Author Topic: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine  (Read 13699 times)

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Offline Ainnir

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #315 on: September 17, 2018, 07:28:06 AM »
Oh dear.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline juliogb

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #316 on: September 17, 2018, 07:47:51 AM »
I am reading lots of statements from patriarchs, bishops and archbishops and exclusing those under the EP jurisdiction, all the others are against Patriarch Bartholomew's actions in Ukraine, what makes me wonder for who the EP is working for.

You still need to use titles.  --Ainnir
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 07:52:31 AM by Ainnir »

Offline Ainnir

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #317 on: September 17, 2018, 07:57:25 AM »
Well being against someone's actions in an official statement and not commemorating them in the DL are very different, I think.  I'm open to correction, though.  And I guess we'll see what happens.   :-\
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline ICXCNIKA

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #318 on: September 17, 2018, 09:34:20 AM »
http://orthochristian.com/115803.html

GREEK METROPOLITAN CALLS ON CONSTANTINOPLE TO REPENT AND CEASE COMMUNICATION WITH UKRAINIAN SCHISMATICS

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #319 on: September 17, 2018, 01:34:57 PM »
I am reading lots of statements from patriarchs, bishops and archbishops and exclusing those under the EP jurisdiction, all the others are against Patriarch Bartholomew's actions in Ukraine, what makes me wonder for who the EP is working for.

My money’s on Langley.

Offline Arzelle

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #320 on: September 17, 2018, 06:31:54 PM »
I am reading lots of statements from patriarchs, bishops and archbishops and exclusing those under the EP jurisdiction, all the others are against Patriarch Bartholomew's actions in Ukraine, what makes me wonder for who the EP is working for.

My money’s on Langley.

My money's on Christ.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #321 on: September 17, 2018, 07:11:48 PM »
I am reading lots of statements from patriarchs, bishops and archbishops and exclusing those under the EP jurisdiction, all the others are against Patriarch Bartholomew's actions in Ukraine, what makes me wonder for who the EP is working for.

My money’s on Langley.

My money's on Christ.

Christ isn't in the business of inspiring borderline heretical insanity.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #322 on: September 17, 2018, 07:20:30 PM »
I am reading lots of statements from patriarchs, bishops and archbishops and exclusing those under the EP jurisdiction, all the others are against Patriarch Bartholomew's actions in Ukraine, what makes me wonder for who the EP is working for.

My money’s on Langley.

My money's on Christ.

Christ isn't in the business of inspiring borderline heretical insanity.

I specifically remember Him flipping tables for some reason.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #323 on: September 17, 2018, 07:39:15 PM »
I am reading lots of statements from patriarchs, bishops and archbishops and exclusing those under the EP jurisdiction, all the others are against Patriarch Bartholomew's actions in Ukraine, what makes me wonder for who the EP is working for.

My money’s on Langley.

My money's on Christ.

Christ isn't in the business of inspiring borderline heretical insanity.

I specifically remember Him flipping tables for some reason.

A very sane (in context) and specific action.


"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace..."- 1 Corinthians 14:33
« Last Edit: September 17, 2018, 07:40:41 PM by Volnutt »
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Arzelle

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #324 on: September 17, 2018, 08:14:07 PM »
I am reading lots of statements from patriarchs, bishops and archbishops and exclusing those under the EP jurisdiction, all the others are against Patriarch Bartholomew's actions in Ukraine, what makes me wonder for who the EP is working for.

My money’s on Langley.

My money's on Christ.

Christ isn't in the business of inspiring borderline heretical insanity.

No, but he is in the business of finding his lost sheep and calling them back into his fold.

Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #325 on: September 17, 2018, 08:43:32 PM »
I am reading lots of statements from patriarchs, bishops and archbishops and exclusing those under the EP jurisdiction, all the others are against Patriarch Bartholomew's actions in Ukraine, what makes me wonder for who the EP is working for.

My money’s on Langley.

My money's on Christ.

I agree with you.  It is too bad that some people, even as mega educated as they are in theology, still do not understand the basics.

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline Rohzek

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #326 on: September 17, 2018, 08:45:51 PM »
You are all wrong.

"Il ne faut imaginer Dieu ni trop bon, ni méchant. La justice est entre l'excès de la clémence et la cruauté, ainsi que les peines finies sont entre l'impunité et les peines éternelles." - Denise Diderot, Pensées philosophiques 1746

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #327 on: September 17, 2018, 08:46:52 PM »
I am reading lots of statements from patriarchs, bishops and archbishops and exclusing those under the EP jurisdiction, all the others are against Patriarch Bartholomew's actions in Ukraine, what makes me wonder for who the EP is working for.

My money’s on Langley.

My money's on Christ.

I agree with you.  It is too bad that some people, even as mega educated as they are in theology, still do not understand the basics.

How is "the Ecumenical Patriarch is the beginning of Orthodoxy" basic?
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #328 on: September 17, 2018, 08:55:05 PM »
I am reading lots of statements from patriarchs, bishops and archbishops and exclusing those under the EP jurisdiction, all the others are against Patriarch Bartholomew's actions in Ukraine, what makes me wonder for who the EP is working for.

My money’s on Langley.

My money's on Christ.

I agree with you.  It is too bad that some people, even as mega educated as they are in theology, still do not understand the basics.

Yes, like certain bishops.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #329 on: September 17, 2018, 08:55:17 PM »
I am reading lots of statements from patriarchs, bishops and archbishops and exclusing those under the EP jurisdiction, all the others are against Patriarch Bartholomew's actions in Ukraine, what makes me wonder for who the EP is working for.

My money’s on Langley.

My money's on Christ.

I agree with you.  It is too bad that some people, even as mega educated as they are in theology, still do not understand the basics.

How is "the Ecumenical Patriarch is the beginning of Orthodoxy" basic?

He's Greek.  He knows what Ukrainians want.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Orthodox_Slav

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #330 on: September 18, 2018, 11:25:11 AM »
St. Petersburg Metropolitan and Jerusalem Patriarch discuss Ukraine's crises

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63z1TTqvtwI
"Two Romes fell, a third stands, and there will not be a fourth one."—Philotheus of Pskov

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #331 on: September 18, 2018, 10:24:54 PM »

Online Asteriktos

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #332 on: September 18, 2018, 10:32:23 PM »
"We are all human beans. What is left now is for each of us to grow to our full potential in Christ." - Abba Hezekiah

Offline Opus118

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #333 on: September 19, 2018, 11:08:24 AM »
Historical documents: http://www.ec-patr.org/docdisplay.php?lang=gr&id=2566&tla=gr

Google translate is trying to tell us something...
This isn't the only case, the front page is worse:
http://www.ec-patr.org/athp.php?lang=gr
From what I can see, the word that translates to speeches/talks on other sites translates on this page as a four letter word for things that should be flushed down a toilet.

ΟΙΚΟΥΜΕΝΙΚΟΣ ΠΑΤΡΙΑΡΧΗΣ translates to Economic Patriarch whereas ΟΙΚΟΥΜΕΝΙΚΟΣ by itself, translates to ecumenical.
It kind of weird if you ask me.
If you cannot remember everything, instead of everything, I beg you, remember this without fail, that not to share our own wealth with the poor is theft from the poor and deprivation of their means of life; we do not possess our own wealth but theirs.  If we have this attitude, we will certainly offer our money; and by nourishing Christ in poverty here and laying up great profit hereafter, we will be able to attain the good things which are to come. - St. John Chrysostom

Offline Ainnir

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #334 on: September 19, 2018, 11:25:35 AM »
Thread locked, pending moderator review.  --Ainnir
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline Ainnir

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #335 on: September 19, 2018, 12:13:07 PM »
A political discussion was split off into the private fora.  Keep this one on topic.  Thread unlocked.  --Ainnir
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 12:13:55 PM by Ainnir »
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline juliogb

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #336 on: September 19, 2018, 01:10:00 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWumXnrgVug

This is an interesting video about ''patriarch'' Filaret. I dont know why, I cant watch it entirely and gets stuck somewhere around 15 minutes and doesnt load anymore.

Offline Orthodox_Slav

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #337 on: September 19, 2018, 01:16:13 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWumXnrgVug

This is an interesting video about ''patriarch'' Filaret. I dont know why, I cant watch it entirely and gets stuck somewhere around 15 minutes and doesnt load anymore.
i know this sounds crazy but this also happens to me (i tried every device i know even one far from my home) and i believe  someone is DDOS it or slow it down because they do not  want the truth out. i have seen the full video ages ago so it definitely used to work!
"Two Romes fell, a third stands, and there will not be a fourth one."—Philotheus of Pskov

Offline juliogb

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #338 on: September 19, 2018, 01:28:16 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWumXnrgVug

This is an interesting video about ''patriarch'' Filaret. I dont know why, I cant watch it entirely and gets stuck somewhere around 15 minutes and doesnt load anymore.
i know this sounds crazy but this also happens to me (i tried every device i know even one far from my home) and i believe  someone is DDOS it or slow it down because they do not  want the truth out. i have seen the full video ages ago so it definitely used to work!

Yeah, I tried to watch it in other internet browsers, in the cellphone as well, and nothing, still jams at 15'. I wouldn't be surprised if the video received some sort of cyberattack from Filaret related militants.

Offline cossack 316

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #339 on: September 19, 2018, 03:45:33 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWumXnrgVug

This is an interesting video about ''patriarch'' Filaret. I dont know why, I cant watch it entirely and gets stuck somewhere around 15 minutes and doesnt load anymore.
i know this sounds crazy but this also happens to me (i tried every device i know even one far from my home) and i believe  someone is DDOS it or slow it down because they do not  want the truth out. i have seen the full video ages ago so it definitely used to work!

Yeah, I tried to watch it in other internet browsers, in the cellphone as well, and nothing, still jams at 15'. I wouldn't be surprised if the video received some sort of cyberattack from Filaret related militants.

The organization that posted that video, "The Union Of Orthodox Journalists", is in fact neither a union or contain journalists or Orthodox faithful.  Instead, it is an operation of the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) intended to provoke conflicts between the Moscow Patriarchate and the parishes of the Kyiv Patriarchate and then blame them on the latter.

This troll site is pursuing the following five goals:

-Discrediting all by Moscow churches in Ukraine
-Bringing religious problems in Ukraine to the attention of the Universal Patriarchate in the hopes of blocking its recognition of Kyiv as a canonical patriarchate
-Deforming [Ukraine’s] information space
-Creating conditions within the faithful for civic strife
-Intimidating pro-Kyiv churchmen of the Moscow Patriarchate in Ukraine by threatening them in various ways.

This UOJ's goal is to create conditions under which real boss Vladimir Putin can at any moment exacerbate the situation by declaring that he wants to ‘defend canonical orthodoxy,’” and thus provide cover for more Russian aggression against Ukraine.

This UOJ refers to itself on occasion as “a department for ‘the defense of the true believers,’” although it is anything but a religious group with religious goals. Instead, it seeks to provoke scandals, then exacerbate them, and then “with the help of the ombudsmen for the defense of the rights of believers” make political capital out of them both in Ukraine and abroad.
http://windowoneurasia2.blogspot.ca/2016/01/moscow-patriarchate-sets-up-new-staff.html


Offline Iconodule

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #340 on: September 19, 2018, 03:50:45 PM »
I note that you make no attempt to defend Patriarch Filaret.
Quote
When a time revolts against eternity, the only thing to set against it is genuine eternity itself, and not some other time which has already roused, and not without reason, a violent reaction against itself.
- Berdyaev

If you would like a private forum for non-polemical topics, comment here.

Offline cossack 316

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #341 on: September 19, 2018, 04:23:53 PM »
All I have to say is believing Russian sources on Patriarch Filaret or Ukraine would be akin to trusting MSNBC or CNN on Trump or the GOP. Russians hate Filaret and will say anything including numerous lies to discredit him as much as the liberal US media hates anything and everything GOP or Trump related.

And yet Moscow offered to let Filaret back in the church a few years ago...

- Most holy, people are now experiencing a surge of interest in the newest church history and the attempts of our unity. They say that the Russian Orthodox Church offered you, after the end of Blessed Volodymyr, to lead the unification process of the UOC-MP and the UOC-KP under the Omophor of Moscow?

"After the death of Metropolitan Volodymyr, nobody offered me to lead the entire Ukrainian church, but there was a proposal when he was alive, so that I would return to Moscow's jurisdiction, leading the whole Ukrainian church - both Kyiv and Moscow Patriarchate, but under the Moscow Omophor. I said that I never agreed to it. As long as there is a Ukrainian state, it should have an independent church.

https://www.ukrinform.ua/rubric-other_news/1744660-patriarh_filaret_meni_proponuvali_ocholiti_vse_ukraiinske_pravoslavya_pid_omoforom_moskvi_2006680.html

Offline biro

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #342 on: September 19, 2018, 04:50:00 PM »
All I have to say is believing Russian sources on Patriarch Filaret or Ukraine would be akin to trusting MSNBC or CNN on Trump or the GOP. Russians hate Filaret and will say anything including numerous lies to discredit him as much as the liberal US media hates anything and everything GOP or Trump related.

Thanks for playing! Try again.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


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Offline Opus118

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #343 on: September 19, 2018, 05:24:20 PM »
I do not know if I read this here at OCnet or elsewhere, but it seemed to me like the Russian Orthodox Church was receptive to the notion that the laity can depose a Patriarch (or at least the Ecumenical Patriarch). The example given is what supposedly occurred to Patriarch Metrophanes II after the council of Florence. Am I mistaken about this? There are parallels to what is occurring in Ukraine. The 2017 Pew study on Orthodoxy suggests Patriarch Kirill is not popular in Ukraine.
If you cannot remember everything, instead of everything, I beg you, remember this without fail, that not to share our own wealth with the poor is theft from the poor and deprivation of their means of life; we do not possess our own wealth but theirs.  If we have this attitude, we will certainly offer our money; and by nourishing Christ in poverty here and laying up great profit hereafter, we will be able to attain the good things which are to come. - St. John Chrysostom

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #344 on: September 19, 2018, 05:31:45 PM »
That's interesting. Do they take a vote? How would this be registered?
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


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Offline ICXCNIKA

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #345 on: September 19, 2018, 06:00:44 PM »
I do not know if I read this here at OCnet or elsewhere, but it seemed to me like the Russian Orthodox Church was receptive to the notion that the laity can depose a Patriarch (or at least the Ecumenical Patriarch). The example given is what supposedly occurred to Patriarch Metrophanes II after the council of Florence. Am I mistaken about this? There are parallels to what is occurring in Ukraine. The 2017 Pew study on Orthodoxy suggests Patriarch Kirill is not popular in Ukraine.

You seem to be missing a rather important point Metrophanes was a heretic and Patriarch Kyril was appointed by God to be Patriarch over all the Russias which includes Ukraine. When he commits heresy you let me know and we can talk about similarities. Though I think it more Likely That Patriarch Bartholomew will suffer the same fate as his predecessor.

Offline Opus118

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #346 on: September 20, 2018, 12:41:01 AM »
I do not know if I read this here at OCnet or elsewhere, but it seemed to me like the Russian Orthodox Church was receptive to the notion that the laity can depose a Patriarch (or at least the Ecumenical Patriarch). The example given is what supposedly occurred to Patriarch Metrophanes II after the council of Florence. Am I mistaken about this? There are parallels to what is occurring in Ukraine. The 2017 Pew study on Orthodoxy suggests Patriarch Kirill is not popular in Ukraine.

You seem to be missing a rather important point Metrophanes was a heretic and Patriarch Kyril was appointed by God to be Patriarch over all the Russias which includes Ukraine. When he commits heresy you let me know and we can talk about similarities. Though I think it more Likely That Patriarch Bartholomew will suffer the same fate as his predecessor.
You are not answering my question. Is it legit for the laity to depose a Patriarch? We can get into the perceived heresies of Patriarch Kirill later.

If you cannot remember everything, instead of everything, I beg you, remember this without fail, that not to share our own wealth with the poor is theft from the poor and deprivation of their means of life; we do not possess our own wealth but theirs.  If we have this attitude, we will certainly offer our money; and by nourishing Christ in poverty here and laying up great profit hereafter, we will be able to attain the good things which are to come. - St. John Chrysostom

Offline ICXCNIKA

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #347 on: September 20, 2018, 07:43:53 AM »
I do not know if I read this here at OCnet or elsewhere, but it seemed to me like the Russian Orthodox Church was receptive to the notion that the laity can depose a Patriarch (or at least the Ecumenical Patriarch). The example given is what supposedly occurred to Patriarch Metrophanes II after the council of Florence. Am I mistaken about this? There are parallels to what is occurring in Ukraine. The 2017 Pew study on Orthodoxy suggests Patriarch Kirill is not popular in Ukraine.
There are no perceived heresies of Patriarch Kyrill. Why do you think no one other than Patri
You seem to be missing a rather important point Metrophanes was a heretic and Patriarch Kyril was appointed by God to be Patriarch over all the Russias which includes Ukraine. When he commits heresy you let me know and we can talk about similarities. Though I think it more Likely That Patriarch Bartholomew will suffer the same fate as his predecessor.
You are not answering my question. Is it legit for the laity to depose a Patriarch? We can get into the perceived heresies of Patriarch Kirill later.
Your desperation is showing. There are no perceived heresies of Patriarch Kyrill. Why do you think no one other than Patriarch Bartholomew will have anything to do with these schismatics? Are you hoping that the laity will depose Patriarch Bartholomew? While it could happen I imagine they will not get the chance as his brother bishops are more than capable.

Offline juliogb

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #348 on: September 21, 2018, 08:43:45 AM »
I don't have anything against the idea of a ukrainian patriarchate, if done in the lawfull manner, in a diferent geopolitical context. This ukrainian quagmire is part of a bigger NATO/neocon long term strategy.



Please do not get into politics in this thread. There are other threads about the subjects in the Politics Fora.
Dominika, GM
« Last Edit: September 21, 2018, 09:11:31 AM by Dominika »

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #349 on: September 21, 2018, 11:14:31 PM »
All I have to say is believing Russian sources on Patriarch Filaret or Ukraine would be akin to trusting MSNBC or CNN on Trump or the GOP. Russians hate Filaret and will say anything including numerous lies to discredit him as much as the liberal US media hates anything and everything GOP or Trump related.

And yet Moscow offered to let Filaret back in the church a few years ago...

- Most holy, people are now experiencing a surge of interest in the newest church history and the attempts of our unity. They say that the Russian Orthodox Church offered you, after the end of Blessed Volodymyr, to lead the unification process of the UOC-MP and the UOC-KP under the Omophor of Moscow?

"After the death of Metropolitan Volodymyr, nobody offered me to lead the entire Ukrainian church, but there was a proposal when he was alive, so that I would return to Moscow's jurisdiction, leading the whole Ukrainian church - both Kyiv and Moscow Patriarchate, but under the Moscow Omophor. I said that I never agreed to it. As long as there is a Ukrainian state, it should have an independent church.

https://www.ukrinform.ua/rubric-other_news/1744660-patriarh_filaret_meni_proponuvali_ocholiti_vse_ukraiinske_pravoslavya_pid_omoforom_moskvi_2006680.html

So any country that is independent, deserves Autocephalous status? The chaos that will cause.

Offline Opus118

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #350 on: September 22, 2018, 12:55:40 AM »
I do not know if I read this here at OCnet or elsewhere, but it seemed to me like the Russian Orthodox Church was receptive to the notion that the laity can depose a Patriarch (or at least the Ecumenical Patriarch). The example given is what supposedly occurred to Patriarch Metrophanes II after the council of Florence. Am I mistaken about this? There are parallels to what is occurring in Ukraine. The 2017 Pew study on Orthodoxy suggests Patriarch Kirill is not popular in Ukraine.
There are no perceived heresies of Patriarch Kyrill. Why do you think no one other than Patri
You seem to be missing a rather important point Metrophanes was a heretic and Patriarch Kyril was appointed by God to be Patriarch over all the Russias which includes Ukraine. When he commits heresy you let me know and we can talk about similarities. Though I think it more Likely That Patriarch Bartholomew will suffer the same fate as his predecessor.
You are not answering my question. Is it legit for the laity to depose a Patriarch? We can get into the perceived heresies of Patriarch Kirill later.
Your desperation is showing. There are no perceived heresies of Patriarch Kyrill. Why do you think no one other than Patriarch Bartholomew will have anything to do with these schismatics? Are you hoping that the laity will depose Patriarch Bartholomew? While it could happen I imagine they will not get the chance as his brother bishops are more than capable.
Desperation? I think you are living in a fantasy world. In regard to rejecting a Patriarch, I was contemplating this occurring in the UOC-MP, but my real goal was retrieving the details about what I have read in the past.  I tried here to no avail. In regard to the Kievian Patriarchate, I am not knowledgeable enough to have an opinion. In regard to Schismatics, how many Church recognitions does it take for the other Church not to be schismatic? Is there a rule? What other Churches besides Serbia recognized ROCOR? I do not recall any, but I assume there were more.
I am here to learn. Maybe in a year or two, Ialmisry will notice this post and answer if he has any thoughts on this matter. 

If you cannot remember everything, instead of everything, I beg you, remember this without fail, that not to share our own wealth with the poor is theft from the poor and deprivation of their means of life; we do not possess our own wealth but theirs.  If we have this attitude, we will certainly offer our money; and by nourishing Christ in poverty here and laying up great profit hereafter, we will be able to attain the good things which are to come. - St. John Chrysostom

Offline hecma925

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #351 on: September 22, 2018, 02:40:20 AM »
Jerusalem recognized ROCOR.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Offline Opus118

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #352 on: September 22, 2018, 10:08:16 AM »
Thanks!
If you cannot remember everything, instead of everything, I beg you, remember this without fail, that not to share our own wealth with the poor is theft from the poor and deprivation of their means of life; we do not possess our own wealth but theirs.  If we have this attitude, we will certainly offer our money; and by nourishing Christ in poverty here and laying up great profit hereafter, we will be able to attain the good things which are to come. - St. John Chrysostom

Offline Antonis

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #353 on: September 22, 2018, 11:25:26 AM »
« Last Edit: September 22, 2018, 11:25:39 AM by Antonis »
"Verily they that seek Thee, Lord, and keep the canons of Thy Holy Church shall never want any good thing.”
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Offline Ray1

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #355 on: September 22, 2018, 09:40:52 PM »
Can someone help me understand what is going on here, please? I read about it in the news and it seems like it is all about nationality and ethnicity, correct? or am I missing something?

Offline Opus118

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #356 on: September 23, 2018, 01:56:01 AM »
Can someone help me understand what is going on here, please? I read about it in the news and it seems like it is all about nationality and ethnicity, correct? or am I missing something?
It is more complicated that that at and it includes issues that have not been explicitly brought up. Prestige and loss also have a big role, for example. What ever will happen, will happen. In the traditional Orthodox manner, it will be healed with time.
If you cannot remember everything, instead of everything, I beg you, remember this without fail, that not to share our own wealth with the poor is theft from the poor and deprivation of their means of life; we do not possess our own wealth but theirs.  If we have this attitude, we will certainly offer our money; and by nourishing Christ in poverty here and laying up great profit hereafter, we will be able to attain the good things which are to come. - St. John Chrysostom

Offline Iconodule

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #357 on: September 24, 2018, 09:50:32 AM »
Can someone help me understand what is going on here, please? I read about it in the news and it seems like it is all about nationality and ethnicity, correct? or am I missing something?

There are two overlapping conflicts here- the ecclesial conflict and the nationalist conflict. The first can be expressed in two questions: 1. Does the Ecumenical Patriarchate have jurisdiction over Kiev and Ukraine? 2. What is the extent or limit of the Ecumenical Patriarchate's primacy in the worldwide church? Both complicated questions and arguments about them will not cease.

The nationalist arguments are theoretically secondary to these ecclesial questions but of course are very much foremost for many of those involved.

As for ethnicity... that depends on who you ask.
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Offline Samn!

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #358 on: September 25, 2018, 06:29:23 AM »
The scholarly blog Bekkos has published an originally-penned troparion on this whole debacle, in pretty erudite Greek:

Quote
Ὁ φιλοπρωτεύων Βαρθολομαῖος εἰς τὴν Οὐκραϊνὴν δύο ἐξάρχους ἔστειλεν,
ὁ καὶ νέος Διοτρεφὴς αἰτία νέου σχίσματος ἐγένετο.
Νῦν κλαίουσι πάντες ἰδόντες τὴν Ὀρθοδοξίαν σπαραττομένην ὑπὸ τοῦ κοσμικοῦ κράτους,
νῦν στενάζουσιν, διότι τὸν μέγαν καὶ φιλόχριστον λαὸν τῆς Ῥωσσίας ἠτίμασεν.
Ὦ φιλάνθρωπε Χριστέ, δώρησαι τῷ κόσμῳ τὸ μέγα σου ἔλεος.

Bartholomew, who likes to put himself first, has sent two exarchs to Ukraine,
and the new Diotrephes has become the cause of a new schism.
Now all weep when they see Orthodoxy torn apart by the worldly power;
now they groan, because he has dishonored the great and Christloving people of Russia.
O Christ, lover of mankind, grant the world your great mercy.


The original post also links to an audio recording of it: https://bekkos.wordpress.com/2018/09/17/%e1%bd%81-%cf%86%ce%b9%ce%bb%ce%bf%cf%80%cf%81%cf%89%cf%84%ce%b5%cf%8d%cf%89%ce%bd/

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Patriarch Kirill in Constantinople to discuss Ukraine
« Reply #359 on: September 25, 2018, 07:25:27 AM »
The scholarly blog Bekkos has published an originally-penned troparion on this whole debacle, in pretty erudite Greek:

Quote
Ὁ φιλοπρωτεύων Βαρθολομαῖος εἰς τὴν Οὐκραϊνὴν δύο ἐξάρχους ἔστειλεν,
ὁ καὶ νέος Διοτρεφὴς αἰτία νέου σχίσματος ἐγένετο.
Νῦν κλαίουσι πάντες ἰδόντες τὴν Ὀρθοδοξίαν σπαραττομένην ὑπὸ τοῦ κοσμικοῦ κράτους,
νῦν στενάζουσιν, διότι τὸν μέγαν καὶ φιλόχριστον λαὸν τῆς Ῥωσσίας ἠτίμασεν.
Ὦ φιλάνθρωπε Χριστέ, δώρησαι τῷ κόσμῳ τὸ μέγα σου ἔλεος.

Bartholomew, who likes to put himself first, has sent two exarchs to Ukraine,
and the new Diotrephes has become the cause of a new schism.
Now all weep when they see Orthodoxy torn apart by the worldly power;
now they groan, because he has dishonored the great and Christloving people of Russia.
O Christ, lover of mankind, grant the world your great mercy.


The original post also links to an audio recording of it: https://bekkos.wordpress.com/2018/09/17/%e1%bd%81-%cf%86%ce%b9%ce%bb%ce%bf%cf%80%cf%81%cf%89%cf%84%ce%b5%cf%8d%cf%89%ce%bd/

Antonis, you need to up your game...