Author Topic: Historical Adam and Eve?  (Read 4465 times)

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Offline Ainnir

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #90 on: August 24, 2018, 11:26:17 PM »
And everyone in general, if we feel an individual should not be dragging a third party into an argument, please don't quote said dragging of said person, along with their contact information, multiple times.  Thanks.  --Ainnir
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 11:31:39 PM by Ainnir »
Is any of the above Orthodox?  I have no idea, so there’s that.

Offline biro

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #91 on: August 24, 2018, 11:28:56 PM »
Not true.

 ???

If you feel so strongly about it, here is my Metropolitan, you call him and tell him.

The Metropolitan is the first person listed. He also has e-mail.

link removed
Don't you dare drag Metropolitan Alexios through OCnet with your personal beliefs.

I asked him, not you.

Sure you did.

Of course I did. I wasn't addressing you at all.

Somehow, I'm still on "Ignore".

I told you, I DO NOT ADVOCATE INCEST.

Again, I was not talking about you.

Stop yelling, I never said you were one of those people.

Learn to go back and read that thread, so you can see about whom I was talking.

Stop yelling.

Do you not really comprehend? Please go back and read.

I am very rational right now, meanwhile you are not in control of your emotions.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist/works Warning: stories have mature content.

"Some people only feel good when they are praising the Lord." - Coptic bishop

Show me the meaning of the word

Leave me alone, I was only singing

"You know, I don't know any writer who doesn't hate writing, so I guess what I'm saying is, I hate my life." - Lawrence O'Donnell

"I like fake violence and real peace." - John Fugelsang

Offline PorphyriosK

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #92 on: August 24, 2018, 11:30:06 PM »
Not true.

 ???

If you feel so strongly about it, here is my Metropolitan, you call him and tell him.

The Metropolitan is the first person listed. He also has e-mail.

Edited to add - I don't live in Atlanta, I live in Florida. He's the Met. over several states.

link removed

Huh??

You called me a heretic.

That is a very serious thing to say. Don't chicken out now.

Stand up for what you said.

Call the Metropolitan or write to him.

Surely, if I am really a heretic, as you said, he would care, and he would do something?

Or are you just a keyboard fighter?

Whoah, take it easy! 

I didn't call you a heretic.  You made a statement that the Church throughout the ages would consider heretical and I was just letting you know that.  That's all.  Are you okay?  Or am I the one getting trolled right now?
« Last Edit: August 24, 2018, 11:31:57 PM by Ainnir »

Offline hecma925

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #93 on: August 24, 2018, 11:33:10 PM »
Not true.

 ???

If you feel so strongly about it, here is my Metropolitan, you call him and tell him.

The Metropolitan is the first person listed. He also has e-mail.

link removed
Don't you dare drag Metropolitan Alexios through OCnet with your personal beliefs.

I asked him, not you.

Sure you did.

Of course I did. I wasn't addressing you at all.

Somehow, I'm still on "Ignore".

I told you, I DO NOT ADVOCATE INCEST.

Again, I was not talking about you.

Stop yelling, I never said you were one of those people.

Learn to go back and read that thread, so you can see about whom I was talking.

Stop yelling.

Do you not really comprehend? Please go back and read.

I am very rational right now, meanwhile you are not in control of your emotions.

Learn to go back and read that thread, so you can see about whom I was talking.

Do you not really comprehend? Please go back and read.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline biro

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #94 on: August 24, 2018, 11:35:20 PM »
You said I said something heretical.

It is not possible to say something heretical and not be a heretic.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/heretical
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist/works Warning: stories have mature content.

"Some people only feel good when they are praising the Lord." - Coptic bishop

Show me the meaning of the word

Leave me alone, I was only singing

"You know, I don't know any writer who doesn't hate writing, so I guess what I'm saying is, I hate my life." - Lawrence O'Donnell

"I like fake violence and real peace." - John Fugelsang

Offline biro

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #95 on: August 24, 2018, 11:37:18 PM »
Not true.

 ???

If you feel so strongly about it, here is my Metropolitan, you call him and tell him.

The Metropolitan is the first person listed. He also has e-mail.

link removed
Don't you dare drag Metropolitan Alexios through OCnet with your personal beliefs.

I asked him, not you.

Sure you did.

Of course I did. I wasn't addressing you at all.

Somehow, I'm still on "Ignore".

I told you, I DO NOT ADVOCATE INCEST.

Again, I was not talking about you.

Stop yelling, I never said you were one of those people.

Learn to go back and read that thread, so you can see about whom I was talking.

Stop yelling.

Do you not really comprehend? Please go back and read.

I am very rational right now, meanwhile you are not in control of your emotions.

Learn to go back and read that thread, so you can see about whom I was talking.

Do you not really comprehend? Please go back and read.

Not only do you repeat your silly pattern of repeating what I just said, as if this is grade school, but you didn't read it, and you still don't know whom I meant.

I am just not going to respond to you anymore, as much as possible.

I did not accuse you of committing incest or of advocating it. Go running around in circles if you want.

You're only yelling at yourself.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist/works Warning: stories have mature content.

"Some people only feel good when they are praising the Lord." - Coptic bishop

Show me the meaning of the word

Leave me alone, I was only singing

"You know, I don't know any writer who doesn't hate writing, so I guess what I'm saying is, I hate my life." - Lawrence O'Donnell

"I like fake violence and real peace." - John Fugelsang

Offline hecma925

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #96 on: August 24, 2018, 11:40:39 PM »
Not true.

 ???

If you feel so strongly about it, here is my Metropolitan, you call him and tell him.

The Metropolitan is the first person listed. He also has e-mail.

link removed
Don't you dare drag Metropolitan Alexios through OCnet with your personal beliefs.

I asked him, not you.

Sure you did.

Of course I did. I wasn't addressing you at all.

Somehow, I'm still on "Ignore".

I told you, I DO NOT ADVOCATE INCEST.

Again, I was not talking about you.

Stop yelling, I never said you were one of those people.

Learn to go back and read that thread, so you can see about whom I was talking.

Stop yelling.

Do you not really comprehend? Please go back and read.

I am very rational right now, meanwhile you are not in control of your emotions.

Learn to go back and read that thread, so you can see about whom I was talking.

Do you not really comprehend? Please go back and read.

Not only do you repeat your silly pattern of repeating what I just said, as if this is grade school, but you didn't read it, and you still don't know whom I meant.

I am just not going to respond to you anymore, as much as possible.

I did not accuse you of committing incest or of advocating it. Go running around in circles if you want.

You're only yelling at yourself.

Good thing I have you on Ignore, and don't have to read your posts unless I click the little line.

You can just chase yourself.

Stop clicking on the little line.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline PorphyriosK

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #97 on: August 24, 2018, 11:42:03 PM »
You said I said something heretical.

It is not possible to say something heretical and not be a heretic.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/heretical

A heretic is someone who knowingly and maliciously embraces or remains in heresy, whereas anyone can say something heretical without being fully aware of it.  I was just making you aware, that's all.  That was my intention anyway.

Offline biro

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #98 on: August 24, 2018, 11:42:25 PM »
You said I said something heretical.

It is not possible to say something heretical and not be a heretic.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/heretical

A heretic is someone who knowingly and maliciously embraces or remains in heresy, whereas anyone can say something heretical without being fully aware of it.  I was just making you aware, that's all.  That was my intention anyway.

Please stop.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist/works Warning: stories have mature content.

"Some people only feel good when they are praising the Lord." - Coptic bishop

Show me the meaning of the word

Leave me alone, I was only singing

"You know, I don't know any writer who doesn't hate writing, so I guess what I'm saying is, I hate my life." - Lawrence O'Donnell

"I like fake violence and real peace." - John Fugelsang

Offline PorphyriosK

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #99 on: August 24, 2018, 11:45:00 PM »
You said I said something heretical.

It is not possible to say something heretical and not be a heretic.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/heretical

A heretic is someone who knowingly and maliciously embraces or remains in heresy, whereas anyone can say something heretical without being fully aware of it.  I was just making you aware, that's all.  That was my intention anyway.

Please stop.

I will, I'm stopping right now.  I apologize for upsetting you.  Have a good night.

Offline biro

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #100 on: August 24, 2018, 11:46:11 PM »
You said I said something heretical.

It is not possible to say something heretical and not be a heretic.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/heretical

A heretic is someone who knowingly and maliciously embraces or remains in heresy, whereas anyone can say something heretical without being fully aware of it.  I was just making you aware, that's all.  That was my intention anyway.

Please stop.

I will, I'm stopping right now.  I apologize for upsetting you.  Have a good night.

Thank you, I appreciate that.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist/works Warning: stories have mature content.

"Some people only feel good when they are praising the Lord." - Coptic bishop

Show me the meaning of the word

Leave me alone, I was only singing

"You know, I don't know any writer who doesn't hate writing, so I guess what I'm saying is, I hate my life." - Lawrence O'Donnell

"I like fake violence and real peace." - John Fugelsang

Offline PorphyriosK

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #101 on: August 24, 2018, 11:51:55 PM »
You said I said something heretical.

It is not possible to say something heretical and not be a heretic.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/heretical

A heretic is someone who knowingly and maliciously embraces or remains in heresy, whereas anyone can say something heretical without being fully aware of it.  I was just making you aware, that's all.  That was my intention anyway.

Please stop.

I will, I'm stopping right now.  I apologize for upsetting you.  Have a good night.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

No worries.

Offline Agabus

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #102 on: August 25, 2018, 10:25:32 AM »
Not true.

 ???

If you feel so strongly about it, here is my Metropolitan, you call him and tell him.

The Metropolitan is the first person listed. He also has e-mail.

link removed
Don't you dare drag Metropolitan Alexios through OCnet with your personal beliefs.

I asked him, not you.

Sure you did.

Of course I did. I wasn't addressing you at all.

Somehow, I'm still on "Ignore".

I told you, I DO NOT ADVOCATE INCEST.

Again, I was not talking about you.

Stop yelling, I never said you were one of those people.

Learn to go back and read that thread, so you can see about whom I was talking.

Stop yelling.

Do you not really comprehend? Please go back and read.

I am very rational right now, meanwhile you are not in control of your emotions.

Maybe you should go back and read that thread. Literally no one said they were pro-incest or advocated for it. A few folks said it was a reality in the far distant ancient world, and happened more than once in the Bible (though in the case of Cain it's extrapolated rather than explicit).

Acknowledging such things are not the same as endorsement.

Gosh, a one-off joke of an OP title has resulted in some terrible reading without comprehension.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Take a breath, read Ecclesiastes 1:9.

Offline biro

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #103 on: August 25, 2018, 10:37:13 AM »
They said it was okay back then.

Why did they do that, if it's not okay today?

"The Lord works in mysterious ways" is not a response.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist/works Warning: stories have mature content.

"Some people only feel good when they are praising the Lord." - Coptic bishop

Show me the meaning of the word

Leave me alone, I was only singing

"You know, I don't know any writer who doesn't hate writing, so I guess what I'm saying is, I hate my life." - Lawrence O'Donnell

"I like fake violence and real peace." - John Fugelsang

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #104 on: August 25, 2018, 10:59:47 AM »
I'm at home because I have multiple sclerosis. What's your excuse?

Going to try another childish comparison to something else I said?

Adam and Eve did not exist. If you can't deal with it, fine.

Aaaand here comes hecma925, to save his buddy.

There might be some wiggle room in one's reading of Genesis (like maybe that they were our spiritual ancestors, predecessors in sin, etc. without literally being all our biological parents), but I'm not sure it's possible to say that Adam and Eve straight up did not exist (I know there are some Protestant's who claim that, but I really don't see how it would work in Orthodoxy for the most part).

Which Protestants?

Going off memory, it's more individuals than groups. Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time coming up with the goods I remember, my Google Force fails me. The author John Walton is kind of coy about it, as I recall, but tends to side with a historical Adam and Eve. RJS from the blog Jesuscreed seems to be kind of agnostic about them.

I doubt I'd find someone who just up and says they weren't historical who's to the right of Marcus Borg, though.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 11:00:55 AM by Volnutt »
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #105 on: August 25, 2018, 11:04:40 AM »
They said it was okay back then.

Why did they do that, if it's not okay today?

Because God didn't leave them a choice? Because they didn't know any better? Because even though they were Saints (not Cain, but Abraham, et al.) they still did bad things that we are not to emulate?

It's a theodicy problem, maybe (which is what I was referring to in my initial question to Agabus along these lines), but it need not be one of historical fact.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 11:06:45 AM by Volnutt »
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.

Offline Agabus

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #106 on: August 25, 2018, 11:14:31 AM »
They said it was okay back then.

Why did they do that, if it's not okay today?

"The Lord works in mysterious ways" is not a response.

As deeply uncomfortable as it makes us, our neolithic ancestors (be they historical Seth or Cain or Caveman Ooog) did things that we would never do today. In terms of Judeo-Christian revelation, God didn't even address the issue until after the Egyptian exodus, at which time he explicitly forbade it. We know better, so we do better.
Blessed Nazarius practiced the ascetic life. His clothes were tattered. He wore his shoes without removing them for six years.

THE OPINIONS HERE MAY NOT REFLECT THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED ORTHODOX CHURCH

Take a breath, read Ecclesiastes 1:9.

Online Mor Ephrem

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #107 on: August 25, 2018, 01:28:00 PM »
They said it was okay back then.

Why did they do that, if it's not okay today?

"The Lord works in mysterious ways" is not a response.

It’s not, but it may be the only response you are in any condition to hear.  Other responses may just cause you more harm than good if you’re not able to interact with them appropriately.
~O' Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, for the sake the prayers of Thy pure mother and all the saints, have mercy on us.~


~ You prepare in THIS life , the circumstances in your next life ~

Since when has a Hierarch done anything for you? . . .

Offline biro

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #108 on: August 25, 2018, 01:44:34 PM »
They said it was okay back then.

Why did they do that, if it's not okay today?

Because God didn't leave them a choice? Because they didn't know any better? Because even though they were Saints (not Cain, but Abraham, et al.) they still did bad things that we are not to emulate?

It's a theodicy problem, maybe (which is what I was referring to in my initial question to Agabus along these lines), but it need not be one of historical fact.

Okay, thank you.
https://archiveofourown.org/users/Parakeetist/works Warning: stories have mature content.

"Some people only feel good when they are praising the Lord." - Coptic bishop

Show me the meaning of the word

Leave me alone, I was only singing

"You know, I don't know any writer who doesn't hate writing, so I guess what I'm saying is, I hate my life." - Lawrence O'Donnell

"I like fake violence and real peace." - John Fugelsang

Offline WPM

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Re: Historical Adam and Eve?
« Reply #109 on: August 25, 2018, 02:11:55 PM »
The first biblical Ancestors.
Vouchsafe, O' Lord, to keep us this evening without sin. Blessed art thou, O' Lord, the God of our fathers, and praised and glorified is Thy name unto the ages. Amen