Author Topic: baptism certificates - is it necessary?  (Read 391 times)

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Offline OrthoDisco

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baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« on: June 24, 2018, 12:02:11 PM »
My family and I were baptised over 3 years ago. We were told we'd get certificates, and the priest has been reminded before, but we've still received nothing. I don't know that we'll ever get anything. (we weren't the only family this happened to.)
My question is a cert necessary to have? Such as if I move away, which may happen in near future. I guess I want to know how persistent I should be with this, if at all. I don't want to make an issue if I don't need to. But I want to make sure that when I move and need to attend a church in another jurisdiction there will be no problems. Is it usually a problem when you don't have certificates?
Thanks.

Offline Orthodox_Slav

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2018, 12:20:45 PM »
don't feel like its necessary
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Offline Dominika

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2018, 12:38:19 PM »
It is needed, especially if you die and the parish priest is another one (pretty possible), you change parish etc. It's a basic document.
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Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2018, 12:56:53 PM »
Yes, yes, it is very necessary.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 01:03:47 PM by IreneOlinyk »

Offline IreneOlinyk

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2018, 01:00:36 PM »
Yes, yes, it is very necessary.  For example, for your children: in the future they will have to produce a baptismal certificate if they want to get married in the Orthodox Church.  If you or your adult children move to another city & want to transfer your church membership. Also for church funerals.

The Orthodox Church is big on keeping records and paper is important. 
Our priests now have to send a scan of the baptismal certificates, marriage certificates  to our jurisdiction consistory headquarters. 
In my jurisdiction if you loose your baptismal or marriage certificate you can get a duplicate copy of the certificate from the consistory  for $25.
Maybe your priest is just behind in his paperwork: gently remind him.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2018, 01:33:45 PM »
I didn't know this was important, maybe I should ask my priest. I gave my personal data to a lady of the council after I was chrismated, though, so it's well-registered.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 01:33:57 PM by RaphaCam »
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Offline Arachne

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2018, 01:50:29 PM »
As others have said, a baptismal certificate is necessary to prove you are Orthodox further afield than your parish. Also, if there are considerations of sending children to Catholic schools, a certificate can improve their chances of being accepted. (At least in the UK, where such schools are both few and non-fee-paying, it is practically impossible to get in without proof of baptism; an Orthodox certificate puts a candidate in the second eligibility tier, just behind Catholic kids.)
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Offline Orthodox_Slav

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2018, 02:13:06 PM »
i have never heard of a baptism certificate!
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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2018, 02:21:43 PM »
Important? Depends on who you run into. For most sane people, in most normal situations, it'll be enough if you have the word of a priest in good standing. Things do get, um, messed up though. There is apparently no record of me getting christmated by the Antiochians for example (I've contacted both the parish and the HQ or whatever, neither were able to find anything). *shrugs* If I went to Athos, even if I showed them my Catholic baptismal certificate (which I have) and could somehow produce documentation of my christmation, they still wouldn't commune me (or some of them wouldn't, anyway, I don't know if they're all like that). So, again: depends on the who and what for.

Offline hecma925

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2018, 04:11:28 PM »
Is there a mass amount of people being received into the Orthodox Church via your parish that there is a backlog?  Well, glory to God!

Otherwise, I'm not sure what your priest's excuse is.  It seriously takes 15 minutes to do.  Hopefully, he has put you in the parish registry at least.
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Offline OrthoDisco

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2018, 05:35:23 PM »
ok. These responses were very helpful. And yes, he was reminded last year. I guess it's  time to do it again.

@hecma - Mass amounts? I wouldn't say that. However, at this point there really will be a backlog. I find it interesting that he makes efforts to ensure our financial commitments are made, but this issue is just let slide. I wonder if there is an official record for us, minus the cert. I had not thought of that, so I will check.

@orthodox_slav - Perhaps its not a big deal where you are because its an Orthodox country? And its assumed most people are baptised into the church? Interesting though.

Offline Dominika

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2018, 05:50:59 PM »
@orthodox_slav - Perhaps its not a big deal where you are because its an Orthodox country? And its assumed most people are baptised into the church? Interesting though.
I think it doesn't matter. In Poland both Catholics and Orthodox demand it.
It has played also an important role in our history (find ancestors, find people after war etc, keep indentity etc.)
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Offline Arachne

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2018, 05:58:21 PM »
@orthodox_slav - Perhaps its not a big deal where you are because its an Orthodox country? And its assumed most people are baptised into the church? Interesting though.
I think it doesn't matter. In Poland both Catholics and Orthodox demand it.
It has played also an important role in our history (find ancestors, find people after war etc, keep indentity etc.)

In Greece, until very recently, baptism was the only way to acquire a legal name. So a baptism certificate was, essentially, their first identity document - proof they existed. (Before you ask, the birth certificate only states the newborn's sex and parents' names; the legal name is registered after baptism or, now, civil naming ceremony.)
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Offline Dominika

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2018, 06:11:17 PM »
@orthodox_slav - Perhaps its not a big deal where you are because its an Orthodox country? And its assumed most people are baptised into the church? Interesting though.
I think it doesn't matter. In Poland both Catholics and Orthodox demand it.
It has played also an important role in our history (find ancestors, find people after war etc, keep indentity etc.)

In Greece, until very recently, baptism was the only way to acquire a legal name. So a baptism certificate was, essentially, their first identity document - proof they existed. (Before you ask, the birth certificate only states the newborn's sex and parents' names; the legal name is registered after baptism or, now, civil naming ceremony.)
I see, interesting. In Poland baptism certificates are useful for the second name if you've got it at baptism (it applies again, to both Catholics and Orthodox). I think in case of loosing any other documents (it may happen for various reasons) such certificate, or at least being registered in a parish, can be very helpful.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2018, 06:20:38 PM »
In Greece, until very recently, baptism was the only way to acquire a legal name. So a baptism certificate was, essentially, their first identity document - proof they existed. (Before you ask, the birth certificate only states the newborn's sex and parents' names; the legal name is registered after baptism or, now, civil naming ceremony.)
Interesting, how recent is this civil naming ceremony? How did the non-Orthodox manage to get a name for their kids? Here civil registry was stabilished in 1888 as part of a series of concessions to positivists in attempts to save the crown.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 06:23:20 PM by RaphaCam »
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Offline Arachne

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2018, 07:50:12 PM »
In Greece, until very recently, baptism was the only way to acquire a legal name. So a baptism certificate was, essentially, their first identity document - proof they existed. (Before you ask, the birth certificate only states the newborn's sex and parents' names; the legal name is registered after baptism or, now, civil naming ceremony.)
Interesting, how recent is this civil naming ceremony? How did the non-Orthodox manage to get a name for their kids? Here civil registry was stabilished in 1888 as part of a series of concessions to positivists in attempts to save the crown.

Since 2006, I believe. Until then, the name was added to the birth certificate by depositing the baptism certificate with the registrar. Since then, the name-giving and the baptism registering are two different processes. One can even keep a baptism unregistered, if they don't want their religious affiliation on the state books.

The non-Orthodox, until very recently, were mostly Catholic, so no problem with their own baptism certificates there. The non-Christian, like the Muslim minority in Thrace or the scant handful of Jews that made it back from the camps, have their own naming conventions, which were acceptable in local registries. Others would be forced to go through the religious ceremony, even without conviction, which is pretty much why civil name-giving became a thing.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 07:54:05 PM by Arachne »
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Offline Brilko

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2018, 08:05:25 PM »
ok. These responses were very helpful. And yes, he was reminded last year. I guess it's  time to do it again.

@hecma - Mass amounts? I wouldn't say that. However, at this point there really will be a backlog. I find it interesting that he makes efforts to ensure our financial commitments are made, but this issue is just let slide. I wonder if there is an official record for us, minus the cert. I had not thought of that, so I will check.

@orthodox_slav - Perhaps its not a big deal where you are because its an Orthodox country? And its assumed most people are baptised into the church? Interesting though.

Tell your priest that Steve Dahl is Orthodox (probably not true) but retains his fervent hatred of disco (might be true). That he is threatening to burn you in Comiskey Park unless you prove that you are OrthoDisco rather than merely Disco.

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2018, 08:16:06 PM »
I needed my baptismal certificate when I was married.  I was baptized at a different church and lost it when I was younger. So I had to contact the church and get a copy of it before being married. They said it was a must.

Offline hecma925

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2018, 08:22:18 PM »
ok. These responses were very helpful. And yes, he was reminded last year. I guess it's  time to do it again.

@hecma - Mass amounts? I wouldn't say that. However, at this point there really will be a backlog. I find it interesting that he makes efforts to ensure our financial commitments are made, but this issue is just let slide. I wonder if there is an official record for us, minus the cert. I had not thought of that, so I will check.

Record-keeping is just as important as paying the bills.
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Offline OrthoDisco

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2018, 01:57:48 AM »
ok. These responses were very helpful. And yes, he was reminded last year. I guess it's  time to do it again.

@hecma - Mass amounts? I wouldn't say that. However, at this point there really will be a backlog. I find it interesting that he makes efforts to ensure our financial commitments are made, but this issue is just let slide. I wonder if there is an official record for us, minus the cert. I had not thought of that, so I will check.

@orthodox_slav - Perhaps its not a big deal where you are because its an Orthodox country? And its assumed most people are baptised into the church? Interesting though.

Tell your priest that Steve Dahl is Orthodox (probably not true) but retains his fervent hatred of disco (might be true). That he is threatening to burn you in Comiskey Park unless you prove that you are OrthoDisco rather than merely Disco.

My disco is best disco.
But since I had no idea what you were actually talking about, I harnessed the power of google with my leet button combinations:
#Disco_Demolition_Night
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2018, 10:33:23 AM »
ok. These responses were very helpful. And yes, he was reminded last year. I guess it's  time to do it again.

@hecma - Mass amounts? I wouldn't say that. However, at this point there really will be a backlog. I find it interesting that he makes efforts to ensure our financial commitments are made, but this issue is just let slide. I wonder if there is an official record for us, minus the cert. I had not thought of that, so I will check.

Record-keeping is just as important as paying the bills.


 There should have been a moment after the service  when you and your godparents signed a book....Metrical record....every parish -should- have one....

I got my actual certificate a year and something later...but knew that if i needed proof, the parish could oblige via  the record...
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2018, 11:01:48 AM »
I've never had to produce my certificate for any reason- including communing at various places where no one knew me. But I feel better knowing that I have it somewhere. Maybe lean on the parish president/ secretary to get it. If someone else can draw up the certificate, and all the priest has to do is sign it, that might make it happen faster.
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2018, 11:05:52 AM »
I've never had to produce my certificate for any reason- including communing at various places where no one knew me. But I feel better knowing that I have it somewhere. Maybe lean on the parish president/ secretary to get it. If someone else can draw up the certificate, and all the priest has to do is sign it, that might make it happen faster.


Mine is framed....which made my priest laugh when he came for my first house blessing.....but framed i know where it is.....otherwise its just paperwork and I -suck- at paperwork
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Re: baptism certificates - is it necessary?
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2018, 11:19:43 AM »
My family and I were baptised over 3 years ago. We were told we'd get certificates, and the priest has been reminded before, but we've still received nothing. I don't know that we'll ever get anything. (we weren't the only family this happened to.)
My question is a cert necessary to have? Such as if I move away, which may happen in near future. I guess I want to know how persistent I should be with this, if at all. I don't want to make an issue if I don't need to. But I want to make sure that when I move and need to attend a church in another jurisdiction there will be no problems. Is it usually a problem when you don't have certificates?
Thanks.

In my family, only five of the seven have baptismal certificates. Four of us were baptized at the same time and everyone else got one, so I guess Englewood just doesn't like me. And I guess Syosset later had a problem with my daughter.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2018, 11:21:38 AM by Agabus »
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