Author Topic: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?  (Read 564 times)

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Offline Nicholas_83

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Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« on: July 07, 2018, 02:05:35 AM »
I certainly don't want to get into speculation and rumours. But did the Archbishop say why he did not seek re-election as Primate of the Eastern Diocese?
I of course wish Fr. Daniel Findikyan the best; his recent statement s that the church must be first and foremost a church and not all things to all Armenians is encouraging.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2018, 12:19:35 PM »
How long are Armenian bishoprics' terms?
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Offline Aram

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2018, 03:48:39 PM »
Srpazan is 67 years old. He was our diocesan primate for nearly 30 years, a full seven terms. (We vote for our primate every four years.) He's been a clergyman in our diocese since the early 70s. It was a demanding job at the end of a long career. While I don't want to speak for His Eminence, every inclination has been that he was ready to retire. There's no reason, nor evidence to intimate anything to the contrary.

Offline Sethrak

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2018, 04:02:40 PM »
I think he just retired ~ he was there for years and years ```

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2018, 06:42:46 PM »
Why re-election?
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Offline Aram

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2018, 01:45:53 PM »
Why re-election?
Again, our diocese elects our primate to four-year terms. Thus, every fourth year, the annual Diocesan Assembly holds an election. Abp. Khajag was re-elected six times before he decided to retire.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2018, 01:49:01 PM »
Why re-election?
Again, our diocese elects our primate to four-year terms. Thus, every fourth year, the annual Diocesan Assembly holds an election. Abp. Khajag was re-elected six times before he decided to retire.
Oh, I see, I hadn't read the other comments with much attention. Why does your diocese work this way?
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2018, 04:39:13 PM »
I'm guessing that the Armenians still retain the old tradition of electing bishops. It's just that they added a modern twist of re-electing them every few years. Maybe this is something the Chalcedonians can copy.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2018, 05:21:18 PM »
I'm guessing that the Armenians still retain the old tradition of electing bishops. It's just that they added a modern twist of re-electing them every few years. Maybe this is something the Chalcedonians can copy.

What for?
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Online Justin Kolodziej

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2018, 06:28:15 PM »
I'm guessing that the Armenians still retain the old tradition of electing bishops. It's just that they added a modern twist of re-electing them every few years. Maybe this is something the Chalcedonians can copy.
meh. Seems like it could go horribly wrong.

Actually, I'd be happiest if all bishops, especially first-hierarchs, were selected the way the Pope of Alexandria is: find three worthy candidates and let a kid draw the name out of a bowl.
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Online Remnkemi

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2018, 01:56:36 PM »
I'm guessing that the Armenians still retain the old tradition of electing bishops. It's just that they added a modern twist of re-electing them every few years. Maybe this is something the Chalcedonians can copy.
meh. Seems like it could go horribly wrong.

Actually, I'd be happiest if all bishops, especially first-hierarchs, were selected the way the Pope of Alexandria is: find three worthy candidates and let a kid draw the name out of a bowl.
The lot decision is only for the pope in the Coptic Church. All bishops are nominated and ordained or elevated by the Pope and the Synod. The lot system became official in 1957. Before that it was used but other techniques were also used.

The question I have is why is retirement a good idea? A pope, bishop, priest or deacon is a father first and foremost. One can't retire from biological fatherhood. Why should it be different for spiritual fathers? The idea of re-election and retirement seems to be a modern innovation that no one sees as a problem.

Offline Agabus

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2018, 02:30:37 PM »
I'm guessing that the Armenians still retain the old tradition of electing bishops. It's just that they added a modern twist of re-electing them every few years. Maybe this is something the Chalcedonians can copy.
meh. Seems like it could go horribly wrong.

So can lifetime appointments.
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2018, 11:14:43 PM »
Srpazan is 67 years old. He was our diocesan primate for nearly 30 years, a full seven terms. (We vote for our primate every four years.) He's been a clergyman in our diocese since the early 70s. It was a demanding job at the end of a long career. While I don't want to speak for His Eminence, every inclination has been that he was ready to retire. There's no reason, nor evidence to intimate anything to the contrary.

Is this practice of episcopal elections the norm in both the Etchmiadzin and Cilicia jurisdictions?
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Offline Sethrak

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2018, 10:39:11 PM »
Election ~ Yes ~ I think so ```

As far as his reason for retiring ~ if we look at what he said his reason was ~ we'll find it is the truth ```


He was a good man ~ I always wished he would loose his glasses and/or get contacts ```




A bishop is a bishop for life ~ their term in a certain Chair , like at a collage , may be a given # of years ```
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 10:46:25 PM by Sethrak »

Offline Aram

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2018, 10:19:13 PM »
Honestly, I find this thread pretty distasteful across the board, but that's just me. His Eminence has earned a dignified retirement, and here we are, starting with insinuations there was something else afoot, others questioning our church's practices, and a nice aside on whether or not Khajag Srpazan should be wearing glasses or contacts. Totally silly.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2018, 10:43:06 PM »
Honestly, I find this thread pretty distasteful across the board, but that's just me. His Eminence has earned a dignified retirement, and here we are, starting with insinuations there was something else afoot, others questioning our church's practices, and a nice aside on whether or not Khajag Srpazan should be wearing glasses or contacts. Totally silly.

+1

I am curious though whether or not all Armenian bishops are subject to re-election, because the idea seems novel and in some cases potentially beneficial.  I am not opposed nor do I question the Armenian church; I regard it as a paragon of Orthodoxy and was simply unaware of the extent of this distinctive practice.
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Offline Nicholas_83

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2018, 08:26:38 PM »
This was expressly not my intent when I started the thread.
I simply wasn't familiar with the practice of Primatial election or retirement. I expected retirement or maybe moving to a different role., But hadn't seen statement so was naturally curious. I'm sorry that bringing it up lead down a negative route.
Honestly, I find this thread pretty distasteful across the board, but that's just me. His Eminence has earned a dignified retirement, and here we are, starting with insinuations there was something else afoot, others questioning our church's practices, and a nice aside on whether or not Khajag Srpazan should be wearing glasses or contacts. Totally silly.

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2018, 10:04:30 PM »
This was expressly not my intent when I started the thread.
I simply wasn't familiar with the practice of Primatial election or retirement. I expected retirement or maybe moving to a different role., But hadn't seen statement so was naturally curious. I'm sorry that bringing it up lead down a negative route.
Honestly, I find this thread pretty distasteful across the board, but that's just me. His Eminence has earned a dignified retirement, and here we are, starting with insinuations there was something else afoot, others questioning our church's practices, and a nice aside on whether or not Khajag Srpazan should be wearing glasses or contacts. Totally silly.

It’s OK.  You have to realize there are some people here who take some OO practices that are not common among EO and turn it into something else.  For example:

“Ethiopian Orthodox use drums in certain rituals” —> “Haile Selassie is their one true god and they worship him by smoking pot and engaging in sex yoga.”
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline Nicholas_83

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2018, 10:28:23 PM »
Thanks.
That was worth a chuckle.
I also admit to have come to seeing Orthodoxy as the norm (and in the Minnesota community pretty strong inter-Orthodox unity), so my infrequent visits to the boards and their occasions of controversy are sometimes surprising
This was expressly not my intent when I started the thread.
I simply wasn't familiar with the practice of Primatial election or retirement. I expected retirement or maybe moving to a different role., But hadn't seen statement so was naturally curious. I'm sorry that bringing it up lead down a negative route.
Honestly, I find this thread pretty distasteful across the board, but that's just me. His Eminence has earned a dignified retirement, and here we are, starting with insinuations there was something else afoot, others questioning our church's practices, and a nice aside on whether or not Khajag Srpazan should be wearing glasses or contacts. Totally silly.

It’s OK.  You have to realize there are some people here who take some OO practices that are not common among EO and turn it into something else.  For example:

“Ethiopian Orthodox use drums in certain rituals” —> “Haile Selassie is their one true god and they worship him by smoking pot and engaging in sex yoga.”

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2018, 11:40:53 PM »
Honestly, I find this thread pretty distasteful across the board, but that's just me. His Eminence has earned a dignified retirement, and here we are, starting with insinuations there was something else afoot, others questioning our church's practices, and a nice aside on whether or not Khajag Srpazan should be wearing glasses or contacts. Totally silly.
It's just... curious that a XXI-century Orthodox community apparently practices the most ancient way of electing bishops. I like that.
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Offline Father Peter

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Re: Why did Archbishop Khajag Barsamian step aside?
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2018, 02:19:52 PM »
It's not really the most ancient means of electing a bishop. Indeed it has been used only 11 or 12 times in the history of the Church of Alexandria, and usually only at times of conflict and controversy. It is definitely useful at the moment but it is not a "better" method. Indeed it could cause problems in other circumstances.
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