally viewed these Latin devotional practices being done in Ukrainian Orthodox churches?

Hypo-Ortho

I was in Uzhhorod for a few days and I did not see anything Orthodox, only Greek Catholic as I was with a GC group.  

I have spent lots of time in Slovakia and I can offer some comments on the Orthodox there, at least with regard to some of their practices, if you are interested.

I can tell you that I know of a Ukrainian Orthodox parish in SWPA that apparently until about 15 years ago (maybe less) still did indeed have some form of Benediction/Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament.  

I do have a UO prayerbook that has the prayer rule of the 150 Hail Marys...but what differentiates that from the Rosary is the lack of meditations...I think that is significant.
Logged

Tómame como al tequila, de un golpe y sin pensarlo. - Ricardo Arjona

I'd be a fool to surrender when I know I can be a contender
and if everbody's a sinner then everybody can be a winner
...
I'll see you when yo
Orthodoc
Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,526

Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2003, 10:56:39 PM »

[A prominent Ukrainian Greek-Catholic poster on an "Eastern Catholic-in-communion-with-Rome" website claims that *not only* Ukrainian Catholics, but *ALSO* Ukrainian Orthodox in Western Ukraine have Western devotions such as the Latin Rosary, Stations of the Cross and Benediction/Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament in their churches.]

Is this the same 'Eastern Catholic in communion with Rome' that also  claims St Seraphim also said the Rosary on a regular basis?

Orthodoc
Logged

Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
Hypo-Ortho
Guest
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2003, 07:56:45 AM »

Orthodoc<<Is this the same 'Eastern Catholic in communion with Rome' that also  claims St Seraphim also said the Rosary on a regular basis?>>

Yes, Orthodoc, the very same.  The same one who claims an intimacy with Ukrainian Rite Cardinal Husar, John Paul II, Prince Charles of Wales, other Anglicans, and a host of other notables, including Orthodox Bishop Kallistos Ware, Metropolitan Nicholas of Amissos and Archbishop Vsevolod of Skopelis, and membership in the Prince Charles Society and Orientale Lumen.  The same one who claims a lineage of high Polish nobility (and disparages those who claim a lower level of Polish nobility), yet is somehow also *very* Ukrainian Greek Catholic "Orthodox in communion with Rome" and is also Romanian and Hungarian when the need arises.  The same one who claims martyrs and Russian Orthodox and Greek Catholic clergy in his family--he is related to everybody and anybody with a claim to fame, even the famed late Ukrainian Rite Greek-Catholic Metropolitan Andrei Sheptitsky of Lvov!  Does he sound like anyone you know?

Hypo-Ortho
« Last Edit: March 05, 2003, 10:26:14 AM by Hypo-Ortho » Logged
Orthodoc
Supporter & Defender Of Orthodoxy
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 2,526

Those who ignore history tend to repeat it.


« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2003, 11:11:31 AM »

[The same one who claims martyrs and Russian Orthodox and Greek Catholic clergy in his family--he is related to everybody and anybody with a claim to fame, even the famed late Ukrainian Rite Greek-Catholic Metropolitan Andrei Sheptitsky of Lvov!  Does he sound like anyone you know?]

Oh Yeh!  He sure does

Orthodoc
Logged

Oh Lord, Save thy people and bless thine inheritance.
Grant victory to the Orthodox Christians over their adversaries.
And by virtue of thy Cross preserve thy habitation.
James the Just
Guest
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2003, 03:07:20 PM »

Dear Brethern,

Some of us are members of both forums, and yes I know of who you speak of, but is it wise or correct to post in this manner ? I enjoy both forums and learn a great deal about the Church . But I believe these comments to be personal and should not be publically posted.

In Christ,
James
Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 15,464


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2003, 06:54:43 PM »

I fail to see the relevance of the last few posts to the topic of this thread.  Furthermore, it doesn't seem to befit the spirit of the liturgical season which we are entering (or have entered, in the case of a few of us), nor the spirit of Christian charity which we should try to uphold.

If someone can show me how these last few posts are related to the Rosary, charitable from a Christian POV, or profitable for one's spiritual preparation for Holy Week and Pascha, I might change my mind about how these posts have nothing to do with the topic, and would be better off deleted.
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
Hypo-Ortho
Guest
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2003, 07:27:11 PM »

Dear Brethern,

Some of us are members of both forums, and yes I know of who you speak of, but is it wise or correct to post in this manner ? I enjoy both forums and learn a great deal about the Church . But I believe these comments to be personal and should not be publically posted.

In Christ,
James

The simple point, James (and Mor), was to check on the veracity of the statements made *WITHOUT* naming either the individual or the forum where some statements were made, whether you think you recognize him/her or the forum or not.  There is no "ad hominem" here BECAUSE the individual is *not* named.  Neither is the forum.  But I still have not received any answer to my original question about whether or not certain Latin devotions, e.g., Benediction and Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament, Stations of the Cross, etc., have actually entered into the worship of the Western Ukrainian Orthodox parish churches, and as to whether anyone in this forum has been to Ukraine and personally has knowledge of such practices.  Such questions/discussions are ordinarily banned elsewhere.  Will that now be the case here too?  Lent has nothing to do with it.

Hypo-Ortho
« Last Edit: March 05, 2003, 07:40:55 PM by Hypo-Ortho » Logged
James the Just
Guest
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2003, 08:04:22 PM »

Brother Mor & Hypo,

You are both correct......to a point. Ridicule of another brother does not have a place in this thread, no matter if he is recongized or not. I apologize for my unrelated subject comment if it has offended any brethern.

I like to respect all brethern no matter what rite they are associated with.

And Brother Hypo, I cannot answer your question regarding the Rosary.

Pokoj,
James
Logged
Hypo-Ortho
Guest
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2003, 08:22:12 PM »

Brother Mor & Hypo,

You are both correct......to a point. Ridicule of another brother does not have a place in this thread, no matter if he is recongized or not. I apologize for my unrelated subject comment if it has offended any brethern.

I like to respect all brethern no matter what rite they are associated with.

And Brother Hypo, I cannot answer your question regarding the Rosary.

Pokoj,
James

Brat Jakub, pokuj do ciebie tez!  Peace to you also, Brother Mor.

I had no intention of offending, but to get at the truth.  If this offends, I am truly sorry and will cease posting on this thread and leave it to others to discover the truth, if they even care.

I beg your forgiveness and of all on the OrthodoxChristianity.netCommunity for all my offenses as we rapidly approach Cheesefare (Forgiveness) Sunday.

Hypo-Ortho
Logged
James the Just
Guest
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2003, 10:09:42 PM »

Brother Hypo,

You are a valuable part of this forum and post what you think is appropriate, please do not take offence with my response, I am a novice regarding Orthodoxy,and try to learn more about it here.I'm prone to read and listen then post. The Lenten period has begun for me and I should have known better.

Peace in Christ,
James
Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 15,464


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2003, 10:30:35 PM »

Dear Hypo,

The simple point, James (and Mor), was to check on the veracity of the statements made *WITHOUT* naming either the individual or the forum where some statements were made, whether you think you recognize him/her or the forum or not.  There is no "ad hominem" here BECAUSE the individual is *not* named.  Neither is the forum.

I recognise this, and that is why I was somewhat confused on how to address this, and yet I felt I must address it.  That you sought to check the veracity of these statements without naming either the individual or the forum is not what I had a problem with, for you seemed to do that with Orthodoc in the first few posts and got it settled, saying "Yes, Orthodoc, the very same."  But immediately after that statement (and the positive ID) came a lot of stuff that seemed to me to be at least unnecessary.  That is what puzzled me.  

But I still have not received any answer to my original question about whether or not certain Latin devotions, e.g., Benediction and Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament, Stations of the Cross, etc., have actually entered into the worship of the Western Ukrainian Orthodox parish churches, and as to whether anyone in this forum has been to Ukraine and personally has knowledge of such practices. Such questions/discussions are ordinarily banned elsewhere.  Will that now be the case here too?

If I'm not mistaken, Tony addressed this point in his last post.  As for this topic being banned here, I cannot see any reason why it should be banned.  

God bless you and James.
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,522


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2003, 04:01:20 AM »

There are scores of online Baron von M++nchausens and at 6.56 am yesterday Hypo-Ortho described this one accurately. Don’t believe anything that poster writes without confirmation from a second source.
Logged

Mexican
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Church of Alexandria
Posts: 489


« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2003, 04:35:09 AM »

That doesn't sound so illogical. Given the impact that Roman catholcism has had in Western Ukraine and other places since the time of S Peter Mohyla and then when Greek Catholicism became predominant, it would not be so unbelievable to see these devotions among Orthodox.

Romanian Orthodox have the "calea cruce" which is a version of the via crucis, and it is prayed in funerals, but also in Holy Friday, by them (I know this because of the death of a friend).
Logged
Tags: rosary 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.09 seconds with 53 queries.