Author Topic: Liturgical verbage?  (Read 664 times)

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Offline Nicholas_83

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Liturgical verbage?
« on: June 18, 2018, 06:41:43 PM »
Catholic priests (only Latin Rite?) 'say the Mass.' Do Orthodox priests say the Liturgy? Serve the Liturgy? Pray the Liturgy? Does the verbage vary between Oriental and Eastern Orthodox? Between the national churches?

Offline augustin717

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Re: Liturgical verbage?
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2018, 06:44:47 PM »
In Romanian they ‘do’ the liturgy (mist common), or ‘serve ‘ it ( more bookish).
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Liturgical verbage?
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2018, 06:53:20 PM »
Celebrate the Liturgy.
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Offline JTLoganville

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Re: Liturgical verbage?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2018, 07:31:26 PM »
Greek and Antiochian Orthodox say "serve the Liturgy".

Offline Dominika

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Re: Liturgical verbage?
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2018, 08:15:20 PM »
Polish Orthodox: serve ("służyć")/celebrate ("celebrować")/"sprawować" (something between "do" and "serve"); Polish Catholic say "celebrate" (celebrować) or "odprawiać", it's something between "do" and "celebrate"
Serbian: serve (служити)/preside (началствовати)
Arabic: serve خدم
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Liturgical verbage?
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2018, 10:39:42 PM »
I only hear "to celebrate the Liturgy" ("celebrar a Liturgia") in Portuguese among Orthodox Christians (apart from Antiochians, who tend to use Western wording more often), but "to pray the Mass" ("rezar a Missa") seems to be more frequent among Roman Catholics.
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Offline iohanne

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Re: Liturgical verbage?
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2018, 05:40:50 AM »
It was also common for lay folk to "hear Mass."

Offline Arachne

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Re: Liturgical verbage?
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2018, 08:14:00 AM »
In Greek, the word for liturgy (λειτουργία) means literally 'function'. So, speaking colloquially, the priest 'functions' (λειτουργεί) and the congregation 'is functioned' (λειτουργείται). More formally, like in writing or the media, the priest 'performs the liturgy' (τελεί λειτουργία)/the liturgy 'is performed' (λειτουργία τελείται) and the congregation 'is present' (παρίσταται).
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Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Liturgical verbage?
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2018, 04:41:42 PM »
In Russian (and Ukrainian), they say "serve the Liturgy/Vigil/etc." (Служить Литургию/Служити Литургію).

Offline Alpo

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Re: Liturgical verbage?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2018, 05:07:27 PM »
Finnish equivalent would be "toimittaa liturgia". "Toimittaa" means basically "to act" or "to do". I assume this wording is a loan from Lutherans as they came up with Finnish religious vocabulary before we did.

Btw, IIRC Catholic Finnish version is "viettää messua" which is more akin to "celebrate a mass". I guess that would be a translation from a Catholic language instead of just loaning vocabulary from Lutherans. They are an immigrant church in Finland after all.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2018, 05:09:56 PM by Alpo »
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline Alpha60

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Re: Liturgical verbage?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2018, 02:52:40 PM »
It was also common for lay folk to "hear Mass."

A lot of Catholic writers in the traditional Latin mass category speak of altar boys “serving mass,” the priest “saying mass,” and the laity “assisting at mass.”  Needless to say this is rather confusing; I get the priest saying mass, but one would expect the sacred ministers (deacons, subdeacons) to “serve mass”, the altar boys and choir “assisting” and the laity “attending” or “hearing.”

One thing that profoundly annoys me are liturgical texts, largely dating from the 1970s, in Anglicanism and Catholicism, which refer to the principle celebrant or priest as the “liturgical president” or “president,” and which go out of their way to avoid referring to the celebrant or other clergy as priests.  One of the most annoying examples of this is found in the otherwise interesting book Liturgical Reform After Vatican II: The Impact on Eastern Orthodoxy.

Some members of this site have erroneously fingered me as a proponent of liturgical innovation (my only desire is to recover that which has fallen out of use without disrupting existing liturgies, and with the feedback I have received from various members of OCNet I have progressively refined this theory with the objective of restoring these services without the laity at any existing parish attending any existing service noticing.  If you want to see someone calling for sweeping liturgical innovation, the aforementioned book is a veritable catalogue of it, particularly with regards to its glowing praise of New Skete and its anomalous approach to the liturgy (which by the way, I don’t object to in the context of New Skete; I first began to think about the liturgy and the limits of reform, change and modernization in response to a position paper they published as an ideal for Orthodox worship in general, which shocked me to the point where I fully expect my hair ascended to assume an Einsteinian degree of protrusion; fortunately it did not turn white).

This takes us to another realm of Liturgiological verbiage, that being the following terms to refer to change, which tend to be selected by whoever wants to make the change based on their audience and how traditional they are.  I shall order them from conservative to radical:

- Preserving sacred tradition
- Faithful custodianship
- Interior participation
- Organic development
- Linguistic refinement
- Liturgical enrichment
- Nurturing a living tradition
- Liturgical edification
- Lay engagement
- Congregational participation
- Demonstrating relevance
- Restoring active participation
- Community engagement
- Situational adaptation
- Dynamic equivalence
- Liturgical renewal
- Participatory experiences
- Vibrant communities
- Modernization
- Inclusive worship
- Reimagining (theology, worship, liturgy)
- “Hacking Christianity”*

The further down we move on that list, typically we find ourselves looking at smaller and smaller congregations in larger and grander and evermore empty churches; the people are increasingly elderly and are basically there out of habit, but try to ignore/no longer pay attention to whatever nightmarish nonsense streams from the lips of the “liturgical president.”  There are very few successful liberal liturgical churches that remain nominally Christian, and these tend to be weird, isolated, one-off urban congregations like the infamous St. Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church in San Francisco, or essentially apostate congregations like Ebenezer Lutheran Church aka “herchurch” (ELCA).  I suspect that bizarre spiritist church in Bucharest with the iconostasis covered with weird black and white line drawings might fall into this group.

*This is the name of an actual blog published by a UMC “Elder” (Presbyter, commonly called a “Minister”).  The name is appropriate in the sense of “doing violence to.”