Author Topic: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?  (Read 3186 times)

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Offline TruthSeeker

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Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« on: October 30, 2005, 08:57:53 PM »
There is some good music out there from the heterodox.
I especially like the music of John Michael Talbot, a Roman Catholic.

Do you buy and listen to this music or do you stick with know orthodox artists?

Part of me says that since the heterodox have only a piece of the truth we should not listen to music from heterodox artists...??

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Offline Anastasios

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2005, 09:10:52 PM »
Depends on what kind of music.  For instance, I still enjoy the occasional Protestant hymn; some of them are perfectly Orthodox in content.  But others are simply heretical, or in the case of modern Christian rock, besides being horrible musically, are so pietistic and sappy as to be unlistenable.  If you like the genre of Christian rock though and want something Orthodox you could give my friend Peter Jon Gilquist a try: http://www.saintromanosrecords.com.  Even though the genre is not my cup of tea, I like some of his music.

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Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism and may not be accurate expositions of Orthodox teaching. Also, I served as an Orthodox priest from 2008-2013, before resigning.

Offline TruthSeeker

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2005, 09:50:47 PM »
Depends on what kind of music.ÂÂÂ  For instance, I still enjoy the occasional Protestant hymn; some of them are perfectly Orthodox in content.ÂÂÂ  But others are simply heretical, or in the case of modern Christian rock, besides being horrible musically, are so pietistic and sappy as to be unlistenable.ÂÂÂ  If you like the genre of Christian rock though and want something Orthodox you could give my friend Peter Jon Gilquist a try: http://www.saintromanosrecords.com.ÂÂÂ  Even though the genre is not my cup of tea, I like some of his music.

Anastasios



I do not like heavy "Christian rock"....but I do like soft rock, contemporary and easy listening kind of stuff.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2005, 09:54:46 PM by TruthSeeker »
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Offline zebu

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2005, 10:38:38 PM »
I still like some Protestant hymns, like "A Mighty Fortress is our God" and "Joyful, Joyful We Adore Thee".ÂÂ  In fact, since I am converting to Orthodoxy now and will never again sing them in chuch, I have some of my favorite Protestant/Catholic hymns downloaded on my computer, and am thinking of buying a CD of them... but then I think that is a bit weird.ÂÂ  I also listen to some Christian rock still, but the kind that is more "discreet", like the kind that though it really is Christian, is also played on secular radio stations, like Switchfoot, the Afters, and Lifehouse.ÂÂ  
« Last Edit: October 30, 2005, 10:53:08 PM by zebu »
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2005, 12:39:56 AM »
At this point, I don't see any option but to listen to non-Orthodox music. For that matter, I find myself listening to non-Christian music, if the lyrics aren't offensive. Mastodon's new album Leviathan, for example, is an absolute masterpiece. I'm probably going to pick up a trans-siberian orchestra CD this Christmas as well. I don't think there's anything wrong with non-Orthodox music any more than non-Orthodox books, non-Orthodox paintings, etc. I mean, if something is obviously offensive then avoid it; if not, I say don't sweat it.

Offline EkhristosAnesti

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Orthodox Christian Rap?
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2005, 12:52:12 AM »
This post could probably ruin my image here, but ah well, I hope many are open minded enough to not let it distort their perception of me. This post is mainly in consideration of the website provided by Anastasios relating to Orthodox Christian artists creating Orthodox-ily themed music in contemporary genres such as rock.

In my earlier youth, before I ever took my Orthodox Christianity seriously, I used to be quite involved with local Australian hip-hop. I’d visit quite a few concerts, purchased quite a few albums, and as I had a friend who was a professional DJ, I also started creating my own songs. I quit all of this about 2-3 years ago, however my ears still yearn for that rhythm and beat, even though I cannot bring myself to listen to any of the songs I used to by virtue of their inappropriate and distasteful content.

It was also past-time hobby of mine to just play an instrumental, and start writing lyrics to it. Recently, I’ve had the urge to just write something in my spare time, and without planning the theme or content of what I was to write, the lyrics naturally flowed out with Christian content. I thence decided to record them onto an instrumental — though since I have lost contact with all my friends who had possessed the equipment necessary for a professional recording, my recordings are poorly done via my home PC.

I thought I’d share two of my sample songs on this website; if there canbeÂÂ  “Orthodox rock”, then why not “Orthodox rap”? In the end, every genre appeals to a specific group of people, and is capable of positive influence regardless of the medium.

PS. I do not plan on becoming, nor do I even think myself qualified of becoming, a professional artist. I have a good university education that I plan to pursue to the end i.e. No, I ain’t gonna give up my day-job.

My Songs:

Note: These are all sample tracks, and very roughly recorded as I said. There is nothing uniquely Orthodox about them for they are in fact quite general at this stage — simply expressing fundamental truths that are commonly shared with a range of other denominations. I have pasted the lyrics below each song file, in case non-Australians have a hard time comprehending my Oz-accent.

Sample Song #1:

Title: “The Word”
Vocals/Lryics: Me.
Instrumental: Created by a friend.
Link to download: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=J5W5VBOE (Look out for the notification request to wait 45 — a link to download the file will then appear)

Lyrics:

Verse 1:

In the beginning was The Word, and The Word was with God
Dont trip at what ima say, coz The Word He was God
God spoke and all was created
He loved His own, but to His own He was hated

They berated his theology,
and when they couldn’t take it, they’d start the mockery
they picked up the stones, coz He said "I am He"
“If you wanna see the Father, all u gotta see is me”

The image, the radiance, the Father is revealed
The Word has incarnated, the truth no more concealed
it will set you free, believe me, accept it,
Have ya faith sealed by the one who’s resurrected

Accepted abuse, who was accused, n rejected,
Choose the narrow road, or be ejected
From kingdom of The Son, who sits at the right hand till He next comes

On the clouds of glory, in His Father's glory,
to finish the last chapter of the story
The story that u mocked and kept distorting
You thought you had the last laugh, but you'll be sorry

For your ascriptions, of mere sage or prophet, your false convictions
Your clear rejection of the clear testimony of the Biblical prophets
And their clear depiction of The eternal Son

Begotten of the Father before all times
Take heed of Gospel truth in my awesome rhymes
Divorce the crimes of the flesh, when he resurrected
Then we entered eternal Sabbath rest
caressed by His grace, till i breath my last breath

Chorus:

Til the end of The World
My allegiance is to His Holy Word
its written on my soul
In the form of a servant
He dwelt amongst his servants
I cant comprehend the humility
The love it takes...incredible

Verse 2: (The half performed on the sample)'

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ
Find it in you, to give up all ya pride
For He who being in the form of God
Never thought it robbery to claim equality

Laid the qualities of the divine aside
Became a servant for u and i
His heel struck the serpet as prophesied
Torn veil curtain, man reconciled

Through the divine Messiah,
The mighty Son of God of Chapter 9 Isaiah
Revelations tells of his eyes of fire
The spirit and the bride desire..
That u find God's love the fire


Sample Song #2:

Title: “Suffering”
Vocals/Lyrics: Me
Instrumental: Mockingbird
Link: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BHXJXL2H
Lyrics:

Corpses around me, but they still breathin’
Souls tied to the chains of death, but hearts still beatin’
Seekin’ and searchin’; weak n they lurchin-
For-The meanin’ of hurt, a bleedin’ with purpose


It’s a circus of evil clowns, who joke around;
to make u lose the crown; Of eternity,
The Lord says “turn to me;
Every drop of blood lost on the earth will be —

Revenged, recompensed, if you learn from me;
Resent and repent and turn the leaf;
Coz without the heat their aint no purification
Understand that it’s for ur own salvation.”

It’s all about perception you see,
What you see isn’t really what you see,
Sounds silly but believe;
Coz I’ve been where u be,
n I’ve seen what u see,
But now I am free from the chains of deceit;

But the pain hasn’t fleed, its just illuminified
In the framework of The Lord crucified;
The Cross of the Boss wasn’t loss though it cost lots *
Coz it exalts every cross that we cross

In the course of our lives,
He doesn’t force the light,
So divorce the force that has caused ur blindness
Widen ur mind’s iris,
And learn that your suffering is a sign of the Lords kindness

Partake in the Lords suffering and rejoice
His glory is revealed so be glad with joy
« Last Edit: October 31, 2005, 12:56:27 AM by EkhristosAnesti »
No longer an active member of this forum. Sincerest apologies to anyone who has taken offence to anything posted in youthful ignorance or negligence prior to my leaving this forum - October, 2012.

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Offline amnesiac99

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2005, 12:54:03 AM »
Most of the music I listen to is non-Christian, let alone non-Orthodox. I cannot stomach modern Christian pop (Sonicflood, Michael W. Smith and so forth). It literally gives me a headache. Many on this board will disagree with me, but I see no trouble in listening to most muisic. My tastes are ecclectic, so I never listen to the same thing long. I can take out a Tool cd and put in Cat Stevens, or put in Miles Davis after listening to Rachmaninov. The insistence upon listening only to Christian music is something I've never understood, as we aren't advised only to read Christian books or enjoy Christian art or see Christian movies.
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Offline Silouan

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2005, 02:18:14 AM »
To me Christian music is something like Bach or Mozart.  I very much enjoy classical settings of Stabat Mater, Ave Maria etc.  My favorite though of all these is Handel's Messiah.  A close second is Ich Habe Genug by Bach.  Now that Christmas season is around the coner, I do like all the traditional religious Christmas songs, 

I don't listen much to secular music these days but of recent stuff I like the songs Steh auf wenn du am Boden bist, Weiss der Gaier and a fun drinking song is Dragostea din tei.  As for American stuff... Goldfinger is my favorite of late. 

Offline Princeps

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2005, 03:43:27 AM »
Quote
Part of me says that since the heterodox have only a piece of the truth we should not listen to music from heterodox artists...??

I post on several Christian Rock boards... you see a lot of people wondering "is it okay to listen to secular music?" but I have to admit this is the first time I saw that question.

Quote
But others are simply heretical, or in the case of modern Christian rock, besides being horrible musically, are so pietistic and sappy as to be unlistenable.

Quoted for truth.  Project 86, the Benjamin Gate, and (some precious little) Skillet is more or less the only decent Christian Rock these days.  Project 86 is, no kidding, the Christian world's version of Pink Floyd intellectually.  Other than that I really can't stand it-DC Talk, Michael W. Smith, Audio Adrenaline, they all drive me up a wall.

Quote
In my earlier youth, before I ever took my Orthodox Christianity seriously, I used to be quite involved with local Australian hip-hop.

I know a guy down in Newcastle that does that... ever hear of a guy named Ben Archer?

But at any rate... he's not Orthodox but there's this techno-ish composer, Paul Schwartz, and his music is simply amazing.  He does remixes of church hymns, stuff like that... http://www.paulschwartz.com/

Offline ionus

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2005, 04:54:01 PM »
Hi all,

I have recently come to appreciate the beauty of baroque music. I do have a preference for reggae music which I'm sure a lot people on here probably wouldn't encourage, but some songs are so unbelievably good that it's hard not to be inspired by them.  One particular song I have, that I like very much is a song by an artist called "Dezarie", she has a song called "strengthen your mind", which is great.  There are many other reggae songs too.  I know that a lot of them are Rastafarian, and that is completely heretical, but a lot of songs actually just talk about Christian values, and warn of the dangers of temptation.  I dunno, what do people think about this?  Anyone else listens to reggae?

Aside from this guilty pleasure in reggae music, I also love baroque music.  Bach, and Vivaldi are some of my favorites.  My special favorites are compositions for the classical guitar, by Segovia, Villa Lobos, and Granados plus more. 

Sometimes certain pop love songs have a very profound Christian message in them, Sade's "lover's rock", i think is one such song.  Some of U2's songs are amazing, like "Drowning Man".

BTW- Ekhristos Anesti, your raps sound awesome, that ozzy accent sounds super cool 8)

Offline Sabbas

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2005, 03:38:47 AM »
I like classical! Particularly Beethoven's Ninth Symphony and Wagner. I often am enchanted when I consider that Wagner was one of the greatest composers and librettist of all time yet he never mastered an instrument and then I am moved to remember that God has orchestrated all creation, knows all of it's movements, and pulls the chords of the very fabric of reality with a precision greater than Paganini on the Violin! Simply put classical music of the heterodox is okay if it is understood and appreciated properly and is wholesome. Though I must confess I do enjoy hearing contemporary music at times. I do sometimes still listen to Bob Marley and Electronica music :-[ My only excuse is that it is relaxing after spending the whole day in one big fast mess to hear Marley's relaxed, happy voice through my speakers.
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Offline Nacho

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2005, 05:12:27 AM »
Well, I don't know about 'christian' music, it sounds too fruity to me. The few christian bands with a lick of talent would be Delirous whom sound pretty close to U2. Another good one is Spoken, they sound kinda like Rage Against the Machine. The rest of it is all crap as far as I'm concerned. I can't beleive people would listen to stuff like Carmen or DC Talk, that's got to be just about the gayest stuff I have ever heard.

Now, if you want to listen to a real band, I would go with Depeche Mode who currently have the #1 album on the Worldwide sales chart right now. Probably the most underated band in history, but these guys know how to make music. Of course they don't get as much airplay here in America because people are brainwashed with crap on MTV and other bad music. Here's a few pics I have of them. 
« Last Edit: November 01, 2005, 05:18:15 AM by Nacho »
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Offline suzannes

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2005, 04:19:15 PM »
Hey Asteriktos,
Interesting comment about Mastodon.  I know two of the guys in the band.  They lived in my town, before moving to Atlanta and getting famous.  When they played at Ozzfest here (no, I didn't go, so no one yell at me), Brann Dailor told the local paper that he was reading "Crime and Punishment," and he had gotten the name "Leviathan" from Moby Dick.   I emailed their site because I wanted to talk to Brann about Crime and Punishment, but it wasn't working correctly at the time.  Anyway, they're nice guys. 

More than any secular issue, I've struggled with the music thing.  I love chant and Classical music, *BUT* I still love bands like Spririt Caravan, Dixie Witch, High on Fire.  Obviously, a lot of secular (rock) is horrible, but not all of it it.  I remember years back, being in a store in a mall, and Alanis Morrisettte was playing, singing about (sorry) a sex act.  There were little kids in the store!  I know music that sounds "harder" but may not be anywhere near as offensive.  I won't listen to anything obviously anti-Christian though.   I can however recommend The Sabians.  That's Justin Marler's band, and some of the lyrics are beautiful, thoughtful and orthodox.  And the music is cool.

Offline monkvasyl

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2005, 04:34:24 PM »
I enjoy, from time to time, listening to the old tradtional music and hymns from the Catholic Church, brings back memories.  I also enjoy the music from Westin Priory and the St. Louis Jesuits, my favorite was the hymns from Fr. Lucen Deiss, unfortunately I could never find any cds of his music.  Its strange, tho, I can't bring myself to sing Western Christmas Carols, the closest I can bring myself are Polish carols, being 1/2 Polish and 1/2 Ukrainian. 
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Offline norespite

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2005, 06:00:37 PM »
Before I became Orthodox I was very involved in the underground, indie and emo (now somewhat "mainstream": it always takes a while to get out) Christian music scene. Not all in the Christian music scene is poor song writing and great production (read CCM).  I sold all of my cheesy high school pop punk but kept around some of the other worthy keepers. Here is a short list: My all time favorite Christian band is Poor Old Lu. I also still listen to Starflyer 59, Brandston, The Innocence Mission, and Over the Rhine. A little more on the edge of Christian music (in exposure and sometimes in content) would be Pedro the Lion, Damien Jurado, Sufjan Stevens, and David Eugene Edwards (16 Horsepower, Wovenhand).

Lately I've been listening to alot of folk music like Storyhill and Mark Kozalek (Red House Painters).

For me, like suzannes, music was a big deal for me when I was becoming Orthodox. I had to look at how certain music could effect my soul - maybe not even the lyrics but the music itself. I've had people say blanket statements condemning certain music but I've come to the conclusion that it is sometimes different for different people. So anyway...



...when the attacks of the demons are particularly strong, the intellect does not have a moment's respite.  This is because it is weakened by the passions to which is has succumbed in the past.  But if it goes on searching, it will find; and if it knocks, the door will be opened.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2005, 07:10:29 PM »
Nacho

Quote
The rest of it is all crap as far as I'm concerned.

Thanks! Any other constructive criticism you'd like to offer me and tens of thousands of other Christian musicians who you've never heard, or was your comment meant to be your definitive statement on the matter? ;D

suzannes

Quote
Interesting comment about Mastodon.  I know two of the guys in the band.  They lived in my town, before moving to Atlanta and getting famous.  When they played at Ozzfest here (no, I didn't go, so no one yell at me), Brann Dailor told the local paper that he was reading "Crime and Punishment," and he had gotten the name "Leviathan" from Moby Dick.   I emailed their site because I wanted to talk to Brann about Crime and Punishment, but it wasn't working correctly at the time.  Anyway, they're nice guys. 

Cool! :) That'd be cool if you could chat, I think they're really great at what they do. I actually bought their album at a Wal-Mart because I thought it was a Christian album. I mean, how many people use words like "Leviathan" and "Mastodon"? There was also a Christian metal band called Leviathen (different spelling) years ago. I was wrong about them being Christian, but they sure kick butt. The only thing though is that they scare my wife and I have to listen to them with headphones, lol.

Offline Beavis

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2005, 07:46:56 PM »
Which jurisdiction does David Bowie fall under? ???
"Every entity is what it loves"----Vladimir Solovyov

Offline Elisha

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2005, 08:06:50 PM »
Nacho

Thanks! Any other constructive criticism you'd like to offer me and tens of thousands of other Christian musicians who you've never heard, or was your comment meant to be your definitive statement on the matter? ;D

suzannes

It's OK - sometimes Nacho is right in his definitive statements. ;D

Offline scooter

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2005, 12:35:50 AM »
I am not Orthodox (yet), but I don't see a problem with it.  A close friend of mine who is has his favorites among the Christian groups he listens to.  It is like anything else- there is the good, the bad and the ugly.  The Father of the parish I attend has always told me in regards to my journey (about the heterodox) that it is essentially the same message in a big picture sense as the Orthodox though the Orthodox has correctly held to the history and the teachings of the Church.  I would think it very hard to find more than nuggets of truth in a song, much less trying to compact all of Orthodoxy into one 3-5 minute song or into one 15 track CD.  And for that reason, if you find a Christian artist you enjoy and don't have a problem with lyrically, why not buy it?  Fredricka Mathews Greene (sic), author of East and Now used to and still may attend Cornerstone on a regular basis.

I am a big fan of Saviour Machine and former Living Sacrifice just to rattle off two that come to mind.  I have no problem with secular music.  It is a personal choice and I purchase these CDs on a case by case basis.  If a secular CD, or even a "Christian" one will stand in the way of my pursuit of God, I won't buy it.

Offline Princeps

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2005, 02:29:41 AM »
Oh yeah, I forgot Saviour Machine... they're fantastic.

Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2005, 02:35:48 AM »
Come on guys, next thing you know, people are going to realise that not all Christian music sucks and that you can find some that is really good if you just take the time to look for it. I think people are much happier just repeating the mindless mantra, based on scant if any evidence, that all Chrisitan music sucks. After all, if the radio isn't playing it it can't be good, right? Cause everyone knows that record companies and radio stations and the like are unbiased, even-handed businesses whose sole purpose is to find the best music and bring it to the public's attentionÂÂ  :P ;D

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« Last Edit: November 03, 2005, 02:36:41 AM by Asteriktos »

Offline Nacho

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Re: Music from the heterodox, do you listen?
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2005, 03:47:23 AM »
Quote
Thanks! Any other constructive criticism you'd like to offer me and tens of thousands of other Christian musicians who you've never heard, or was your comment meant to be your definitive statement on the matter? Grin

OK.....maybe I was a little harsh.... ;)

Quote
It's OK - sometimes Nacho is right in his definitive statements. Grin

Thanks Elisha!  :D

Quote
I am a big fan of Saviour Machine and former Living Sacrifice just to rattle off two that come to mind.  I have no problem with secular music.  It is a personal choice and I purchase these CDs on a case by case basis.  If a secular CD, or even a "Christian" one will stand in the way of my pursuit of God, I won't buy it.

Yea, Living Sacrifice is another really good hard - core christian band. You should seriously check out Spoken's self titled album, it's spooky how much they sould just like Rage Against The Machine. I still think that Delirous is the most influential christian band to have come on the scene. They could easily make it in the secular world if they wanted to, & believe it or not many of their songs have made the UK top 20.  Their album Mezamorphis is probably their best, followed by King of Fools. Good christian bands are few & far between, but there are some real gems out there. Apparently in the christian 'rock' world they suffer from the same thing as the general population at large when it comes to good taste in music. They like crap like Carmen or DC Talk, but ignore some of better artist out there. Maybe they should have a get - togethor with the Ashlee Simpson, Greenday, or Britney Spears fans..... ::)

"If I find in myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world."--Mere Christianity