Author Topic: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks  (Read 832 times)

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Offline Iconodule

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New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« on: August 07, 2018, 09:28:04 AM »
http://www.egypttoday.com/Article/1/55306/Pope-Tawadros-II-issues-new-monasticism-laws

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Egyptian bishops deactivated their social media accounts after Pope Tawadros II had issued a set of rules regulating monasticism on Thursday. Although the decision only addresses monks, the bishops’ initiative aims at setting an example of obedience to younger generations at convents.

 The Pope himself deactivated his accounts. The rules consist of:
1.Halting all applications for monasticism in Orthodox convents in Egypt for a year starting August 2018.
2.Monasticism and priesthood will be withdrawn from any individuals who had established convents without acquiring consent from the patriarchy. Founding new convents will not be authorized but reviving old ones under the supervision of operating convents is allowed.
3.The number of monks in each convents would be determined according to its capabilities and circumstances in order to improve the quality of monastic work.
4.Halting monastic ordination of priests for three years.
5.Regular Christians are not allowed in any monastic ordinances in preservation of monastic traditions and solemnity.
6.Convents would receive visits and trips throughout the year. However, visit days will be restricted to Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays during fasting. All churches must be cautious of visiting unauthorized places.
7.Observing monks’ commitment to eternal life and avoidance of any deviations.
8.Monasticism is deprived from monks in case of:

◦Media appearances by any means and for any reasons.
◦Getting involved in any financial deals or projects not assigned by the covenant.

9.Leaving the covenant for no reason and going on visits without prior permission from the covenant’s head.
10.Monks are not allowed to attend wreaths or funerals unless permitted by the covenant’s head with only two monks maximum allowed.
11.Monks must deactivate their social media accounts within a month and abstain from inappropriate acts or risk facing measures taken by the church.
12.All Christians should abstain from doing any financial deals or projects with monks. They must only provide donations - regardless of their type - to the head and associates of the covenant.
13.Putting into effect the monasticism and covenant life management issued by the Holy Synod in 2013.

The rules were issued four days after the murder of Head of St. Macarius Monastery in Wadi El-Natrun, Bishop Epiphanius. However, the Spokesperson of the Orthodox Church Priest Boules Halim denied in statements to Associated Press on Friday any relation between the decisions and the bishop’s death saying that the goal is embedding discipline in monastic life.
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2018, 01:01:32 PM »
Is this going to affect visits to St. Anthony’s Monastery in Barstow, or vocations there, or is this limited to the monasteries in Egypt?
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Offline Remnkemi

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2018, 02:16:08 PM »
This is for every Coptic monastery. Monastic rules are not supposed to show partiality based on geography.

Offline Remnkemi

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2018, 02:22:19 PM »
10.Monks are not allowed to attend wreaths or funerals unless permitted by the covenant’s head with only two monks maximum allowed.

This is why no one should trust English translations from Egypt. "Wreaths" is a poor translation of "ekleel" or crown. In the Coptic Church, there is no such thing as a wedding. It is called the "Crowning" sacrament. The decree forbids monks from attending weddings or funerals without permission and it also reduces the frequency of attendance with permission.

Offline hecma925

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2018, 09:28:15 PM »
http://theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/news/the-twelve-decrees-issued-by-the-monastic-committee-monasteries-affairs-of-the-coptic-orthodox-church/

Probably a better translation.

Although I don't understand:

Secular individuals are banned from moastic ordination.


Was this a widespread problem?
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2018, 09:44:11 PM »
Maybe it was some sort of oblate or friar thing.
Quote
When a time revolts against eternity, the only thing to set against it is genuine eternity itself, and not some other time which has already roused, and not without reason, a violent reaction against itself.
- Berdyaev

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Offline Alpha60

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2018, 08:27:09 AM »
This is for every Coptic monastery. Monastic rules are not supposed to show partiality based on geography.

So what impacts will this likely have on the St. Anthony’s community?  I noticed the ban on new ordinations was specific to Egypt.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline WPM

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2018, 09:00:52 AM »
Depends if you really are Coptic Orthodox
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Offline Remnkemi

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2018, 10:09:33 AM »
http://theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/news/the-twelve-decrees-issued-by-the-monastic-committee-monasteries-affairs-of-the-coptic-orthodox-church/

Probably a better translation.

Although I don't understand:

Secular individuals are banned from moastic ordination.


Was this a widespread problem?
Probably not a widespread problem. It's more of an attempt to return to the older tradition of separating the monastic community from the secular community. In recent times, brothers who were going to be ordained monks invited their families and friends to attend the ordination. Since in the monk ordination, the monk will die to the world and a funeral service will be held, it is counterproductive to invite family and friends. The decree wants to reestablish the importance of separating monasticism from secularism.

Offline Remnkemi

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2018, 10:10:54 AM »
This is for every Coptic monastery. Monastic rules are not supposed to show partiality based on geography.

So what impacts will this likely have on the St. Anthony’s community?  I noticed the ban on new ordinations was specific to Egypt.
Where do you see the ban on new ordinations was limited to Egypt? The decrees apply to all monasteries globally.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2018, 10:14:26 AM »
The social media ban seems like a no-brainer to me and should be taken it up by all Orthodox bishops. Monks who spend hours a day on facebook or online fora reflect poorly on the vocation.
Quote
When a time revolts against eternity, the only thing to set against it is genuine eternity itself, and not some other time which has already roused, and not without reason, a violent reaction against itself.
- Berdyaev

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Offline WPM

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2018, 11:17:07 AM »
Forget that I'd rather pursue social goals and do what I want
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Offline hecma925

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2018, 06:53:07 PM »
http://theorthodoxchurch.info/blog/news/the-twelve-decrees-issued-by-the-monastic-committee-monasteries-affairs-of-the-coptic-orthodox-church/

Probably a better translation.

Although I don't understand:

Secular individuals are banned from moastic ordination.


Was this a widespread problem?
Probably not a widespread problem. It's more of an attempt to return to the older tradition of separating the monastic community from the secular community. In recent times, brothers who were going to be ordained monks invited their families and friends to attend the ordination. Since in the monk ordination, the monk will die to the world and a funeral service will be held, it is counterproductive to invite family and friends. The decree wants to reestablish the importance of separating monasticism from secularism.

Ah, that makes more sense.  I understood it as secular individuals seeking monasticism.
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2018, 06:17:56 PM »
The social media ban seems like a no-brainer to me and should be taken it up by all Orthodox bishops. Monks who spend hours a day on facebook or online fora reflect poorly on the vocation.

Abbot Tryphon’s blog would seem to invalidate this argument.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Iconodule

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2018, 06:33:14 PM »
Actually his blog is something I had in mind when I said that.
Quote
When a time revolts against eternity, the only thing to set against it is genuine eternity itself, and not some other time which has already roused, and not without reason, a violent reaction against itself.
- Berdyaev

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Offline Alpha60

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2018, 06:41:06 PM »
Actually his blog is something I had in mind when I said that.

Why???  Its not like he gets into flamewars or abuses people.  I have a great desire to visit Vashon Island.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2018, 08:23:53 PM »
Actually his blog is something I had in mind when I said that.

Why???  Its not like he gets into flamewars or abuses people.  I have a great desire to visit Vashon Island.

You should do it.  The Abbot would sort you and your nonsense right out.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2018, 09:06:05 PM »
Actually his blog is something I had in mind when I said that.

Why???  Its not like he gets into flamewars or abuses people.  I have a great desire to visit Vashon Island.

It's true, his blog is supremely inoffensive.
Quote
When a time revolts against eternity, the only thing to set against it is genuine eternity itself, and not some other time which has already roused, and not without reason, a violent reaction against itself.
- Berdyaev

If you would like a private forum for non-polemical topics, comment here.

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2018, 05:01:29 PM »
The social media ban seems like a no-brainer to me and should be taken it up by all Orthodox bishops. Monks who spend hours a day on facebook or online fora reflect poorly on the vocation.

So do you not think there's a place for a "monasticism in the world" as envisioned by people like St. Maria of Paris?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 05:02:13 PM by Asteriktos »

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2018, 10:48:23 PM »
She didn't live to see the Interwebs.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2018, 09:08:44 AM »
The social media ban seems like a no-brainer to me and should be taken it up by all Orthodox bishops. Monks who spend hours a day on facebook or online fora reflect poorly on the vocation.

So do you not think there's a place for a "monasticism in the world" as envisioned by people like St. Maria of Paris?

Good question. I think what St Maria was proposing is akin to the ancient ihidaya as exemplified by St Ephrem of Syria, who was a celibate ascetic but dwelling in "the world" and engaged in all kinds of communal activity. In other words I think what St. Maria proposed was completely legitimate but it's different from the enclosed monasticism we normally have, and that's what I had in mind.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 09:10:27 AM by Iconodule »
Quote
When a time revolts against eternity, the only thing to set against it is genuine eternity itself, and not some other time which has already roused, and not without reason, a violent reaction against itself.
- Berdyaev

If you would like a private forum for non-polemical topics, comment here.

Online Antonis

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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2018, 12:39:05 PM »
The social media ban seems like a no-brainer to me and should be taken it up by all Orthodox bishops. Monks who spend hours a day on facebook or online fora reflect poorly on the vocation.

So do you not think there's a place for a "monasticism in the world" as envisioned by people like St. Maria of Paris?
It would seem just as necessary in this case as part of maintaining monastic discipline and so such a vocation could be lived effectively. We have just the opposite case now, and I would extend Iconodule’s sentiments that this behavior reflects poorly on both the clerical and monastic vocations, even “in the world.”

This is more symptomatic of a larger problem, though.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2018, 12:39:33 PM by Antonis »
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Re: New Rules for Coptic Orthodox Monks
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2018, 01:19:21 PM »
This is more symptomatic of a larger problem, though.
And what would that be?
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