Author Topic: Obedience  (Read 573 times)

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Offline Svetlana

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Obedience
« on: September 17, 2018, 02:59:26 PM »
What is obedience?  And what should it be ?

Simplest feel for this, is that obedience should be to Him.
The humblest startsy and devoted hierarchs of the past with good personal qualities knew this, and always guided us in this question by pointing to Him.

But what to do when today's hierarchs insist on obedience to THEM?

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2018, 03:04:45 PM »
I think this might be a false dichotomy. One obeys their leaders to the extent that they speak in the name of God.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2018, 03:05:28 PM »
Of course in the church we owe obedience to bishops, deriving from, and not superseding, our obedience to God.

Are there any specific bishops or specific injunctions that you find onerous?
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Re: Obedience
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2018, 03:18:28 PM »
Obey the Lord's commandments.  You'll be ok.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Offline Svetlana

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2018, 05:22:53 PM »
Thank you, all of you, for your responses.

The best pastors and hierarchs I've known, simply guide us and point us to Him.

It's important to be among right people, therefore. 

Beyond that, rely on the written Word, the living Liturgy, and living the teachings.

Offline andrewlya

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2018, 05:29:41 PM »
Obey the Lord's commandments.  You'll be ok.

Amen to that, let's start by going back to the original Shabbat day worship not Sun-Day pagan worship...

"When Emperor Constantine I—a pagan sun-worshipper—came to power in A.D. 313, he legalized Christianity and made the first Sunday-keeping law. His infamous Sunday enforcement law of March 7, A.D. 321, reads as follows: “On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed.” (Codex Justinianus 3.12.3, trans. Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, 5th ed. (New York, 1902), 3:380, note 1.)

The Sunday law was officially confirmed by the Roman Papacy. The Council of Laodicea in A.D. 364 decreed, “Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honour, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ” (Strand, op. cit., citing Charles J. Hefele, A History of the Councils of the Church, 2 [Edinburgh, 1876] 316).

Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, 92nd ed., p. 89, freely admits, “You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [the Catholic Church] never sanctify.”

Again, “The Catholic Church, … by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday” (The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893).

“Protestants do not realize that by observing Sunday, they accept the authority of the spokesperson of the Church, the Pope” (Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950).

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [Saturday Sabbath to Sunday] was her act... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things” (H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons).

“Sunday is our mark of authority… the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact” (Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1, 1923).

What a shocking admission!"

Men cannot change Yahweh's laws- Deuteronomy 4:2: "You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of Yahweh your God which I command you.' Do you also believe that the Church is above the Bible- the Word of Yahweh our Father like the Catholics claim?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 05:37:57 PM by andrewlya »
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Re: Obedience
« Reply #6 on: October 05, 2018, 05:42:50 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline andrewlya

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2018, 05:50:11 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius but I do prefer his theology to that of Catholic trinity. I am a simple believer who tries to follow the Bible and believe in one God the Father and One Messiah. I also pray we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 05:52:23 PM by andrewlya »
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Offline biro

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2018, 05:50:55 PM »
Obey the Lord's commandments.  You'll be ok.

Amen to that, let's start by going back to the original Shabbat day worship not Sun-Day pagan worship...

"When Emperor Constantine I—a pagan sun-worshipper—came to power in A.D. 313, he legalized Christianity and made the first Sunday-keeping law. His infamous Sunday enforcement law of March 7, A.D. 321, reads as follows: “On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed.” (Codex Justinianus 3.12.3, trans. Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, 5th ed. (New York, 1902), 3:380, note 1.)

The Sunday law was officially confirmed by the Roman Papacy. The Council of Laodicea in A.D. 364 decreed, “Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honour, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ” (Strand, op. cit., citing Charles J. Hefele, A History of the Councils of the Church, 2 [Edinburgh, 1876] 316).

Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, 92nd ed., p. 89, freely admits, “You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [the Catholic Church] never sanctify.”

Again, “The Catholic Church, … by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday” (The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893).

“Protestants do not realize that by observing Sunday, they accept the authority of the spokesperson of the Church, the Pope” (Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950).

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [Saturday Sabbath to Sunday] was her act... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things” (H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons).

“Sunday is our mark of authority… the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact” (Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1, 1923).

What a shocking admission!"

Men cannot change Yahweh's laws- Deuteronomy 4:2: "You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of Yahweh your God which I command you.' Do you also believe that the Church is above the Bible- the Word of Yahweh our Father like the Catholics claim?

We aren't Jews. We're Christians. That's why we follow the Christian sabbath, which is Sunday, because that's when the Lord rose from the dead. The Jewish Sabbath, which was Saturday, is kept holy by the observance of Vespers, but we worship Christ on Sunday, because He rose from the dead.

Does it still not bother you that almost no people in the world follow your 'Saturday shabbat' crap?

We are not sun-worshiping pagans.

This board is Orthodox, not Roman Catholic. They couldn't care less what the Catholics claim here.

Didn't they tell you to stop your Arian nonsense years ago?
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Offline biro

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2018, 05:52:16 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius I follow the Bible, but yes I believe in one God the Father and wish we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Catholics are not pagans, we do not follow the Jewish shabbat on Saturday, and no one was asking you to steer this ship off course again.

This board is Orthodox. What do you not understand?

Can't you go belch your garbage somewhere else?
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline andrewlya

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2018, 05:55:19 PM »
Obey the Lord's commandments.  You'll be ok.

Amen to that, let's start by going back to the original Shabbat day worship not Sun-Day pagan worship...

"When Emperor Constantine I—a pagan sun-worshipper—came to power in A.D. 313, he legalized Christianity and made the first Sunday-keeping law. His infamous Sunday enforcement law of March 7, A.D. 321, reads as follows: “On the venerable Day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed.” (Codex Justinianus 3.12.3, trans. Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, 5th ed. (New York, 1902), 3:380, note 1.)

The Sunday law was officially confirmed by the Roman Papacy. The Council of Laodicea in A.D. 364 decreed, “Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honour, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ” (Strand, op. cit., citing Charles J. Hefele, A History of the Councils of the Church, 2 [Edinburgh, 1876] 316).

Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, 92nd ed., p. 89, freely admits, “You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [the Catholic Church] never sanctify.”

Again, “The Catholic Church, … by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday” (The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893).

“Protestants do not realize that by observing Sunday, they accept the authority of the spokesperson of the Church, the Pope” (Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950).

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [Saturday Sabbath to Sunday] was her act... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things” (H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons).

“Sunday is our mark of authority… the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact” (Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1, 1923).

What a shocking admission!"

Men cannot change Yahweh's laws- Deuteronomy 4:2: "You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of Yahweh your God which I command you.' Do you also believe that the Church is above the Bible- the Word of Yahweh our Father like the Catholics claim?

We aren't Jews. We're Christians. That's why we follow the Christian sabbath, which is Sunday, because that's when the Lord rose from the dead. The Jewish Sabbath, which was Saturday, is kept holy by the observance of Vespers, but we worship Christ on Sunday, because He rose from the dead.

Does it still not bother you that almost no people in the world follow your 'Saturday shabbat' crap?

We are not sun-worshiping pagans.

This board is Orthodox, not Roman Catholic. They couldn't care less what the Catholics claim here.

Didn't they tell you to stop your Arian nonsense years ago?

Christian Sabbath- what is one of those? When did Bible change the day of worship from Shabbat to Sun-day?

 Biblical Christians did not abandon Saturday worship for Sunday. Saturday was the 7th day and Sunday was the 1st day of the week until Emperor Constantine and the Catholic papacy changed it and you guys being Orthodox follow Catholic doctrines and rejecting Catholics at the same time !

It is nothing to do with Arianism, it is to do with the Bible,Biro. When did you read it last?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 05:56:38 PM by andrewlya »
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Re: Obedience
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2018, 05:56:56 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius but I do prefer his theology to that of Catholic trinity. I am a simple believer who tries to follow the Bible and believe in one God the Father and One Messiah. I also pray we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Wrong. You pray to a demon who influences you with these evil ideas and the archheresiarch Arius, lord have mercy on him, as he has sinned greatly.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 05:57:12 PM by Briven »
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But the church is alive. "

 “How long, Archpriest, are we to suffer thus?” I answered: “Until our very death, Markovna!” And she replied, with a sigh: “So be it, Petrovich, let us plod on.” - Life of Avvakum by Himself

Nastasya, Nastasya, be
patient and do not cry:
Not every happiness
Comes in the clothing of fortune.

St. Avvakum, pray for us!

St. Ambrose, pray for us!

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Offline andrewlya

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2018, 05:58:32 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius I follow the Bible, but yes I believe in one God the Father and wish we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Catholics are not pagans, we do not follow the Jewish shabbat on Saturday, and no one was asking you to steer this ship off course again.

This board is Orthodox. What do you not understand?

Can't you go belch your garbage somewhere else?
Catholics are not pagans? haha yeah if serving graven images, statutes is not pagan then you really have not got a clue :D
I believe in One God- the Heavenly Father Yahweh-John 17:3,1 Corinthians 8:6
I believe in the Son of the Living God- Yahshua our Messiah-Matthew 16:16

Offline andrewlya

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2018, 05:59:19 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius I follow the Bible, but yes I believe in one God the Father and wish we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Catholics are not pagans, we do not follow the Jewish shabbat on Saturday, and no one was asking you to steer this ship off course again.

This board is Orthodox. What do you not understand?

Can't you go belch your garbage somewhere else?

No, because you like to read my posts and you are learning from me as well, you just have not realised it yet.
I believe in One God- the Heavenly Father Yahweh-John 17:3,1 Corinthians 8:6
I believe in the Son of the Living God- Yahshua our Messiah-Matthew 16:16

Offline biro

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2018, 06:01:00 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius I follow the Bible, but yes I believe in one God the Father and wish we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Catholics are not pagans, we do not follow the Jewish shabbat on Saturday, and no one was asking you to steer this ship off course again.

This board is Orthodox. What do you not understand?

Can't you go belch your garbage somewhere else?
Catholics are not pagans? haha yeah if serving graven images, statutes is not pagan then you really have not got a clue :D

WE ARE NOT ROMAN CATHOLICS. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU LAST TIME?
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


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Offline andrewlya

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2018, 06:01:50 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius but I do prefer his theology to that of Catholic trinity. I am a simple believer who tries to follow the Bible and believe in one God the Father and One Messiah. I also pray we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Wrong. You pray to a demon who influences you with these evil ideas and the archheresiarch Arius, lord have mercy on him, as he has sinned greatly.

This is NOTHING to do with Arius- it is to do with the Bible. Dear me, don't you know your history and the Bible how Sun-day became a new day of worship because it was a dedication to SUN god...
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Re: Obedience
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2018, 06:02:04 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius I follow the Bible, but yes I believe in one God the Father and wish we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Catholics are not pagans, we do not follow the Jewish shabbat on Saturday, and no one was asking you to steer this ship off course again.

This board is Orthodox. What do you not understand?

Can't you go belch your garbage somewhere else?
Catholics are not pagans? haha yeah if serving graven images, statutes is not pagan then you really have not got a clue :D

If being a judaizing, Arian heretic isnt demonically influenced you really have not got a clue :D

Also:



Jesus Christ our God forgive our brother andrewlya. Lord, have mercy.
“God,”
The words rumbled:
“There is much suffering,
But the church is alive. "

 “How long, Archpriest, are we to suffer thus?” I answered: “Until our very death, Markovna!” And she replied, with a sigh: “So be it, Petrovich, let us plod on.” - Life of Avvakum by Himself

Nastasya, Nastasya, be
patient and do not cry:
Not every happiness
Comes in the clothing of fortune.

St. Avvakum, pray for us!

St. Ambrose, pray for us!

I change my picture daily to reflect feast days. Ask me!

Offline andrewlya

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2018, 06:03:42 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius I follow the Bible, but yes I believe in one God the Father and wish we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Catholics are not pagans, we do not follow the Jewish shabbat on Saturday, and no one was asking you to steer this ship off course again.

This board is Orthodox. What do you not understand?

Can't you go belch your garbage somewhere else?
Catholics are not pagans? haha yeah if serving graven images, statutes is not pagan then you really have not got a clue :D

WE ARE NOT ROMAN CATHOLICS. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU LAST TIME?

That is not the point, I say it is ironic you are not Roman Catholics but follow their instructions:

''The Sunday law was officially confirmed by the Roman Papacy. The Council of Laodicea in A.D. 364 decreed, “Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honour, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ” (Strand, op. cit., citing Charles J. Hefele, A History of the Councils of the Church, 2 [Edinburgh, 1876] 316).

Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, 92nd ed., p. 89, freely admits, “You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [the Catholic Church] never sanctify.”

Again, “The Catholic Church, … by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday” (The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893).

“Protestants do not realize that by observing Sunday, they accept the authority of the spokesperson of the Church, the Pope” (Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950).

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [Saturday Sabbath to Sunday] was her act... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things” (H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons).

“Sunday is our mark of authority… the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact” (Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1, 1923).''
I believe in One God- the Heavenly Father Yahweh-John 17:3,1 Corinthians 8:6
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Re: Obedience
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2018, 06:04:59 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius I follow the Bible, but yes I believe in one God the Father and wish we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Catholics are not pagans, we do not follow the Jewish shabbat on Saturday, and no one was asking you to steer this ship off course again.

This board is Orthodox. What do you not understand?

Can't you go belch your garbage somewhere else?
Catholics are not pagans? haha yeah if serving graven images, statutes is not pagan then you really have not got a clue :D

WE ARE NOT ROMAN CATHOLICS. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU LAST TIME?

That is not the point, I say it is ironic you are not Roman Catholics but follow their instructions:

''The Sunday law was officially confirmed by the Roman Papacy. The Council of Laodicea in A.D. 364 decreed, “Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honour, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ” (Strand, op. cit., citing Charles J. Hefele, A History of the Councils of the Church, 2 [Edinburgh, 1876] 316).

Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, 92nd ed., p. 89, freely admits, “You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [the Catholic Church] never sanctify.”

Again, “The Catholic Church, … by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday” (The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893).

“Protestants do not realize that by observing Sunday, they accept the authority of the spokesperson of the Church, the Pope” (Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950).

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [Saturday Sabbath to Sunday] was her act... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things” (H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons).

“Sunday is our mark of authority… the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact” (Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1, 1923).''

I must agree, the Orthodox Church created with Divine inspiration the Bible, which it gave to you. I completely agree.
“God,”
The words rumbled:
“There is much suffering,
But the church is alive. "

 “How long, Archpriest, are we to suffer thus?” I answered: “Until our very death, Markovna!” And she replied, with a sigh: “So be it, Petrovich, let us plod on.” - Life of Avvakum by Himself

Nastasya, Nastasya, be
patient and do not cry:
Not every happiness
Comes in the clothing of fortune.

St. Avvakum, pray for us!

St. Ambrose, pray for us!

I change my picture daily to reflect feast days. Ask me!

Offline andrewlya

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2018, 06:05:10 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius I follow the Bible, but yes I believe in one God the Father and wish we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Catholics are not pagans, we do not follow the Jewish shabbat on Saturday, and no one was asking you to steer this ship off course again.

This board is Orthodox. What do you not understand?

Can't you go belch your garbage somewhere else?
Catholics are not pagans? haha yeah if serving graven images, statutes is not pagan then you really have not got a clue :D

If being a judaizing, Arian heretic isnt demonically influenced you really have not got a clue :D

Also:



Jesus Christ our God forgive our brother andrewlya. Lord, have mercy.

You think showing me an idol is going to change things? You don't know me do you.
I believe in One God- the Heavenly Father Yahweh-John 17:3,1 Corinthians 8:6
I believe in the Son of the Living God- Yahshua our Messiah-Matthew 16:16

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2018, 06:06:26 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius I follow the Bible, but yes I believe in one God the Father and wish we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Catholics are not pagans, we do not follow the Jewish shabbat on Saturday, and no one was asking you to steer this ship off course again.

This board is Orthodox. What do you not understand?

Can't you go belch your garbage somewhere else?
Catholics are not pagans? haha yeah if serving graven images, statutes is not pagan then you really have not got a clue :D

If being a judaizing, Arian heretic isnt demonically influenced you really have not got a clue :D

Also:



Jesus Christ our God forgive our brother andrewlya. Lord, have mercy.

You think showing me an idol is going to change things? You don't know me do you.



St. Peter, pray for our wayward brother.
“God,”
The words rumbled:
“There is much suffering,
But the church is alive. "

 “How long, Archpriest, are we to suffer thus?” I answered: “Until our very death, Markovna!” And she replied, with a sigh: “So be it, Petrovich, let us plod on.” - Life of Avvakum by Himself

Nastasya, Nastasya, be
patient and do not cry:
Not every happiness
Comes in the clothing of fortune.

St. Avvakum, pray for us!

St. Ambrose, pray for us!

I change my picture daily to reflect feast days. Ask me!

Offline andrewlya

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2018, 06:06:31 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius I follow the Bible, but yes I believe in one God the Father and wish we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Catholics are not pagans, we do not follow the Jewish shabbat on Saturday, and no one was asking you to steer this ship off course again.

This board is Orthodox. What do you not understand?

Can't you go belch your garbage somewhere else?
Catholics are not pagans? haha yeah if serving graven images, statutes is not pagan then you really have not got a clue :D

WE ARE NOT ROMAN CATHOLICS. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU LAST TIME?

That is not the point, I say it is ironic you are not Roman Catholics but follow their instructions:

''The Sunday law was officially confirmed by the Roman Papacy. The Council of Laodicea in A.D. 364 decreed, “Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honour, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ” (Strand, op. cit., citing Charles J. Hefele, A History of the Councils of the Church, 2 [Edinburgh, 1876] 316).

Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, 92nd ed., p. 89, freely admits, “You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [the Catholic Church] never sanctify.”

Again, “The Catholic Church, … by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday” (The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893).

“Protestants do not realize that by observing Sunday, they accept the authority of the spokesperson of the Church, the Pope” (Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950).

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [Saturday Sabbath to Sunday] was her act... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things” (H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons).

“Sunday is our mark of authority… the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact” (Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1, 1923).''

I must agree, the Orthodox Church created with Divine inspiration the Bible, which it gave to you. I completely agree.

Do you say that the Church is above the Word of God i.e. the Bible?
I believe in One God- the Heavenly Father Yahweh-John 17:3,1 Corinthians 8:6
I believe in the Son of the Living God- Yahshua our Messiah-Matthew 16:16

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2018, 06:07:29 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius I follow the Bible, but yes I believe in one God the Father and wish we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Catholics are not pagans, we do not follow the Jewish shabbat on Saturday, and no one was asking you to steer this ship off course again.

This board is Orthodox. What do you not understand?

Can't you go belch your garbage somewhere else?
Catholics are not pagans? haha yeah if serving graven images, statutes is not pagan then you really have not got a clue :D

WE ARE NOT ROMAN CATHOLICS. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU LAST TIME?

That is not the point, I say it is ironic you are not Roman Catholics but follow their instructions:

''The Sunday law was officially confirmed by the Roman Papacy. The Council of Laodicea in A.D. 364 decreed, “Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honour, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ” (Strand, op. cit., citing Charles J. Hefele, A History of the Councils of the Church, 2 [Edinburgh, 1876] 316).

Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, 92nd ed., p. 89, freely admits, “You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [the Catholic Church] never sanctify.”

Again, “The Catholic Church, … by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday” (The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893).

“Protestants do not realize that by observing Sunday, they accept the authority of the spokesperson of the Church, the Pope” (Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950).

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [Saturday Sabbath to Sunday] was her act... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things” (H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons).

“Sunday is our mark of authority… the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact” (Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1, 1923).''

I must agree, the Orthodox Church created with Divine inspiration the Bible, which it gave to you. I completely agree.

Do you say that the Church is above the Word of God i.e. the Bible?

I'd say it is above in the way God (Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father, and the Holy Spirit in one Holy Trinity) is above creation.
“God,”
The words rumbled:
“There is much suffering,
But the church is alive. "

 “How long, Archpriest, are we to suffer thus?” I answered: “Until our very death, Markovna!” And she replied, with a sigh: “So be it, Petrovich, let us plod on.” - Life of Avvakum by Himself

Nastasya, Nastasya, be
patient and do not cry:
Not every happiness
Comes in the clothing of fortune.

St. Avvakum, pray for us!

St. Ambrose, pray for us!

I change my picture daily to reflect feast days. Ask me!

Offline andrewlya

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2018, 06:08:27 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius I follow the Bible, but yes I believe in one God the Father and wish we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Catholics are not pagans, we do not follow the Jewish shabbat on Saturday, and no one was asking you to steer this ship off course again.

This board is Orthodox. What do you not understand?

Can't you go belch your garbage somewhere else?
Catholics are not pagans? haha yeah if serving graven images, statutes is not pagan then you really have not got a clue :D

If being a judaizing, Arian heretic isnt demonically influenced you really have not got a clue :D

Also:



Jesus Christ our God forgive our brother andrewlya. Lord, have mercy.

You think showing me an idol is going to change things? You don't know me do you.



St. Peter, pray for our wayward brother.

Calm down, the only mediator between us and our Father is the Man Yeshua the Messiah NOT icons:
''
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the Man Yeshua the Messiah,''1 Timothy 2:5
I believe in One God- the Heavenly Father Yahweh-John 17:3,1 Corinthians 8:6
I believe in the Son of the Living God- Yahshua our Messiah-Matthew 16:16

Offline andrewlya

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2018, 06:10:16 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius I follow the Bible, but yes I believe in one God the Father and wish we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Catholics are not pagans, we do not follow the Jewish shabbat on Saturday, and no one was asking you to steer this ship off course again.

This board is Orthodox. What do you not understand?

Can't you go belch your garbage somewhere else?
Catholics are not pagans? haha yeah if serving graven images, statutes is not pagan then you really have not got a clue :D

WE ARE NOT ROMAN CATHOLICS. DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU LAST TIME?

That is not the point, I say it is ironic you are not Roman Catholics but follow their instructions:

''The Sunday law was officially confirmed by the Roman Papacy. The Council of Laodicea in A.D. 364 decreed, “Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday but shall work on that day; but the Lord’s day they shall especially honour, and, as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ” (Strand, op. cit., citing Charles J. Hefele, A History of the Councils of the Church, 2 [Edinburgh, 1876] 316).

Cardinal Gibbons, in Faith of Our Fathers, 92nd ed., p. 89, freely admits, “You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we [the Catholic Church] never sanctify.”

Again, “The Catholic Church, … by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday” (The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893).

“Protestants do not realize that by observing Sunday, they accept the authority of the spokesperson of the Church, the Pope” (Our Sunday Visitor, February 5, 1950).

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change [Saturday Sabbath to Sunday] was her act... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things” (H.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons).

“Sunday is our mark of authority… the church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact” (Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1, 1923).''

I must agree, the Orthodox Church created with Divine inspiration the Bible, which it gave to you. I completely agree.

Do you say that the Church is above the Word of God i.e. the Bible?

I'd say it is above in the way God (Our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father, and the Holy Spirit in one Holy Trinity) is above creation.

You have even got your own trinity wrong, the Father is the FIRST person of your trinity not second.

Anyway, if you put men's Church above the God's word- then you are extremely brainwashed- good bye and I will pray to our Father for you!
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 06:11:29 PM by andrewlya »
I believe in One God- the Heavenly Father Yahweh-John 17:3,1 Corinthians 8:6
I believe in the Son of the Living God- Yahshua our Messiah-Matthew 16:16

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2018, 06:11:10 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius I follow the Bible, but yes I believe in one God the Father and wish we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Catholics are not pagans, we do not follow the Jewish shabbat on Saturday, and no one was asking you to steer this ship off course again.

This board is Orthodox. What do you not understand?

Can't you go belch your garbage somewhere else?
Catholics are not pagans? haha yeah if serving graven images, statutes is not pagan then you really have not got a clue :D

If being a judaizing, Arian heretic isnt demonically influenced you really have not got a clue :D

Also:



Jesus Christ our God forgive our brother andrewlya. Lord, have mercy.

You think showing me an idol is going to change things? You don't know me do you.



St. Peter, pray for our wayward brother.

Calm down, the only mediator between us and our Father is the Man Yeshua the Messiah NOT icons:
''
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the Man Yeshua the Messiah,''1 Timothy 2:5

Keep calm and pray to the Theotokos.



I am bowing out of this thread and suggest mods lock it as it's unproductive.
“God,”
The words rumbled:
“There is much suffering,
But the church is alive. "

 “How long, Archpriest, are we to suffer thus?” I answered: “Until our very death, Markovna!” And she replied, with a sigh: “So be it, Petrovich, let us plod on.” - Life of Avvakum by Himself

Nastasya, Nastasya, be
patient and do not cry:
Not every happiness
Comes in the clothing of fortune.

St. Avvakum, pray for us!

St. Ambrose, pray for us!

I change my picture daily to reflect feast days. Ask me!

Offline biro

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2018, 06:11:35 PM »
Oh hey, looks like the New Testament church thought the church was the pillar and ground of the truth!


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy+3:15&version=DRA

1 Timothy 3:15 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.


WHY ARE YOU DRAGGING THIS THREAD OFF TOPIC? WHY DID YOU COME BACK TO RAMBLE ON?
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


Warning: stories have mature content.

Offline andrewlya

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2018, 06:17:12 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius I follow the Bible, but yes I believe in one God the Father and wish we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Catholics are not pagans, we do not follow the Jewish shabbat on Saturday, and no one was asking you to steer this ship off course again.

This board is Orthodox. What do you not understand?

Can't you go belch your garbage somewhere else?
Catholics are not pagans? haha yeah if serving graven images, statutes is not pagan then you really have not got a clue :D

If being a judaizing, Arian heretic isnt demonically influenced you really have not got a clue :D

Also:



Jesus Christ our God forgive our brother andrewlya. Lord, have mercy.

You think showing me an idol is going to change things? You don't know me do you.



St. Peter, pray for our wayward brother.

Calm down, the only mediator between us and our Father is the Man Yeshua the Messiah NOT icons:
''
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the Man Yeshua the Messiah,''1 Timothy 2:5

Keep calm and pray to the Theotokos.



I am bowing out of this thread and suggest mods lock it as it's unproductive.

You are kidding me, right?
Our Messiah told us to pray to our FATHER (Matthew 6:9-13) not so  called "Theotokos." Which verse is this based on?
I believe in One God- the Heavenly Father Yahweh-John 17:3,1 Corinthians 8:6
I believe in the Son of the Living God- Yahshua our Messiah-Matthew 16:16

Offline andrewlya

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2018, 06:18:19 PM »
Anyway, I wanted to discuss obedience and was happy someone said we should follow God's Commandments which I agree.
I believe in One God- the Heavenly Father Yahweh-John 17:3,1 Corinthians 8:6
I believe in the Son of the Living God- Yahshua our Messiah-Matthew 16:16

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2018, 07:04:19 PM »
Thanks, Jack Chick.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Obediencej
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2018, 08:55:25 PM »
Thread locked pending review.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2018, 09:32:33 PM »
andrewlya,

Having been warned for violations of this rule in the past, I'm certain you are aware that the participation of non-Orthodox in this section is restricted and that non-Orthodox positions are not to be promoted here.  Yet, in your posts in this thread, you have:

1.  alleged that Sunday worship is pagan
2.  rejected the Trinity in itself and as a "(Roman) Catholic" innovation
3.  rejected the veneration of icons as idolatry
4.  rejected the veneration of the saints
5.  rejected the teaching that Mary is Theotokos
6.  cited Roman Catholic (i.e., non-Orthodox) literature to substantiate your claims against Orthodox.

Very bad.  Evidently my patient, lenient discipline with regard to your past violations was not helpful. 

Therefore, I am imposing a warning of one hundred and twenty (120) points, to be administered in two sixty (60) point installments.  If you would like to appeal this warning, and you are actually able to use the PM system, you may address your appeal to Dominika, the global moderator overseeing this section. 

Mor Ephrem, moderator

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2018, 09:49:08 PM »
Oh hey, looks like the New Testament church thought the church was the pillar and ground of the truth!


https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Timothy+3:15&version=DRA

1 Timothy 3:15 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.


WHY ARE YOU DRAGGING THIS THREAD OFF TOPIC? WHY DID YOU COME BACK TO RAMBLE ON?

biro,

The post above is just one of a few in which you have stretched the limits of the rules' allowance for members to informally warn others of potential violations and crossed into attempted moderation.  Furthermore, by engaging in this behaviour and carrying on a (prohibited) personal argument in the public fora, and only afterwards reporting the thread to the moderator's attention, you contributed to making a bad situation worse. 

Therefore, I am imposing a warning of forty (40) points.  If you would like to appeal this warning, you may address your appeal to Dominika, the global moderator overseeing this section. 

Mor Ephrem, moderator 

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #33 on: October 08, 2018, 09:54:45 PM »
Just for Svetlana's benefit, I'd like to point out that this man is an Arian.
I am not an Arian, I do not follow Arius but I do prefer his theology to that of Catholic trinity. I am a simple believer who tries to follow the Bible and believe in one God the Father and One Messiah. I also pray we could go back to the true day of worship which is Shabbat (Saturday) instead of following Catholics man made Sun-pagan worship- day.

Wrong. You pray to a demon who influences you with these evil ideas and the archheresiarch Arius, lord have mercy on him, as he has sinned greatly.

Briven,

While I sympathise with the overall point you are trying to make, accusing someone of praying to demons is still too polemical for this section, which allows for no polemics, and as subsequent posts made clear, it only made matters worse. 

Since you are new here and have not received any warnings in the past, consider this a firm but friendly warning not to repeat this error in the future.  Also, please feel free to review the forum rules and contact me or any of the other moderators via PM if you have any questions about them. 

Mor Ephrem, moderator

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #34 on: October 08, 2018, 09:55:08 PM »
Thread unlocked.  Behave.

Offline Opus118

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2018, 10:25:50 AM »
I guess my questions would be:

When should you not be obedient?
What are the commonly occurring examples for this situation?
If there aren't common examples, what are the rare ones that we should be prepared for?
If you cannot remember everything, instead of everything, I beg you, remember this without fail, that not to share our own wealth with the poor is theft from the poor and deprivation of their means of life; we do not possess our own wealth but theirs.  If we have this attitude, we will certainly offer our money; and by nourishing Christ in poverty here and laying up great profit hereafter, we will be able to attain the good things which are to come. - St. John Chrysostom

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2018, 10:46:50 AM »
I guess my questions would be:

When should you not be obedient?

One would be:

Quote
But as for those persons, on the other hand, who, on account of some heresy condemned by holy Synods, or Fathers, withdrawing themselves from communion with their president, who, that is to say, is preaching the heresy publicly, and teaching it bareheaded in church, such persons not only are not subject to any canonical penalty on account of their having walled themselves off from any and all communion with the one called a Bishop before any conciliar or synodical verdict has been rendered, but, on the contrary, they shall be deemed worthy to enjoy the honor which befits them among Orthodox Christians.

-- Canon 15 of the First-Second Council

An example that arises from time to time is the attempt to raise later innovations (pentarchies, etc.) up as though they have the same weight and authority as apostolic tradition. Usually it doesn't get to the point of outright heresy, but that's often partly because of people expressing concern.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 10:47:47 AM by Asteriktos »

Offline WPM

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #37 on: October 09, 2018, 11:38:49 AM »
obedience and discipline is a type of virtue
The Sign and Prayers to the Blessed Virgin Mary

Offline Opus118

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2018, 11:50:54 AM »
I guess my questions would be:

When should you not be obedient?

One would be:

Quote
But as for those persons, on the other hand, who, on account of some heresy condemned by holy Synods, or Fathers, withdrawing themselves from communion with their president, who, that is to say, is preaching the heresy publicly, and teaching it bareheaded in church, such persons not only are not subject to any canonical penalty on account of their having walled themselves off from any and all communion with the one called a Bishop before any conciliar or synodical verdict has been rendered, but, on the contrary, they shall be deemed worthy to enjoy the honor which befits them among Orthodox Christians.

-- Canon 15 of the First-Second Council

An example that arises from time to time is the attempt to raise later innovations (pentarchies, etc.) up as though they have the same weight and authority as apostolic tradition. Usually it doesn't get to the point of outright heresy, but that's often partly because of people expressing concern.

This is really confusing. I am guessing I should always convene a synod before I become disobedient, to be  safe.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 11:52:04 AM by Opus118 »
If you cannot remember everything, instead of everything, I beg you, remember this without fail, that not to share our own wealth with the poor is theft from the poor and deprivation of their means of life; we do not possess our own wealth but theirs.  If we have this attitude, we will certainly offer our money; and by nourishing Christ in poverty here and laying up great profit hereafter, we will be able to attain the good things which are to come. - St. John Chrysostom

Offline Svetlana

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Re: Obedience
« Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 04:13:47 PM »
21st century guidelines are needed, of when to obey and when to use our own best judgment.  Perhaps we need a new term.  Human nature tends to abuse authority and 'obedience' requirements.  Holy Spirit teaches us to discern for ourselves.  Best pastoring is to simply guide us to obey Him.  And otherwise, we must protect ourselves from 'the cloaked staff.'