Author Topic: English vs. Continental Freemasonry  (Read 293 times)

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Offline Alpha60

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English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« on: June 24, 2018, 08:26:39 PM »
Out of curiosity, in the anti-Masonic polemics of the Church, has any distinction been drawn between the Freemasons affiliated with the United Grand Lodge of England, which requires belief in a supreme being, and which I expect would be directly offensive primarily to Roman Catholics (specifically, the 17th degree of the Scottish Rite in the Southern US and certain other peculiarities proposed by the strange personage of Albert Pike, which do not apply to the York Rite), or the Swedish branch of Freemasonry which is closed to non-Christians, vs. the Freemasons who are affiliated with the Grand Orient of France?   

The latter entity permits atheists, permits political discussions in thenlodges, and has actively rallied support for and promoted the political doctrine of laicete or secularism in France and elsewhere, and the legalisation of homosexual marriage, abortion and so on, whereas the UGLE and Freemasonic entities affiliated with it appear at least superficially to be a bastion of the more conservative (or should I say, classically liberal, vs. the High Toryism of someone like Evelyn Waugh or myself) elements and belief systems of society.

Also, out of curiosity, what prompted the Old Calendarist allegation that Freemasonic influence motivated the adoption of the Revised Julian Calendar?
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2018, 10:56:13 PM »
Also, out of curiosity, what prompted the Old Calendarist allegation that Freemasonic influence motivated the adoption of the Revised Julian Calendar?
Patriarch Athenagoras (anaxios) was a Freemason and a heart-bleeding ecumenist, I'm not sure if there's something objective beyond this or if people just connected the dots and created theories.
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Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2018, 10:59:15 PM »
Also, out of curiosity, what prompted the Old Calendarist allegation that Freemasonic influence motivated the adoption of the Revised Julian Calendar?
If you really want to know, here's their story, written in 1993. Suffice to say they make a case that one particular Freemason (Meletios Metataxis) was made Ecumenical Patriarch through Masonic political intrigue, and then once the damage was done there in 1923 and he was run out of town, became Greek Patriarch of Alexandria as well.
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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2018, 11:22:39 PM »


The latter entity permits atheists, permits political discussions in thenlodges, and has actively rallied support for and promoted the political doctrine of laicete or secularism in France and elsewhere, and the legalisation of homosexual marriage, abortion and so on, whereas the UGLE and Freemasonic entities affiliated with it appear at least superficially to be a bastion of the more conservative (or should I say, classically liberal, vs. the High Toryism of someone like Evelyn Waugh or myself) elements and belief systems of society.

Also, out of curiosity, what prompted the Old Calendarist allegation that Freemasonic influence motivated the adoption of the Revised Julian Calendar?

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Offline Brilko

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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2018, 12:15:51 AM »
Also, out of curiosity, what prompted the Old Calendarist allegation that Freemasonic influence motivated the adoption of the Revised Julian Calendar?
If you really want to know, here's their story, written in 1993. Suffice to say they make a case that one particular Freemason (Meletios Metataxis) was made Ecumenical Patriarch through Masonic political intrigue, and then once the damage was done there in 1923 and he was run out of town, became Greek Patriarch of Alexandria as well.

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Offline platypus

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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2018, 10:42:18 AM »
In my hometown you had to be Protestant to be a mason. Catholics were excluded. They probably hadn't heard of Orthodoxy...

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Offline Iconodule

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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2018, 10:45:58 AM »
Anytime someone with actual experience of Freemasonry reports that it is basically a boring old-boys club for networking and luncheons, the response is, "You weren't a high enough degree to see the real stuff." This is a great argument because there is no way anyone could prove it wrong.
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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2018, 11:13:24 AM »
All cults are satanic!  >:(
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2018, 01:48:34 PM »
Anytime someone with actual experience of Freemasonry reports that it is basically a boring old-boys club for networking and luncheons, the response is, "You weren't a high enough degree to see the real stuff." This is a great argument because there is no way anyone could prove it wrong.
I don't think there's any mystery to it... Freemasons have embraced specific ideologies in given contexts and regions. These thoughts were debated and perpetuated in Masonic lodges. Influential people in every sense (political, cultural, intellectual...), with power to enforce these ideas, have been through Masonic lodges.

Nowadays, the ideal "intellectuals" of Gramsci and William James have taken academic institutions and are now spreading, cultivating and enforcing their own ideas in politics and culture very fast, and they don't even hold political power or media at first, they're just regular professors unless some political force or cultural producer finds them useful/cute/smart and adopts them. Imagine how Freemasons could enforce their ideas as professors, politicians, military and even clergymen were calling each other "brethren".
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 01:49:51 PM by RaphaCam »
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2018, 01:50:56 PM »
Gramsci's ideas have been so thoroughly diluted by his self-appointed heirs- first in the PCI, then in universities around the world- that they are basically unrecognizable now and thoroughly neutered.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2018, 01:57:16 PM »
I'm not talking about "cultural Marxism" here, but rather about his ethics of thought, which has either shaped or predicted how academics act nowadays. His Twelfth Prison Notebook is basically "The Prince" of modern academics.
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline Agabus

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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2018, 02:33:59 PM »
Anytime someone with actual experience of Freemasonry reports that it is basically a boring old-boys club for networking and luncheons, the response is, "You weren't a high enough degree to see the real stuff." This is a great argument because there is no way anyone could prove it wrong.

Someone here (Dominkia, maybe?) once said that in Eastern Europe the Rotarians are considered suspect by some Orthodox, which is funnier than Bro. Billy the Baptist minister and Mason being part of the conspiracy.

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Offline Alpha60

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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2018, 04:38:11 PM »
Anytime someone with actual experience of Freemasonry reports that it is basically a boring old-boys club for networking and luncheons, the response is, "You weren't a high enough degree to see the real stuff." This is a great argument because there is no way anyone could prove it wrong.

Someone here (Dominkia, maybe?) once said that in Eastern Europe the Rotarians are considered suspect by some Orthodox, which is funnier than Bro. Billy the Baptist minister and Mason being part of the conspiracy.

The idea that Rotary is a cult is almost hysterically funny.  Freemasonry in either form has substantial religious content, but Rotary is basically an invitation-only adjunct to the Chamber of Commerce.

A lot of Freemasonry-like groups emerged in the 19th century with Masonic-like ritual, but the actual reason for these entities was to provide life insurance; the idea was that members of these clubs would financially band together to support a brother in distress and his family, or take care of his family if he were killed.   Thus several contemporary life insurance companies like Woodsmen are derived from 19th century fraternal orders (e.g. the International Woodsmen of the World); nearly all of them however abolished their systems of chapters and ritual, and became bland corporate entities.   The ritual in most of these groups could be considered analogous to the largely discontinued Orthodox service of adelphopoesis, in that they were intended to solemnize the joining of a member to a larger extended family of brothers who would care for that member or his wife and children in the event he fell victim to an accident.  For example, your average Woodsman would be joining so that the brotherhood of Woodsmen would care for his family if he, in the process of felling a tree, miscalculated and was squashed, or I suppose, if he worked in a sawmill and was the victim of some gruesome career-ending industrial accident.

Freemasons also took care of each other and indeed take care of each other, as well as former members of Masonic Youth, in this manner, but the raison d’etre behind the creation of Freemasonry in the 18th century had to do primarily with mysticism and philosophical speculation.

This I would observe is in somewhat of a refreshing contrast to the Moose Lodges, which as far as I can tell, despite at one time boasting a ritual evocative of Freemasonry, was organized around the premise of facilitating alcohol consumption on a massive scale (with apologies to any Mooses who might be present).

I think the Elks still have some stylized ritual, but not as much as Masonry, and they are more interested in recreation and lively dinners, and less in playing around with swords and blindfolds and memorizing long winded speeches.  The Freemasons always tended to be the most exclusive group due to the power of the Black Ball system of voting, which demands universal approval of new members.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2018, 04:44:12 PM »
Anytime someone with actual experience of Freemasonry reports that it is basically a boring old-boys club for networking and luncheons, the response is, "You weren't a high enough degree to see the real stuff." This is a great argument because there is no way anyone could prove it wrong.

+1

For the most part, I think this is right.  All of the really offensive aspects of their ritual, like the bloody oathes, and the Papal tiara trampling, have been leaked over the years by multiple anonymous sources; recently UGLE disclosed the Masonic handshake (which was notably different from the DeMolay one, I noticed).

The only lodge where massive abuses of power occurred was the infamous P2 lodge in Rome, which basically became a racketeering group.  It had started as a legitimate part of the French style atheistic Freemasonry in Continental Europe but at some point prior to its members being involved in the Vatican Bank scandal and several murders, possibly even of Pope John Paul I, it had been designated irregular, and at some point if memory serves the Italian security services infilitrated it, facilitating the eventual prosecutions.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Alpha60

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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2018, 04:54:28 PM »
Anytime someone with actual experience of Freemasonry reports that it is basically a boring old-boys club for networking and luncheons, the response is, "You weren't a high enough degree to see the real stuff." This is a great argument because there is no way anyone could prove it wrong.

I should add that Freemasonry is probably worthless for any kind of serious corporate level networking; executives of larger companies simply don’t have time for all of the ritual nonsense and are more likely to be found in industry-specific forums.  Even then, there are a great many of those where the average attendee is extremely low level or a vendor; the top brass of larger companies tend to have their own private spaces for networking which are far more exclusive (some country clubs, or organizations like the fabled Bohemian Grove, which itself is, by the way of a disturbing religious context incompatible with our faith). 

The Orthodox Church I believe should move to suppress these organizations in the Orthodox lands by reintroducing Adelphopoesis in all places where it has fallen into abeyance, and by promulgating codes of ethics for contemporary businesses, and furnishing venues where people who agree with these principles can interact, thus rendering entities like the private clubs of London, the country clubs of the US, the Bohemian Grove, Rotary, and so on, devoid of purpose, and securing increased devotion.

I have heard it said that Russian Old Believers historically were skilled in business and survived as a community largely by trading with each other and developing some leverage in the nascent industrial sector of the Czarist regime.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2018, 05:48:32 PM »
Well, we have AHEPA in the USA for GOARCH members (not just Greeks, if you're ok with promoting Hellenism and get an invite even Poles can get recruited  ;D) , so that's a start.

I think the Antiochians have the Order of St. Ignatius as something similar as well.

Both a bit like the Knights of Columbus, founded by Catholics as a direct counter to Freemasonry. That and, yes, provide life insurance  ;)
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Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2018, 06:03:33 PM »
Quote
Ganandorf seems to have defeated your Link. All of Hyrule is in mourning.
Clearly the Masons didnt want you to read that article.http://orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/photii_1.aspx
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Re: English vs. Continental Freemasonry
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2018, 07:49:46 PM »
Anytime someone with actual experience of Freemasonry reports that it is basically a boring old-boys club for networking and luncheons, the response is, "You weren't a high enough degree to see the real stuff." This is a great argument because there is no way anyone could prove it wrong.

Someone here (Dominkia, maybe?) once said that in Eastern Europe the Rotarians are considered suspect by some Orthodox, which is funnier than Bro. Billy the Baptist minister and Mason being part of the conspiracy.

Yes, that was me. I think I even gave an example of one of the Polish Orthodox bishops that's supported by them and it's perceived as something wrong (and he's probably after the metropolitan the richest hierarch there).
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