Author Topic: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment  (Read 21063 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Saxon

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 385
  • Faith: Christian
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #135 on: March 09, 2019, 12:56:56 PM »
I can't dispute any of that, I don't have the experience to and likely wouldn't want to even if I did, but the question I want to ask you is- is there anywhere better?

Is there any denomination, any religion, any worldview that doesn't often wind up putting cultural or political aspects ahead of its loftier teachings and aspirations? Isn't that just part of life among frail humanity?

I don't know, that's the question I'm asking myself right now. I'm disgusted and livid. I'm waiting until I calm down before I start making decisions on how to go forward, but at the moment, I would like to take every icon I have in my home and snap it in half. The problem isn't isolated to this parish and the cretins who attend it. Archbishop Gabriel and several other people in the ROCOR hierarchy are well aware of what happened (and is continuing to happen) and won't act. Useless, spineless bunch. If I wanted to be part of a church that ignores degenerate priests who ruin peoples' lives, then I'd turn to Catholicism. But apparently it makes no difference wherever one is in the Christian milieu.

Offline PorphyriosK

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,363
  • Господи помилуй
  • Faith: Russian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #136 on: March 09, 2019, 01:08:47 PM »
I can't dispute any of that, I don't have the experience to and likely wouldn't want to even if I did, but the question I want to ask you is- is there anywhere better?

Is there any denomination, any religion, any worldview that doesn't often wind up putting cultural or political aspects ahead of its loftier teachings and aspirations? Isn't that just part of life among frail humanity?

I don't know, that's the question I'm asking myself right now. I'm disgusted and livid. I'm waiting until I calm down before I start making decisions on how to go forward, but at the moment, I would like to take every icon I have in my home and snap it in half. The problem isn't isolated to this parish and the cretins who attend it. Archbishop Gabriel and several other people in the ROCOR hierarchy are well aware of what happened (and is continuing to happen) and won't act. Useless, spineless bunch. If I wanted to be part of a church that ignores degenerate priests who ruin peoples' lives, then I'd turn to Catholicism. But apparently it makes no difference wherever one is in the Christian milieu.

If you want freedom and peace for your soul, forgive them all, then forget the whole thing and move on.  You've done all you can and made everything known to the right authorities.  It's all on them now.  Relieve yourself of the burden to make everything right.  God will do that, in His own way and His own time.  Ignore hypocrites and leave all those people to God's mercy and justice and focus on your own sinfulness and need for Christ.  You'll recover your peace.
"When you don’t live with Christ, you live in melancholy, in sorrow, in anxiety and in worry. You don’t live properly… The best medicine is to devote yourself to the worship of Christ. Everything is cured. Everything works properly."

~ St. Porphyrios


"The Church is indeed 'Apostolic'.  But the Church is also 'Patristic'.  And only by being 'Patristic' is the Church continuously 'Apostolic'."

~ Fr. Georges Florovsky

Offline Volnutt

  • Dull Sublunary Lover
  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 15,089
  • too often left in the payment of false ponchos
  • Faith: Evangelical by default
  • Jurisdiction: Spiritually homeless
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #137 on: March 09, 2019, 01:13:20 PM »
I can't dispute any of that, I don't have the experience to and likely wouldn't want to even if I did, but the question I want to ask you is- is there anywhere better?

Is there any denomination, any religion, any worldview that doesn't often wind up putting cultural or political aspects ahead of its loftier teachings and aspirations? Isn't that just part of life among frail humanity?

I don't know, that's the question I'm asking myself right now. I'm disgusted and livid. I'm waiting until I calm down before I start making decisions on how to go forward, but at the moment, I would like to take every icon I have in my home and snap it in half. The problem isn't isolated to this parish and the cretins who attend it. Archbishop Gabriel and several other people in the ROCOR hierarchy are well aware of what happened (and is continuing to happen) and won't act. Useless, spineless bunch. If I wanted to be part of a church that ignores degenerate priests who ruin peoples' lives, then I'd turn to Catholicism. But apparently it makes no difference wherever one is in the Christian milieu in organized religion in human culture.

Fixed it for you (twice).

Regardless though, I'm so sorry you have to go through this and for what it's still worth, I'm praying for you.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Alpha60

  • A thing of routers, hubs and switches, and dreary web GUIs
  • Technical Director
  • Taxiarches
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,799
  • OCNet Systems and Network Operations
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #138 on: March 09, 2019, 03:05:48 PM »
I can't dispute any of that, I don't have the experience to and likely wouldn't want to even if I did, but the question I want to ask you is- is there anywhere better?

Is there any denomination, any religion, any worldview that doesn't often wind up putting cultural or political aspects ahead of its loftier teachings and aspirations? Isn't that just part of life among frail humanity?

I don't know, that's the question I'm asking myself right now. I'm disgusted and livid. I'm waiting until I calm down before I start making decisions on how to go forward, but at the moment, I would like to take every icon I have in my home and snap it in half. The problem isn't isolated to this parish and the cretins who attend it. Archbishop Gabriel and several other people in the ROCOR hierarchy are well aware of what happened (and is continuing to happen) and won't act. Useless, spineless bunch. If I wanted to be part of a church that ignores degenerate priests who ruin peoples' lives, then I'd turn to Catholicism. But apparently it makes no difference wherever one is in the Christian milieu in organized religion in human culture.

Fixed it for you (twice).

Regardless though, I'm so sorry you have to go through this and for what it's still worth, I'm praying for you.

+1

There are other Orthodox churches.  The OCA probably has the most advanced safeguards against abuse of any North American Orthodox Church.

Council of Nicea:
Εθη ἀρχαῖα κρατείτω. 
Mores antiqui obtineant.
The ancient ways shall prevail.

The sentiment of Nicea in Greek and Latin, translated into English.

Offline Saxon

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 385
  • Faith: Christian
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #139 on: March 09, 2019, 03:40:04 PM »
I can't dispute any of that, I don't have the experience to and likely wouldn't want to even if I did, but the question I want to ask you is- is there anywhere better?

Is there any denomination, any religion, any worldview that doesn't often wind up putting cultural or political aspects ahead of its loftier teachings and aspirations? Isn't that just part of life among frail humanity?


I don't know, that's the question I'm asking myself right now. I'm disgusted and livid. I'm waiting until I calm down before I start making decisions on how to go forward, but at the moment, I would like to take every icon I have in my home and snap it in half. The problem isn't isolated to this parish and the cretins who attend it. Archbishop Gabriel and several other people in the ROCOR hierarchy are well aware of what happened (and is continuing to happen) and won't act. Useless, spineless bunch. If I wanted to be part of a church that ignores degenerate priests who ruin peoples' lives, then I'd turn to Catholicism. But apparently it makes no difference wherever one is in the Christian milieu in organized religion in human culture.

Fixed it for you (twice).

Regardless though, I'm so sorry you have to go through this and for what it's still worth, I'm praying for you.

+1

There are other Orthodox churches.  The OCA probably has the most advanced safeguards against abuse of any North American Orthodox Church.

I’m not disputing that, and full credit to the OCA parish I’ve been attending for the past few months - almost without exception, everyone has been great. But I cannot get past my experience at the ROCOR parish. Virtually everyone from the priest on down at that church is the definition of a scumbag. Even when I met with the junior priest, he was more interested in telling me that I’m now no longer allowed to be ordained as I’m the product of a failed marriage (I also wil not accept any faith with a rule like that). I can’t become a priest because I’m divorced, and ironically in large part because of what a priest did, but a priest who steals money and beat people is allowed to carry on, and people who know what he does still hang out and drink with him? I almost can’t get my head around what a trainwreck the Orthodox Church is.

Offline Eamonomae

  • The Prodigal Son, except I do it at least twice a week
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,221
  • Saint Thomas, pray for us.
  • Faith: Unsure Liturgical Christian
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #140 on: March 09, 2019, 04:27:59 PM »
Which is why it’s a bloody miracle that the Church has survived all the persecutions it has.

It’s a ship run by fools and morons who can’t see three feet in front of them, but whose Captain is Christ.

Offline Sethrak

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,072
  • Faith: Armenian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Etchmiadzin, Armenia
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #141 on: March 09, 2019, 04:47:28 PM »
Greeting Saxon ~ what an experience you've had ~ could be made into a movie ~ the people of the parish want to stay below the radar ~ would like to have the animal checked ~ don't want to run out front ~ I guess you have to expect that ~ takes a certain amount of courage ~ not everyone has that ```

Glad you came by to update ~ I don't think there are any limitations on you as far as the Church is concerned ```

I'm going to read a bit more of this thread ~ just read a couple snips before posting ```

I know you feel like you've been pulled backwards through a hedge ~ but ~ don't let the insane shade your closeness to the Lord or the Church ~ we run into some strange ones who have somehow gotten in a position of control ~ if we let ourselves recoil from their ugliness and spite ~ where can we go ```

Gather together Christians and worship Our Lord is the Orthodox Custom where the wicked are not ~ of course you could help those parish members who would like to have that rotten bully of a now priest censured or removed ~ that sounds like what they would like ~ or if you've tried and there is no response ~ move on ~ I know it's hard ```

Lord strengthen our brother ~ hold him close ~ heal ```
Իմաստութիւն Հոր Յիսուս՝ տո՝ւր մեզ իաստուփին՝ զբարիս խորհել եւ խոսել եւ գործել առաջի Քո յամենայն ժամ : եւ ի չար խորհրդոց ի բանից եւ ի գործոց   փրկեա  զմեզ՝ ամէն:
Jesus, Wisdom of the Father, give us wisdom, to think, speak and do what is Good before you at all times. And save us from evil thoughts, words and deed, amen.

Offline rakovsky

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,970
  • St. Mstislav I
    • The Old Testament Prophecies of the Messiah's Resurrection and Orthodox Christianity's roots in the Holy Land
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #142 on: November 18, 2019, 02:53:15 AM »
I’m not disputing that, and full credit to the OCA parish I’ve been attending for the past few months - almost without exception, everyone has been great. But I cannot get past my experience at the ROCOR parish. Virtually everyone from the priest on down at that church is the definition of a scumbag.
I don't know the situation there. Maybe sometimes it happens that everyone at a church is a scumbag, but I'd like to think it is rare. A church in a way is a religious microcosm of a broader community or even population. I don't know if one can generalize about every person like that. Maybe sometimes big groups really can be bad to a man. That was God's impression about Sodom and Gomorrah it seemed.
The ocean, infinite to men, and the worlds beyond it, are directed by the same ordinances of the Lord. ~ I Clement 20

Offline IreneOlinyk

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 883
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #143 on: November 19, 2019, 07:58:58 PM »
Saxon, it has been over 6 months since you posted in this thread.  How are you doing?  How are the people in your new OCA parish treating you?  Are you singing in the choir or other activity in your parish.
Hoping all is well with you.

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,702
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #144 on: November 19, 2019, 08:10:10 PM »
Every church has its malcontents.  When I attend the Russian Festival, I cringe at having to deal with drunken Russians.  Having a shot of vodka usually relaxes the nerves.

When I worked at my church's festival, I cringed when I had to hand out warm beers to customers.  For my sanity, I stopped working at the church festival.

Offline isxodnik

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 794
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROC
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #145 on: November 19, 2019, 08:23:00 PM »
When I attend the Russian Festival, I cringe at having to deal with drunken Russians.  Having a shot of vodka usually relaxes the nerves.

Thanks for reminding me, man! ))
- Вы говорите, они вам угрожали?
- Да, сказали "сюда иди".
- Ну, "иди сюда" - это не угроза.
- "Иди сюда" - нет, а "сюда иди" - очень даже.

Offline Jude1:3

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 434
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #146 on: November 20, 2019, 11:07:29 AM »
  For my sanity, I stopped working at the church festival.

^^^ This ^^^

I had to work with a really jerky person while grilling the lamb during Pascha last year.

 I forgive the person but I don't want to be around him or have any interaction with him.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 11:09:56 AM by Jude1:3 »
"By The Sign Of The Cross All Magic Is Stopped, And All Witchcraft Brought To Nothing" .....
(On The Incarnation Of The Word - 31)
• Saint Athanasius of Alexandria (296-373 A.D.)

Through the prayers of our Holy Fathers, Lord Jesus Christ our God, have mercy on us and save us. Amen.

Offline Alpha60

  • A thing of routers, hubs and switches, and dreary web GUIs
  • Technical Director
  • Taxiarches
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,799
  • OCNet Systems and Network Operations
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #147 on: November 20, 2019, 07:52:33 PM »
Every church has its malcontents.  When I attend the Russian Festival, I cringe at having to deal with drunken Russians.  Having a shot of vodka usually relaxes the nerves.

When I worked at my church's festival, I cringed when I had to hand out warm beers to customers.  For my sanity, I stopped working at the church festival.

ROFL!  I love the irony of you drinking vodka due to being annoyed by drunk people.  Doubtless one person initially drank a vodka and it sort of spread through the festival like a contagion...  :P

Seriously though I myself have no qualms about church festivals and have not seen any bad behavior at them.

Council of Nicea:
Εθη ἀρχαῖα κρατείτω. 
Mores antiqui obtineant.
The ancient ways shall prevail.

The sentiment of Nicea in Greek and Latin, translated into English.

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,702
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #148 on: November 20, 2019, 10:58:45 PM »
Every church has its malcontents.  When I attend the Russian Festival, I cringe at having to deal with drunken Russians.  Having a shot of vodka usually relaxes the nerves.

When I worked at my church's festival, I cringed when I had to hand out warm beers to customers.  For my sanity, I stopped working at the church festival.

ROFL!  I love the irony of you drinking vodka due to being annoyed by drunk people.  Doubtless one person initially drank a vodka and it sort of spread through the festival like a contagion...  :P

Seriously though I myself have no qualms about church festivals and have not seen any bad behavior at them.

When in Rome ... or when attending a Russian Festival....

I attended a picnic which used to have beer trucks.  One year, things got out of hand with fights and brawls and the township refused to give the picnic organizers a license to sell beer.  That doesn't stop them from bringing in all kinds of canned beer although the number of participants has dwindled throughout the years.

Offline sheep100

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 59
  • Lord have mercy!!!
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #149 on: November 26, 2019, 09:19:53 PM »
Focus on your own salvation.....forgive and stop judging . Alot of your posts seem to be how can I be in a Church with such a sinner. I know you've been offended but you need to forgive.
Please forgive my sins brothers and sisters especially anything hateful I have said about anyone or any group!

Offline Saxon

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 385
  • Faith: Christian
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #150 on: November 28, 2019, 11:51:27 AM »
Saxon, it has been over 6 months since you posted in this thread.  How are you doing?  How are the people in your new OCA parish treating you?  Are you singing in the choir or other activity in your parish.
Hoping all is well with you.

Hello Irene,

I'm doing well thanks, relatively speaking. My OCA parish has been wonderful and very supportive from the top-down. A place to learn and grow in the faith. It's the Orthodox milieu I wish I had to begin with.

I still deal with intense bitterness/anger towards my former priest. The realization that that blow to the head could have killed me doesn't create much incentive to forgive, let alone what came after for me personally largely as a result of it. I still have friends in ROCOR and occasionally see photos of him at various church events. Unfortunately the ROCOR community here in Ontario is very tight-nit, so he gets around. I met with some ROCOR clergy from the area and was surprised to learn that he's universally regarded as a drunken oaf and a problem, but as long as the Archbishop lets him get away with it, he can keep showing his face in clerical garb. He was recently at the 70th anniversary celebration for Holy Trinity Cathedral in Toronto. He still has a few friends and sycophants, but the majority of people who continue to associate with him or go to his parish do it because it's the church they're familiar with, rather than out of any personal devotion to him as a priest or as a friend.

My current parish priest contextualized it very effectively, essentially telling me not to conflate the Orthodox faith with the institution of ROCOR, as the latter doesn't speak for Orthodoxy. He also asked point blank what benefits are brought to me by remaining in contact with people who continue to associate with him (yet denigrate him behind his back). The answer was none. So I severed contact with those in question and feel like I removed a toxic element from my life, which has also been helpful. I still deal with episodes where I'm tempted to abandon the Church, largely whenever the old priest's face or name comes up, but those episodes are fewer and further between and I feel better equipped to deal with them now.

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 19,401
  • You're my guardian angel hiding in the woods
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #151 on: November 28, 2019, 12:05:41 PM »
Quote
those episodes are fewer and further between and I feel better equipped to deal with them now.

Glory to Our God.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline WPM

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,774
  • Faith: Ethiopian Jew
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #152 on: November 28, 2019, 01:03:18 PM »
Saxon, it has been over 6 months since you posted in this thread.  How are you doing?  How are the people in your new OCA parish treating you?  Are you singing in the choir or other activity in your parish.
Hoping all is well with you.

Hello Irene,

I'm doing well thanks, relatively speaking. My OCA parish has been wonderful and very supportive from the top-down. A place to learn and grow in the faith. It's the Orthodox milieu I wish I had to begin with.

I still deal with intense bitterness/anger towards my former priest. The realization that that blow to the head could have killed me doesn't create much incentive to forgive, let alone what came after for me personally largely as a result of it. I still have friends in ROCOR and occasionally see photos of him at various church events. Unfortunately the ROCOR community here in Ontario is very tight-nit, so he gets around. I met with some ROCOR clergy from the area and was surprised to learn that he's universally regarded as a drunken oaf and a problem, but as long as the Archbishop lets him get away with it, he can keep showing his face in clerical garb. He was recently at the 70th anniversary celebration for Holy Trinity Cathedral in Toronto. He still has a few friends and sycophants, but the majority of people who continue to associate with him or go to his parish do it because it's the church they're familiar with, rather than out of any personal devotion to him as a priest or as a friend.

My current parish priest contextualized it very effectively, essentially telling me not to conflate the Orthodox faith with the institution of ROCOR, as the latter doesn't speak for Orthodoxy. He also asked point blank what benefits are brought to me by remaining in contact with people who continue to associate with him (yet denigrate him behind his back). The answer was none. So I severed contact with those in question and feel like I removed a toxic element from my life, which has also been helpful. I still deal with episodes where I'm tempted to abandon the Church, largely whenever the old priest's face or name comes up, but those episodes are fewer and further between and I feel better equipped to deal with them now.

Hey I hope you OVERCOME and that this Works out in your favor.
The local court Representative said my new name was Ghana M. Ghat.

Offline Ainnir

  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,384
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #153 on: November 28, 2019, 02:07:12 PM »
Glory to God.  Lord, continue to have mercy.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no idea, so there’s that.

Pray for me, a wretched sinner.

Jacob wrestled with God all through the night.  At the break of day, he became Israel.

Offline Saxon

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 385
  • Faith: Christian
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #154 on: January 08, 2020, 05:35:14 PM »
I’ve been in a funny place the past few weeks that has led me to the feeling of simply having lost interest in Orthodoxy. And this time it isn’t born out of anger or despair about my experience with ROCOR (of course, being assault by that drunken degenerate priest and ROCOR’s refusal to take action is always in the “background”, so to speak), but out of more sober and calm reflection. It’s just a crushing sense of indifference. I go to liturgy, but I no longer participate. I can say quite definitely I’ll never confess or commune again, or at least not in the foreseeable future. I don’t fast. And honestly, I don’t care. I’m also extremely tired of the ethnic components, of immigrant clergy rambling on in foreign languages to immigrant parishioners who use the church as a community centre - and I’m saying that as an avowed Slavophile. As much as I appreciate my OCA parish, there’s something eye-roll worthy about Anglo-Canadian converts going around in headscarves and Byzantine clerical garb referring to each other with Slavonic honorifics. I’m still “in” because I enjoy the aesthetics of Orthodoxy and because, having quite a few friends in the parish and at other Orthodox churches, I would feel bad about abandoning it on a personal level and fear what it could mean for those friendships.

What’s frustrating is that I’m not indifferent to Christianity. But where else to go? A Catholic parish in my city recently began holding a weekly Tridentine Mass, which is remarkable given that the Catholic Church here in Ontario tends to be on the extreme progressive side. I certainly retain a fondness and nostalgia for Western rite liturgies. But there’s no “pull” factor towards Catholicism for me. I reject and would not accept core dogmatic beliefs of Rome. It’s a push factor away from Orthodoxy. So what would be the point there?

Well, who knows. I’ve been hoping and praying for some epiphany or event that pushes me decisively in one direction or another. But so far, it hasn’t come.

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,702
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #155 on: January 08, 2020, 06:26:12 PM »
I'm in the same boat.  I can't find the truth of Orthodoxy in other religions; hence, I stay where I am in Orthodoxy even though I don't attend church as frequently as I would like.

I'll pray for you.

Offline isxodnik

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 794
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROC
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #156 on: January 08, 2020, 07:53:37 PM »
This is a fairly common phenomenon, both among laymen and parishioners, when a person does not give all of himself to God, but leaves a corner in his heart for himself. As a result, there is a so-called "burnout", or more honestly - cooling. The treatment here is obvious: prayer to God and the search for and elimination of the cause. It is possible that in your case the stumbling block was that resentment against the priest and the Church (even if they were a thousand times wrong).

Also it may be that this is one of the stages of spiritual growth, but I don't think so.
- Вы говорите, они вам угрожали?
- Да, сказали "сюда иди".
- Ну, "иди сюда" - это не угроза.
- "Иди сюда" - нет, а "сюда иди" - очень даже.

Offline Sethrak

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,072
  • Faith: Armenian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Etchmiadzin, Armenia
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #157 on: January 08, 2020, 09:57:43 PM »
Hi Saxon ~ I am really sorry you're in such a space ~ that is if you had it ~ that feeling during worship ~ felt the presents of our Lord ~ and now are standing outside looking at the surface ~ what you had happen due to that *&&^*&%%%$%$&  ~ Well, I wish for you ~ the return, the wonderful communion ~ myself I like group confession ~ anyway I'll pray you see past that person/persons to Christ ~ you said you still know the Lord ~ that's good ~ Saxon you have to see past certain people ~ they have no idea they'r  being evil ~ sometime I think they see themselves as right in there ~ even doing the work of the Lord ~ boping along like they've the keys to the Kingdom ~ all the while be the most hateful scum ~ I hope you come back in ~ maybe another building ~ I don't know Saxon ~ stay with it ~ they'll be such a hole left if you don't ~ it's there now tho no one can see it ```

God love you ```

your brother in Christ

seth
Իմաստութիւն Հոր Յիսուս՝ տո՝ւր մեզ իաստուփին՝ զբարիս խորհել եւ խոսել եւ գործել առաջի Քո յամենայն ժամ : եւ ի չար խորհրդոց ի բանից եւ ի գործոց   փրկեա  զմեզ՝ ամէն:
Jesus, Wisdom of the Father, give us wisdom, to think, speak and do what is Good before you at all times. And save us from evil thoughts, words and deed, amen.

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 19,401
  • You're my guardian angel hiding in the woods
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #158 on: January 09, 2020, 12:33:32 AM »
Quote
referring to each other with Slavonic honorifics

Lolwut
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Saxon

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 385
  • Faith: Christian
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #159 on: January 09, 2020, 07:35:15 AM »
Quote
referring to each other with Slavonic honorifics

Lolwut

Batushka and Matushka in a parish without a single Russian.

Offline isxodnik

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 794
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROC
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #160 on: January 09, 2020, 07:40:28 AM »
Yes, it annoys me, too. What are you, in the stump, "matushka"?! Popadya!
- Вы говорите, они вам угрожали?
- Да, сказали "сюда иди".
- Ну, "иди сюда" - это не угроза.
- "Иди сюда" - нет, а "сюда иди" - очень даже.

Online Arachne

  • Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
  • Section Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,971
  • Race: Human. Culture: Yes.
  • Faith: Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #161 on: January 09, 2020, 08:18:58 AM »
Quote
referring to each other with Slavonic honorifics

Lolwut

Batushka and Matushka in a parish without a single Russian.

Eh. 'Father' is good enough, but the Western vocabulary doesn't have a word for 'priest's wife' and needs to borrow. The jurisdiction's official language will do. There's not a single Arab in my Antiochian parish, but Father's wife is still Khouria.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

~ bookshelf ~ ugly writing ~ jukebox ~

Offline PorphyriosK

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,363
  • Господи помилуй
  • Faith: Russian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #162 on: January 09, 2020, 08:48:26 AM »
This is a fairly common phenomenon, both among laymen and parishioners, when a person does not give all of himself to God, but leaves a corner in his heart for himself. As a result, there is a so-called "burnout", or more honestly - cooling. The treatment here is obvious: prayer to God and the search for and elimination of the cause. It is possible that in your case the stumbling block was that resentment against the priest and the Church (even if they were a thousand times wrong).

Also it may be that this is one of the stages of spiritual growth, but I don't think so.

Well said, this has been my own personal experience as well.  I'm not saying that this is your particular situation Saxon, but there was a long period of time when I had let my interior prayer life and spirituality wither and die and it caused me to have many similar feelings.  It happened without me even realizing how it came about or how far I'd fallen.  During that time I avoided the sacraments and the church atmosphere seemed off-putting and tiresome, and pious people even seemed irritating to me.  I even found myself avoiding looking at my icons at home.  That in particular was what clued me in to the fact that something was extremely wrong within my own heart and soul. 

Again, I'm not saying this is the case with you at all, but if anyone else finds themselves in a similar situation, just know that the solution is not to despair but to simply repent and start again fresh, and return to the narrow path.  When I cut out things in my life that were competing with God, false idols, excessive and wrong kinds of entertainment, worldly ambitions, etc, and returned to a regular prayer rule and spiritual reading, God began to heal me and the Church came alive again.  We laymen are called to serious prayer and asceticism, not just clergy and monastics.  Without these things, the Church makes no sense.   
« Last Edit: January 09, 2020, 08:49:29 AM by PorphyriosK »
"When you don’t live with Christ, you live in melancholy, in sorrow, in anxiety and in worry. You don’t live properly… The best medicine is to devote yourself to the worship of Christ. Everything is cured. Everything works properly."

~ St. Porphyrios


"The Church is indeed 'Apostolic'.  But the Church is also 'Patristic'.  And only by being 'Patristic' is the Church continuously 'Apostolic'."

~ Fr. Georges Florovsky

Offline Tannhouser

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 30
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA Catechumen
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #163 on: January 09, 2020, 09:11:13 AM »
@PorphyriosK - I appreciate your pragmatic statements/solutions for which appear to be complex issues, but can be typically solved by less complex solutions. Our Priest made a statement a bit ago to simplify was "do not do that thing" about a problem with many branches. Yes there was theology behind his instruction which he gave a snippet of, but sometimes the heart doesn't need rationale.

Offline Saxon

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 385
  • Faith: Christian
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #164 on: January 09, 2020, 11:04:07 AM »
This is a fairly common phenomenon, both among laymen and parishioners, when a person does not give all of himself to God, but leaves a corner in his heart for himself. As a result, there is a so-called "burnout", or more honestly - cooling. The treatment here is obvious: prayer to God and the search for and elimination of the cause. It is possible that in your case the stumbling block was that resentment against the priest and the Church (even if they were a thousand times wrong).

Also it may be that this is one of the stages of spiritual growth, but I don't think so.

Well said, this has been my own personal experience as well.  I'm not saying that this is your particular situation Saxon, but there was a long period of time when I had let my interior prayer life and spirituality wither and die and it caused me to have many similar feelings.  It happened without me even realizing how it came about or how far I'd fallen.  During that time I avoided the sacraments and the church atmosphere seemed off-putting and tiresome, and pious people even seemed irritating to me.  I even found myself avoiding looking at my icons at home.  That in particular was what clued me in to the fact that something was extremely wrong within my own heart and soul. 

Again, I'm not saying this is the case with you at all, but if anyone else finds themselves in a similar situation, just know that the solution is not to despair but to simply repent and start again fresh, and return to the narrow path.  When I cut out things in my life that were competing with God, false idols, excessive and wrong kinds of entertainment, worldly ambitions, etc, and returned to a regular prayer rule and spiritual reading, God began to heal me and the Church came alive again.  We laymen are called to serious prayer and asceticism, not just clergy and monastics.  Without these things, the Church makes no sense.

Well I agree, but what's getting to me at this point is that it isn't a resentment of church born out of anger and bitterness like it was in the aftermath of my priest saga. This time, it's just a complete disinterest, and a feeling that Orthodoxy for me will be a never-ending cycle of misery/enthusiasm/despair, roughly in that order, then at what point should I conclude that, spiritually, it isn't for me (at least for now), and perhaps I could be better served elsewhere?

Offline IreneOlinyk

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 883
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #165 on: January 09, 2020, 11:55:25 AM »
I’ve been in a funny place the past few weeks that has led me to the feeling of simply having lost interest in Orthodoxy. And this time it isn’t born out of anger or despair about my experience with ROCOR (of course, being assault by that drunken degenerate priest and ROCOR’s refusal to take action is always in the “background”, so to speak), but out of more sober and calm reflection. It’s just a crushing sense of indifference. I go to liturgy, but I no longer participate. I can say quite definitely I’ll never confess or commune again, or at least not in the foreseeable future. I don’t fast. And honestly, I don’t care. I’m also extremely tired of the ethnic components, of immigrant clergy rambling on in foreign languages to immigrant parishioners who use the church as a community centre - and I’m saying that as an avowed Slavophile. As much as I appreciate my OCA parish, there’s something eye-roll worthy about Anglo-Canadian converts going around in headscarves and Byzantine clerical garb referring to each other with Slavonic honorifics. I’m still “in” because I enjoy the aesthetics of Orthodoxy and because, having quite a few friends in the parish and at other Orthodox churches, I would feel bad about abandoning it on a personal level and fear what it could mean for those friendships.

What’s frustrating is that I’m not indifferent to Christianity. But where else to go? A Catholic parish in my city recently began holding a weekly Tridentine Mass, which is remarkable given that the Catholic Church here in Ontario tends to be on the extreme progressive side. I certainly retain a fondness and nostalgia for Western rite liturgies. But there’s no “pull” factor towards Catholicism for me. I reject and would not accept core dogmatic beliefs of Rome. It’s a push factor away from Orthodoxy. So what would be the point there?

Well, who knows. I’ve been hoping and praying for some epiphany or event that pushes me decisively in one direction or another. But so far, it hasn’t come.

I am truly sorry this is happening to you.  I was so encouraged by your previous post because I thought you had found a priest who listened to you at last and a parish home  that might grow into a place where you felt loved and respected.  We all need that feeling of "connection" in our parishes- to feel part of being in the family of God.  Having a connection on the internet isn't enough because all of us need real Christian friends to talk to in person.  That's just part of being human.

I don't have any words of advice for you  sorry.  But I will pray for you as you go on in your journey.   

Offline Nathanael

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 512
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #166 on: January 10, 2020, 03:20:35 PM »
Always judging, hating, not forgiving & getting annoyed & upset by people around you (maybe I would have feeled in the same way) and (unconsciously) expecting that the feeling of God's grace will be still always present...spiritual life doens't work like that. We'll never find peace if we don't stop judging other people and especially if we don't forgive them. If we don't get to that quite normal level of the Gospel, there'll be never any real Progress and we'll especailly never feel comfortable in any church.  The hardest journey of all - the one that goes from the head to the heart. Forgive me Saxon.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 03:29:52 PM by Nathanael »
Father Pavle - "Give blood & receive the Spirit":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM6LlO434Dg

Offline Saxon

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 385
  • Faith: Christian
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #167 on: January 10, 2020, 03:52:37 PM »
Always judging, hating, not forgiving & getting annoyed & upset by people around you (maybe I would have feeled in the same way) and (unconsciously) expecting that the feeling of God's grace will be still always present...spiritual life doens't work like that. We'll never find peace if we don't stop judging other people and especially if we don't forgive them. If we don't get to that quite normal level of the Gospel, there'll be never any real Progress and we'll especailly never feel comfortable in any church.  The hardest journey of all - the one that goes from the head to the heart. Forgive me Saxon.

I thought I made it clear - unsuccessfully, evidently - that my current feeling of indifference towards the faith has nothing to do with my former priest discussed in this thread. I’ve moved on from that quite effectively with a combination of support from my current parish and priest and with the passage of time. But on that note, to sort of put the issue to rest, I will not forgive or pray for “Father” Peter. He’s a drunken degenerate who could have killed me with that blow to the head, not to mention what came about in the aftermath for me, personally. I will despise him, and his enablers and sycophants at his church and in the ROCOR hierarchy, for the rest of my life.

Offline Ainnir

  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,384
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #168 on: January 10, 2020, 04:32:12 PM »
Well I agree, but what's getting to me at this point is that it isn't a resentment of church born out of anger and bitterness like it was in the aftermath of my priest saga. This time, it's just a complete disinterest, and a feeling that Orthodoxy for me will be a never-ending cycle of misery/enthusiasm/despair, roughly in that order, then at what point should I conclude that, spiritually, it isn't for me (at least for now), and perhaps I could be better served elsewhere?
Remember that Church doesn't exist to serve us; we exist to serve God, and the Church teaches us how to to do this.  In the process we are healed and purified (and it definitely is not always comfortable).  What I don't know is if this is what you're experiencing, or if it's something else.  Growth is always uncomfortable, and the dark night of the soul and the spiritual desert are both real things, and must be weathered (with God) rather than escaped.  However, there's also an honesty and sincerity that needs to be behind what we're doing.  Not that this is salvific in itself, but God does not want false children.  Whether it's a spiritual battle or a lack of sincerity is something you'll have to discern yourself, ideally in prayer and with your priest.  In the meantime, if you still have faith in God, lean on that.  Cling to Christ and Holy Scripture, and keep praying (or start again if you've stopped).

One thing I want to caution against is viewing the Church merely as a conglomeration of jurisdictions, or worse, as a loose collection of different confessions that are all equally acceptable.  That is not an Orthodox view.  Try to view the Church holistically and organically, and remember that Orthodoxy means "right glory."

I hope you find peace.  Lord, have mercy on your servant.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no idea, so there’s that.

Pray for me, a wretched sinner.

Jacob wrestled with God all through the night.  At the break of day, he became Israel.

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Stratopedarches
  • **************
  • Posts: 19,401
  • You're my guardian angel hiding in the woods
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Enemy State Orthodox Church Abroad
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #169 on: January 10, 2020, 04:58:39 PM »
Always judging, hating, not forgiving & getting annoyed & upset by people around you (maybe I would have feeled in the same way) and (unconsciously) expecting that the feeling of God's grace will be still always present...spiritual life doens't work like that. We'll never find peace if we don't stop judging other people and especially if we don't forgive them. If we don't get to that quite normal level of the Gospel, there'll be never any real Progress and we'll especailly never feel comfortable in any church.  The hardest journey of all - the one that goes from the head to the heart. Forgive me Saxon.

I thought I made it clear - unsuccessfully, evidently - that my current feeling of indifference towards the faith has nothing to do with my former priest discussed in this thread. I’ve moved on from that quite effectively with a combination of support from my current parish and priest and with the passage of time. But on that note, to sort of put the issue to rest, I will not forgive or pray for “Father” Peter. He’s a drunken degenerate who could have killed me with that blow to the head, not to mention what came about in the aftermath for me, personally. I will despise him, and his enablers and sycophants at his church and in the ROCOR hierarchy, for the rest of my life.

It takes a lot of energy to despise someone until the end of your life.  Hopefully, it won't come to that.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Nathanael

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 512
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #170 on: January 10, 2020, 06:23:32 PM »
Always judging, hating, not forgiving & getting annoyed & upset by people around you (maybe I would have feeled in the same way) and (unconsciously) expecting that the feeling of God's grace will be still always present...spiritual life doens't work like that. We'll never find peace if we don't stop judging other people and especially if we don't forgive them. If we don't get to that quite normal level of the Gospel, there'll be never any real Progress and we'll especailly never feel comfortable in any church.  The hardest journey of all - the one that goes from the head to the heart. Forgive me Saxon.

I thought I made it clear - unsuccessfully, evidently - that my current feeling of indifference towards the faith has nothing to do with my former priest discussed in this thread. I’ve moved on from that quite effectively with a combination of support from my current parish and priest and with the passage of time. But on that note, to sort of put the issue to rest, I will not forgive or pray for “Father” Peter. He’s a drunken degenerate who could have killed me with that blow to the head, not to mention what came about in the aftermath for me, personally. I will despise him, and his enablers and sycophants at his church and in the ROCOR hierarchy, for the rest of my life.

Evidently, your feeling of indifference towards the faith is connected with your inner (spiritual) attitude. Although your level of anger and hate against Fr. Peter is not on the surface of your consciousness, it's still in your soul. I mean: your are in a quite "normal" and "healthy" orthodox community now and still you find external problems (tired of the ethnic components, and so on) as a cause for your indifference towards the faith. Only by prayers and by courage you can discover why your faith is dried out - not by reasoning. The only thing I know is that not only Fr. Peter is pathetic, we all are, especially me.
And sometimes we inherit some negative attitudes from a parent and we specially internalize it when we do not honor and respect that parent. We become what we despise - especially in the case of our parents.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 06:29:19 PM by Nathanael »
Father Pavle - "Give blood & receive the Spirit":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM6LlO434Dg

Offline Nathanael

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 512
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #171 on: January 10, 2020, 06:24:48 PM »
Always judging, hating, not forgiving & getting annoyed & upset by people around you (maybe I would have feeled in the same way) and (unconsciously) expecting that the feeling of God's grace will be still always present...spiritual life doens't work like that. We'll never find peace if we don't stop judging other people and especially if we don't forgive them. If we don't get to that quite normal level of the Gospel, there'll be never any real Progress and we'll especailly never feel comfortable in any church.  The hardest journey of all - the one that goes from the head to the heart. Forgive me Saxon.

I thought I made it clear - unsuccessfully, evidently - that my current feeling of indifference towards the faith has nothing to do with my former priest discussed in this thread. I’ve moved on from that quite effectively with a combination of support from my current parish and priest and with the passage of time. But on that note, to sort of put the issue to rest, I will not forgive or pray for “Father” Peter. He’s a drunken degenerate who could have killed me with that blow to the head, not to mention what came about in the aftermath for me, personally. I will despise him, and his enablers and sycophants at his church and in the ROCOR hierarchy, for the rest of my life.

It takes a lot of energy to despise someone until the end of your life.  Hopefully, it won't come to that.
+1
Father Pavle - "Give blood & receive the Spirit":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM6LlO434Dg

Offline PorphyriosK

  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,363
  • Господи помилуй
  • Faith: Russian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROCOR
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #172 on: January 10, 2020, 07:40:14 PM »
I will not forgive or pray for “Father” Peter. He’s a drunken degenerate who could have killed me with that blow to the head, not to mention what came about in the aftermath for me, personally. I will despise him, and his enablers and sycophants at his church and in the ROCOR hierarchy, for the rest of my life.

If we don't forgive, neither will we be forgiven and we will not inherit the Kingdom.  For the love of Christ, I pray that you'll have a change of heart brother.
"When you don’t live with Christ, you live in melancholy, in sorrow, in anxiety and in worry. You don’t live properly… The best medicine is to devote yourself to the worship of Christ. Everything is cured. Everything works properly."

~ St. Porphyrios


"The Church is indeed 'Apostolic'.  But the Church is also 'Patristic'.  And only by being 'Patristic' is the Church continuously 'Apostolic'."

~ Fr. Georges Florovsky

Offline Nathanael

  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 512
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #173 on: January 10, 2020, 08:19:25 PM »
I will not forgive or pray for “Father” Peter. He’s a drunken degenerate who could have killed me with that blow to the head, not to mention what came about in the aftermath for me, personally. I will despise him, and his enablers and sycophants at his church and in the ROCOR hierarchy, for the rest of my life.

If we don't forgive, neither will we be forgiven and we will not inherit the Kingdom.  For the love of Christ, I pray that you'll have a change of heart brother.

Quote
What’s frustrating is that I’m not indifferent to Christianity. But where else to go? A Catholic parish in my city recently began holding a weekly Tridentine Mass, which is remarkable given that the Catholic Church here in Ontario tends to be on the extreme progressive side. I certainly retain a fondness and nostalgia for Western rite liturgies. But there’s no “pull” factor towards Catholicism for me. I reject and would not accept core dogmatic beliefs of Rome.

It would be a pity if we would fail with the "dogma" of forgiving each other.
Unwillingness to forgive can become a passion like all other passion we cultivate and it may take a lot of effort, time, Energy & patience to get rid of it or to get rid of its deceiving power at least.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2020, 08:26:52 PM by Nathanael »
Father Pavle - "Give blood & receive the Spirit":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM6LlO434Dg

Offline ROCORWRVUK

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 80
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #174 on: January 10, 2020, 09:34:48 PM »
Nathanael and PorphyriosK speak the truth. Worth listening to them.

Offline Sethrak

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,072
  • Faith: Armenian Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Etchmiadzin, Armenia
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #175 on: January 11, 2020, 02:24:21 AM »
Are we to forgive where ~ forgiveness is not wanted ```
Իմաստութիւն Հոր Յիսուս՝ տո՝ւր մեզ իաստուփին՝ զբարիս խորհել եւ խոսել եւ գործել առաջի Քո յամենայն ժամ : եւ ի չար խորհրդոց ի բանից եւ ի գործոց   փրկեա  զմեզ՝ ամէն:
Jesus, Wisdom of the Father, give us wisdom, to think, speak and do what is Good before you at all times. And save us from evil thoughts, words and deed, amen.

Offline Brilko

  • Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 389
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: ?
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #176 on: January 11, 2020, 03:39:06 AM »
Bitterness is a rat gnawing at your soul. Forgiveness sends the rat back to the sewers from whence it came.

Offline isxodnik

  • BANNED for rules violations
  • High Elder
  • ******
  • Posts: 794
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: ROC
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #177 on: January 11, 2020, 04:25:05 AM »
How fast you all are. Some things are/need be treated - or even just realized/comprehend - for years.
- Вы говорите, они вам угрожали?
- Да, сказали "сюда иди".
- Ну, "иди сюда" - это не угроза.
- "Иди сюда" - нет, а "сюда иди" - очень даже.

Online Arachne

  • Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
  • Section Moderator
  • Toumarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,971
  • Race: Human. Culture: Yes.
  • Faith: Cradle Greek Orthodox. Cope.
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese, UK
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #178 on: January 11, 2020, 08:59:41 AM »
Are we to forgive where ~ forgiveness is not wanted ```

Yes.

No one said it would be easy.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

~ bookshelf ~ ugly writing ~ jukebox ~

Offline Ainnir

  • Section Moderator
  • Protokentarchos
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,384
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Parish Priest Behavior and Church Disenchantment
« Reply #179 on: January 11, 2020, 12:17:37 PM »
Are we to forgive where ~ forgiveness is not wanted ```
Forgiveness is about our own disposition, not the other person’s.
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no idea, so there’s that.

Pray for me, a wretched sinner.

Jacob wrestled with God all through the night.  At the break of day, he became Israel.