Author Topic: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage  (Read 11521 times)

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Online Antonis

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2018, 07:37:51 PM »
Well, the same church that says that homossexuality is deviant and sinful says the same about suicide, so if a gay person really believes in the church's teachings should not commit neither of those sins aforementioned.
This is the sort of characterization we must avoid—while stills upholding saving Church teaching—if we are to truly minister to the suffering.

Comparing their relationships to a man humping a pillow is probably not a good tack, either.
Think a little bit more about the implications of your reasoning, Volnutt. That’s what I’m driving at, not this or that unsanctioned relationship.

There’s all sorts of mental furniture that has been picked up and dropped off at the proverbial Goodwill. Committed incestual relationships, committed erastes/eromenos relationships, etc.
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Offline augustin717

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2018, 08:16:44 PM »
I am amazed at how well the metropolitan can argue from sentimentalism!
and yet you could still teach him a thing or two about sentimentalism.

Says the one who quit the Church over homosexual rights,  and alleged corruption, you expected the Romanian Church to conform to your views?
hA! I’ll still get drunk with a few priests and if need be can make arrangements z. They don’t seem to care what I believe.
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2018, 08:18:30 PM »
Well, the same church that says that homossexuality is deviant and sinful says the same about suicide, so if a gay person really believes in the church's teachings should not commit neither of those sins aforementioned.
This is the sort of characterization we must avoid—while stills upholding saving Church teaching—if we are to truly minister to the suffering.

Comparing their relationships to a man humping a pillow is probably not a good tack, either.
Think a little bit more about the implications of your reasoning, Volnutt. That’s what I’m driving at, not this or that unsanctioned relationship.

There’s all sorts of mental furniture that has been picked up and dropped off at the proverbial Goodwill. Committed incestual relationships, committed erastes/eromenos relationships, etc.

The difference is that incest, affairs, etc. at least have alternatives (what we would call pedophilia/ephebophilia is not a like case since it runs into the whole "minors consenting to sex with adults" thing). Facts are, homosexuality is not a choice and not every gay person is capable of celibacy. What kind of a God puts one of his followers into that sort of double bind (see 1 Cor. 10:13) when there's a loving, consensual alternative?

Unless He doesn't, and the incongruities are meant to tell us something.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2018, 10:17:12 PM »
The difference is that incest, affairs, etc. at least have alternatives...

How so?  If I want to have sex with my sister, having sex with someone else’s sister (as nice an experience as it may be for the latter) just isn’t going to cut it for me.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2018, 10:27:19 PM »
The difference is that incest, affairs, etc. at least have alternatives...

How so?  If I want to have sex with my sister, having sex with someone else’s sister (as nice an experience as it may be for the latter) just isn’t going to cut it for me.

Yes, but you can have sex with some other woman, even if it's a little disappointing. A gay person has three choices- celibacy, castration, or hell.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline juliogb

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #50 on: June 13, 2018, 10:28:27 PM »
I don't agree with this idea that celibacy is some sort of moon rock that only happens in one every 120 million people, with discipline, prayer, confession, fasting, avoiding potential sinful circumstances and the precious help of the Holy Spirit one can be a celibate, remember this verse bellow:

13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

1 Cor 10:13





Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #51 on: June 13, 2018, 10:36:06 PM »
The difference is that incest, affairs, etc. at least have alternatives...

How so?  If I want to have sex with my sister, having sex with someone else’s sister (as nice an experience as it may be for the latter) just isn’t going to cut it for me.

Yes, but you can have sex with some other woman, even if it's a little disappointing. A gay person has three choices- celibacy, castration, or hell.

That’s stupid.  Homosexuals *can* have sex with people of the opposite sex, “even if it’s a little disappointing”.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #52 on: June 13, 2018, 10:37:08 PM »
I don't agree with this idea that celibacy is some sort of moon rock that only happens in one every 120 million people, with discipline, prayer, confession, fasting, avoiding potential sinful circumstances and the precious help of the Holy Spirit one can be a celibate

Spoken like someone who's never had adversity in his life.

And apparently not, according to Paul.

Quote from: 1 Cor 7:6-9
Now as a concession, not a command, I say this. I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

If celibacy really were available to all, then I would think that God would have commanded it.

Now, if you want to argue that everybody who is gay somehow also has the gift to balance it out, then fine. But common experience would seem to be against you.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 10:42:19 PM by Volnutt »
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #53 on: June 13, 2018, 10:37:47 PM »
The difference is that incest, affairs, etc. at least have alternatives...

How so?  If I want to have sex with my sister, having sex with someone else’s sister (as nice an experience as it may be for the latter) just isn’t going to cut it for me.

Yes, but you can have sex with some other woman, even if it's a little disappointing. A gay person has three choices- celibacy, castration, or hell.

That’s stupid.  Homosexuals *can* have sex with people of the opposite sex, “even if it’s a little disappointing”.

+1
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Offline Volnutt

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2018, 10:40:38 PM »
The difference is that incest, affairs, etc. at least have alternatives...

How so?  If I want to have sex with my sister, having sex with someone else’s sister (as nice an experience as it may be for the latter) just isn’t going to cut it for me.

Yes, but you can have sex with some other woman, even if it's a little disappointing. A gay person has three choices- celibacy, castration, or hell.

That’s stupid.  Homosexuals *can* have sex with people of the opposite sex, “even if it’s a little disappointing”.

No, they can't. They can have a sham of a marriage where sex is a begrudging duty, but that hardly sounds like a humane (or, ironically, natural) situation. Would you want to marry a woman who had no desire for you?

Or more to the point if we really want to flip the script, a man?
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 10:42:56 PM by Volnutt »
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2018, 10:59:17 PM »
The difference is that incest, affairs, etc. at least have alternatives...

How so?  If I want to have sex with my sister, having sex with someone else’s sister (as nice an experience as it may be for the latter) just isn’t going to cut it for me.

Yes, but you can have sex with some other woman, even if it's a little disappointing. A gay person has three choices- celibacy, castration, or hell.

That’s stupid.  Homosexuals *can* have sex with people of the opposite sex, “even if it’s a little disappointing”.

No, they can't. They can have a sham of a marriage where sex is a begrudging duty, but that hardly sounds like a humane (or, ironically, natural) situation. Would you want to marry a woman who had no desire for you?

Or more to the point if we really want to flip the script, a man?

Yes they can, just like men can choose not to masterbate, or smoke ciggerate, there is choices in life, unless your still thinking everything is predestined, and there no free will.

Ohh those poor masterbaters,  they have to live a chaste life,  Ohh no, let's change church doctrine to appease the masterbaters on OC.net
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 11:00:28 PM by seekeroftruth777 »

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2018, 11:05:38 PM »
The difference is that incest, affairs, etc. at least have alternatives...

How so?  If I want to have sex with my sister, having sex with someone else’s sister (as nice an experience as it may be for the latter) just isn’t going to cut it for me.

Yes, but you can have sex with some other woman, even if it's a little disappointing. A gay person has three choices- celibacy, castration, or hell.

That’s stupid.  Homosexuals *can* have sex with people of the opposite sex, “even if it’s a little disappointing”.

No, they can't.

Are their penises incapable of heterosexual intercourse?  Are vaginas bigoted against them?

Quote
They can have a sham of a marriage where sex is a begrudging duty, but that hardly sounds like a humane (or, ironically, natural) situation. Would you want to marry a woman who had no desire for you?

Or more to the point if we really want to flip the script, a man?

Speaking of flipping scripts, we were talking about sex, and then when I took your argument and ran with it, now you want to talk about marriage.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #57 on: June 13, 2018, 11:08:08 PM »
Ohh those poor masterbaters,  they have to live a chaste life,  Ohh no, let's change church doctrine to appease the masterbaters on OC.net

No one changes Church doctrine to scratch that itch.  We just scratch.

Offline Brilko

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #58 on: June 13, 2018, 11:18:04 PM »
If celibacy really were available to all, then I would think that God would have commanded it.

Now, if you want to argue that everybody who is gay somehow also has the gift to balance it out, then fine. But common experience would seem to be against you.

A command to universal celibacy would have put a major crimp in the command to be fruitful and multiply.

I’ve never really thought of celibacy as a gift. My sinful self often wishes the Lord hadn’t blessed me so hard. Throw the gift on top of the blessings. Maybe I’ll slide through the judgement by dint of my gifts and blessings.

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #59 on: June 13, 2018, 11:21:10 PM »
Ohh those poor masterbaters,  they have to live a chaste life,  Ohh no, let's change church doctrine to appease the masterbaters on OC.net

No one changes Church doctrine to scratch that itch.  We just scratch.

If you  got a itch, see a clinic, Rachel must have something 😂
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 11:22:06 PM by seekeroftruth777 »

Offline Rubricnigel

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #60 on: June 13, 2018, 11:29:26 PM »

Offline seekeroftruth777

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #61 on: June 13, 2018, 11:33:48 PM »
http://www.psypost.org/2017/06/straight-mens-physiological-stress-response-seeing-two-men-kissing-seeing-maggots-49217

Ill listen to my gut. Its unnatural, and sterile hence its against god

true story, the chanter at our Church, very liberal guy, even admited,  he gets disgusted seeing affection between two guys.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #62 on: June 13, 2018, 11:39:30 PM »
The difference is that incest, affairs, etc. at least have alternatives...

How so?  If I want to have sex with my sister, having sex with someone else’s sister (as nice an experience as it may be for the latter) just isn’t going to cut it for me.

Yes, but you can have sex with some other woman, even if it's a little disappointing. A gay person has three choices- celibacy, castration, or hell.

That’s stupid.  Homosexuals *can* have sex with people of the opposite sex, “even if it’s a little disappointing”.

No, they can't.

Are their penises incapable of heterosexual intercourse?  Are vaginas bigoted against them?

I dunno, are they even capable of erections?

And I thought the Christian bead on sex was that it should be about more than just meat slapping against meat.

Quote
They can have a sham of a marriage where sex is a begrudging duty, but that hardly sounds like a humane (or, ironically, natural) situation. Would you want to marry a woman who had no desire for you?

Or more to the point if we really want to flip the script, a man?

Speaking of flipping scripts, we were talking about sex, and then when I took your argument and ran with it, now you want to talk about marriage.

I'm talking about both as related components of one another. I don't advocate extramarital sex for anybody.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 11:45:43 PM by Volnutt »
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #63 on: June 13, 2018, 11:41:44 PM »
http://www.psypost.org/2017/06/straight-mens-physiological-stress-response-seeing-two-men-kissing-seeing-maggots-49217

Ill listen to my gut. Its unnatural, and sterile hence its against god

"Wisdom of disgust" arguments don't really prove anything. I'm sure that some people are disgusted by interracial marriage. too.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #64 on: June 13, 2018, 11:43:05 PM »
The difference is that incest, affairs, etc. at least have alternatives...

How so?  If I want to have sex with my sister, having sex with someone else’s sister (as nice an experience as it may be for the latter) just isn’t going to cut it for me.

Yes, but you can have sex with some other woman, even if it's a little disappointing. A gay person has three choices- celibacy, castration, or hell.

That’s stupid.  Homosexuals *can* have sex with people of the opposite sex, “even if it’s a little disappointing”.

No, they can't. They can have a sham of a marriage where sex is a begrudging duty, but that hardly sounds like a humane (or, ironically, natural) situation. Would you want to marry a woman who had no desire for you?

Or more to the point if we really want to flip the script, a man?

Yes they can, just like men can choose not to masterbate, or smoke ciggerate, there is choices in life, unless your still thinking everything is predestined, and there no free will.

Like I said to Julio, it doesn't seem like Paul agrees with you.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #65 on: June 13, 2018, 11:47:06 PM »
If celibacy really were available to all, then I would think that God would have commanded it.

Now, if you want to argue that everybody who is gay somehow also has the gift to balance it out, then fine. But common experience would seem to be against you.

A command to universal celibacy would have put a major crimp in the command to be fruitful and multiply.

Is that a command for everybody or just for Adam and Eve? Paul did at least say that he wished everybody was like him.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #66 on: June 14, 2018, 12:36:27 AM »
The difference is that incest, affairs, etc. at least have alternatives...

How so?  If I want to have sex with my sister, having sex with someone else’s sister (as nice an experience as it may be for the latter) just isn’t going to cut it for me.

Yes, but you can have sex with some other woman, even if it's a little disappointing. A gay person has three choices- celibacy, castration, or hell.

That’s stupid.  Homosexuals *can* have sex with people of the opposite sex, “even if it’s a little disappointing”.

No, they can't.

Are their penises incapable of heterosexual intercourse?  Are vaginas bigoted against them?

I dunno, are they even capable of erections?

I've never cared to study this issue.  Go ask some men about their erections and report back to us.   

Quote
And I thought the Christian bead on sex was that it should be about more than just meat slapping against meat.

It is more than that, which makes me wonder why you'd suggest that heterosexuals "have alternatives".  "Having alternatives" = "meat slapping against meat". 

Quote
I'm talking about both as related components of one another. I don't advocate extramarital sex for anybody.

Why not?

Offline Brilko

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #67 on: June 14, 2018, 02:20:35 AM »
If celibacy really were available to all, then I would think that God would have commanded it.

Now, if you want to argue that everybody who is gay somehow also has the gift to balance it out, then fine. But common experience would seem to be against you.

A command to universal celibacy would have put a major crimp in the command to be fruitful and multiply.

Is that a command for everybody or just for Adam and Eve? Paul did at least say that he wished everybody was like him.

It’s a general, rather than universal command, but would be impossible if everyone were celibate. If wishes were fishes....

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #68 on: June 14, 2018, 07:06:00 AM »
The difference is that incest, affairs, etc. at least have alternatives...

How so?  If I want to have sex with my sister, having sex with someone else’s sister (as nice an experience as it may be for the latter) just isn’t going to cut it for me.

Yes, but you can have sex with some other woman, even if it's a little disappointing. A gay person has three choices- celibacy, castration, or hell.

That’s stupid.  Homosexuals *can* have sex with people of the opposite sex, “even if it’s a little disappointing”.

No, they can't.

Are their penises incapable of heterosexual intercourse?  Are vaginas bigoted against them?

I dunno, are they even capable of erections?

I've never cared to study this issue.  Go ask some men about their erections and report back to us.

I'm not the one suggesting that gay men should just up and marry a woman (and I guess magically become straight?). Burden of proof's on you. While you're at, run this plan by a few gay guys (and perspective beard-wives) and see what reactions you get.

Quote
And I thought the Christian bead on sex was that it should be about more than just meat slapping against meat.

It is more than that, which makes me wonder why you'd suggest that heterosexuals "have alternatives".  "Having alternatives" = "meat slapping against meat".

How many people do you know of that are attracted only to their siblings? By "alternative," I mean "an option for a life that isn't either forced celibacy or castration." As far as I can tell the only group, other than homosexuals in the Church, that are faced with a dilemma like this are exclusive pedophiles and people with really rare paraphilias (regrettable necessities in their cases). I'd rather make darn sure that it's absolutely necessary before condemning someone to a fate like that against their will.

Quote
I'm talking about both as related components of one another. I don't advocate extramarital sex for anybody.

Why not?

Because there's more to life than just getting your rocks off. Stable families and marriages are good.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #69 on: June 14, 2018, 08:27:55 AM »
Alas! He is going further back to his Episcopalian roots.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #70 on: June 14, 2018, 08:30:38 AM »
Critiques of the Orthodox approach to homosexuality and other issues never come right out and say it. That's too bold, and would never catch. Instead, they take an approach that becomes very easy to pick up on.

1. Acknowledge the teaching of the Church, explicitly or implicitly.

2. Implicitly accuse what has always been the Church's pastoral approach to same-sex relations and other such sins as being wrong.

3. Ask a bunch of loaded questions. Do not answer them. There's no need, because the intended audience already has in their heads.

4. Lead everyone to the conclusion that x (in this case, a committed same-sex relationship) is OK, because y (same-sex promiscuity) is "worse" (somehow).
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Offline recent convert

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #71 on: June 14, 2018, 10:16:18 AM »
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/orthodoxyandheterodoxy/2018/06/13/the-church-and-homosexuality-a-meditation/

The above link is from Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy within the ancient faith ministry website. I saw an Orthodox lady post it in another forum.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 10:17:34 AM by recent convert »
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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #72 on: June 14, 2018, 10:39:43 AM »
The difference is that incest, affairs, etc. at least have alternatives...

How so?  If I want to have sex with my sister, having sex with someone else’s sister (as nice an experience as it may be for the latter) just isn’t going to cut it for me.

Yes, but you can have sex with some other woman, even if it's a little disappointing. A gay person has three choices- celibacy, castration, or hell.

Thats if you believe that they were born that way, which i dont and many others agree with. Like most sins they are taught and how many men that have had a same sex affair turned straight and stayed straight.
   The problem is, if the church caves to homosexuals, then it must do so for every other degenerate mental disorder. So mext year we'll have the same discussion about men who've chopped off their "digit", then the next year incest, the next beastiality. Its just a slight shifting of the overton window over and over till the church is destroyed.
    I believe people can change, it takes awhile but its possible. We cant give in to societal changes, bend to the church not, bend the church to you.
   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbGS6jb4WfI

Good 10 min video from a catholic about how the homosexual movement is a tool.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 10:41:20 AM by Rubricnigel »

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #73 on: June 14, 2018, 10:57:21 AM »
Quote
I don't advocate extramarital sex for anybody.


Well, that's the key, there is no such thing as homossexual ''marriage'', a marriage is exclusively between man and woman, that's what generates offspring.

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #74 on: June 14, 2018, 12:08:13 PM »
http://www.psypost.org/2017/06/straight-mens-physiological-stress-response-seeing-two-men-kissing-seeing-maggots-49217

Ill listen to my gut. Its unnatural, and sterile hence its against god

"Wisdom of disgust" arguments don't really prove anything. I'm sure that some people are disgusted by interracial marriage. too.

Ahhh there you again, conflating someone with skin color they can not change, born that way, with fallen people, who have the free will to chose it not chose to have sexual intercourse, or marry someone of the same sex, God made them in the flesh, yet they define that image the same way straight people do with inappropriate serious sinful acts, they need to repent, and become Orthodox. Sorry the Church will not defile the sacrament of marriage to appease the LGBT activists,  some in the laity, and some on this website, there never been a thing called "Gay Marriage", so called Gay Marriage will bring about the destruction of modern civilization.

I can't say this enough, we must conform to the Church, and repent, confess our sins, go to the services, partake in the Eucharist, we should not think the Church needs to conform to our wants, and needs.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 12:09:59 PM by seekeroftruth777 »

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #76 on: June 14, 2018, 12:12:16 PM »
I dislike the Metropolitan's implication that the Church is in contradiction in serving a man constantly falling into casual homosexuality and repenting while denying the mysteries to a man in a stable homosexual relationship. The latter is living in sin, while the former is actively battling it, and even if he's cyclically falling, he's also cyclically coming up again.

To take this problem out of the homosexuality subject, compare a single straight man who sometimes fall into fornication (although trying to stay a way from it) to someone in a pre-marital relationship with sex as a habit. I believe other posters here, as myself, may have seen themselves on both sides. While a single man may repent from fornication without being infallible in preventing it to happen again, one should never approach the Eucharist having plans to fornicate again and again after it due to being in a relationship that agrees to this sin habitually.

Why should it be different with homosexuals? Unless one is advocating that homosexual marriage should be a thing...
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 12:18:49 PM by RaphaCam »
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Offline Rubricnigel

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #77 on: June 14, 2018, 12:39:38 PM »
http://www.psypost.org/2017/06/straight-mens-physiological-stress-response-seeing-two-men-kissing-seeing-maggots-49217

Ill listen to my gut. Its unnatural, and sterile hence its against god

"Wisdom of disgust" arguments don't really prove anything. I'm sure that some people are disgusted by interracial marriage. too.

Ahhh there you again, conflating someone with skin color they can not change, born that way, with fallen people, who have the free will to chose it not chose to have sexual intercourse, or marry someone of the same sex, God made them in the flesh, yet they define that image the same way straight people do with inappropriate serious sinful acts, they need to repent, and become Orthodox. Sorry the Church will not defile the sacrament of marriage to appease the LGBT activists,  some in the laity, and some on this website, there never been a thing called "Gay Marriage", so called Gay Marriage will bring about the destruction of modern civilization.

I can't say this enough, we must conform to the Church, and repent, confess our sins, go to the services, partake in the Eucharist, we should not think the Church needs to conform to our wants, and needs.

Thats the point. One is natural (skin color, height, eye color) while one isnt. Every time this comes up, its always the same, " they were born like that, its natural".
    Its not natural, sure maybe their desires are very strong but so are other desires which are sins. I never see someone say a habitual thief is just acting naturally so its ok, or someone who has pedophilia urges to act since its only natural.
    If you give them an inch they wont stop, as we've seen with the gay agenda since the 80's. They got acceptance in popular culutre, they have the right to marry, so what do they do? They push transgender rights, non gender conformity ideals and now openly target the next generation with pure propaganda. We messed up allowing gays to have any legal rights, and it shows by what they're pushing now. I know ill get lambasted but, whats next? Pedophile rights, incest, beastiality? 30 years ago you'd laugh if i said laws were enacted to let men use the womens bathroom/locker rooms or men competing as women in state sponsored sports activities.
     They never stop, and neither should we. America is the new Sodom and Gomorrah

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #78 on: June 14, 2018, 04:44:33 PM »
http://www.psypost.org/2017/06/straight-mens-physiological-stress-response-seeing-two-men-kissing-seeing-maggots-49217

Ill listen to my gut. Its unnatural, and sterile hence its against god

true story, the chanter at our Church, very liberal guy, even admited,  he gets disgusted seeing affection between two guys.

And your point?
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist


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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #79 on: June 14, 2018, 04:48:59 PM »
http://www.psypost.org/2017/06/straight-mens-physiological-stress-response-seeing-two-men-kissing-seeing-maggots-49217

Ill listen to my gut. Its unnatural, and sterile hence its against god

I'm sterile. I can't have children, because I have ovarian cysts. I'm a heterosexual woman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mammals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

Also, male silverback apes have been observed having sex with younger males. Sex is not just for reproduction. It also enforces pack social order.

 
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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #80 on: June 14, 2018, 04:49:52 PM »
http://www.psypost.org/2017/06/straight-mens-physiological-stress-response-seeing-two-men-kissing-seeing-maggots-49217

Ill listen to my gut. Its unnatural, and sterile hence its against god

true story, the chanter at our Church, very liberal guy, even admited,  he gets disgusted seeing affection between two guys.

And your point?
latent  homosexuality?
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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #81 on: June 14, 2018, 04:51:58 PM »
Also, male silverback apes have been observed having sex with younger males. Sex is not just for reproduction. It also enforces pack social order. 

I'm not sure that using nature's equivalent of prison rape as an example is exactly going to help.
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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #82 on: June 14, 2018, 04:57:30 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mammals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

Also, male silverback apes have been observed having sex with younger males. Sex is not just for reproduction. It also enforces pack social order.

I have always thought an appeal to the animal kingdom is the wrong way to go. Same-sex stuff happens in the animal kingdom, but AFAIK the love-lust inclination of humans is unique to our image bearing.

Gays are not gorillas. They are humans. Their feelings and experiences are far and away different than those of animals.
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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #83 on: June 14, 2018, 05:08:46 PM »
Also, male silverback apes have been observed having sex with younger males. Sex is not just for reproduction. It also enforces pack social order. 

I'm not sure that using nature's equivalent of prison rape as an example is exactly going to help.

Please explain how that is rape.

Until recently, no one would admit it even happens.

These are lower animals. Supposedly, they don't even have will.  ::)
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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #84 on: June 14, 2018, 05:27:36 PM »
Also, male silverback apes have been observed having sex with younger males. Sex is not just for reproduction. It also enforces pack social order. 

I'm not sure that using nature's equivalent of prison rape as an example is exactly going to help.

Please explain how that is rape.

Until recently, no one would admit it even happens.

These are lower animals. Supposedly, they don't even have will.  ::)

Maybe pedophilia, then.

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #85 on: June 14, 2018, 06:17:02 PM »
Quote
I don't advocate extramarital sex for anybody.

Well, that's the key, there is no such thing as homossexual ''marriage'', a marriage is exclusively between man and woman,

Is that so? How do you figure?

that's what generates offspring.

So, infertility should come with a mandatory "do not marry" tag even for straight people?
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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #86 on: June 14, 2018, 06:19:13 PM »
http://www.psypost.org/2017/06/straight-mens-physiological-stress-response-seeing-two-men-kissing-seeing-maggots-49217

Ill listen to my gut. Its unnatural, and sterile hence its against god

"Wisdom of disgust" arguments don't really prove anything. I'm sure that some people are disgusted by interracial marriage. too.

Ahhh there you again, conflating someone with skin color they can not change, born that way, with fallen people, who have the free will to chose it not chose to have sexual intercourse, or marry someone of the same sex,

Do they have the free will to? Are all gay people really gifted for celibacy? I don't see that in evidence.
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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #87 on: June 14, 2018, 06:24:28 PM »
http://www.psypost.org/2017/06/straight-mens-physiological-stress-response-seeing-two-men-kissing-seeing-maggots-49217

Ill listen to my gut. Its unnatural, and sterile hence its against god

"Wisdom of disgust" arguments don't really prove anything. I'm sure that some people are disgusted by interracial marriage. too.

Ahhh there you again, conflating someone with skin color they can not change, born that way, with fallen people, who have the free will to chose it not chose to have sexual intercourse, or marry someone of the same sex,

Do they have the free will to?

Amazing...in an effort to defend homosexual persons and their dignity, you debase and dehumanize them in a way that goes beyond anything anyone else in this discussion has dared to suggest.

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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #88 on: June 14, 2018, 06:24:38 PM »
The difference is that incest, affairs, etc. at least have alternatives...

How so?  If I want to have sex with my sister, having sex with someone else’s sister (as nice an experience as it may be for the latter) just isn’t going to cut it for me.

Yes, but you can have sex with some other woman, even if it's a little disappointing. A gay person has three choices- celibacy, castration, or hell.

Thats if you believe that they were born that way, which i dont and many others agree with. Like most sins they are taught and how many men that have had a same sex affair turned straight and stayed straight.

Oh cool. More pseduoscience from the antivaxxer. Give me a second to realign my chakras before you start.

The problem is, if the church caves to homosexuals, then it must do so for every other degenerate mental disorder. So mext year we'll have the same discussion about men who've chopped off their "digit", then the next year incest, the next beastiality. Its just a slight shifting of the overton window over and over till the church is destroyed.

The slippery slope is a logical fallacy unless you can show that one thing really will lead to another.

Just like people in this thread keep putting scare quotes around gay marriage in the hope that it sticks, you just saying that it's a mental disorder doesn't make it so.
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Re: Met. Kallistos Ware on Homosexual Marriage
« Reply #89 on: June 14, 2018, 06:28:18 PM »
http://www.psypost.org/2017/06/straight-mens-physiological-stress-response-seeing-two-men-kissing-seeing-maggots-49217

Ill listen to my gut. Its unnatural, and sterile hence its against god

"Wisdom of disgust" arguments don't really prove anything. I'm sure that some people are disgusted by interracial marriage. too.

Ahhh there you again, conflating someone with skin color they can not change, born that way, with fallen people, who have the free will to chose it not chose to have sexual intercourse, or marry someone of the same sex,

Do they have the free will to?

Amazing...in an effort to defend homosexual persons and their dignity, you debase and dehumanize them in a way that goes beyond anything anyone else in this discussion has dared to suggest.

It's not dehumanizing if it's a problem common to most of humanity. Do you have the ability to just will yourself into celibacy without "burning with passion?" It seems to me that it's a gift from God that not everybody, gay or straight, is given.

I mean, yes, they can just not have sex for the rest of their lives. But it wouldn't be good for them or very successful (or humane to force on them with threats of Hell), much like it probably wouldn't be for you if you became a monk or something.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 06:29:09 PM by Volnutt »
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