Author Topic: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism  (Read 18273 times)

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Offline Al Masihi

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Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« on: September 10, 2018, 05:39:51 AM »
I think I’m moving towards Eastern Catholicism, specifically Melkite Catholicism (due to it having a special place in my heart). I see Eastern Catholicism as a repaired bridge between us and the West.

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2018, 06:09:31 AM »
As St. Mark of Ephesus said:

“‘But if,’ they say, ‘we had devised some middle ground between the dogmas (of the Papists and the Orthodox), then thanks to this we would have united with them and accomplished our business superbly, without at all having been forced to say anything except what corresponds to custom and has been handed down (by the Fathers).’ This is precisely the means by which many, from of old, have been deceived and persuaded to follow those who have led them off the steep precipice of impiety; believing that there is some middle ground between the two teachings that can reconcile obvious contradictions, they have been exposed to peril.”

“These people admit with the Latins that the Holy Spirit proceeds and derives His existence from the Son. Yet, with us, they say the Spirit proceeds from the Father. The Latins imagine that this addition to the Creed is lawful and just, but we will not so much as pronounce it. They state that unleavened bread is the body of Christ, but we dare not communicate it. Is this not sufficient to exhibit that they came to the Latin council not to investigate the truth, which they once possessed and then betrayed, but simply to earn some gold and attain a false union? Behold, they read two Creeds as they did before. They perform two different liturgies – one on leavened and the other on unleavened bread. They perform two baptisms – one by triple immersion and the other by aspersion; one with Holy Chrism and the other without it. All our Orthodox customs are different from those of the Latins, including our fasts, Church rites, icons, and many other things. What sort of union is this then, when it has no external sign? How could they come together, each retaining his own?”
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Offline Al Masihi

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2018, 06:26:32 AM »
Through the Father and And the Son essentially mean the same thing. These expressions mean the same thing because everything the Son has is from the Father. The proceeding of the Spirit from the Son is something the Son himself received from the Father. The procession of the Spirit is therefore ultimately rooted in the Father but goes through the Son. Unity is achieved through recognizing the chair of Peter as Rome and accepting her primacy, all believe in essentially the same doctrines and dogmas while each rite expresses the faith differently. If being united in Rome is not enough to show external unity, then how does the Triune God himself show external unity with each of his persons. Just as each person of God is completely different in their own right each are united by nature as One Triune God.

Offline Dominika

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2018, 06:49:41 AM »
I see Eastern Catholicism as a repaired bridge between us and the West.

I wouldn''t say that, lookng at history in Poland, Ukraine, but also Arab countries - instead of being one, more divisions, thefts of the temples and even murders. Plus in Arab countries it was also path Orthodoxy => Eastern Catholicism => Protestant.

Offline Al Masihi

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2018, 07:12:44 AM »
Protestantism barely exists in Arab countries, it’s usually brought by American and European missionaries. I believe the lack of unity was a result of many existing Churches to answer the call of reunion, not as a result of the call to unity in itself.

Offline Samn!

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2018, 07:29:26 AM »
Protestantism barely exists in Arab countries, it’s usually brought by American and European missionaries.

Eastern Catholicism was also a creation of European missionaries in the Levant....

Offline Al Masihi

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2018, 07:37:19 AM »
That’s incorrect, most European Catholic missionaries wanted to Latinize the indigenous middle eastern Christians, unity in the catholic faith wasn’t their goal. As in the case of the Melkites, some middle eastern Christians simply wanted to reestablish communion with Rome.

Offline Samn!

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2018, 07:48:00 AM »
As in the case of the Melkites, some middle eastern Christians simply wanted to reestablish communion with Rome.

Well not really. The group that began the Melkite Catholic Church, starting with the metropolitan of Sidon, Euthymios Sayfi, wanted to have the Tridentine rite in Arabic. It was only later that they moved to a more Orthodox-leaning position, largely under the influence of Gallicanism, starting with their patriarch Germanos Adam.

In the case of the first patriarch of the Melkite Catholics, Euthymios' nephew Cyril Tannas, two new bishops had to be specially consecrated by missionaries for the occasion in order to reach the canonical quorum for a consecration because only one local bishop was interested in joining Rome.

Offline Al Masihi

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2018, 08:25:26 AM »
But the fact remains a Bishop of an Orthodox Church chose communion with Rome.

Offline Dominika

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2018, 08:30:09 AM »
But the fact remains a Bishop of an Orthodox Church chose communion with Rome.

Catholic missions, in the Commonwealth and also in Levant were organising schools, as they were richer. So, Orthodox children were attending such schools. By education, but sometimes also by sacraments, step by step they were becoming only nominal Orthodox. Having such ground, it wasn't so difficult to introduce union. Edit: I t was so cunning. I just always ask: if Catholic (and also Protestant) missionaries had pure intentions, why they didn't try to work among Muslims, istead of catching sheep among already Christian (and much older regarding that, more ancient) population?... I don't count attempts with Alawites, as they were thought in the beginning to be a kind of Christians.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 08:33:18 AM by Dominika »

Offline Samn!

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2018, 08:31:15 AM »
But the fact remains a Bishop of an Orthodox Church chose communion with Rome.

Under missionary influence and with material and political encouragement, yes. Lots of bishops choose to do zany things and make mistakes.

Offline Rohzek

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2018, 08:42:16 AM »
Through the Father and And the Son essentially mean the same thing. These expressions mean the same thing because everything the Son has is from the Father. The proceeding of the Spirit from the Son is something the Son himself received from the Father. The procession of the Spirit is therefore ultimately rooted in the Father but goes through the Son. Unity is achieved through recognizing the chair of Peter as Rome and accepting her primacy, all believe in essentially the same doctrines and dogmas while each rite expresses the faith differently. If being united in Rome is not enough to show external unity, then how does the Triune God himself show external unity with each of his persons. Just as each person of God is completely different in their own right each are united by nature as One Triune God.

You do realize that there are many Orthodox who accept what you just said with regards to the Trinity and even recognize Rome as professing such, at least currently? Yet they also do not join communion with Rome for other reasons. Furthermore, I find it quite strange that you are using the Trinity to analogize the institution of the papacy. Where exactly do you get that from? I've never heard of it before, even from when I was Catholic.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 08:42:47 AM by Rohzek »
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2018, 09:26:24 AM »
But the fact remains a Bishop of an Orthodox Church chose communion with Rome.
And break communion with the rest of the Orthodox world. 
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 09:26:35 AM by hecma925 »
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Offline Al Masihi

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2018, 10:58:57 AM »
But the fact remains a Bishop of an Orthodox Church chose communion with Rome.

Catholic missions, in the Commonwealth and also in Levant were organising schools, as they were richer. So, Orthodox children were attending such schools. By education, but sometimes also by sacraments, step by step they were becoming only nominal Orthodox. Having such ground, it wasn't so difficult to introduce union. Edit: I t was so cunning. I just always ask: if Catholic (and also Protestant) missionaries had pure intentions, why they didn't try to work among Muslims, istead of catching sheep among already Christian (and much older regarding that, more ancient) population?... I don't count attempts with Alawites, as they were thought in the beginning to be a kind of Christians.
Do you have a source for the above information? I do remember reading about a English Protestant missionary who proselytized Alawites, but Alawites aren’t really Muslims, it’s like Mormonism is to Christians just more secretive and cult like. I think a major reason behind the lack of prostelyzing muslims was the blasphemy and apostasy laws that come with prostelyzing them.

Offline Al Masihi

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2018, 11:00:58 AM »
Through the Father and And the Son essentially mean the same thing. These expressions mean the same thing because everything the Son has is from the Father. The proceeding of the Spirit from the Son is something the Son himself received from the Father. The procession of the Spirit is therefore ultimately rooted in the Father but goes through the Son. Unity is achieved through recognizing the chair of Peter as Rome and accepting her primacy, all believe in essentially the same doctrines and dogmas while each rite expresses the faith differently. If being united in Rome is not enough to show external unity, then how does the Triune God himself show external unity with each of his persons. Just as each person of God is completely different in their own right each are united by nature as One Triune God.

You do realize that there are many Orthodox who accept what you just said with regards to the Trinity and even recognize Rome as professing such, at least currently? Yet they also do not join communion with Rome for other reasons. Furthermore, I find it quite strange that you are using the Trinity to analogize the institution of the papacy. Where exactly do you get that from? I've never heard of it before, even from when I was Catholic.
I was using the Trinity as an analogy to comparing the diversity and unity in the Catholic Church.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2018, 11:06:27 AM »
Why would anybody want to voluntarily go under Papal Supremacy, especially in these "interesting times?" Aren't the inter-Patriacharte squabbles bad enough for you without having to "recognize and resist" your own allegedly Supreme Pontiff?

I can understand wanting Christendom to be united, I want this too, but at some point you have to face the reality that it's never going to happen this side of End. If you become an Eastern Catholic, then by definition you're breaking communion with Orthodoxy. If you stay Orthodox, then you're not in communion with the Pope. It's the just the way it is, I'm sorry.
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Offline Rohzek

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2018, 11:14:43 AM »
Through the Father and And the Son essentially mean the same thing. These expressions mean the same thing because everything the Son has is from the Father. The proceeding of the Spirit from the Son is something the Son himself received from the Father. The procession of the Spirit is therefore ultimately rooted in the Father but goes through the Son. Unity is achieved through recognizing the chair of Peter as Rome and accepting her primacy, all believe in essentially the same doctrines and dogmas while each rite expresses the faith differently. If being united in Rome is not enough to show external unity, then how does the Triune God himself show external unity with each of his persons. Just as each person of God is completely different in their own right each are united by nature as One Triune God.

You do realize that there are many Orthodox who accept what you just said with regards to the Trinity and even recognize Rome as professing such, at least currently? Yet they also do not join communion with Rome for other reasons. Furthermore, I find it quite strange that you are using the Trinity to analogize the institution of the papacy. Where exactly do you get that from? I've never heard of it before, even from when I was Catholic.
I was using the Trinity as an analogy to comparing the diversity and unity in the Catholic Church.

I understand that you are using it as an analogy, but you also seem to imply that there is necessarily a moral necessity to be in union with Rome because of the structure of the Trinity. This proposition I do not understand. Could you perhaps explain it more? You also mention diversity and unity. For sure, at an institutional level, there is unity and diversity within the Catholic Church. But one can say the same of the Anglican Church and its communion, the Orthodox Church, etc.
"Il ne faut imaginer Dieu ni trop bon, ni méchant. La justice est entre l'excès de la clémence et la cruauté, ainsi que les peines finies sont entre l'impunité et les peines éternelles." - Denise Diderot, Pensées philosophiques 1746

Offline Lepanto

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2018, 11:19:08 AM »
Why would anybody want to voluntarily go under Papal Supremacy, especially in these "interesting times?" Aren't the inter-Patriacharte squabbles bad enough for you without having to "recognize and resist" your own allegedly Supreme Pontiff?

I can understand wanting Christendom to be united, I want this too, but at some point you have to face the reality that it's never going to happen this side of End. If you become an Eastern Catholic, then by definition you're breaking communion with Orthodoxy. If you stay Orthodox, then you're not in communion with the Pope. It's the just the way it is, I'm sorry.
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Offline Dominika

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2018, 12:00:06 PM »
Do you have a source for the above information? I do remember reading about a English Protestant missionary who proselytized Alawites, but Alawites aren’t really Muslims, it’s like Mormonism is to Christians just more secretive and cult like. I think a major reason behind the lack of prostelyzing muslims was the blasphemy and apostasy laws that come with prostelyzing them.

It was said at one of the lectures during my Arabic studies at Warsaw University, so, unfortunately, no, but I think it's not so difficult to find that.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 12:02:58 PM by Dominika »

Offline Al Masihi

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2018, 12:09:34 PM »
Through the Father and And the Son essentially mean the same thing. These expressions mean the same thing because everything the Son has is from the Father. The proceeding of the Spirit from the Son is something the Son himself received from the Father. The procession of the Spirit is therefore ultimately rooted in the Father but goes through the Son. Unity is achieved through recognizing the chair of Peter as Rome and accepting her primacy, all believe in essentially the same doctrines and dogmas while each rite expresses the faith differently. If being united in Rome is not enough to show external unity, then how does the Triune God himself show external unity with each of his persons. Just as each person of God is completely different in their own right each are united by nature as One Triune God.

You do realize that there are many Orthodox who accept what you just said with regards to the Trinity and even recognize Rome as professing such, at least currently? Yet they also do not join communion with Rome for other reasons. Furthermore, I find it quite strange that you are using the Trinity to analogize the institution of the papacy. Where exactly do you get that from? I've never heard of it before, even from when I was Catholic.
I was using the Trinity as an analogy to comparing the diversity and unity in the Catholic Church.

I understand that you are using it as an analogy, but you also seem to imply that there is necessarily a moral necessity to be in union with Rome because of the structure of the Trinity. This proposition I do not understand. Could you perhaps explain it more? You also mention diversity and unity. For sure, at an institutional level, there is unity and diversity within the Catholic Church. But one can say the same of the Anglican Church and its communion, the Orthodox Church, etc.
I brought up the Trinity to refute the claim that differences in liturgy don’t equal communion with Rome. The Anglican Church was originally part of the Catholic Church, I feel the Orthodox Church is to grounded up on mainly being Churches for the main ethnic groups which compose it (Greeks, Russians, Serbs, Syrians, Albanians etc) instead of being all encompassing and universal.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2018, 12:29:31 PM »
Through the Father and And the Son essentially mean the same thing. These expressions mean the same thing because everything the Son has is from the Father. The proceeding of the Spirit from the Son is something the Son himself received from the Father. The procession of the Spirit is therefore ultimately rooted in the Father but goes through the Son. Unity is achieved through recognizing the chair of Peter as Rome and accepting her primacy, all believe in essentially the same doctrines and dogmas while each rite expresses the faith differently. If being united in Rome is not enough to show external unity, then how does the Triune God himself show external unity with each of his persons. Just as each person of God is completely different in their own right each are united by nature as One Triune God.

You do realize that there are many Orthodox who accept what you just said with regards to the Trinity and even recognize Rome as professing such, at least currently? Yet they also do not join communion with Rome for other reasons. Furthermore, I find it quite strange that you are using the Trinity to analogize the institution of the papacy. Where exactly do you get that from? I've never heard of it before, even from when I was Catholic.
I was using the Trinity as an analogy to comparing the diversity and unity in the Catholic Church.

I understand that you are using it as an analogy, but you also seem to imply that there is necessarily a moral necessity to be in union with Rome because of the structure of the Trinity. This proposition I do not understand. Could you perhaps explain it more? You also mention diversity and unity. For sure, at an institutional level, there is unity and diversity within the Catholic Church. But one can say the same of the Anglican Church and its communion, the Orthodox Church, etc.
I brought up the Trinity to refute the claim that differences in liturgy don’t equal communion with Rome. The Anglican Church was originally part of the Catholic Church, I feel the Orthodox Church is to grounded up on mainly being Churches for the main ethnic groups which compose it (Greeks, Russians, Serbs, Syrians, Albanians etc) instead of being all encompassing and universal.

And as an Eastern Catholic, you'll basically be a second class citizen in an ethnic ghetto while the "default setting" for Catholic is the Latin rite. Is that any better?
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Al Masihi

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2018, 01:57:26 PM »
Through the Father and And the Son essentially mean the same thing. These expressions mean the same thing because everything the Son has is from the Father. The proceeding of the Spirit from the Son is something the Son himself received from the Father. The procession of the Spirit is therefore ultimately rooted in the Father but goes through the Son. Unity is achieved through recognizing the chair of Peter as Rome and accepting her primacy, all believe in essentially the same doctrines and dogmas while each rite expresses the faith differently. If being united in Rome is not enough to show external unity, then how does the Triune God himself show external unity with each of his persons. Just as each person of God is completely different in their own right each are united by nature as One Triune God.

You do realize that there are many Orthodox who accept what you just said with regards to the Trinity and even recognize Rome as professing such, at least currently? Yet they also do not join communion with Rome for other reasons. Furthermore, I find it quite strange that you are using the Trinity to analogize the institution of the papacy. Where exactly do you get that from? I've never heard of it before, even from when I was Catholic.
I was using the Trinity as an analogy to comparing the diversity and unity in the Catholic Church.

I understand that you are using it as an analogy, but you also seem to imply that there is necessarily a moral necessity to be in union with Rome because of the structure of the Trinity. This proposition I do not understand. Could you perhaps explain it more? You also mention diversity and unity. For sure, at an institutional level, there is unity and diversity within the Catholic Church. But one can say the same of the Anglican Church and its communion, the Orthodox Church, etc.
I brought up the Trinity to refute the claim that differences in liturgy don’t equal communion with Rome. The Anglican Church was originally part of the Catholic Church, I feel the Orthodox Church is to grounded up on mainly being Churches for the main ethnic groups which compose it (Greeks, Russians, Serbs, Syrians, Albanians etc) instead of being all encompassing and universal.

And as an Eastern Catholic, you'll basically be a second class citizen in an ethnic ghetto while the "default setting" for Catholic is the Latin rite. Is that any better?
There is no default setting for Catholics, there’s a majority rite which is the Latin rite and a few minority ones such as the Byzantine, Syriac, and Coptic rite. All Catholics share in the same rights and spirituality as I see it.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2018, 02:01:36 PM »
We have no need for a bridge to be made with the West and its heresies, "for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" (2 Corinthians 6:14)
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2018, 02:06:11 PM »
I feel the Orthodox Church is to grounded up on mainly being Churches for the main ethnic groups which compose it (Greeks, Russians, Serbs, Syrians, Albanians etc) instead of being all encompassing and universal.
This is just a lie Catholics tell to either bully the Orthodox or resentfully express their individual bad experiences.

How can the Orthodox Church be so ethnic if it's the main church of more than a hundred ethnicies all around the world, and has significant communities of hundreds of other ethnicies? It's basically racism as it mashes up all the diversity within the Orthodox Church as just one single Orthodox ethnicity. I don't understand how can this be claimed so often while anyone would be deemed as crazy if they said "I feel the Catholic Church is too grounded up on mainly being Churches for the main ethnic groups which compose it (Latinos, Irish, Bavarians, Lebanese, Chaldeans etc) instead of being all encompassing and universal."
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 02:07:13 PM by RaphaCam »
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2018, 02:07:42 PM »
There is no default setting for Catholics, there’s a majority rite which is the Latin rite and a few minority ones such as the Byzantine, Syriac, and Coptic rite. All Catholics share in the same rights and spirituality as I see it.
Yeah, the same rights and spirituality until the Pope literally steps on the Melkite Patriarch's head.
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Offline Al Masihi

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2018, 02:14:14 PM »
I feel the Orthodox Church is to grounded up on mainly being Churches for the main ethnic groups which compose it (Greeks, Russians, Serbs, Syrians, Albanians etc) instead of being all encompassing and universal.
This is just a lie Catholics tell to either bully the Orthodox or resentfully express their individual bad experiences.

How can the Orthodox Church be so ethnic if it's the main church of more than a hundred ethnicies all around the world, and has significant communities of hundreds of other ethnicies? It's basically racism as it mashes up all the diversity within the Orthodox Church as just one single Orthodox ethnicity. I don't understand how can this be claimed so often while anyone would be deemed as crazy if they said "I feel the Catholic Church is too grounded up on mainly being Churches for the main ethnic groups which compose it (Latinos, Irish, Bavarians, Lebanese, Chaldeans etc) instead of being all encompassing and universal."
I Don’t mean to offend, but it’s no secret that the Orthodox Church is divided by ethnic boundaries where the Catholic Church is not.

Offline Al Masihi

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2018, 02:16:56 PM »
There is no default setting for Catholics, there’s a majority rite which is the Latin rite and a few minority ones such as the Byzantine, Syriac, and Coptic rite. All Catholics share in the same rights and spirituality as I see it.
Yeah, the same rights and spirituality until the Pope literally steps on the Melkite Patriarch's head.
I’ve heard that story before, I don’t think it’s entirely true though.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 02:17:44 PM by Al Masihi »

Offline Al Masihi

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2018, 02:18:58 PM »
We have no need for a bridge to be made with the West and its heresies, "for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" (2 Corinthians 6:14)
I don’t think the West has the heresies we think they do.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2018, 02:25:13 PM »
Through the Father and And the Son essentially mean the same thing. These expressions mean the same thing because everything the Son has is from the Father. The proceeding of the Spirit from the Son is something the Son himself received from the Father. The procession of the Spirit is therefore ultimately rooted in the Father but goes through the Son. Unity is achieved through recognizing the chair of Peter as Rome and accepting her primacy, all believe in essentially the same doctrines and dogmas while each rite expresses the faith differently. If being united in Rome is not enough to show external unity, then how does the Triune God himself show external unity with each of his persons. Just as each person of God is completely different in their own right each are united by nature as One Triune God.

You do realize that there are many Orthodox who accept what you just said with regards to the Trinity and even recognize Rome as professing such, at least currently? Yet they also do not join communion with Rome for other reasons. Furthermore, I find it quite strange that you are using the Trinity to analogize the institution of the papacy. Where exactly do you get that from? I've never heard of it before, even from when I was Catholic.
I was using the Trinity as an analogy to comparing the diversity and unity in the Catholic Church.

I understand that you are using it as an analogy, but you also seem to imply that there is necessarily a moral necessity to be in union with Rome because of the structure of the Trinity. This proposition I do not understand. Could you perhaps explain it more? You also mention diversity and unity. For sure, at an institutional level, there is unity and diversity within the Catholic Church. But one can say the same of the Anglican Church and its communion, the Orthodox Church, etc.
I brought up the Trinity to refute the claim that differences in liturgy don’t equal communion with Rome. The Anglican Church was originally part of the Catholic Church, I feel the Orthodox Church is to grounded up on mainly being Churches for the main ethnic groups which compose it (Greeks, Russians, Serbs, Syrians, Albanians etc) instead of being all encompassing and universal.

And as an Eastern Catholic, you'll basically be a second class citizen in an ethnic ghetto while the "default setting" for Catholic is the Latin rite. Is that any better?
There is no default setting for Catholics, there’s a majority rite which is the Latin rite and a few minority ones such as the Byzantine, Syriac, and Coptic rite. All Catholics share in the same rights and spirituality as I see it.

There's not supposed to be a default setting, but there is just the same. Just ask somebody on here like Sharbel who used to be an Eastern Catholic. Latins as a whole have little knowledge of and respect for their Eastern co-religionists, at best you'd be an exotic curiosity.

I'm not saying that Orthodoxy has no problems with division. I'm saying that the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence (if you'll permit me an Americanism).
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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2018, 02:28:59 PM »
We have no need for a bridge to be made with the West and its heresies, "for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" (2 Corinthians 6:14)
I don’t think the West has the heresies we think they do.

Some differences are overblown (Divine Simplicity and maybe Purgatory, for examples), but not Papal Supremacy. That one's heretical however you slice it.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2018, 02:35:24 PM »
I Don’t mean to offend, but it’s no secret that the Orthodox Church is divided by ethnic boundaries where the Catholic Church is not.
Yeah, it's not a secret, it's Western chauvinism and blindness. The fact the ordinary Latin Catholic bishops accounts for 98% of Roman Catholics worldwide doesn't obscure the fact that the 2% left are divided in sui juris churches, special ordinariates, priestly societies, prelatures...

I’ve heard that story before, I don’t think it’s entirely true though.
Because the Pope is too holy for that and Archbishop Elias Zoghby is an Orthodox whistleblower?

I don’t think the West has the heresies we think they do.
So go on and declare "the East" to be heretical and schismatic, as a good Roman Catholic, rather than trying to build a non-existent "bridge" that never worked and never will since the Roman Catholic Church gets lost in more and more heresy and abuse while the Orthodox Church preserves faith and worship while too administratively confusing for half dozen sympathetic Byzantine Catholics to matter.

We have no need for a bridge to be made with the West and its heresies, "for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" (2 Corinthians 6:14)
I don’t think the West has the heresies we think they do.
Some differences are overblown (Divine Simplicity and maybe Purgatory, for examples), but not Papal Supremacy. That one's heretical however you slice it.
I agree that points like the purgatory are overstated, but I have no idea about the debate around divine simplicity. Scholastic theology, however, is definitely incompatible with "Palamism" (which is just Orthodox theology), however Catholics try to synthesise both. Papism is heretical too, however Eastern Catholics and Orthodox bleedingheart ecumenists try to make an administrative detail out of it.
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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2018, 02:50:10 PM »
It seems to me you have already set your mind.

Conversion from orthodoxy to catholicism isnt a step up, its step down and points towards atheism.

I wouldnt be surprised to see you one day posting as an atheist.

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2018, 02:55:28 PM »
It seems to me you have already set your mind.

Conversion from orthodoxy to catholicism isnt a step up, its step down and points towards atheism.

I wouldnt be surprised to see you one day posting as an atheist.

Agreed. Where did Atheism spring?


The Catholic (Protestant) West.
“God,”
The words rumbled:
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 “How long, Archpriest, are we to suffer thus?” I answered: “Until our very death, Markovna!” And she replied, with a sigh: “So be it, Petrovich, let us plod on.” - Life of Avvakum by Himself

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Comes in the clothing of fortune.

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2018, 03:00:45 PM »
It seems to me you have already set your mind.

Conversion from orthodoxy to catholicism isnt a step up, its step down and points towards atheism.

I wouldnt be surprised to see you one day posting as an atheist.

Agreed. Where did Atheism spring?


The Catholic (Protestant) West.

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sad to remember how the soviets were cruel atheists!
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 04:43:21 PM by Dominika »
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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2018, 03:01:37 PM »
It seems to me you have already set your mind.

Conversion from orthodoxy to catholicism isnt a step up, its step down and points towards atheism.

I wouldnt be surprised to see you one day posting as an atheist.

Oh, come on.
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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2018, 03:07:22 PM »
sad to remember how the soviets were cruel atheists!
Most Bolsheviks didn't have an Orthodox background, but rather Jewish, and Leninism was brought to Russia from Protestant Prussia. Haskalah Judaism gave birth to Marxism as it kept tikkun olam and the expentancy of a hidden Messianic age, but shunned mysticism. I don't mean to blame the Jews for this, it's just an example of how secularism creates corrupt versions of more ancient religious/ethical codes. In this case, Haskalah Judaism as opposed to Hasidic, and maybe to some extent litvik.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 03:12:34 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2018, 03:11:45 PM »
sad to remember how the soviets were cruel atheists!
Most Bolsheviks didn't have an Orthodox background, but rather Jewish, and Leninism was brought to Russia from Protestant Prussia. Haskalah Judaism gave birth to Marxism as it kept tikkun olam and the expentancy of a hidden Messianic age, but shunned mysticism.

This is partly true but Leninism is an outgrowth of Marxism.
“God,”
The words rumbled:
“There is much suffering,
But the church is alive. "

 “How long, Archpriest, are we to suffer thus?” I answered: “Until our very death, Markovna!” And she replied, with a sigh: “So be it, Petrovich, let us plod on.” - Life of Avvakum by Himself

Nastasya, Nastasya, be
patient and do not cry:
Not every happiness
Comes in the clothing of fortune.

St. Avvakum, pray for us!

St. Ambrose, pray for us!

My blog: http://pustozersk.blogspot.com

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2018, 03:17:14 PM »
It seems to me you have already set your mind.

Conversion from orthodoxy to catholicism isnt a step up, its step down and points towards atheism.

I wouldnt be surprised to see you one day posting as an atheist.

Agreed. Where did Atheism spring?


The Catholic (Protestant) West.
Atheism and early classical thoughts on the subject of Agnosticism and denial of deities, first sprung up in the Far East and in pre Christian Greece. Atheism is just as common in the Islamic Middle East as in the Catholic and Protestant West.

Offline Al Masihi

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2018, 03:18:28 PM »
It seems to me you have already set your mind.

Conversion from orthodoxy to catholicism isnt a step up, its step down and points towards atheism.

I wouldnt be surprised to see you one day posting as an atheist.

Agreed. Where did Atheism spring?


The Catholic (Protestant) West.

Аминь

sad to remember how the soviets were cruel atheists!
The Soviets held to a philosophy of dominating militant communism, they weren’t just Atheists.

Offline Al Masihi

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2018, 03:19:49 PM »
It seems to me you have already set your mind.

Conversion from orthodoxy to catholicism isnt a step up, its step down and points towards atheism.

I wouldnt be surprised to see you one day posting as an atheist.
Ive already been through my share of atheism and agnosticism coming out of Islam, its a page I’ve turned and I don’t plan on turning it back for a look.

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2018, 03:24:27 PM »
It seems to me you have already set your mind.

Conversion from orthodoxy to catholicism isnt a step up, its step down and points towards atheism.

I wouldnt be surprised to see you one day posting as an atheist.

Agreed. Where did Atheism spring?


The Catholic (Protestant) West.

Аминь

sad to remember how the soviets were cruel atheists!
The Soviets held to a philosophy of dominating militant communism, they weren’t just Atheists.

Their ideas came from demons
“God,”
The words rumbled:
“There is much suffering,
But the church is alive. "

 “How long, Archpriest, are we to suffer thus?” I answered: “Until our very death, Markovna!” And she replied, with a sigh: “So be it, Petrovich, let us plod on.” - Life of Avvakum by Himself

Nastasya, Nastasya, be
patient and do not cry:
Not every happiness
Comes in the clothing of fortune.

St. Avvakum, pray for us!

St. Ambrose, pray for us!

My blog: http://pustozersk.blogspot.com

Offline Al Masihi

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2018, 03:27:47 PM »
I Don’t mean to offend, but it’s no secret that the Orthodox Church is divided by ethnic boundaries where the Catholic Church is not.
Yeah, it's not a secret, it's Western chauvinism and blindness. The fact the ordinary Latin Catholic bishops accounts for 98% of Roman Catholics worldwide doesn't obscure the fact that the 2% left are divided in sui juris churches, special ordinariates, priestly societies, prelatures...

I’ve heard that story before, I don’t think it’s entirely true though.
Because the Pope is too holy for that and Archbishop Elias Zoghby is an Orthodox whistleblower?

I don’t think the West has the heresies we think they do.
So go on and declare "the East" to be heretical and schismatic, as a good Roman Catholic, rather than trying to build a non-existent "bridge" that never worked and never will since the Roman Catholic Church gets lost in more and more heresy and abuse while the Orthodox Church preserves faith and worship while too administratively confusing for half dozen sympathetic Byzantine Catholics to matter.

We have no need for a bridge to be made with the West and its heresies, "for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?" (2 Corinthians 6:14)
I don’t think the West has the heresies we think they do.
Some differences are overblown (Divine Simplicity and maybe Purgatory, for examples), but not Papal Supremacy. That one's heretical however you slice it.
I agree that points like the purgatory are overstated, but I have no idea about the debate around divine simplicity. Scholastic theology, however, is definitely incompatible with "Palamism" (which is just Orthodox theology), however Catholics try to synthesise both. Papism is heretical too, however Eastern Catholics and Orthodox bleedingheart ecumenists try to make an administrative detail out of it.
I disbelieve Pope Pius IX did that to the Melkite Patriarch due to the lack of evidence and witnesses to the story unless you were able to produce some, it has nothing to do with Pope Pius IX being to holy for that. Roman Catholics account for 98% of Catholics due to it being the rite of the majority, it doesn’t change the position of the minor Eastern Catholic rites. I could never call the East heretical because I and my ancestors were of the East, all I’m saying is there is a Schism between us and them and that it our fault as much as it is there’s. Abuse is common among all faiths in the world, it isn’t solely a Catholic problem.

Offline Al Masihi

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2018, 03:29:21 PM »
It seems to me you have already set your mind.

Conversion from orthodoxy to catholicism isnt a step up, its step down and points towards atheism.

I wouldnt be surprised to see you one day posting as an atheist.

Agreed. Where did Atheism spring?


The Catholic (Protestant) West.

Аминь

sad to remember how the soviets were cruel atheists!
The Soviets held to a philosophy of dominating militant communism, they weren’t just Atheists.

Their ideas came from demons
True, but you can’t blame Western Christianity for the whispers of Satan.

Offline Vanhyo

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2018, 03:37:47 PM »
It seems to me you have already set your mind.

Conversion from orthodoxy to catholicism isnt a step up, its step down and points towards atheism.

I wouldnt be surprised to see you one day posting as an atheist.

Agreed. Where did Atheism spring?


The Catholic (Protestant) West.
Atheism and early classical thoughts on the subject of Agnosticism and denial of deities, first sprung up in the Far East and in pre Christian Greece. Atheism is just as common in the Islamic Middle East as in the Catholic and Protestant West.
No, atheism is when Gods grace no longer illumine your heart, then the world and the passions in it will start to dictate your way of thinking which will genuinely seem like the most realistic and logical thing.

.

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Re: Moving towards Eastern Catholicism
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2018, 03:38:30 PM »
It seems to me you have already set your mind.

Conversion from orthodoxy to catholicism isnt a step up, its step down and points towards atheism.

I wouldnt be surprised to see you one day posting as an atheist.

Agreed. Where did Atheism spring?


The Catholic (Protestant) West.

Аминь

sad to remember how the soviets were cruel atheists!
The Soviets held to a philosophy of dominating militant communism, they weren’t just Atheists.

Their ideas came from demons
True, but you can’t blame Western Christianity for the whispers of Satan.

You can blame Satan for the whispers of heresy.
“God,”
The words rumbled:
“There is much suffering,
But the church is alive. "

 “How long, Archpriest, are we to suffer thus?” I answered: “Until our very death, Markovna!” And she replied, with a sigh: “So be it, Petrovich, let us plod on.” - Life of Avvakum by Himself

Nastasya, Nastasya, be
patient and do not cry:
Not every happiness
Comes in the clothing of fortune.

St. Avvakum, pray for us!

St. Ambrose, pray for us!

My blog: http://pustozersk.blogspot.com