Author Topic: Musings on the character of Hank Hanegraaff  (Read 1157 times)

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Offline biro

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Re: Musings on the character of Hank Hanegraaff
« Reply #45 on: August 12, 2018, 08:23:00 PM »
"Ah, so if there is say a pedophile or a thief in the church, while we might have valid concerns, they might be "cancelled out" by what exactly? Fraud, deception, abuse, naw, they can be cancelled out! Uh, I don't think so."

What are you talking about?

Why did you wait so many years between your two groups of posts?

That's it, I'm done. Putting you on Ignore.
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Offline Acolyte4236

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Re: Musings on the character of Hank Hanegraaff
« Reply #46 on: August 12, 2018, 08:44:02 PM »
"Ah, so if there is say a pedophile or a thief in the church, while we might have valid concerns, they might be "cancelled out" by what exactly? Fraud, deception, abuse, naw, they can be cancelled out! Uh, I don't think so."

What are you talking about?

Why did you wait so many years between your two groups of posts?

That's it, I'm done. Putting you on Ignore.

I did not wait. Before me, people were fired for whistle blowing. I was then fired for the same. That was in 1992. The internet was in its infancy then.

Second, various groups of employees have had material on the internet for 25 years. Added to this there have been published accounts in the LA Times and Christianity Today, among other venues of the various scandals.

After 1995, the last attempt of about thirty of us failed, so I went on with my life. After Hank was received and attempts to dialog and reconcile were ignored or rejected, I then published on line as my only means to point out these problems. I've been pretty steady for a year chronicling the whole mess.

So no, I did not wait.

Offline Acolyte4236

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Re: Musings in the character of Hank Hannegraaf
« Reply #47 on: August 12, 2018, 08:45:29 PM »

What is more, if Hank is dying of cancer, now would be the time to reconcile with the many people he has harmed. We have tried so many times to do what is biblical and to try and reconcile but Hank consistently refuses. And this includes him showing up at my parish last October ( https://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2017/11/02/matt-18-my-meeting-with-hank-hanegraaff/)
We offered to fly out at our own expense to meet with him to reconcile. This included myself, Jill Martin and Craig Hawkins, Martin’s right hand. He refused. So he is impenitent. We tried to arrange reconciliation both before and after his reception. And dozens of people have confronted him both individually and collectively over nearly thirty years. He refuses every times and just accuses us of slander. So by all appearances, Hank is unwilling to abide by very clear Scripture and Tradition and he is unconcerned about dying without reconciling with his brothers and sisters.
Hopefully, you are praying for Hank Hanegraaff.

Quote
To be honest, I am not a little tired of people treating me and the other former employees as the bad guy and giving Hank an unquestioning pass simply because he got chrismated. I’ve been in the church nearly twenty years. I have worked festivals, festival tours, done radio interviews for the church, taught Sunday school, opened my home to numerous church functions. I have given of my own time and treasure and have been happy to do so. I have had a good report for nearly twenty years. But apparently my word is garbage because I am not nice or polite.

I would suggest taking a moment to think about whether and how much truth matters in comparison to feeling good. People just want to feel good about their side. It is a form of pride. And I am the bad guy for sounding the alarm.

Beyond a certain benevolence for all people, I don’t care about Hank Hanegraaff. I don’t have time and sufficient to my life are the problems thereof. You’re here, he’s not, so I can spare more caring for you and I’m not sure that your endeavor is healthy for you.

PRaying for Hank and everything else has already been discussed elsewhere in the links provided.

Offline Acolyte4236

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Re: Musings on the character of Hank Hanegraaff
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2018, 08:46:41 PM »
"Ah, so if there is say a pedophile or a thief in the church, while we might have valid concerns, they might be "cancelled out" by what exactly? Fraud, deception, abuse, naw, they can be cancelled out! Uh, I don't think so."

What are you talking about?

Why did you wait so many years between your two groups of posts?

That's it, I'm done. Putting you on Ignore.

BTW, the first line you quote is not in response to what you wrote. it is in response to Ainnir

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Musings on the character of Hank Hanegraaff
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2018, 08:58:44 PM »
I've seen your videos. You look bitter.

“Do not judge according to appearances, but judge with right judgment.”  John 7.24

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Musings on the character of Hank Hanegraaff
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2018, 10:49:19 PM »
Truly this thread has been

Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Ainnir

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Re: Musings on the character of Hank Hanegraaff
« Reply #51 on: August 13, 2018, 01:36:35 AM »
Ah, so if there is say a pedophile or a thief in the church, while we might have valid concerns, they might be "cancelled out" by what exactly? Fraud, deception, abuse, naw, they can be cancelled out! Uh, I don't think so.

I am not asking anyone here to do much of anything. I was tagged so I came to explain myself and the situation.

As far as personal disgust, I'd refrain from imputing feelings to me that you can't possibly know. That said, Hank is not my BFF to be sure. I do think Hank is a dangerous con man.

I am or rather was concerned for the welfare of the church. If or rather when there is a scandal that will harm the church, it will harm the faith of many others. He's got a number of former employees he's turned to atheism for example. Last I checked Jesus has something to say about such things regarding millstones and necks.

That said, think what you like. I don't care anymore. Why should I when the clergy don't care for scripture and tradition? I just think it is absolutely stupid to have someone promote Protestantism in our church using our media platforms. What could possibly be dumber? And if that is acceptable, why did I bother becoming Orthodox at all?

I was morally required to follow biblical protocols and I did. I was required to make people aware and warn them, and I did. If people want to think Hank is some great theologian or authority it is because they lack discernment and are easily dupped. Apparently I am the only person who could use Google and the Waybackmachine.

As far as paring everything down, this entire mess has been going on for thirty years. There is a lot to it and there are many figures involved. I did my best to catalog everything and lay it all out. But think what you like.

Again, I am not the one living in a 3 million dollar mansion living like Benny Hinn. 
Look, you are mocking and misrepresenting the point of someone who amounts to a passerby--maybe it's not disgust you have, but it's something, and here it is so incredibly misdirected.  Realize that if you were blowing whistles, you have two distinct audiences.  One is very small, but has the authority to do something.  The other is big and largely powerless.  Address them accordingly.  I didn't say I disbelieved you, nor did I defend Mr. Hanegraaff; I suggested modulation when delivering your message.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline biro

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Re: Musings on the character of Hank Hanegraaff
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2018, 01:43:31 AM »
Also, this thread is not about Benny Hinn.
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Musings on the character of Hank Hanegraaff
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2018, 01:53:51 AM »
"Ah, so if there is say a pedophile or a thief in the church, while we might have valid concerns, they might be "cancelled out" by what exactly? Fraud, deception, abuse, naw, they can be cancelled out! Uh, I don't think so."

What are you talking about?

Why did you wait so many years between your two groups of posts?

That's it, I'm done. Putting you on Ignore.

I did not wait. Before me, people were fired for whistle blowing. I was then fired for the same. That was in 1992. The internet was in its infancy then.

Second, various groups of employees have had material on the internet for 25 years. Added to this there have been published accounts in the LA Times and Christianity Today, among other venues of the various scandals.

After 1995, the last attempt of about thirty of us failed, so I went on with my life. After Hank was received and attempts to dialog and reconcile were ignored or rejected, I then published on line as my only means to point out these problems. I've been pretty steady for a year chronicling the whole mess.

So no, I did not wait.

To be frank I think you should move on, because regardless of his faults, Mr. Haanegraaf is introducing Orthodoxy to a large audience, and your polemics against him, without wishing to offend, do inadvertantly I think give the impression that you are merely a disgruntled former employee with a certain Obida (Russian word meaning attitude of offense and resentment) towards Mr. Haanegraaf.  If your claims are accurate, they aren’t helping the cause really.  Your blog just looks like its become fixated on “Hankodoxy” to the exclusion of other important subjects.
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Offline RobS

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Re: Musings on the character of Hank Hanegraaff
« Reply #54 on: August 13, 2018, 03:06:13 AM »
So you've been harboring a grudge for over 25 years towards a former (removed - Mor) employer? You're obsessed with this guy. Like I get being disgruntled over being poorly treated for a little bit but this is a bit much.

I agree with Ainnir.

Edited to remove profanity.  Mor Ephrem, section moderator.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 05:44:37 PM by Mor Ephrem »
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Offline RobS

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Re: Musings in the character of Hank Hannegraaf
« Reply #55 on: August 13, 2018, 03:14:46 AM »
He used to host a show on the Bible. He became aware of how misled some of the fundamentalist teachings are. In that sense, he does have some experience.

He hosted a show where he reads from a teleprompter.

2nd on that basis he has no more expertise than many other Protestants.

3rd many Protestant pastors who have undergraduate degrees and seminary degrees and actual pastoral experience give up their positions and become laymen. They don't get made instant national teachers just because they held a position.

4. he is a new convert and on that basis alone shouldn't be teaching nationally over our media platforms.


What is more, he was most likely going to join Witness Lee's Local Church sect in 2015. See here ->https://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2018/04/04/the-authentic-hankadox-life/
Then something happened. He has a book set to come out in 2015 that looks like it was a Local Church manifesto. About that time according to his own account he started looking into Orthodoxy. So the matter is more complex. It was the Local Church's doctrine of "blending" with the divine essence that got him to look at theosis.

What is more, he is adapting that book as his Orthodox conversion book to publish soon. Given his poor theological judgement who knows what will be in that book.

Lastly, people should be aware of converts like Fr. John Braun and Fr. Jack Sparks, both of whom (among others) saw the Local Church and Witness Lee as not only heretical (Sabellian among other heresies) but very dangerous and deceptive. Their judgement has not changed. It was the Local Church that Hank refers to as "Chinese Christians" in his conversion account. Given that Paul Young who is the chief operating officer of CRI is a member of the Local Church and that Hank defended the Local Church in 2011 all the way to the Supreme Court when the Local Church sued a Christian publisher it should be very clear that the matter is far more complicated and there is a lot more at stake.

All this deserves is a big "so what?" reply.
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Modernist thinking and being consists of nothing but uncritical acceptance.

Offline RobS

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Re: Musings in the character of Hank Hannegraaf
« Reply #56 on: August 13, 2018, 03:21:24 AM »
Acolyte (Perry Robinson) worked on the show with him for years. Hank had a computer that fed him lines from his research assistants, dressed up to make it look like he was getting it off the top of his head to people who can't see him over the radio.

What's the problem? What radio show doesn't have this? Howard Stern had people feeding him lines.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Musings in the character of Hank Hannegraaf
« Reply #57 on: August 13, 2018, 04:07:49 AM »
Acolyte (Perry Robinson) worked on the show with him for years. Hank had a computer that fed him lines from his research assistants, dressed up to make it look like he was getting it off the top of his head to people who can't see him over the radio.

What's the problem? What radio show doesn't have this? Howard Stern had people feeding him lines.

The difference being that Howard Stern wasn't presenting himself as some kind of expert in anything who's out to teach the faithful how to defend their faith. Howard Stern also never plagiarized from books over the air like Hank did.

He used to host a show on the Bible. He became aware of how misled some of the fundamentalist teachings are. In that sense, he does have some experience.

He hosted a show where he reads from a teleprompter.

2nd on that basis he has no more expertise than many other Protestants.

3rd many Protestant pastors who have undergraduate degrees and seminary degrees and actual pastoral experience give up their positions and become laymen. They don't get made instant national teachers just because they held a position.

4. he is a new convert and on that basis alone shouldn't be teaching nationally over our media platforms.


What is more, he was most likely going to join Witness Lee's Local Church sect in 2015. See here ->https://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2018/04/04/the-authentic-hankadox-life/
Then something happened. He has a book set to come out in 2015 that looks like it was a Local Church manifesto. About that time according to his own account he started looking into Orthodoxy. So the matter is more complex. It was the Local Church's doctrine of "blending" with the divine essence that got him to look at theosis.

What is more, he is adapting that book as his Orthodox conversion book to publish soon. Given his poor theological judgement who knows what will be in that book.

Lastly, people should be aware of converts like Fr. John Braun and Fr. Jack Sparks, both of whom (among others) saw the Local Church and Witness Lee as not only heretical (Sabellian among other heresies) but very dangerous and deceptive. Their judgement has not changed. It was the Local Church that Hank refers to as "Chinese Christians" in his conversion account. Given that Paul Young who is the chief operating officer of CRI is a member of the Local Church and that Hank defended the Local Church in 2011 all the way to the Supreme Court when the Local Church sued a Christian publisher it should be very clear that the matter is far more complicated and there is a lot more at stake.

All this deserves is a big "so what?" reply.


You don't think this is, at best, shady and shoddy behavior that reflects poorly on the attentiveness of the Greek bishops if they know about it?
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Musings on the character of Hank Hanegraaff
« Reply #58 on: August 13, 2018, 04:16:33 AM »
"Ah, so if there is say a pedophile or a thief in the church, while we might have valid concerns, they might be "cancelled out" by what exactly? Fraud, deception, abuse, naw, they can be cancelled out! Uh, I don't think so."

What are you talking about?

Why did you wait so many years between your two groups of posts?

That's it, I'm done. Putting you on Ignore.

I did not wait. Before me, people were fired for whistle blowing. I was then fired for the same. That was in 1992. The internet was in its infancy then.

Second, various groups of employees have had material on the internet for 25 years. Added to this there have been published accounts in the LA Times and Christianity Today, among other venues of the various scandals.

After 1995, the last attempt of about thirty of us failed, so I went on with my life. After Hank was received and attempts to dialog and reconcile were ignored or rejected, I then published on line as my only means to point out these problems. I've been pretty steady for a year chronicling the whole mess.

So no, I did not wait.

To be frank I think you should move on, because regardless of his faults, Mr. Haanegraaf is introducing Orthodoxy to a large audience, and your polemics against him, without wishing to offend, do inadvertantly I think give the impression that you are merely a disgruntled former employee with a certain Obida (Russian word meaning attitude of offense and resentment) towards Mr. Haanegraaf.  If your claims are accurate, they aren’t helping the cause really.  Your blog just looks like its become fixated on “Hankodoxy” to the exclusion of other important subjects.

If you haven't noticed, the post of August 2 is the avowedly last post on Hank that Perry plans to do.

The only reason he's talking about the man at all these days is because pop Orthodox figures like Frederica have been parading him around like he's the new hotness. Hank is a toxic individual, that's a truth that needs to be told. Yes, he didn't deserve Pulpit and Pen's attack on him, but that doesn't make him any less potentially damaging to Orthodoxy.

And really, who the heck cares if Perry is a tad bitter. I'd say that he has the right to be to an extent. All this patronizing tone police nonsense is detracting from the real issues.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Musings on the character of Hank Hanegraaff
« Reply #59 on: August 13, 2018, 04:19:24 AM »
Also, this thread is not about Benny Hinn.

Actually, it kind of is. This is much the same hero worship crap that allows users and abusers like Hinn to gain much of the wealth and influence that they enjoy in the first place. I guess American Orthodoxy is finally eating at the big kids's table, in that sense...
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 04:19:37 AM by Volnutt »
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Musings in the character of Hank Hannegraaf
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2018, 06:52:51 AM »
He used to host a show on the Bible. He became aware of how misled some of the fundamentalist teachings are. In that sense, he does have some experience.

He hosted a show where he reads from a teleprompter.

2nd on that basis he has no more expertise than many other Protestants.

3rd many Protestant pastors who have undergraduate degrees and seminary degrees and actual pastoral experience give up their positions and become laymen. They don't get made instant national teachers just because they held a position.

4. he is a new convert and on that basis alone shouldn't be teaching nationally over our media platforms.


What is more, he was most likely going to join Witness Lee's Local Church sect in 2015. See here ->https://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2018/04/04/the-authentic-hankadox-life/
Then something happened. He has a book set to come out in 2015 that looks like it was a Local Church manifesto. About that time according to his own account he started looking into Orthodoxy. So the matter is more complex. It was the Local Church's doctrine of "blending" with the divine essence that got him to look at theosis.

What is more, he is adapting that book as his Orthodox conversion book to publish soon. Given his poor theological judgement who knows what will be in that book.

Lastly, people should be aware of converts like Fr. John Braun and Fr. Jack Sparks, both of whom (among others) saw the Local Church and Witness Lee as not only heretical (Sabellian among other heresies) but very dangerous and deceptive. Their judgement has not changed. It was the Local Church that Hank refers to as "Chinese Christians" in his conversion account. Given that Paul Young who is the chief operating officer of CRI is a member of the Local Church and that Hank defended the Local Church in 2011 all the way to the Supreme Court when the Local Church sued a Christian publisher it should be very clear that the matter is far more complicated and there is a lot more at stake.

All this deserves is a big "so what?" reply.

+1

The man has cancer.  He will probably repose soon; we should be thankful for himself and his family that he will die in the peace of the Church.  He is not a threat to the stability or integrity of the Orthodox faith.  Any theological errors he might make will certainly be corrected by more powerful voices in the community.

I love Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, but his recent remark on the issue of homosexuality was much more problematic than anything I’ve heard Mr. Haanegraaf say post-conversion.  Furthermore, if you want to consider something “toxic” under the omophorion of the Ecumenical Patriarch, you need look no further than the crypto-Papalist Phanariotism of the now-titular Metropolitan of Bursa, who is a very likely candidate to replace His All Holiness Bartholomew when the later reposes (I myself would support His Grace Bishop Gregory of Nyssa, the ruler of ACROD).  Furthermore within the broader sphere of Greek Orthodoxy, the Haanegraaf isssue is utterly immaterial compared to the Jerusalem-Antioch schism, the disaffection of the Arabic speaking Orthodox and the lack of Arabic speaking clergy in the Jerusalem Patriarchate, and the anti-Semitism and racist anti-OO remarks of Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus (which Iconodule reminded me of).  There is also the very unpleasant fact that GoArch is very nearly bankrupt.
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Offline juliogb

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Re: Musings in the character of Hank Hannegraaf
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2018, 08:09:04 AM »
He used to host a show on the Bible. He became aware of how misled some of the fundamentalist teachings are. In that sense, he does have some experience.

He hosted a show where he reads from a teleprompter.

2nd on that basis he has no more expertise than many other Protestants.

3rd many Protestant pastors who have undergraduate degrees and seminary degrees and actual pastoral experience give up their positions and become laymen. They don't get made instant national teachers just because they held a position.

4. he is a new convert and on that basis alone shouldn't be teaching nationally over our media platforms.


What is more, he was most likely going to join Witness Lee's Local Church sect in 2015. See here ->https://energeticprocession.wordpress.com/2018/04/04/the-authentic-hankadox-life/
Then something happened. He has a book set to come out in 2015 that looks like it was a Local Church manifesto. About that time according to his own account he started looking into Orthodoxy. So the matter is more complex. It was the Local Church's doctrine of "blending" with the divine essence that got him to look at theosis.

What is more, he is adapting that book as his Orthodox conversion book to publish soon. Given his poor theological judgement who knows what will be in that book.

Lastly, people should be aware of converts like Fr. John Braun and Fr. Jack Sparks, both of whom (among others) saw the Local Church and Witness Lee as not only heretical (Sabellian among other heresies) but very dangerous and deceptive. Their judgement has not changed. It was the Local Church that Hank refers to as "Chinese Christians" in his conversion account. Given that Paul Young who is the chief operating officer of CRI is a member of the Local Church and that Hank defended the Local Church in 2011 all the way to the Supreme Court when the Local Church sued a Christian publisher it should be very clear that the matter is far more complicated and there is a lot more at stake.

All this deserves is a big "so what?" reply.

+1

The man has cancer.  He will probably repose soon; we should be thankful for himself and his family that he will die in the peace of the Church.  He is not a threat to the stability or integrity of the Orthodox faith.  Any theological errors he might make will certainly be corrected by more powerful voices in the community.

I love Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, but his recent remark on the issue of homosexuality was much more problematic than anything I’ve heard Mr. Haanegraaf say post-conversion.  Furthermore, if you want to consider something “toxic” under the omophorion of the Ecumenical Patriarch, you need look no further than the crypto-Papalist Phanariotism of the now-titular Metropolitan of Bursa, who is a very likely candidate to replace His All Holiness Bartholomew when the later reposes (I myself would support His Grace Bishop Gregory of Nyssa, the ruler of ACROD).  Furthermore within the broader sphere of Greek Orthodoxy, the Haanegraaf isssue is utterly immaterial compared to the Jerusalem-Antioch schism, the disaffection of the Arabic speaking Orthodox and the lack of Arabic speaking clergy in the Jerusalem Patriarchate, and the anti-Semitism and racist anti-OO remarks of Metropolitan Seraphim of Piraeus (which Iconodule reminded me of).  There is also the very unpleasant fact that GoArch is very nearly bankrupt.


Well, the phanariote issues, the arab-greek conflict in the JP and the other problems mentioned, are quite far away for american orthodox people, the only thing to do is to pray basically.

However, the hank issue is something that can be adressed by orthodox people in the US, overlooking this matter because there are bigger problems doesn't help. Big problems were small problems once, that weren't adressed at time, or weren't adressed at all, and became bigger and bigger. Hank is a recent convert, and we only know that because the photo of his chrismation was leaked, a public figure like him should anounce this sort of stuff, looks like he wanted to conceal it and continue with his protestant radio show, making protestant apologetics...without losing sponsors and listeners. Now he continues with his show, with the same protestant crew, making weak apologetics for orthodoxy (and the local church apparently), instead of doing what a recent convert should do, listen and learn, not engage in apologetics in public venues.

Regarding Perry, sorry for mentioning you, but everytime I see someone citing Hank in a positive way, I feel that I must make people aware of the issues around him, I wouldn't do it if he repented, but it is not the case. Btw, I like reading Energetic Procession.

Offline Ainnir

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Re: Musings on the character of Hank Hanegraaff
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2018, 02:51:27 PM »
None of my part in this conversation was meant to cast aspersion on Perry (so I gather your name is, Acolyte).  That's not my intention here at all, and I don't want my words to encourage others to do so.  I come from a place of concern and not summary dismissal.  However I also choose not to automatically react every time someone has a complaint against someone else even if the complaint is both sizable and legitimate.  And especially when the complaint is against someone I didn't know existed until he was chrismated and someone posted here about it.  This thread is now more than I ever wanted to know about him.

If the issues you want to discuss or have discussed are bigger than ineptitude and egoism such that legalities are involved, this seriously isn't the platform on which to address that.  No, I haven't read the blog, so no, I don't know.  I'm not sure what you'd expect the average unsuspecting person to do with all that information.  But in order to effectively address such wrongs: chronicled all that needs chronicling, exhaust every proper channel of recourse there is, then rest and try to know God will sort out whatever we don't choose to sort ourselves.  My family at one point also experienced job loss connected to wacky evangelical business practices; I'm not unfamiliar.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no clue, so there's that.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Musings on the character of Hank Hanegraaff
« Reply #63 on: August 13, 2018, 05:46:46 PM »
So you've been harboring a grudge for over 25 years towards a former (removed - Mor) employer? You're obsessed with this guy. Like I get being disgruntled over being poorly treated for a little bit but this is a bit much.

I agree with Ainnir.

Edited to remove profanity.  Mor Ephrem, section moderator.

RobS,

Be careful next time, or I won’t be careful with your warning.

Mor Ephrem, section moderator.