Author Topic: Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations  (Read 306 times)

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Offline Agabus

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Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations
« on: June 25, 2018, 11:43:53 AM »
By the way, Orthodox and Catholic Christians can both take solace in how relatively good the two confessions have been compared to everyone else on the issue of racism in recent centuries.  Particularly when we consider the largest Protestant denomination in the US, the Southern Baptist Convention, is one of the last remaining “Southern” churches which separated from the Northern part on the issue of slavery.  The other “Southern” churches such as the Methodist Episcopal Church, South, long ago reunited with their Northern half (although the continued existence of the African Methodist Episcopal Church and the African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church, which to be fair are now in full communion with the United Methodist Church, attest to a relative failure on the part of the United Methodists to reach out to other races beyond the narrow confines of White Anglo-Saxon Protestants).

I believe I have encountered more African Americans in the Orthodox Church than I ever even saw in a UMC church.

The SBC issued in 1995 a formal statement of repentance for its role in the promotion and protection of slavery (the denomination officially formed over a disagreement about whether slave owners could be appointed missionaries) and some of its member churches' work against civil rights. Since then, and including this year, several of the annual Conventions have issued statements about race and current events, including denouncing the alt-right and specifically calling for withdrawal of fellowship from anyone who teaches the "curse of Ham" theology.

The SBC church I was baptized in as a boy had more black people in attendance on a regular Sunday than I have met in every Orthodox Church I have ever attended combined.

That said, I don't think I ever met a person of Arabic or Persian descent in a church until I started attending Orthodox liturgies.
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2018, 11:59:54 AM »
It's only fair to point out that the history of the American black church, and protestant missions among African-Americans, is intimately tied to the history of slavery. The Baptist and Methodist missionaries moving through the south and preaching to slave congregations had, to some extent, a captive audience, though the new congregations in time became autonomous and formed their own independent traditions of interpretation.

Not that this leaves Orthodoxy off the hook by any means.
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Offline Sampson

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Re: Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2018, 12:02:13 PM »
For what ever it might be worth, it seems like the various (American) Protestants I've known over the years tend to belong to slightly more racially diverse congregations, while many of the Orthodox churches I've attended seem more ethnically diverse congregations.

That's obviously less of the case in some of the "ethnic enclave" regions where churches can be dominated by specific ethnic groups. But something that's mildly interesting to me.

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Re: Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2018, 12:22:30 PM »
Rember christ wanted to baptize all nations including blacks and Asians, whites, Latinos and Hispanics!
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2018, 12:48:38 PM »
It's only fair to point out that the history of the American black church, and protestant missions among African-Americans, is intimately tied to the history of slavery. The Baptist and Methodist missionaries moving through the south and preaching to slave congregations had, to some extent, a captive audience, though the new congregations in time became autonomous and formed their own independent traditions of interpretation.

Right. The African Methodist Episcopal (and Zion Methodist Episcopal, and Christian -- originally 'Colored' -- Methodist Episcopal, etc.) churches essentially arose out of a pastoral need for black people who affirmed the Methodist credo but could not sit comfortably in churches that did not accept them on a racial basis. It's also worth noting that they are now in full communion with the United Methodist Church, the successor of a number of the various Methodist movements in the U.S.

Same thing was true in Baptist churches.

Interestingly enough, the American Holiness movement, which arose from the Weslyans, and the Pentecostal movement, which followed the Holiness movement, was much more likely to accept people of all races. I wonder what it is about ecstatic experiences that is the great equalizer?
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Offline Orthodox_Slav

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Re: Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2018, 12:49:50 PM »
It's only fair to point out that the history of the American black church, and protestant missions among African-Americans, is intimately tied to the history of slavery. The Baptist and Methodist missionaries moving through the south and preaching to slave congregations had, to some extent, a captive audience, though the new congregations in time became autonomous and formed their own independent traditions of interpretation.

Right. The African Methodist Episcopal (and Zion Methodist Episcopal, and Christian -- originally 'Colored' -- Methodist Episcopal, etc.) churches essentially arose out of a pastoral need for black people who affirmed the Methodist credo but could not sit comfortably in churches that did not accept them on a racial basis. It's also worth noting that they are now in full communion with the United Methodist Church, the successor of a number of the various Methodist movements in the U.S.

Same thing was true in Baptist churches.

Interestingly enough, the American Holiness movement, which arose from the Weslyans, and the Pentecostal movement, which followed the Holiness movement, was much more likely to accept people of all races. I wonder what it is about ecstatic experiences that is the great equalizer?

oh i hate the idea of churches for a specific race its not what God wants!
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Offline Agabus

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Re: Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2018, 12:56:53 PM »
It's only fair to point out that the history of the American black church, and protestant missions among African-Americans, is intimately tied to the history of slavery. The Baptist and Methodist missionaries moving through the south and preaching to slave congregations had, to some extent, a captive audience, though the new congregations in time became autonomous and formed their own independent traditions of interpretation.

Right. The African Methodist Episcopal (and Zion Methodist Episcopal, and Christian -- originally 'Colored' -- Methodist Episcopal, etc.) churches essentially arose out of a pastoral need for black people who affirmed the Methodist credo but could not sit comfortably in churches that did not accept them on a racial basis. It's also worth noting that they are now in full communion with the United Methodist Church, the successor of a number of the various Methodist movements in the U.S.

Same thing was true in Baptist churches.

Interestingly enough, the American Holiness movement, which arose from the Weslyans, and the Pentecostal movement, which followed the Holiness movement, was much more likely to accept people of all races. I wonder what it is about ecstatic experiences that is the great equalizer?

oh i hate the idea of churches for a specific race its not what God wants!

Agreed.

For what it is worth, my brother, who is a pastor in a Baptist-affiliated congregation, has been using his church as a base for people who want to discuss race and how its weaponization has impacted how they understood the Gospel. The effort has apparently borne some fruit.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

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Re: Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2018, 01:38:24 PM »
It's only fair to point out that the history of the American black church, and protestant missions among African-Americans, is intimately tied to the history of slavery. The Baptist and Methodist missionaries moving through the south and preaching to slave congregations had, to some extent, a captive audience, though the new congregations in time became autonomous and formed their own independent traditions of interpretation.

Not that this leaves Orthodoxy off the hook by any means.

I'll go one step further - I would say that African American culture and certain elements that have become largely associated with it (for example, gang-hood, single motherhood, hedonism) as a whole has its origin in Slavery, which makes race-relationships really complicated.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 01:39:21 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2018, 01:45:34 PM »
It's only fair to point out that the history of the American black church, and protestant missions among African-Americans, is intimately tied to the history of slavery. The Baptist and Methodist missionaries moving through the south and preaching to slave congregations had, to some extent, a captive audience, though the new congregations in time became autonomous and formed their own independent traditions of interpretation.

Not that this leaves Orthodoxy off the hook by any means.

I'll go one step further - I would say that African American culture and certain elements that have become largely associated with it (for example, gang-hood, single motherhood, hedonism) as a whole has its origin in Slavery, regurgitate a bunch of stereotypes I learned on TV which makes race-relationships really complicated exemplify the incapacity of most white Americans to engage with black people in a basic human way
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2018, 02:10:56 PM »
I believe the demographics in my parish pretty much reflect the general demographics of Rio: mostly but not massively white (predominant Portuguese with some other ethnicies like Jewish and Arabic as a minority), many mixed, a minority black. I found this very nice when I stopped to think about it.
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2018, 04:12:00 PM »
I believe the demographics in my parish pretty much reflect the general demographics of Rio: mostly but not massively white (predominant Portuguese with some other ethnicies like Jewish and Arabic as a minority), many mixed, a minority black. I found this very nice when I stopped to think about it.

Dang it Rapha, now that annoying Ipanema samba is stuck in my head...   as well as imagery from the classic tragic film Orfeo Negro.  By the way, my best friend is authentically Portuguese and finds the various Brazillianisms I use when I attempt to speak his language, dating from my failed attempt to acquire the Lusitanian tongue, in which several of your countrymen “assisted”, most amusing.
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Re: Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2018, 04:29:35 PM »
It's only fair to point out that the history of the American black church, and protestant missions among African-Americans, is intimately tied to the history of slavery. The Baptist and Methodist missionaries moving through the south and preaching to slave congregations had, to some extent, a captive audience, though the new congregations in time became autonomous and formed their own independent traditions of interpretation.

Not that this leaves Orthodoxy off the hook by any means.

I'll go one step further - I would say that African American culture and certain elements that have become largely associated with it (for example, gang-hood, single motherhood, hedonism) as a whole has its origin in Slavery, regurgitate a bunch of stereotypes I learned on TV which makes race-relationships really complicated exemplify the incapacity of most white Americans to engage with black people in a basic human way

Well, I guess there are clearly no problems of poverty, obesity, or violence in African American communities, because believing that these are problems that don't exist causes them to magically vanish.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 04:30:02 PM by LivenotoneviL »
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May God one day unite me with the Holy Orthodox Catholic Church. And may God forgive me for my consistent sins of the flesh and any blasphemous and carnal desire, as well as forgive me whenever I act prideful, against the desire of Christ.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2018, 05:18:03 PM »
I believe the demographics in my parish pretty much reflect the general demographics of Rio: mostly but not massively white (predominant Portuguese with some other ethnicies like Jewish and Arabic as a minority), many mixed, a minority black. I found this very nice when I stopped to think about it.
Dang it Rapha, now that annoying Ipanema samba is stuck in my head...   as well as imagery from the classic tragic film Orfeo Negro.  By the way, my best friend is authentically Portuguese and finds the various Brazillianisms I use when I attempt to speak his language, dating from my failed attempt to acquire the Lusitanian tongue, in which several of your countrymen “assisted”, most amusing.
lol, the church is actually in Ipanema! Archbishop Chrysostom mentions some Polish monk crossed himself when he said this.

Rio's dialect is more European than the others (which is expectable given it was once the capital of Portugal itself and in the time of my parents more than half of the people were either Portuguese immigrants or their children), so we could teach you to sound more Lusitanian.  :P
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 05:21:10 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

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Re: Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2018, 05:27:19 PM »
I believe the demographics in my parish pretty much reflect the general demographics of Rio: mostly but not massively white (predominant Portuguese with some other ethnicies like Jewish and Arabic as a minority), many mixed, a minority black. I found this very nice when I stopped to think about it.
Dang it Rapha, now that annoying Ipanema samba is stuck in my head...   as well as imagery from the classic tragic film Orfeo Negro.  By the way, my best friend is authentically Portuguese and finds the various Brazillianisms I use when I attempt to speak his language, dating from my failed attempt to acquire the Lusitanian tongue, in which several of your countrymen “assisted”, most amusing.
lol, the church is actually in Ipanema! Archbishop Chrysostom mentions some Polish monk crossed himself when he said this.

Rio's dialect is more European than the others (which is expectable given it was once the capital of Portugal itself and in the time of my parents more than half of the people were either Portuguese immigrants or their children), so we could teach you to sound more Lusitanian.  :P
Rio is on my bucket list of places to visit.  If i find my way there I will be sure to look you up.

Offline Sharbel

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Re: Orthodox and Protestant churches and race relations
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2018, 11:26:07 PM »
For what ever it might be worth, it seems like the various (American) Protestants I've known over the years tend to belong to slightly more racially diverse congregations, while many of the Orthodox churches I've attended seem more ethnically diverse congregations.
Funny, I just see members of one race: the human race.

By the way, my best friend is authentically Portuguese and finds the various Brazillianisms I use when I attempt to speak his language, dating from my failed attempt to acquire the Lusitanian tongue, in which several of your countrymen “assisted”, most amusing.
Rest at ease for speaking the most commonly spoken form of Portuguese.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2018, 11:31:17 PM by Sharbel »
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