Author Topic: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox  (Read 1065 times)

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Offline PorphyriosK

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One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« on: June 11, 2018, 11:39:59 PM »
As a Roman Catholic feeling in my heart and intellect that I want to be fully Orthodox, there is one primary mental hurdle I'm trying to cross to achieve total acceptance.  It's this question: The early Church was swift in calling Councils to address all the heresies that would surface throughout Christendom to protect the faithful from going astray.  If the Roman Church is in grave error and has led millions astray for centuries, why has the Orthodox Church not held an Ecumenical Council solemnly refuting all the errors of the RC? 

It may come across as a simplistic and silly question, but I honestly don't know the answer.

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2018, 01:29:42 AM »
A helpful starting point, though not a direct answer:

« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 01:29:51 AM by NicholasMyra »
Quote from: Fr. Thomas Hopko, dystopian parable of the prodigal son
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2018, 02:33:22 AM »
The Pan-Orthodox Council of 1583 (which NicholasMyra's pic skipped) specifically dealt with Roman Catholic errors. Sounds like a too long way from the schism, but this was when all hopes of reunion were shattered and Roman Catholic influence was explicitly gaining space among Orthodox hierarchy. I can't recall of any other, but clear and probably intentional disagreements with Roman Catholic theology were expressed in the 1672 Council of Jerusalem (which was convened to deal with Protestantism) and Constantinople also condemned the Roman Catholic Church in a 1895 synod restricted to the Church of Constantinople.

Also, it's thinkable that the fact the separation between Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism was geographically marked for centuries would make bishops be less worried.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 02:35:32 AM by RaphaCam »
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Offline PorphyriosK

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2018, 07:35:08 AM »
Good replies everyone, thank you.  I was also reading last night the thoughts of St. Mark of Ephesus on the schism, who seemed to think that an overly harsh stance should not be taken so that the possibility of return and true reunion could be left open.  He also said this: 

"Our Head, Christ our God... does not tolerate that the bond of love be taken from us entirely."


Offline CarolS

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2018, 02:54:35 PM »
It is my understanding that the Ecumenical Councils were held to make things clear when there was dissension and heresy *within* the Church. 
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Offline Vanhyo

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2018, 02:58:31 PM »
1923 was a pirate gathering and 2016 was a bandit party - not true councils for sure.

It is my understanding that the Ecumenical Councils were held to make things clear when there was dissension and heresy *within* the Church.
ecumenical=imperial, that is why 880 and 1351 technically the last ecumenical councils (within the roman empire), after the fall of the roman empire the councils are sometimes called pan orthodox.

Does this help ?
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 03:08:05 PM by Vanhyo »

Offline PorphyriosK

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2018, 05:32:09 PM »
Yes, thanks Vanhyo and Carol, I appreciate it.

All of these answers have been helpful, thanks everyone.

Offline Sharbel

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2018, 07:19:27 PM »
The early Church was swift in calling Councils to address all the heresies that would surface throughout Christendom to protect the faithful from going astray.  If the Roman Church is in grave error and has led millions astray for centuries, why has the Orthodox Church not held an Ecumenical Council solemnly refuting all the errors of the RC?

What happened in 1054 was the breaking of communion between the Churches.  Neither the first, nor the last time by either Church.  The doctrinal divergences got deeper long after then.  However, the faithful Orthodox were then quite unaware and unaffected by them.  That was a situation very different from those that brought about the Ecumenical Councils.
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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2018, 09:29:22 PM »
1923 was a pirate gathering and 2016 was a bandit party - not true councils for sure.

LOL.  “For sure”!
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Offline Iconodule

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2018, 04:52:59 AM »
1923 was a pirate gathering and 2016 was a bandit party - not true councils for sure.

LOL.  “For sure”!

He really makes them sound like a swingin’ time. “Hey come to Crete, we’re having a pirate party.” “Cool, I’m bringing my parrot and coconut rum.” *arrives in Crete, gets seated at conference table, handed binder of documents to review and sign along with bottle of spring water and commemorative pin, dies inside*
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2018, 06:23:10 AM »
I wish there were pirates in the 1923 council instead of patriarchs...
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Offline PorphyriosK

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2018, 11:58:53 AM »
To everyone, I'm posting this on both of the threads I started recently:

This may seem like a dramatic turnaround, but I've decided for certain to remain in the faith of my baptism, in communion with Rome.  As I said before, I identify very strongly in every way with Eastern Orthodox spirituality and theology.  I can't fully explain why I believe God wants me to remain where I am.  It seems as though under the surface He is in the midst of accomplishing something extraordinary in the West that we can't yet comprehend, even as we see the edifices crumbling around us.  Things are shifting and in flux and it's hard to see what the final outcome will be, but "jumping ship" (as another poster stated) is not an answer and is not a decision that my conscience will allow me to make in this time of crisis.  I believe God will make it very clear to me if I'm in any way mistaken as I try to follow His holy will.  In the meantime, I continue to pray fervently for the reunion of our churches.  Thank you all for your kindness and your wisdom and openness to discussion.

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2018, 01:00:13 PM »
Just make sure that your decision isn't based on sentimental attachment and is based on actual reason.

If your only reason was to avoid the problems of Rome, than you would be mistaken thinking the Orthodox Church is free of problems - your interest in Orthodoxy should be motivated by the desire to know the Truth, not to avoid difficult circumstances.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 01:02:11 PM by LivenotoneviL »
I'm done.

Offline Orthodox_Slav

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2018, 01:11:39 PM »
To everyone, I'm posting this on both of the threads I started recently:

This may seem like a dramatic turnaround, but I've decided for certain to remain in the faith of my baptism, in communion with Rome.  As I said before, I identify very strongly in every way with Eastern Orthodox spirituality and theology.  I can't fully explain why I believe God wants me to remain where I am.  It seems as though under the surface He is in the midst of accomplishing something extraordinary in the West that we can't yet comprehend, even as we see the edifices crumbling around us.  Things are shifting and in flux and it's hard to see what the final outcome will be, but "jumping ship" (as another poster stated) is not an answer and is not a decision that my conscience will allow me to make in this time of crisis.  I believe God will make it very clear to me if I'm in any way mistaken as I try to follow His holy will.  In the meantime, I continue to pray fervently for the reunion of our churches.  Thank you all for your kindness and your wisdom and openness to discussion.

Just make sure that your decision isn't based on an attachment to the faith you grew up with!
your interest in Orthodoxy should be motivated by the desire to know the Truth
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Offline Agabus

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2018, 03:27:20 PM »
To everyone, I'm posting this on both of the threads I started recently:

This may seem like a dramatic turnaround, but I've decided for certain to remain in the faith of my baptism, in communion with Rome.  As I said before, I identify very strongly in every way with Eastern Orthodox spirituality and theology.  I can't fully explain why I believe God wants me to remain where I am.  It seems as though under the surface He is in the midst of accomplishing something extraordinary in the West that we can't yet comprehend, even as we see the edifices crumbling around us.  Things are shifting and in flux and it's hard to see what the final outcome will be, but "jumping ship" (as another poster stated) is not an answer and is not a decision that my conscience will allow me to make in this time of crisis.  I believe God will make it very clear to me if I'm in any way mistaken as I try to follow His holy will.  In the meantime, I continue to pray fervently for the reunion of our churches.  Thank you all for your kindness and your wisdom and openness to discussion.

If you truly believe that is where God would have you, then stay. But the whole east-west division is silly. Orthodoxy is as much in the west as anything else at this point, and "the West" is the entire developed world.

Follow Christ. He will lead you home.

Peace be with you.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2018, 03:28:02 PM by Agabus »
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Offline PorphyriosK

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2018, 05:06:39 PM »
Thanks to all for your prayers and support.  This is by no means easy.  I don't even want to be on one side vs. the other.  I just want East and West to be one again, period.

Offline LivenotoneviL

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2018, 05:15:23 PM »
One more thing - be sure that you talk to priests in both churches. As the old saying goes, "anybody who has himself for a teacher has a fool for a disciple."
I'm done.

Offline PorphyriosK

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #17 on: June 18, 2018, 05:18:54 PM »
Good advice Livenot, thank you.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2018, 10:21:21 PM »
Well, I hope you stay around, though.
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Offline Orthodox_Slav

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2018, 10:56:28 AM »
I also hope you stay around! PorphyriosK
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Offline PorphyriosK

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2018, 08:04:04 PM »
Thank you, I'm sure I will!

Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2018, 11:45:19 PM »
I wish there were pirates in the 1923 council instead of patriarchs...
Pirates for patriarchs would make the canons more entertaining to read: 'If any scurvy dog says there be any other ship of Christians than the Orthodox ship, let him walk the plank!"
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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2018, 11:53:19 PM »
Pirates for patriarchs would make the canons more entertaining to read: 'If any scurvy dog says there be any other ship of Christians than the Orthodox ship, let him walk the plank!"
😂
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2018, 01:33:27 AM »
I wish there were pirates in the 1923 council instead of patriarchs...
Pirates for patriarchs would make the canons more entertaining to read: 'If any scurvy dog says there be any other ship of Christians than the Orthodox ship, let him walk the plank!"
This put the "ark of salvation" theme into a new perspective, eh...  :laugh:
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Offline Alpha60

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2018, 10:04:09 PM »
I wish there were pirates in the 1923 council instead of patriarchs...
Pirates for patriarchs would make the canons more entertaining to read: 'If any scurvy dog says there be any other ship of Christians than the Orthodox ship, let him walk the plank!"
This put the "ark of salvation" theme into a new perspective, eh...  :laugh:

It is interesting to note in this context that Davy Jones was a nautical euphemism for the devil, amd his Locker is most obviously Hell.
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Offline Brilko

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2018, 10:55:32 PM »
I wish there were pirates in the 1923 council instead of patriarchs...
Pirates for patriarchs would make the canons more entertaining to read: 'If any scurvy dog says there be any other ship of Christians than the Orthodox ship, let him walk the plank!"
This put the "ark of salvation" theme into a new perspective, eh...  :laugh:

It is interesting to note in this context that Davy Jones was a nautical euphemism for the devil, amd his Locker is most obviously Hell.
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Offline RaphaCam

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Re: One last mental hurdle before I'm fully Orthodox
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2018, 11:19:45 PM »
It is interesting to note in this context that Davy Jones was a nautical euphemism for the devil, amd his Locker is most obviously Hell.
Wow, never thought about it that way.
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