Author Topic: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism  (Read 2209 times)

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Offline WPM

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The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« on: November 19, 2018, 01:12:15 PM »
If you're familiar with the Buddhist forum Dharma you'll find people talking about their practice or rituals of Empowerment . . What say the Orthodox? For example Vajrayogini or Vajrapani

Offline Iconodule

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2018, 01:19:22 PM »
These empowerments are esoteric rituals for practitioners of tantric Buddhism, involving the invocation of/ meditation on deities. I suppose they could be roughly compared to Christian sacraments but only to a certain point. It is interesting to learn about them from afar but on a practical level Christians should stay well away from such rites. And to receive such empowerments you have to first undergo the refuge ritual, which would involve renouncing any other religion but Buddhism.
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

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Offline WPM

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2018, 03:30:44 PM »
so, . . . Would you try it or possibly take refuge like the ceremony

Offline Iconodule

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2018, 03:32:14 PM »
so, . . . Would you try it or possibly take refuge like the ceremony

No. Apostasy is one of those things we should avoid.
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline WPM

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2018, 04:24:25 PM »
so, . . . Would you try it or possibly take refuge like the ceremony

No. Apostasy is one of those things we should avoid.


Why or how is that apostasy?

Offline Nathanael

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2018, 04:39:27 PM »
so, . . . Would you try it or possibly take refuge like the ceremony

No. Apostasy is one of those things we should avoid.


Why or how is that apostasy?

Or to ask you: Why isn't that apostasy?
I recommend to the book of "Klaus Kenneth: Born to hate reborn to love". He was a buddhist monk in Thailand for 3 years, a yogi in India for 7 years, and so on and so on. 
Father Pavle - "Give blood & receive the Spirit":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM6LlO434Dg

Offline Iconodule

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2018, 04:45:29 PM »
so, . . . Would you try it or possibly take refuge like the ceremony

No. Apostasy is one of those things we should avoid.


Why or how is that apostasy?

Because the refuge ceremony requires you to take Buddha as the supreme teacher, the Buddha-Dharma as your sole path, and the Sangha as your  religious community, which means renouncing Christ and the Church.
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline Briven

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2018, 04:51:27 PM »
so, . . . Would you try it or possibly take refuge like the ceremony

No. Apostasy is one of those things we should avoid.


Why or how is that apostasy?

It is taking part in a pagan / atheistic religion.
“God,”
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Nastasya, Nastasya, be
patient and do not cry:
Not every happiness
Comes in the clothing of fortune.

St. Avvakum, pray for us!

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Offline WPM

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2018, 05:13:42 PM »
Yea Ill experiment or study Buddhism but it's not Apostasy from the Church.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2018, 05:17:27 PM »
Yea Ill experiment or study Buddhism but it's not Apostasy from the Church.

If you take go for refuge in the Three Jewels or receive a tantric empowerment that is definitely apostasy.
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline WPM

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2018, 05:17:38 PM »
These empowerments are esoteric rituals for practitioners of tantric Buddhism, involving the invocation of/ meditation on deities. I suppose they could be roughly compared to Christian sacraments but only to a certain point. It is interesting to learn about them from afar but on a practical level Christians should stay well away from such rites. And to receive such empowerments you have to first undergo the refuge ritual, which would involve renouncing any other religion but Buddhism.

Yes like Vajrayogini and Vajrapani.

Offline WPM

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2018, 05:18:46 PM »
Yea Ill experiment or study Buddhism but it's not Apostasy from the Church.

If you take go for refuge in the Three Jewels or receive a tantric empowerment that is definitely apostasy.

That is not Apostasy.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2018, 05:34:02 PM »
These empowerments are esoteric rituals for practitioners of tantric Buddhism, involving the invocation of/ meditation on deities. I suppose they could be roughly compared to Christian sacraments but only to a certain point. It is interesting to learn about them from afar but on a practical level Christians should stay well away from such rites. And to receive such empowerments you have to first undergo the refuge ritual, which would involve renouncing any other religion but Buddhism.

Yes like Vajrayogini and Vajrapani.

These are tantric deities. These are not entities you want to "experiment" with. If you are a Christian, stay away from them. In fact a Buddhist teacher will not empower you to do their practices as long as you remain a Christian. 
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline Iconodule

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2018, 05:35:47 PM »
Yea Ill experiment or study Buddhism but it's not Apostasy from the Church.

If you take go for refuge in the Three Jewels or receive a tantric empowerment that is definitely apostasy.

That is not Apostasy.

It is in fact as clear an example of apostasy as can be found anywhere. Don't do it.
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline WPM

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2018, 05:41:00 PM »
These empowerments are esoteric rituals for practitioners of tantric Buddhism, involving the invocation of/ meditation on deities. I suppose they could be roughly compared to Christian sacraments but only to a certain point. It is interesting to learn about them from afar but on a practical level Christians should stay well away from such rites. And to receive such empowerments you have to first undergo the refuge ritual, which would involve renouncing any other religion but Buddhism.

Yes like Vajrayogini and Vajrapani.

These are tantric deities. These are not entities you want to "experiment" with. If you are a Christian, stay away from them. In fact a Buddhist teacher will not empower you to do their practices as long as you remain a Christian.

Then what about Sts. Bar lam and Josaphat who entertained the Buddha in India? ...

Offline Iconodule

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2018, 05:44:15 PM »
Sts Barlaam and Josaphat have been reframed as Christian saints and that's how we primarily relate to them. Their presence on the calendar does not give us license to worship Vajrayogini or other Buddhist deities.

What do you hope to gain from worshiping Vajrayogini that you cannot find in Christ?
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline WPM

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2018, 05:53:22 PM »
Sts Barlaam and Josaphat have been reframed as Christian saints and that's how we primarily relate to them. Their presence on the calendar does not give us license to worship Vajrayogini or other Buddhist deities.

What do you hope to gain from worshiping Vajrayogini that you cannot find in Christ?

Just a parallel study and comparison of Christianity and Buddhism.

Offline Nathanael

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2018, 05:59:05 PM »
Sts Barlaam and Josaphat have been reframed as Christian saints and that's how we primarily relate to them. Their presence on the calendar does not give us license to worship Vajrayogini or other Buddhist deities.

What do you hope to gain from worshiping Vajrayogini that you cannot find in Christ?

Just a parallel study and comparison of Christianity and Buddhism.

I think you are just pulling our legs...
Father Pavle - "Give blood & receive the Spirit":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM6LlO434Dg

Offline Iconodule

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2018, 06:00:12 PM »
Study can be okay, but practice is a whole other thing.

For someone to do an advanced tantric practice like Vajrayogini, you need to be highly committed to Buddhism. You need to first take the three refuges with a lama, then do the four foundational practices (100,000 prostrations, 100,000 Vajrasattva mantras, 100,000 mandala offerings, 100,000 guru yoga practices). This process takes several years. Only after you've done that can you receive empowerment for Vajrayogini.

So this is something you can learn about in an external way, but not something you can just experiment with.
“Steel isn't strong, boy, flesh is stronger! That is strength, boy! That is power! What is steel compared to the hand that wields it?  Contemplate this on the tree of woe.” - Elder Thulsa Doom of the Mountain of Power

Mencius said, “Instruction makes use of many techniques. When I do not deign to instruct someone, that too is a form of instruction.”

Come look at my lame blog

Offline WPM

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2018, 06:26:03 PM »
Study can be okay, but practice is a whole other thing.

For someone to do an advanced tantric practice like Vajrayogini, you need to be highly committed to Buddhism. You need to first take the three refuges with a lama, then do the four foundational practices (100,000 prostrations, 100,000 Vajrasattva mantras, 100,000 mandala offerings, 100,000 guru yoga practices). This process takes several years. Only after you've done that can you receive empowerment for Vajrayogini.

So this is something you can learn about in an external way, but not something you can just experiment with.

Right, Buddhism according to Dharma Wheel is a long and complex process.

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2018, 06:33:47 PM »
Yea Ill experiment or study Buddhism but it's not Apostasy from the Church.

The Church disagrees with you. If you experiment a demon will experiment with you.
“God,”
The words rumbled:
“There is much suffering,
But the church is alive. "

 “How long, Archpriest, are we to suffer thus?” I answered: “Until our very death, Markovna!” And she replied, with a sigh: “So be it, Petrovich, let us plod on.” - Life of Avvakum by Himself

Nastasya, Nastasya, be
patient and do not cry:
Not every happiness
Comes in the clothing of fortune.

St. Avvakum, pray for us!

St. Ambrose, pray for us!

My blog: http://pustozersk.blogspot.com

Offline WPM

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2018, 06:49:09 PM »
LOL someone on a forum telling me the Church disagrees with me.

Offline Briven

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2018, 06:54:19 PM »
LOL someone on a forum telling me the Church disagrees with me.

the Church condemns pagan worship as worship of demons, or alternately worship of nothing.

Are you trolling?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 06:54:30 PM by Briven »
“God,”
The words rumbled:
“There is much suffering,
But the church is alive. "

 “How long, Archpriest, are we to suffer thus?” I answered: “Until our very death, Markovna!” And she replied, with a sigh: “So be it, Petrovich, let us plod on.” - Life of Avvakum by Himself

Nastasya, Nastasya, be
patient and do not cry:
Not every happiness
Comes in the clothing of fortune.

St. Avvakum, pray for us!

St. Ambrose, pray for us!

My blog: http://pustozersk.blogspot.com

Offline biro

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2018, 07:06:05 PM »
I think you are free to read about Buddhism, but if you go to a temple, you cross the line.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist/works Warning: stories have mature content.

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2018, 07:08:51 PM »
LOL someone on a forum telling me the Church disagrees with me.

Ask your priest.
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Offline WPM

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2018, 07:17:14 PM »
Can you be corrected by the Apostles or is that a spurious claim people make?

Offline WPM

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2018, 07:23:04 PM »
LOL someone on a forum telling me the Church disagrees with me.

Are you trolling?

No.

Offline biro

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2018, 07:57:28 PM »
Can you be corrected by the Apostles or is that a spurious claim people make?

You can be corrected by the Church, which comes from the Apostles.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist/works Warning: stories have mature content.

"Some people only feel good when they are praising the Lord." - Coptic bishop

Mt. 21:31 Jesus said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you."

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Offline theistgal

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2018, 12:27:13 AM »
LOL someone on a forum telling me the Church disagrees with me.

You posted it on a forum, asking the Orthodox for their opinions. They're giving you their opinions. If you didn't want them, perhaps you shouldn't have asked for them.
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Offline WPM

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2018, 09:02:21 AM »
LOL someone on a forum telling me the Church disagrees with me.

You posted it on a forum, asking the Orthodox for their opinions. They're giving you their opinions. If you didn't want them, perhaps you shouldn't have asked for them.

Isn't that what a forum is for.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 09:02:58 AM by WPM »

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2018, 11:15:58 AM »
LOL someone on a forum telling me the Church disagrees with me.

You posted it on a forum, asking the Orthodox for their opinions. They're giving you their opinions. If you didn't want them, perhaps you shouldn't have asked for them.

Isn't that what a forum is for.

Yet you then turn around and "LOL" at the people giving you their opinions, which you requested.
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Offline Alveus Lacuna

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2018, 12:26:21 PM »
I think you are free to read about Buddhism, but if you go to a temple, you cross the line.

I would have no objection to, and an intense interest in, visiting a mosque, a Hindu or Buddhist temple, etc. Add a worship building for Sikhs, Zoroastrians, or most other things if they'd have me. For me crossing the line would be participation in rituals or paying homage to the deities, even through gestures.

I would, with such an opportunity, ask if I would be able to enter and only to watch without participating. That's the line to me.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 12:28:45 PM by Alveus Lacuna »

Offline maneki_neko

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2018, 07:51:12 PM »
I think you are free to read about Buddhism, but if you go to a temple, you cross the line.

I would have no objection to, and an intense interest in, visiting a mosque, a Hindu or Buddhist temple, etc. Add a worship building for Sikhs, Zoroastrians, or most other things if they'd have me. For me crossing the line would be participation in rituals or paying homage to the deities, even through gestures.

I would, with such an opportunity, ask if I would be able to enter and only to watch without participating. That's the line to me.


I've visited many a temple without lighting incense, giving an offering, or participating in rituals. I even heard from a Deacon while in Japan that they took a visiting monastic to one of the temple sites on a tour (many are also important tourist/cultural sites). On the other hand he said the monastic wasn't so interested in staying because he said he could see demons in the space.  ;D
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Offline WPM

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #33 on: November 20, 2018, 08:20:00 PM »
Which is why you have to get your JOB

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #34 on: November 22, 2018, 02:34:31 AM »
These empowerments are esoteric rituals for practitioners of tantric Buddhism, involving the invocation of/ meditation on deities. I suppose they could be roughly compared to Christian sacraments but only to a certain point. It is interesting to learn about them from afar but on a practical level Christians should stay well away from such rites. And to receive such empowerments you have to first undergo the refuge ritual, which would involve renouncing any other religion but Buddhism.

+1

Council of Nicea:
Εθη ἀρχαῖα κρατείτω. 
Mores antiqui obtineant.
The ancient ways shall prevail.

The sentiment of Nicea in Greek and Latin, translated into English.

Offline juliogb

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #35 on: November 22, 2018, 06:54:56 AM »
Why do you want to perform rituals of another religion? That's spiritually dangerous.

Offline WPM

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2018, 10:10:49 AM »
Why do you want to perform rituals of another religion? That's spiritually dangerous.


Basically . . . . To see what it is or whether it bears any relevance.

Offline juliogb

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Re: The Scoop on Buddhist or Buddhism
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2018, 11:48:25 AM »
That's unnecessary, do you need to perform it to know if its good or not? Following that line of thought, it is ok to be possessed by voodoo entities, or engage in islamic pilgrimage to Mecca, or drink ayahuasca in a Santo Daime ritual.